Need Help With Lease Problem

[JimTripper]

My lease expires in less then a month. I contacted both the landlord and the real estate agent and expressed by desire to renew.

 

The landlord told me privately that she would prefer that I tell the real estate agent that I moved out so she did not have to pay their fee for a new lease renewal, and that I just keep paying rent as usual and could remain in the unit.

 

I'm worried about getting the deposit back at some point if I'm not on a lease and the real estate agent is out of the picture. It also feels weird to not have a lease. I have never met the landlord and only send line messages. It's just a line contact the juristic person here gave me. Also, I paid the deposit in cash to the real estate agent initially.

 

The agent is trying to do a lease renewal but the landlord has not signed off and I'm running out of time to find a new condo. It's also unclear if the lease expires or if it self-renews. It says to give 30 days notice to move out, but also says contact the agent to renew.

 

Should I just move out if the lease is not signed by the expiration date or stay and keep paying rent?

[Celsius]

If landlords is so cheap to screw the agent, I expect you will not be getting your deposit back if you move out now.

[JimTripper]

11 minutes ago, Celsius said:

If landlords is so cheap to screw the agent, I expect you will not be getting your deposit back if you move out now.

There might be a problem between the agent and the landlord. Initially, I just communicated through the agent.

 

Then the juristic person here contacted me and wanted my Line or phone number for the owner. He said, the owner communicated to him that the agent would not answer their messages. So I got caught in a triangle of sorts.

 

That's about the last thing I want to do in Thailand with someone holding my deposit (30k).

[dddave]

Most landlords have to pay an ongoing share of the rent to the agent so your landlord is likely trying to duck that monthly payment.

You would have to depend on the landlord for the documents needed for your TM-30, not easy without a copy of the lease.

When my condo owner started renting to me directly after my original lease expired, we still paid another agent to draw up a legal lease so I would have the document.   The original agent wasn't happy but couldn't do anything about it.  She had lied to him about the original rent I was paying and pocketing the difference.

[JimTripper]

10 minutes ago, dddave said:

Most landlords have to pay an ongoing share of the rent to the agent so your landlord is likely trying to duck that monthly payment.

You would have to depend on the landlord for the documents needed for your TM-30, not easy without a copy of the lease.

When my condo owner started renting to me directly after my original lease expired, we still paid another agent to draw up a legal lease so I would have the document.   The original agent wasn't happy but couldn't do anything about it.  She had lied to him about the original rent I was paying and pocketing the difference.

Who do you think is actually holding the deposit, the agent or the landlord?

[JBChiangRai]

Your lease should be with the landlord not the agent. It’s not valid if it’s with the agent.

 

I don’t use agent’s contracts, I write my own and I renew directly with tenants after the first year and I do not pay Agent commission for the second and subsequent years because they do no work for it as it’s my contract.

[CanadaSam]

I would first consult to owner to confirm that they have your deposit.

 

If so, then draw up a simple lease and sign directly with landlord.

 

If not, then you have a problem as agent will want  to see empty, clean condo before returning your deposit.

[JimTripper]

12 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Your lease should be with the landlord not the agent. It’s not valid if it’s with the agent.

 

I don’t use agent’s contracts, I write my own and I renew directly with tenants after the first year and I do not pay Agent commission for the second and subsequent years because they do no work for it as it’s my contract.

I agree. The only reason I would want to renew through the agent is the leverage factor in getting the deposit back. It looks like they are listed as a third party or witness on the lease, not the principal.

 

They take pictures before and after and document it all. If the deposit is not returned for a good reason their reputation is at stake. They may also pressure the landlord legally to return the deposit, but I'm not sure. If I'm not drawn up on a current dated lease with them as a third party I think I'm on my own though.

[Liverpool Lou]

34 minutes ago, dddave said:

Most landlords have to pay an ongoing share of the rent to the agent

No, they do not.  Agents  are remunerated with (usually) one month's rent at the start of the lease period, they do not get ongoing commission throughout the period as your comment suggested.

[Dante99]

to extend your stay just make a simple lease with your landlord showing that the 30k deposit is made already and the landlord acknowledges receipt.

 

If the landlord signs that lease you are good to go

 

Do not think you have a problem when you do not really know.  

[scubascuba3]

Get a new lease agreement with the landlord, if he can't do that continue with the old agent process

[MadAtMatrix]

Your landlord needs to say to the agent, "I have a sitting tenant, who wishes to renew for another year, you can remove my listing from your agency as it is not available." If the agency is holding the deposit, the owner asks for it back and holds it now

 

Take your existing contract, alter the parts that removes the agency from the contract and sign it with owner. 

 

 

[JimTripper]

52 minutes ago, MadAtMatrix said:

Your landlord needs to say to the agent, "I have a sitting tenant, who wishes to renew for another year, you can remove my listing from your agency as it is not available." If the agency is holding the deposit, the owner asks for it back and holds it now

 

Take your existing contract, alter the parts that removes the agency from the contract and sign it with owner. 

