I was absolutely mortified at what I witnessed yesterday.

[soalbundy]

Just now, BarBoy said:

I don't. 

Then you should be consequential and leave because they wont change for you.

[brewsterbudgen]

It's shocking, dispiriting and annoying, but not to most Thais, so it's not going to change.  Life is cheap here.

[FriscoKid]

12 hours ago, BarBoy said:

Yesterday, on the way home from the pub (in a taxi), I witnessed a crash between a motorbike and a car. Traffic was backed up for a few minutes and when It was my turn to pass I saw the driver of the bike pick up a baby girl that had been with him on his scooter when it crashed - with no bleeding helmet! 

 

Thankfully the girl was still alive but was crying her eyes out and her leg was covered in blood.

That could easily have been her head.....

 

What is wrong with these people that they are so irresponsible as to not put a helmet on their child's head before driving the bike?

Are they lacking in education, awareness or are they just too damn lazy to do it?

They can afford the bike, so why not a child's helmet from Tesco?

 

I see the same thing day in day out, parents driving bikes at high speed with kids on the front and no crash helmet...

Will the Thai's ever learn?

bob are you changing your name to morty now?

[Chris Daley]

Why were you horrified?  Bad meal at the pub?

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, BarBoy said:

Can't argue with that, Charlie.

 

But I also think it goes beyond just enforcement of the law.

 

I think there is a cultural element to it which I am still trying to figure out..

When you know that you are coming back, it puts a different perspective on life.

 

I'm constantly boggled by how many posters on AN want LOS be be like the <deleted> hole they escaped from. You can't pick and choose which bits of life in LOS you prefer. If you want cheap women, then you have to accept their lack of caring about the things woke farangs fixate on.

 

Frankly, if AN posters want to live in a country where people are compelled wear a helmet on a m'bike they should b*****r off back to whatever <deleted> hole they came from, IMO.

 

BTW, don't some states in the USA allow m'bike riders to not wear helmets? I don't see anyone ranting about that.

 

IMO it's up to the individual to take responsibility for themselves or not. I've had it with nanny states that the west has become. If someone chooses not to wear a helmet and die because of it, so be it- that's on them.

 

PS I always wear a helmet when riding, and my life was saved by one, but it's not up to me to tell anyone else that they have to wear one.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

Why were you horrified?  Bad meal at the pub?

Must be something like that. A bad meal can make one PO enough to want Thailand to be a nanny state, apparently.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It's shocking, dispiriting and annoying, but not to most Thais, so it's not going to change.  Life is cheap here.

I wish people would stop saying that life is cheap in Thailand. It's not true.

They just have a different perspective from wokeists.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Then you should be consequential and leave because they wont change for you.

Good suggestion.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, BarBoy said:

so why the constant negligence and blatant disregard for laws on the road then?

Same reason as you get cheap women in LOS. If they abided by the laws the women would be way more expensive, like back in your <deleted> hole country you chose to leave to live in LOS.

[G_Money]

11 hours ago, BarBoy said:

How do you know I am not Thai?

1.  Thais are not named Bob.

2.  Thais wouldn’t post stupid posts on a primarily farang forum.

[BarBoy]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's up to the individual to take responsibility for themselves or not

You have totally missed the mark here, beachlover.

 

My OP was about the baby who was on the bike without a helmet, driven by an adult.

 

Does your philosophy also extend to that child who was legally incapable of making the decision for herself? 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wish people would stop saying that life is cheap in Thailand. It's not true.

They just have a different perspective from wokeists.

What is a "wokeist" perspective?

[pomchop]

viet nam seems to have figured out how to convince bike riders to wear helmets....it's called enforcement

[Old Curmudgeon]

22 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

... the public is the jungle for them, every man for themselves.  ... It's almost like they're not at that level of civilization yet.

 

Good observations, and I agree with @NorthernRyland's comments.

 

"The Public" certainly is a "jungle" for them.

To practice my Thai language I talk with my Thai neighbors, my maid, my cook, with GRAB drivers, any adult Thai who will talk with me.

And, yes, true, a common theme is how dangerous the world is, outside of the family home.

 

As for the comment, "not at that level of civilization yet," again I agree, AND there is some scholarly analysis on exactly this topic, (albeit still in the controversial stage).

Those interested can search for Julian Jaynes, The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind.

That hypothesis does not mention Thai culture (as far as I remember), but it explains a lot about Thai culture, such as discussed on this topic.

