Britain’s Sharia Courts and the Challenge of Religious Freedom

[PBob]

Many organisations have similar bodies to handle civil matters between their members. Members agree to abide by the decisions being made, they are not enforcable in UK law, unless covered by a contract.

Besides Moslems, some Jewish and Chritian organisations have similar 'Courts'. Also do not forget Masonic organisations and golf clubs.

[Emdog]

I'm US citizen & I get that this is UK, but one aspect I highly regard is the ideal (not often realised enough) "Equal protection under law"

None of this "voluntary" BS, everyone follow British laws, full stop... does the child in a divorce have "voluntary" choice? I think not. One law for all and if you don't like it, go somewhere like Afganistan

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, mdr224 said:

Theres british posters on this forum that wanted the US to become this, also they want thailand to become like this. You know the posters im talking about, theres quite a few of them here

Society didn't work for them so they have to try and destroy it.

[Bkk Brian]

31 minutes ago, PBob said:

Many organisations have similar bodies to handle civil matters between their members. Members agree to abide by the decisions being made, they are not enforcable in UK law, unless covered by a contract.

Besides Moslems, some Jewish and Chritian organisations have similar 'Courts'. Also do not forget Masonic organisations and golf clubs.

Pure deflection, this is not about Christian or Jewish orgs, its about the spread of Britain's Sharia courts. The Western Capital for over 85 of them

[riclag]

2 hours ago, jippytum said:

all people regardless of religion should be subject to British laws. while residing in the UK. 

For muslims to have their own courts to administer  Sharie laws outside the British judicial system to appease the  woke pro immigration lobby is a disgrace. 

I bet if a survey was conducted amongst the Dedicated  Sharia followers ,whos law would you adhere to British or Sharia , they would ignorantly profess sharia.

 

 https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2016/09/10/what-we-must-know-about-sharia-law-and-islam/

[The Cyclist]

2 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

The fear of Sharia law taking over can be exaggerated or misinformed.

 

There is no fear, exageration or misinformation.

 

It is happening and it shouldn't be. In the UK there should only be 1 Law, and that is UK Law.

 

Would the people who want to adhere to Sharia Law not be better moving to a Country that practices Sharia Law ?

[newnative]

    If you are living in a country you need to be required to live by the laws of that country.  Period.  One set of laws for everyone.  

[Yagoda]

Sharia Law is an affront to Western Law and Philosophy and it has no place in a modern western democracy.

[The Cyclist]

30 minutes ago, riclag said:

I bet if a survey was conducted amongst the Dedicated  Sharia followers ,whos law would you adhere to British or Sharia , they would ignorantly profess sharia.

 

And I would bet if that survey was conducted in only the female muslim population, the answer would be UK Law.

 

Truly amazing that some would support such a misogynistic religion / way of life, in the UK.

[candide]

9 hours ago, Social Media said:

. The Islamic Sharia Council of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, established in 1982 and based in Leyton, East London, is a prominent example. Registered as a charity, it oversees marriage (nikah) and divorce (talaq for men and khula for women) services.

And it's not like Christians (I.e. the Catholic Church) would have their own rules about this subject!

Oh wait! 😆

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

I bet if a survey was conducted amongst the Dedicated  Sharia followers ,whos law would you adhere to British or Sharia , they would ignorantly profess sharia.

 

 https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2016/09/10/what-we-must-know-about-sharia-law-and-islam/

There are members of this board who argue against British law and getting rid of many of the protections it offers individuals.

 

These opinions are mute, British law is not being overthrown, negated or abolished.

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

And I would bet if that survey was conducted in only the female muslim population, the answer would be UK Law.

 

Truly amazing that some would support such a misogynistic religion / way of life, in the UK.

You need to draw a distinction between tween supporting anything and singling out one particular faith to deny it’s adherents to follow their faith.

 

Either allow all faiths or none, all ‘religious courts’ or none.

 

Given that all ‘religious courts’ and any other form of independent arbitration in the UK subservient to British law and the ECHR where is the problem.

 

Non of the ‘religious courts’ in the UK have any authority above the law of the land.

