Thai E-Cigarette Debate Sparks Health Experts' Outrage

[snoop1130]

File photo for reference only

 

The House special committee on e-cigarettes has caused an uproar by suggesting three controversial proposals: maintaining a complete ban, legalizing heated tobacco products (HTPs), or approving all types of e-cigarettes. Health organizations across the nation are criticizing these options for seemingly supporting pro-smoking interests.

 

Health experts from the Tobacco Control Research and Knowledge Management Centre, Action Against Smoking and Health Foundation, and Thai Health Promotion Foundation demand a thorough examination of these recommendations. Concerns are high that the committee might be swayed by industry ties.

 

Dr. Roengrudee Patanavanich from Mahidol University points out a conflict of interest, revealing that two committee members have connections to the tobacco industry. This, she says, breaches Article 5.3 of the World Tobacco Control Convention, and questions the committee's impartiality.

 

Globally, the trend is to ban e-cigarettes; countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Brazil have strict restrictions. Even nations like the UK and France, which allow e-cigarettes, impose limitations on disposable variants.

 

Dr. Prakit Vathesatogkit from the Action on Smoking and Health Foundation criticizes the report for neglecting control measures if legalization occurs, warning it could lead to a spike in youth addiction. He also highlights potential financial burdens due to the increased need for monitoring and enforcement if e-cigarettes are legalized, requiring more resources and specialized equipment.

 

 

Echoing these sentiments, the International Union Against Tuberculosis and Lung Diseases advises countries like Thailand to ban e-cigarettes and HTPs outright due to economic constraints.

 

Economist Prof. Isra Sarntisart argues against claims that legalizing e-cigarettes would increase tax revenue, calling it an "economic mirage." He cites a US study showing that tax gains do not cover the medical costs associated with e-cigarette-related illnesses.

 

Assoc. Prof. Dr. Nitas Sirichotirat emphasizes the threat smoking poses to UN Sustainable Development Goals, highlighting the broader impact of e-cigarettes on both health and economy.

 

As Thailand navigates this contentious issue, the debate underscores significant health and economic implications for its future.

 

-- 2024-12-06

 

 

[dinsdale]

I'm absolutely sure the global tobacco industry has no influence on this. Let's put the focus on vaping.  

[Mason45]

I haven't had a cigarette for the past 45 years, not even one puff. I don't see any difference between vaping and tobacco smoking. We hear all about the chemicals in vaping. So I take it that ready made cigarettes are chemicals free. That's just a load of crap from the all powerful tobacco industry protecting their wealth to the detriment of peoples health.

[ikke1959]

Many Thais and officials, police officers, teachers are vaping. If you want to discourage it make it more expensive, tabacco and e cigarettes.... double the prices and a lot of people will stop or use less.. See what in the Netherlands a package of cigarettes cost 11,10 ( about 400THB)  euro, and tobacco  50 gram 24,62 euro ( about 960 THB)...It discourage smoking really. And stop the free selling on markets of e cigarettes, or allow them as many tourists use them too... Only being outrage and doing nothing is not solving any problem

[Dr Jon]

Any chance of actually enforcing no smoking and no vaping laws in bars and restaurants? Otherwise numerous selfish dimwits will continue to force others to breathe their smelly and carcenogenic chemicals.

[Expat68]

Speaking as a non smoker, I would much rather sit next to a smoker than those s--t things, can't stand them

[hotchilli]

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The House special committee on e-cigarettes has caused an uproar by suggesting three controversial proposals: maintaining a complete ban, legalizing heated tobacco products (HTPs), or approving all types of e-cigarettes. Health organizations across the nation are criticizing these options for seemingly supporting pro-smoking interests

Some people use the latter as a means to get off the real cigarettes.

But lets ban E-cigarettes and keep the cancer sticks available and affordable

[Presnock]

8 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Some people use the latter as a means to get off the real cigarettes.