[NanLaew]

18 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And potentially dangerous to you and your family!

You might have accepted it wrt yourself but what about the  kids who know no better and need to be lead by example?.

In a recent forum poll asking, "Why did you choose to retire in Thailand?", the option of "To set an example to the locals" wasn't even offered.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

viet nam seems to have figured out how to convince bike riders to wear helmets....it's called enforcement

Wasn't it ever? I was working south of Haiphong back in the early 90's when the police started to really enforce this law. They succeeded by pulling over and relentlessly beating the helmetless motorcyclists. And I mean a real beating with thick bamboo canes.

 

Somehow, I can't see the RTP beating up anybody. Suffocating with a bin bag maybe but beating with sticks and clubs?

[theshu25]

14 hours ago, FriscoKid said:

bob are you changing your name to morty now?

I have a better name and your first 3 letters are  on to it.

[spidermike007]

Also it's very common to see young children in a car without a child seat, no seat belt and no child seat makes them a projectile if an accident happens. If we knew the actual figures of children who are killed and mutilated on the highways due to such a lack of protection, we would be quite horrified I'm sure. 

 

We bought a child seat for our niece and installed it in the car, and she wouldn't use it. She refused to use it and her parents would not insist on her using it. They would not be firm with her and they absolutely refused to act like parents, and demonstrated the fact that the art of parenting seems to be a lost art. 

 

Gen Z in my opinion is the weakest generation in the history of mankind, and we are witnessing countless repercussions as a result of that. 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Also it's very common to see young children in a car without a child seat, no seat belt and no child seat makes them a projectile if an accident happens. If we knew the actual figures of children who are killed and mutilated on the highways due to such a lack of protection, we would be quite horrified I'm sure. 

 

We bought a child seat for our niece and installed it in the car, and she wouldn't use it. She refused to use it and her parents would not insist on her using it. They would not be firm with her and they absolutely refused to act like parents, and demonstrated the fact that the art of parenting seems to be a lost art. 

 

Gen Z in my opinion is the weakest generation in the history of mankind, and we are witnessing countless repercussions as a result of that.

 

How can you possibly make that observation when car windows are tinted so dark, you can't see inside?

 

I bought two car child seats for each of my youngsters here in Thailand. I had to "import" the first one as they were unknown back then. The second one was bought in Central where by that time, they had a big choice. I am sure they weren't selling them only to responsible foreigners. In both instances, about eight years apart, we had no issues using them at all. The kids accepted it as normal with very few complaints and those few complaints were due to hunger, tiredness or a full diaper, same as kids everywhere.

 

Just to say that responsible parenting isn't a lost art. You cannot make that judgement solely based on your personal experience.

 

As for castigation of a younger generation just because they're different from your older generation...

[richard_smith237]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When you know that you are coming back, it puts a different perspective on life.

 

I'm constantly boggled by how many posters on AN want LOS be be like the <deleted> hole they escaped from. You can't pick and choose which bits of life in LOS you prefer. If you want cheap women, then you have to accept their lack of caring about the things woke farangs fixate on.

 

Its because we care about the place we moved to...  If we didn't care that people are unnecessarily dying, we would have no opinion. 

 

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Frankly, if AN posters want to live in a country where people are compelled wear a helmet on a m'bike they should b*****r off back to whatever <deleted> hole they came from, IMO.

 

Its still the law here - and Thai's also have an opinion on this - If a kid kills themselves becasue they pull out in front of my Wife without a helmet on (while she is driving) - its not her fault, but a helmet may have saved them and prevented her some horrible emotional trauma. 

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

BTW, don't some states in the USA allow m'bike riders to not wear helmets? I don't see anyone ranting about that.

 

Illinois, Iowa, and New Hampshire - any many states also allow guns - a lot of people are sick of the idiocy.

 

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's up to the individual to take responsibility for themselves or not. I've had it with nanny states that the west has become. If someone chooses not to wear a helmet and die because of it, so be it- that's on them.

 

As mention above - its not an individual issue when it impacts society. 

 

 

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

PS I always wear a helmet when riding, and my life was saved by one, but it's not up to me to tell anyone else that they have to wear one.

 

Its not up to you - its up to the police and they are lazy - thats why Thailand has such a high road fatality rates. 

When 80% of road deaths (an estimated 20,000) are motorcyclists - compare that to Vietnam and the issue is clear. 