[Will B Good]

Sharia councils in the UK function as religious mediation services, handling family and marital disputes. They are not legally binding courts and their use is on a voluntary basis.

 

The biggest problem is the gender bias they display....which I imagine many on here would be more than happy with, as rulings invariably favour men.....so what's to complain about????

[PBob]

In the UK you can join any organiaation/religion/club you like and chose to follow their rukes/law, provided they do not break UK law.

Sharia courts are no different to the long established Jewish courts that  deal with mainly family matters. If you do not want to be bound by its decision you do not need to be.

[Will B Good]

We need to be clamping down on these as well......sharpish.

 

1. Jewish Beth Din (Beit Din)

 

 

2. Catholic Marriage Tribunals

 

 

3. Sikh Panj Piare (Five Beloved Ones)

 

 

4. Hindu Panchayat System

 

 

5. Christian Ecclesiastical Courts (Anglican Church)

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Sharia councils in the UK function as religious mediation services, handling family and marital disputes. They are not legally binding courts and their use is on a voluntary basis.

 

The biggest problem is the gender bias they display....which I imagine many on here would be more than happy with, as rulings invariably favour men.....so what's to complain about????

The biggest problem is the gender bias they display....which I imagine many on here would be more than happy with, as rulings invariably favour men.....so what's to complain about????

 

What you imagine however has no basis in reality though, so imagine away on your perception that many on here are more than happy.

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

In reality, Sharia law in these countries is generally limited to voluntary use in civil matters, like family disputes and inheritance. These informal Sharia courts or councils have no legal authority in the broader legal system and are not recognized as part of the official legal framework.

 

This is just the thin end of the wedge.

 

Wait for people to get used to the idea, then gradually increase their powers (ideally when nobody is looking).

 

It should be nipped in the bud now. If you want Sharia law, go live in a country that has it. Don't try to change the country that gave you the opportunity to escape the intolerant dump that you came from. 

[simple1]

8 hours ago, jippytum said:

The muslim population in the UK has been allowed  intergrate their religious beliefs and customs into areas now solely dominated by Muslims. 

The muslim dominant areas are increasing in the British landscape and is fueled by illegal immigration of predominantly young males of muslim faith. 

 

Sharia Law is not recognised in UK Courts, nor is Jewish Law or Cannon Law and so on. solely UK Statutory and Common Law.

 

Sharia councils have no legal status and no legal binding authority under civil law. Whilst sharia is a source of guidance for many Muslims, sharia councils have no legal jurisdiction in England and Wales.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+sharia+law+recognised+in+UK+courts&oq=is+sharia+law+recognised+in+UK+courts&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRiPAtIBCjE1OTY1ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[MalcolmB]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

it would appear that they're the ones that who are least likely to have any interest in assimilation. 

How is your assimilation into Thailand going?

 

If I had to live in the USA for family, love or work I too would not want to be like you gun toting, fentanyl addicted, obese loud mouths either. It is a big ask.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Sharia Law is not recognised in UK Courts, nor is Jewish Law or Cannon Law and so on. solely UK Statutory and Common Law.

 

Sharia councils have no legal status and no legal binding authority under civil law. Whilst sharia is a source of guidance for many Muslims, sharia councils have no legal jurisdiction in England and Wales.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+sharia+law+recognised+in+UK+courts&oq=is+sharia+law+recognised+in+UK+courts&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRiPAtIBCjE1OTY1ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Yes we all know that already. Why keep repeating it. The facts however are that it can and is used abusively. Especially to women and has no place in the UK. 

[The Cyclist]

Just remember folks.

 

In the UK and some other EU Countries, the hand wringing, knicker wetting Politicians, enabled by others of a curious mental slant are really, really worried about the rise of the Right, the far Right and the Extreme Right Wing.

 

 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes we all know that already. Why keep repeating it. The facts however are that it can and is used abusively. Especially to women and has no place in the UK. 

Understood, but as said has no standing in UK Law. It's a long term project to integrate the Muslim community (especially women) into UK society. Efforts so far have been rather dismal, more resources are obviously required for domestic abuse which is a world wide problem.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Understood, but as said has no standing in UK Law. It's a long term project to integrate the Muslim community (especially women) into UK society. Efforts so far have been rather dismal, more resources are obviously required for domestic abuse which is a world wide problem.

