Britain’s Sharia Courts and the Challenge of Religious Freedom

[cjinchiangrai]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That would be Italy and is almost certainly a misrepresentation of reality.

 

Technically the Vatican which is considered a separate country. They have been harboring indicted rapists for years.

[MangoKorat]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

When did any of that happen in the UK?

There have been honour killings in the UK but that's not the point.  The point is that these people wish to administer their own law, educate their children outside the legal UK system. 

[koolkarl]

On 12/24/2024 at 2:26 PM, black tabby12345 said:

 

Then will there be a rather Realistic Penalty for criminals？

According to the Sharia laws, hands of the thieves will be chopped off.

Will the social enemies be treated in the way they really deserve, instead of today's do-gooder manner?

If so, that's a kind of improvement.

Positive change from without.

 

If what I wrote comes true and I believe the odds are high, if you don't convert your religion, you may likely die as written in the Koran.  Then being a criminal is irrelevant. 

[MangoKorat]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Non of the various ‘religious courts’ hold any legal authority.

Correct, they have no legal authority and cannot administer law - so why do they exist?  Many muslims in the UK have no loyalty to the state, their loyalty is to Islam - I have personally heard that stated and its been demonstrated many times.

 

Do you seriously think that a muslim living in the UK would ignore a ruling made by a Shariah court and get away without punishment.

 

I think you would do well to read the statements contained in the link below - given by muslim women to a British parliamentary committe looking into the practices of Shariah Courts in the UK.

 

'The imam told us the divorce obtained in the English courts was not recognised and that
Lubna would have to seek a khula from a Sharia court.'

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/75313/pdf/

 

'The imam told us the divorce obtained in the English courts was not recognised' - who the hell do they think they are?

 

There is clear evidence in those statements that the extremists that run these 'Shariah Courts' - want no part in the British legal system and try to exert their own influence wherever they can.  This type of behaviour is why I say that there is no way that muslim and British cultures can co-exist peacefully. 

 

The extremist factions simply use the UK for what they can get from it. They have no intention at all of taking part in its culture, traditions and laws. Personally, I would deport people who come to live in the UK and then try to set up a completely different society,  living under a separate branch of law.  Its hardly surprising that there is so much conflict between muslim and native British populations where they crossover. 

 

The behaviour of these groups plays straight into the hands of the racists and provides them with ammunition.

 

Its time that these courts were banned completely. We have a legal system, there is aboslutely no need or place for a parallel legal entity.

[MangoKorat]

The more I read the article I quoted above, the angrier I get:

 

'6. The Sharia Court judge said I was to stay within the walls of my house for 40 days. I was
not allowed to answer the telephone, the front door or even to go into the garden during
this time because a man may see me! I felt like I was in prison. I was told to pray or look
after my grandchildren. What could I do but do as the Sharia judge said. My sons believe
they are right.
7. After 40 days were completed I began to go out again but I am only allowed to go to the
shops with my sons or my grandchildren. I am also allowed to visit one friend. She is a
widow too so there are no men in her house. It is from my friend’s house that I am making
this statement. I want people to know what is happening.
8. My husband has been dead for almost 4 months. I am now coming under a lot of pressure
from my sons to sell my house and give the money to them. They have been speaking to this
Sharia judge again. He told them that in English law I may own the house I live in but this is
not the right way in Islam. He said that my husband’s property should have been given to
my sons so that they could look after me and manage everything. Since the day the judge
said this, both my sons keep putting lots of pressure on me to sell the house and hand over
all the money to them. I cry every day because I do not know what is going to happen to me.
Where will I go? The judge said I should live with one of my sons in their house. I want to be
in my home'

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/75313/pdf/

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Technically the Vatican which is considered a separate country. They have been harboring indicted rapists for years.

It’s definitely not part of the UK.

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Correct, they have no legal authority and cannot administer law - so why do they exist?  Many muslims in the UK have no loyalty to the state, their loyalty is to Islam - I have personally heard that stated and its been demonstrated many times.

 

Do you seriously think that a muslim living in the UK would ignore a ruling made by a Shariah court and get away without punishment.

 

I think you would do well to read the statements contained in the link below - given by muslim women to a British parliamentary committe looking into the practices of Shariah Courts in the UK.

 

'The imam told us the divorce obtained in the English courts was not recognised and that
Lubna would have to seek a khula from a Sharia court.'

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/75313/pdf/

 

'The imam told us the divorce obtained in the English courts was not recognised' - who the hell do they think they are?

 

There is clear evidence in those statements that the extremists that run these 'Shariah Courts' - want no part in the British legal system and try to exert their own influence wherever they can.  This type of behaviour is why I say that there is no way that muslim and British cultures can co-exist peacefully. 

 

The extremist factions simply use the UK for what they can get from it. They have no intention at all of taking part in its culture, traditions and laws. Personally, I would deport people who come to live in the UK and then try to set up a completely different society,  living under a separate branch of law.  Its hardly surprising that there is so much conflict between muslim and native British populations where they crossover. 