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

How can you possibly make that observation when car windows are tinted so dark, you can't see inside?

 

I bought two car child seats for each of my youngsters here in Thailand. I had to "import" the first one as they were unknown back then. The second one was bought in Central where by that time, they had a big choice. I am sure they weren't selling them only to responsible foreigners. In both instances, about eight years apart, we had no issues using them at all. The kids accepted it as normal with very few complaints and those few complaints were due to hunger, tiredness or a full diaper, same as kids everywhere.

 

Just to say that responsible parenting isn't a lost art. You cannot make that judgement solely based on your personal experience.

 

Easy - I also see a lot of kids in the car without seatbelts, propped up on the lap of mom in the passenger seat....  (not all windows are so dark we can't see in).

 

I would see a lot of my Son's friends turning up at school in their Alphards...  they never had car seats... I'm not even sure if they use their seatbelt.

 

I too brought over the Car seats from the UK - and now my Son is 11 and outgrown his car seat, he is on a booster bought locally so the seatbelt crosses his chest at a good height.

 

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

As for castigation of a younger generation just because they're different from your older generation...

 

Agree with this - if 'every older generation were correct in their castigation of the younger generation' we'd be back before the industrial revolution instead of making the massive advancements in tech.

 

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Its because we care about the place we moved to...  If we didn't care that people are unnecessarily dying, we would have no opinion. 

 

 

 

Its still the law here - and Thai's also have an opinion on this - If a kid kills themselves becasue they pull out in front of my Wife without a helmet on (while she is driving) - its not her fault, but a helmet may have saved them and prevented her some horrible emotional trauma. 

 

 

Illinois, Iowa, and New Hampshire - any many states also allow guns - a lot of people are sick of the idiocy.

 

 

 

As mention above - its not an individual issue when it impacts society. 

 

 

 

Its not up to you - its up to the police and they are lazy - thats why Thailand has such a high road fatality rates. 

When 80% of road deaths (an estimated 20,000) are motorcyclists - compare that to Vietnam and the issue is clear. 

What's this "we" you talk about?

 

What's this "law" you talk about?

 

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the laziness of the Thai police, nothing whatsoever.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What's this "we" you talk about?

 

What's this "law" you talk about?

 

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the laziness of the Thai police, nothing whatsoever.

 

'We' - People who care about the country in which we live. 

 

The Law - Section 122 of Land Traffic Act, B.E. 2522

 

It has everything to do with the Police being lazy - IF every motorcyclist not wearing a helmet were fined an amount that mattered to them - this could be turned around. 

 

The police were 'not lazy' with mask wearing during Covid - it astonishes me that they managed to get everyone to wear a mask, while still ignoring the helmet wearing law. 

 

As per your comment on Vietnam policing - the police were very active and impacted significant change that has saved hundreds of thousands of lives over the years. 

 

So...   why is Vietnam policing effective, but you still comment that this has nothing to do with the laziness of the Thai police ?.... Its its not laziness of the Thai police, what is it ?

 

 

[NanLaew]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

'We' - People who care about the country in which we live. 

 

The Law - Section 122 of Land Traffic Act, B.E. 2522

 

It has everything to do with the Police being lazy - IF every motorcyclist not wearing a helmet were fined an amount that mattered to them - this could be turned around. 

 

The police were 'not lazy' with mask wearing during Covid - it astonishes me that they managed to get everyone to wear a mask, while still ignoring the helmet wearing law. 

 

As per your comment on Vietnam policing - the police were very active and impacted significant change that has saved hundreds of thousands of lives over the years. 

 

So...   why is Vietnam policing effective, but you still comment that this has nothing to do with the laziness of the Thai police ?.... Its its not laziness of the Thai police, what is it ?

 

 

 

Why should we care about a country that fundamentally doesn't care about you or I? Sure my immediate family loves me and I love them, but the rest of the people? The country?

 

I didn't mean the specific law or road traffic act or whatever you call it, I meant the "law" that among many, is neither enforced nor respected.

 

If the police fined the helmetless with more vigor, the police will be better off and the helmetless rider will be out of pocket but non the wiser. Neither road safety nor society will benefit.

 

The Thai police did not get "everyone to wear a mask". If they coordinated this "crime" with their regular money grab on motorcyclists, it wasn't anything to do with ensuring better health outcomes for their fellow man.