It's a bit strange that the landlord wanted me to tell the agent something. After expressing my interest to stay, it seems like the landlord should take the ball and either present me with another lease or ask the agent to present me one since they hired the agent.

It's unclear if the agent is actually doing ongoing property management, or if they were just responsible for finding me as a tenant and writing up the lease. I figured they were acting as a property manager since they come in at the end and take photo's and determine damages. I wonder if they even differentiate those roles here.

[Yellowtail]

Tell her to refund your deposit and you'll go month to month 

[Celsius]

5 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Who do you think is actually holding the deposit, the agent or the landlord?

 

The agent gets 2 month deposit. They get paid 1 month from that deposit and give the rest to landlord.

 

5 hours ago, JimTripper said:

The landlord told me privately that she would prefer that I tell the real estate agent that I moved out so she did not have to pay their fee for a new lease renewal,

 

You wrote  this yourself, so I am 100% confident you will not be getting any deposit back.

 

When me and wife decide to rent, we only rent from landlords that are not in the country (prefer HK, Taiwanese, Singaporean landlords) Every time the repair was needed, this was handled without any issue with the agent who just need to contact the landlord to approve the repairs.

 

 

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

The agent gets 2 month deposit. They get paid 1 month from that deposit and give the rest to landlord.

How would that work if I get the full deposit returned (2 months)? That would mean the agent does not get paid, right?

[BusyB]

18 hours ago, JimTripper said:

My lease expires in less then a month. I contacted both the landlord and the real estate agent and expressed by desire to renew.

 

The landlord told me privately that she would prefer that I tell the real estate agent that I moved out so she did not have to pay their fee for a new lease renewal, and that I just keep paying rent as usual and could remain in the unit.

 

I'm worried about getting the deposit back at some point if I'm not on a lease and the real estate agent is out of the picture. It also feels weird to not have a lease. I have never met the landlord and only send line messages. It's just a line contact the juristic person here gave me. Also, I paid the deposit in cash to the real estate agent initially.

 

The agent is trying to do a lease renewal but the landlord has not signed off and I'm running out of time to find a new condo. It's also unclear if the lease expires or if it self-renews. It says to give 30 days notice to move out, but also says contact the agent to renew.

 

Should I just move out if the lease is not signed by the expiration date or stay and keep paying rent?

 

Lies have short legs and I definitely wouldn't want my tenancy (or any other kind of business) based on that kind of a stitch up of one party or the other. It's a dishonest scheme that leaves you vulnerable to something as simple as one of the other parties simply changing their mind.

 

If it got close to renewal time with no solution I'd be inclined to take the initiative and find a cheap short term rental while I looked for a decent new pad. Leave the landlord and the real estate guy to sort it themselves. It'd be worth a little short term extra costs to me for a secure tenancy and peace of mind. 

 

A stress free life is worth its weight in gold. Don't dance to others' tunes, play your own.

[BusyB]

18 hours ago, JimTripper said:

There might be a problem between the agent and the landlord. Initially, I just communicated through the agent.

 

Then the juristic person here contacted me and wanted my Line or phone number for the owner. He said, the owner communicated to him that the agent would not answer their messages. So I got caught in a triangle of sorts.

 

That's about the last thing I want to do in Thailand with someone holding my deposit (30k).

 

30k is painful rich or poor.

 

But whether you get the deposit back or not is independent of their shenanigans. Maybe they're even playing you together? There are legal methods of reclaiming the deposit as long as you have the paperwork, and that doesn't depend on you living there any more. Or maybe just write it off. That way you only get angry once and don't have to pay lawyers. 

 

The way I've always seen it with rentals in Thailand (and I've had several long term leases) is that once I've paid the deposit it's no longer part of my current financial considerations. I don't hold it as some kind of 'collateral' or 'savings' against my future bank account. It's gone - paid. I paid 20k last year. I've actually never had a problem getting a deposit back yet. But although losing 20k would have saddened me and made me angry, it wouldn't actually have had an effect on anything else I was doing. I could have come up with a deposit again if I'd had to.

 

Like they say: don't ever invest anything in Thailand you can't simply walk away from. That's real freedom here.

 

Don't dance to their tune remains my take on this. Not worth the bother. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

19 hours ago, JimTripper said:

My lease expires in less then a month

 

moved out so she did not have to pay their fee for a new lease renewal, and that I just keep paying rent as usual and could remain in the unit

If I remember you are located near PKCP.

I bought off Ratanakorn, PKCP and Centre Point, great location, nice area, close to everything. 

 

I've never lived in my condos, mostly had them rented. I tried to avoid the annual agent fees (1 months rent) so I would go and see the tenant personally with a lease, have it completed each year, tenant and landlord (myself).

 

Contact the owner, make an appointment, sign a new lease. 

 

It's high season now, finding new accommodation in good location at a reasonable price not easy.

 

Good luck. 