But lets ban E-cigarettes and keep the cancer sticks available and affordable

since smoking  is an entirely personal choice deny any  medical insurance claims with health problems arising from smoking

[hotchilli]

16 minutes ago, Presnock said:

since smoking  is an entirely personal choice deny any  medical insurance claims with health problems arising from smoking

An ex-neighbour used to moan about the air quality to me while puffing away on a roll-up..

he passed with lung cancer 

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

An ex-neighbour used to moan about the air quality to me while puffing away on a roll-up..

he passed with lung cancer 

 

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

An ex-neighbour used to moan about the air quality to me while puffing away on a roll-up..

he passed with lung cancer 

yeah 80-90% of lung cancers are caused by smoking  https://www.verywellhealth.com

[thesetat2013]

I wish they would ban all smoking. cigarettes as well as vaping. Then maybe i could quit and get healthier. Also, too many thai kids are vaping these days. Even in primary school my child tells me some children are vaping there as well. Horrible habits. 

[hotchilli]

25 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

Also, too many thai kids are vaping these days. Even in primary school my child tells me some children are vaping there as well. Horrible habits. 

Kids learn bad habits from adults

[jcmj]

If they ban vapes, then they should ban cigarettes. But of course we know that the cigarette manufacturers have big pockets and connections, so they won’t be stopped. Vapes are now the cheaper alternatives to cigarettes and the tobacco companies don’t want them around, unless they get into the game. I bet some already are. Time will tell. 

[LALes]

I don't know which is worse, the stench of tobacco from cigarettes or the stench of 

chemicals from e-cigs.  Both are horrid.  People who think e-cigs are less harmful than

regular cigarettes are deluding themselves.  And just look at the obscene volume of 

smoke emitted by vapers.  That can't be good.

[Thingamabob]

As an ex-smoker I'm not bothered by adults smoking or vaping around me. I do not support bans in general, with the exception of seriously dangerous offences such as murder, rape and theft.

[RethairedJarhead]

HTP‘s reduce 95% of pollutants… reading a lot of uneducated comments here… but hey, that seems to be the trend on aseannow.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

 

yeah 80-90% of lung cancers are caused by smoking  https://www.verywellhealth.com

Along the same lines, cirrhosis of he liver caused by alcohol consumption, that and cigarettes of all types causing health issues, govt should force the tobacco and alcoholic drinks to pay hospital costs for hospital and doctor patient caused by their products.  Then they will either increase cost of same to pay for those medical bills and probably force people to better spend their money on something else not as dangerous to one's health.  IMHO anyway.

[kingstonkid]

13 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Many Thais and officials, police officers, teachers are vaping. If you want to discourage it make it more expensive, tabacco and e cigarettes.... double the prices and a lot of people will stop or use less.. See what in the Netherlands a package of cigarettes cost 11,10 ( about 400THB)  euro, and tobacco  50 gram 24,62 euro ( about 960 THB)...It discourage smoking really. And stop the free selling on markets of e cigarettes, or allow them as many tourists use them too... Only being outrage and doing nothing is not solving any problem

 

The challenge is not to raise the price but to either legalize it and restrict access (ala cigarettes) or to leave it.  The amount of stuff (not sure of quality) that ia avail on the street is rediculous.  

 

I would hate to think what would happen if RTP actually enforced laws. Hell NANA would be a ghost town.

If the government were to legalize vaping and restrict its sales to shops that also sell cigarettes, it would be easier to regulate. This would be a more effective approach than allowing numerous stalls to sell these products to tourists. Regulation is key to managing this issue, and it's time for the government to take a proactive stance.   

 

It is because of Tourists that I think you can not make it illegal.  There are too many tourists that vape, so they have to have access, or they will not come here.

 

So you either move sales to CP and mom and pop with regulations or you let the legal  POT shops sell it.  That is probably the best idea.

 

 

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

 

The challenge is not to raise the price but to either legalize it and restrict access (ala cigarettes) or to leave it.  The amount of stuff (not sure of quality) that ia avail on the street is rediculous.  

 

I would hate to think what would happen if RTP actually enforced laws. Hell NANA would be a ghost town.