 

Vietnam's policing and successful enforcement of this law had not so much to do with beating up offenders as it was with NOT being Thailand.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, NanLaew said:

Why should we care about a country that fundamentally doesn't care about you or I? Sure my immediate family loves me and I love them, but the rest of the people? The country?

 

Something to do with not being a total ayhole - I've spent my adult life here, I have many Thai friends and a large extended family here - I care about them.

 

I don't like to see meaningless and unnecessary deaths in any nation - I think thats simply part of being human.

 

 

Just now, NanLaew said:

I didn't mean the specific law or road traffic act or whatever you call it, I meant the "law" that among many, is neither enforced nor respected.

 

If the police fined the helmetless with more vigor, the police will be better off and the helmetless rider will be out of pocket but non the wiser. Neither road safety nor society will benefit.

 

IF helmet laws were enforced, more Families will not lose a bread winner, there will be far less emotional trauma. 

 

The WHO estimates that road accidents cost Thailand approximately 500 billion baht, equivalent to about 3% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP) - The lack of helmet use by motorcyclists contributes to this impact on Thailands GDP in several interconnected ways, as it leads to increased fatalities, injuries, and associated economic costs such as: Loss of Human Capital and Productivity, Healthcare Costs, Insurance and Compensation Costs, Loss of Consumer Spending, Burden on Public Infrastructure, Reduction in Workforce Participation..... there are also other 'hidden issues' that burden society with more children growing up with single parent families etc...    the excessive road deaths generate greater issues which can only be noted once we delve deeper into the true impact.

 

 

Just now, NanLaew said:

The Thai police did not get "everyone to wear a mask". If they coordinated this "crime" with their regular money grab on motorcyclists, it wasn't anything to do with ensuring better health outcomes for their fellow man.

 

Perhaps...  the mask wearing was also 'fear driven'.....   Its still astonishes me that the nation paradoxically adopted mask wearing 'almost' universally, while continuing not to wear helmets - the mask wearing was policed, I agree the policing had little to do with health concerns and was another opportunity for a 'money grab' - Yet, its strange authorities do push for the same degree of social compliance when it comes to helmet wearing.

 

Without consistent enforcement or a comparable fear-driven campaign, the discrepancy remains stark. It’s a missed opportunity to prioritise long-term safety over short-term gains.

 

Just now, NanLaew said:

Vietnam's policing and successful enforcement of this law had not so much to do with beating up offenders as it was with NOT being Thailand.

 

What you're suggesting is that people here forego wearing helmets simply because "this is Thailand," implying that it's a cultural norm. I agree to an extent - culture does play a role. However, effective enforcement of laws has the power to drive cultural change and shift attitudes. IMO, the apathy and complacent law enforcement fails to address the issue and actively perpetuates the high road fatality rates.

[Pattaya57]

Why are so many people responding to a Bob Smith thread...you just made him think barboy is a legitimate alias

[Confuscious]

Do you mean like this?
 

[Gobbler]

On 12/7/2024 at 8:27 AM, BarBoy said:

Yesterday, on the way home from the pub (in a taxi), I witnessed a crash between a motorbike and a car. Traffic was backed up for a few minutes and when It was my turn to pass I saw the driver of the bike pick up a baby girl that had been with him on his scooter when it crashed - with no bleeding helmet! 

 

Thankfully the girl was still alive but was crying her eyes out and her leg was covered in blood.

That could easily have been her head.....

 

What is wrong with these people that they are so irresponsible as to not put a helmet on their child's head before driving the bike?

Thailand is a country where thinking is optional. 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, BarBoy said:

You have totally missed the mark here, beachlover.

 

My OP was about the baby who was on the bike without a helmet, driven by an adult.

 

Does your philosophy also extend to that child who was legally incapable of making the decision for herself? 

Parents are responsible for their children.

 

You should go speak to the parents about it- just make sure you have good medical insurance.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Without consistent enforcement or a comparable fear-driven campaign, the discrepancy remains stark. It’s a missed opportunity to prioritise long-term safety over short-term gains.

Sooooo, you WANT Thailand to become a western clone culture with fear driven policies on everything- wear a seat belt or get fined, drive 1 km/ hr over the speed limit and get fined/ wear a helmet or get fined etc etc etc.

It's not like the laws of fear stop people beating toddlers to death though.

 

Given the choice of living in LOS as is or living in a regulation obsessed western <deleted> hole where the sheeple live safer but way more miserable lives, and I'll take LOS any time.