[NedR69]

I think you're in a tight spot, and at this point a departure probably won't get your deposits back and staying with the owner only may have issues with your immigration papers.  Hope you can get it resolved.

[newnative]

21 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Your lease should be with the landlord not the agent. It’s not valid if it’s with the agent.

 

I don’t use agent’s contracts, I write my own and I renew directly with tenants after the first year and I do not pay Agent commission for the second and subsequent years because they do no work for it as it’s my contract.

Same when we did condo rentals.  The agent got the first month's rent as the fee for bringing the client and then they were out of the picture altogether.

[LukKrueng]

21 hours ago, JimTripper said:

I agree. The only reason I would want to renew through the agent is the leverage factor in getting the deposit back. It looks like they are listed as a third party or witness on the lease, not the principal.

 

They take pictures before and after and document it all. If the deposit is not returned for a good reason their reputation is at stake. They may also pressure the landlord legally to return the deposit, but I'm not sure. If I'm not drawn up on a current dated lease with them as a third party I think I'm on my own though.

Who do you pay rent to? The agent or directly to the landlord?

The deposit (usually 2 months rent) is split between the agent and the landlord. The agent keeps his half as the commission for finding the renter. When you move out, the landlord is supposed to pay back in full. The agent doesn't have any power over the landlord in case he doesn't give it back.

You can and should sign a contract directly with the landlord. You can insist signing it at the condo office and have them witness the signing of the contract.

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, BusyB said:

Like they say: don't ever invest anything in Thailand you can't simply walk away from. That's real freedom here.

That's a good point, but it would probably mean living in a ratty room somewhere. Some of these cheaper monthly stay rooms with small deposits are awful. I looked at one next door in case things went belly up here and it was not for me, to put it politely.

 

I also tried Airbb, but I got tired of moving all the time and searching for places on there and timing the stays just right.

[spidermike007]

Your obligation is to the landlord, not the broker. Keep the landlord happy, that is all that matters. 

[BusyB]

3 hours ago, JimTripper said:

That's a good point, but it would probably mean living in a ratty room somewhere. Some of these cheaper monthly stay rooms with small deposits are awful. I looked at one next door in case things went belly up here and it was not for me, to put it politely.

 

I also tried Airbb, but I got tired of moving all the time and searching for places on there and timing the stays just right.

 

Fair enough, but as a stepping stone for a few weeks to get set up decently again it'd be acceptable in my case. Either way, best o' luck to you. Pretty miserable situation to suddenly be in. 

[JimTripper]

32 minutes ago, BusyB said:

Fair enough, but as a stepping stone for a few weeks to get set up decently again it'd be acceptable in my case. Either way, best o' luck to you. Pretty miserable situation to suddenly be in. 

I have decided to just stay and keep paying rent as usual, unless someone tells me to leave. I can't find a better place for the price without signing a new contract and paying another deposit to a different landlord. I won't know if the deposit is returned until I actually vacate. I think I would still be legally entitled to the deposit at some point even if the lease had expired and I was still living here in subsequent months. I'm assuming someone won't just come in and remove my things due to some communication issue.

[champers]

Don't you need a valid lease to renew your visa (e.g. retirement)?

[JimTripper]

6 minutes ago, champers said:

Don't you need a valid lease to renew your visa (e.g. retirement)?

No. I will relocate and try for the digital nomad visa as to not deposit money in a Thai Bank.

[khunPer]

On 11/24/2024 at 4:05 AM, JimTripper said:

My lease expires in less then a month. I contacted both the landlord and the real estate agent and expressed by desire to renew.

 

The landlord told me privately that she would prefer that I tell the real estate agent that I moved out so she did not have to pay their fee for a new lease renewal, and that I just keep paying rent as usual and could remain in the unit.

 

I'm worried about getting the deposit back at some point if I'm not on a lease and the real estate agent is out of the picture. It also feels weird to not have a lease. I have never met the landlord and only send line messages. It's just a line contact the juristic person here gave me. Also, I paid the deposit in cash to the real estate agent initially.

 

The agent is trying to do a lease renewal but the landlord has not signed off and I'm running out of time to find a new condo. It's also unclear if the lease expires or if it self-renews. It says to give 30 days notice to move out, but also says contact the agent to renew.

 

Should I just move out if the lease is not signed by the expiration date or stay and keep paying rent?

The Thai law seems quite clear on the matter:

 

Section 564. A contract of hire is extinguished at the end of the agreed period without notice.

 

Section 566. If no period is agreed upon or presumed, either party may terminate the contract of hire at the end of each period for the payment of rent, provided that notice of at least one rent period is given, but no more than two months notice need be given.

 

Section 570. If, at the end of the agreed period, the hirer remains in possession of the property and the lessor knowing thereof does not object, the parties are deemed to have renewed the contract for an indefinite period.

Source link to the law in English translantion HERE.

[john donson]

no clause that the lease can just go on

 

why pay for an agent that offers no new service ?