If the government were to legalize vaping and restrict its sales to shops that also sell cigarettes, it would be easier to regulate. This would be a more effective approach than allowing numerous stalls to sell these products to tourists. Regulation is key to managing this issue, and it's time for the government to take a proactive stance.   

 

It is because of Tourists that I think you can not make it illegal.  There are too many tourists that vape, so they have to have access, or they will not come here.

 

So you either move sales to CP and mom and pop with regulations or you let the legal  POT shops sell it.  That is probably the best idea.

 

 

Totally agree, the only problem is that even if you regulate it in Thailand there is no enforcement either.. It seems that here everybody can do as they want/like as the RTP is too lazy to enforce any regulation, law, or control rules... You know they talk a lot without knowing the consequences.. Vaping illegal and tourists stay away they don't want, but they can and will fine tourists as we have seen already, while police is vaping themselves. Tourists will tell it in their home country and still stay away.. Thai people are being treated as children too many regulations which nobody follows and why it is a mess all over the country,

[Globalres]

3 hours ago, LALes said:

I don't know which is worse, the stench of tobacco from cigarettes or the stench of 

chemicals from e-cigs.  Both are horrid.  People who think e-cigs are less harmful than

regular cigarettes are deluding themselves.  And just look at the obscene volume of 

smoke emitted by vapers.  That can't be good.

Well, chatGPT has this to say: 

E-cigarettes (or vaping) are generally considered less harmful than traditional cigarettes, but they are not risk-free. Here’s a breakdown:

 

1. Comparative Harm

• Traditional Cigarettes: Burn tobacco, producing thousands of harmful chemicals, including tar and carbon monoxide, which are major contributors to lung and heart disease, cancer, and other health issues.

• E-Cigarettes: Deliver nicotine through a vaporized liquid, avoiding combustion. This means they typically have fewer toxic substances compared to cigarette smoke. However, the aerosols in e-cigarettes still contain harmful chemicals, such as heavy metals, volatile organic compounds, and some carcinogens.

 

2. Nicotine Addiction

• Both products deliver nicotine, a highly addictive substance that can harm developing brains (adolescents and young adults) and increase heart rate and blood pressure.

• While e-cigarettes can deliver nicotine in varying amounts, the potential for addiction remains a concern.

 

3. Long-Term Risks

• Cigarettes: Long-term risks are well-documented, including lung cancer, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), and cardiovascular disease.

• E-Cigarettes: Long-term effects are not fully known yet because they are relatively new. However, early evidence suggests risks like lung irritation and potential heart effects.

 

4. Smoking Cessation

• Some studies suggest e-cigarettes can help smokers quit, especially when combined with other cessation aids or support. However, they are not FDA-approved for this purpose, and some users end up using both cigarettes and e-cigarettes (dual use), which is harmful.

 

5. Public Health Concern

• For non-smokers, especially youth, e-cigarettes pose a significant risk due to their appeal and potential to lead to nicotine addiction and, in some cases, smoking traditional cigarettes.

 

Bottom Line:

 

E-cigarettes are less harmful than cigarettes for current smokers, especially if they fully switch to vaping. However, they are not safe and should not be used by non-smokers, youth, or those who are nicotine-free. If you’re considering quitting smoking, speak to a healthcare professional for guidance on safer, evidence-based methods.

[Marco100]

Studies shows that Vaping is far less harmful than smoking mainly based on the fact that tobacco is treated with endless ammount of chemicals ( 7000 ) and the combustion of those chemicals is the cause of various cancer's . Burning tobacco and inhaling all those chemicals is more dangerous than vaping vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol n nicotine.  Both are not good but vaping is about 90% less harmful than smoking n fr those who wants to stop smoking it definitely helps . 

[James105]

The tobacco industry has done very well to ensure that a safer means of ingesting nicotine is kept illegal in so many countries.  Even convincing people that they are equally dangerous as actual smoking and encouraging the ridiculous notion that using vapes could lead to the far more dangerous activity of actual smoking whilst ensuring the proven to be highly dangerous activity is kept legal and the safer (or much less harmful) option is kept illegal.   