Tell that to the women who suffer at its hands because the courts legitimate the ruling.

 

Nothing to do with normal domestic abuse the world over. What a sorry apologist you are

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

It's a long term project to integrate the Muslim community (especially women) into UK society.

 

😀😀😀😀😀

 

What we are seeing today is the re-enaction of the original Hirja

 

They have no intention of integrating into UK Society.

[Baht Simpson]

5 hours ago, Purdey said:

The Daily Telegraph stirring up anti Muslim rhetoric again. British law still means you can't go too far with sharia law where they contradict reach other. 

Wait until the police find a few chopped off hands. 

Yes, this is nothing new. Just The Daily Telegraph stirring the pot again.  But Parliament must be diligent in case of overreach.

 

"Sharia councils – also known as Sharia courts – have existed in the UK since the early 1980s. The Islamic Sharia Council (ISC) based in Leyton, East London, was established in 1982. Its website states that it was formed to “solve the matrimonial problems of Muslims living in the United Kingdom in the light of Islamic family law”, for example marriages, divorce and inheritance issues. The ISC is a Registered Charity2 and not a formal court of law, and therefore only deals with the Islamic Nikah marriage ceremony rather than civil marriage contracts."

 

"Sharia councils have no official legal or constitutional role in the UK. Their work consists primarily of adjudicating on religious divorces, usually at the request of women. They may also give verdicts on other aspects of day-today life, for example on Sharia-compliant finance or on halal food.4"

 

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2019-0102/CDP-2019-0102.pdf

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

We need to be clamping down on these as well......sharpish.

 

1. Jewish Beth Din (Beit Din)

 

 

2. Catholic Marriage Tribunals

 

 

3. Sikh Panj Piare (Five Beloved Ones)

 

 

4. Hindu Panchayat System

 

 

5. Christian Ecclesiastical Courts (Anglican Church)

 

 

 

Either allow  all of these or none of these.

 

Allowing all while denying all any supremacy over UK law is a sensible solution, balancing the rights and liberties of each of these religious groups while upholding the supremacy of British law.

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

We need to be clamping down on these as well......sharpish.

 

1. Jewish Beth Din (Beit Din)

 

 

2. Catholic Marriage Tribunals

 

 

3. Sikh Panj Piare (Five Beloved Ones)

 

 

4. Hindu Panchayat System

 

 

5. Christian Ecclesiastical Courts (Anglican Church)

 

 

 

You could always start a topic on that, however I don't think it would include these extremely abusive practices.

 

https://archive.christianconcern.com/our-concerns/islam/nine-year-old-british-girls-forced-to-marry-under-sharia

[Baht Simpson]

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/48352

 

Government responded

This response was given on 5 August 2013

As this e-petition has received more than 10, 000 signatures, the Government department have provided the following response:

Sharia 'law' has no jurisdiction in England and Wales and the Government has no intention to change this position.

 

Sharia principles are the code of personal religious law governing the conduct of Muslims. They can extend into all aspects of people's lives, but provided an activity prescribed by Sharia principles does not contravene the law of England and Wales, there is nothing that prevents people living by Sharia principles.

Britain has a proud tradition of religious tolerance, within the law. We expect individuals and groups to exercise their religious beliefs in a courteous and considerate manner and to respect the rights of others. 

 

[Edited for fair use policy]

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Eventually Britain will be ruled by a muslim political party and solely under sharia law.  All planned well in advance.

I highly doubt that but if it happens, fair enough. 

Out of interest, what do you think about Britain colonizing, and hence ruling,  Iraq, Egypt, UAE, Transjordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen,, etc?

Just asking as some think it is OK one way but not the other. 

[black tabby12345]

7 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Eventually Britain will be ruled by a muslim political party and solely under sharia law.  All planned well in advance.

 

Then will there be a rather Realistic Penalty for criminals？

According to the Sharia laws, hands of the thieves will be chopped off.

Will the social enemies be treated in the way they really deserve, instead of today's do-gooder manner?

If so, that's a kind of improvement.

Positive change from without.