 

Well done big tobacco.  You have managed to keep a highly toxic, cancerous product available to be sold legally, whilst at the same time ensuring the much less harmful competitor is illegal.   You have many useful idiots (as evidenced by this thread) on your side too to help spread your propaganda.  The money spent on lobbying and bribes has been well spent it seams.  

[kingstonkid]

7 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Totally agree, the only problem is that even if you regulate it in Thailand there is no enforcement either.. It seems that here everybody can do as they want/like as the RTP is too lazy to enforce any regulation, law, or control rules... You know they talk a lot without knowing the consequences.. Vaping illegal and tourists stay away they don't want, but they can and will fine tourists as we have seen already, while police is vaping themselves. Tourists will tell it in their home country and still stay away.. Thai people are being treated as children too many regulations which nobody follows and why it is a mess all over the country,

 I know it may sound funny but to me there are 3 ways to handle it.

 

Leave it wild west like they are now where anyone can sell anything (do you really know what is in the package you buy on the street) 

 

Ban it completely    Say good bye to a lot of tourism money

 

Regulate it and sell it in locations that the government can control. The best place to sell it is probably in the registered Mary Jane shops.  Selling it in the MOM and POP locations or selling it in CP stores has minimal control.  Selling it in the Marijuana shops is more controllable because you can close them down if they screw up.  

 

[ericthai]

15 hours ago, Presnock said:

since smoking  is an entirely personal choice deny any  medical insurance claims with health problems arising from smoking

and should we do the same for people that drink Alcohol? what about people that drink too much soda or eat too many snacks and get overweight. Should we hold medial care from them too? 

[dinsdale]

On 12/6/2024 at 6:36 PM, Mason45 said:

I haven't had a cigarette for the past 45 years, not even one puff. I don't see any difference between vaping and tobacco smoking. We hear all about the chemicals in vaping. So I take it that ready made cigarettes are chemicals free. That's just a load of crap from the all powerful tobacco industry protecting their wealth to the detriment of peoples health.

I smoked for >40yrs. Now I vape. I can tell you there is a big difference between the two.

[FolkGuitar]

10 hours ago, ericthai said:

and should we do the same ( since smoking  is an entirely personal choice ) deny any  medical insurance claims with health problems arising from smoking for people that drink Alcohol? what about people that drink too much soda or eat too many snacks and get overweight. Should we hold medial care from them too? 

 

Perhaps not 'deny' them, but certainly put them at the end of the treatment timeline.  All self-abuse should be identified as such, and be far more costly to treat, maybe even help subsidize costs for those whose health problems were not of their own making.

[BangkokReady]

10 hours ago, ericthai said:

On 12/7/2024 at 6:23 AM, Presnock said:

since smoking  is an entirely personal choice deny any  medical insurance claims with health problems arising from smoking

and should we do the same for people that drink Alcohol? what about people that drink too much soda or eat too many snacks and get overweight. Should we hold medial care from them too? 

 

Yes!  And if they hurt themselves in a way that could be foreseen, too!  Motorcycles, fasts cars, sports, etc.  No insurance for them either.

 

That should get premiums down.  

[Presnock]

17 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Yes!  And if they hurt themselves in a way that could be foreseen, too!  Motorcycles, fasts cars, sports, etc.  No insurance for them either.

 

That should get premiums down.  

Well I doubt that asit seems to me that too many senior managers only care about profits, not costs to customers.

[kimamey]

On 12/7/2024 at 7:44 AM, jcmj said:

If they ban vapes, then they should ban cigarettes. But of course we know that the cigarette manufacturers have big pockets and connections, so they won’t be stopped. Vapes are now the cheaper alternatives to cigarettes and the tobacco companies don’t want them around, unless they get into the game. I bet some already are. Time will tell. 

As far as I know the big tobacco companies are getting into vapes as they can see that regulations are closing in on tobacco. Mind you vaping may not escape either.