 

The behaviour of these groups plays straight into the hands of the racists and provides them with ammunition.

 

Its time that these courts were banned completely. We have a legal system, there is aboslutely no need or place for a parallel legal entity.

Your whole post is an amalgamation of pejorative generalizations.

Wit respect the ambitions you allege I’ll refer you to my earlier post in which I observe the curious alignment amongst some between fearing a tyrannical theocracy taking over the UK and supporting the abolition of the Human Rights Laws and Conventions that prevent that ever happening.

 

“The behaviour of these groups plays straight into the hands of the racists and provides them with ammunition.”

 

I’ll take your word on what motivates racists, but that reads a lot like blaming the victim of racism for the racist’s hatred.

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your whole post is an amalgamation of pejorative generalizations.

Wit respect the ambitions you allege I’ll refer you to my earlier post in which I observe the curious alignment amongst some between fearing a tyrannical theocracy taking over the UK and supporting the abolition of the Human Rights Laws and Conventions that prevent that ever happening.

 

“The behaviour of these groups plays straight into the hands of the racists and provides them with ammunition.”

 

I’ll take your word on what motivates racists, but that reads a lot like blaming the victim of racism for the racist’s hatred.

 

 

 

You think you know better?  I used to live amongst these people. I deal with real world matters, not fanciful statements containing implict superiority.

 

Read the damned statements of the muslim women to the parliamentary committee instead of trying to appear to have superior knowledge via your mobile dictionary.

 

There is no human rights law that allows for a sham legal system to exist and attempt to dish out rulings and punishments. The behaviour of those courts in fact, violates the human rights of muslim women.

 

Again, you fail to see the wood for the trees.  The extremist elements of muslim society in the UK are not victims of racism - they are the creators of racism.  The very fact that these courts exist just gives racists like Tommy Robinson et al ammuntion with which to stir up hatred.  I am not anti muslim and I have no problem with muslims living in the UK.  I do however, have a problem with muslims setting up courts and subjugating women in the UK. I have a problem with laws being changed to accommodate non native immigrant groups and I have a problem with any religion attempting to impose its ways and beliefs on society in general.

 

Perhaps if you had the opportunity to listen to these people talk in private, to learn how they despise British ways and how the intend infiltrating further into the British political system in order to further their aims, you might begin to understand what is really going on.  I have had that opportunity and also gain a lot of information from a non practicing muslim girl who lives amongst a largely muslim population in a large UK city. When an Asian taxi driver states "we're going to take over this country you know" its not just idle talk.  He is of course wrong but he believes what he says and its illustrates the mindset.

 

It should be made clear to people of any race, creed or colour that when they are allowed the privilege of being allowed to settle in the UK, they must adopt British laws. When in Rome..................

 

 

[cjinchiangrai]

14 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

You think you know better?  I used to live amongst these people. I deal with real world matters, not fanciful statements containing implict superiority.

 

Read the damned statements of the muslim women to the parliamentary committee instead of trying to appear to have superior knowledge via your mobile dictionary.

 

There is no human rights law that allows for a sham legal system to exist and attempt to dish out rulings and punishments. The behaviour of those courts in fact, violates the human rights of muslim women.

 

Again, you fail to see the wood for the trees.  The extremist elements of muslim society in the UK are not victims of racism - they are the creators of racism.  The very fact that these courts exist just gives racists like Tommy Robinson et al ammuntion with which to stir up hatred.  I am not anti muslim and I have no problem with muslims living in the UK.  I do however, have a problem with muslims setting up courts and subjugating women in the UK. I have a problem with laws being changed to accommodate non native immigrant groups and I have a problem with any religion attempting to impose its ways and beliefs on society in general.

 

Perhaps if you had the opportunity to listen to these people talk in private, to learn how they despise British ways and how the intend infiltrating further into the British political system in order to further their aims, you might begin to understand what is really going on.  I have had that opportunity and also gain a lot of information from a non practicing muslim girl who lives amongst a largely muslim population in a large UK city. When an Asian taxi driver states "we're going to take over this country you know" its not just idle talk.  He is of course wrong but he believes what he says and its illustrates the mindset.

 

It should be made clear to people of any race, creed or colour that when they are allowed the privilege of being allowed to settle in the UK, they must adopt British laws. When in Rome..................

 

 

Look at the changes is Malaysia and Indonesia. There has been a slow and pernicious eroding of women's rights in both for years. All of it financed by the Saudis.

[Presnock]

On 12/24/2024 at 6:38 AM, wavodavo said:

That's what happens when you have open borders and have no control over who comes in. You have just look at the mess the U.S. is in with illegal aliens. Lucky they have got Trump to sort them out now .There is nothing wrong with immigrants coming in but they have to come in through the front door and be assessed first and the numbers regulated.

also, a change to the immigrants in that previously in the US, the they "melted" into different areas and became Americans, adhering to US laws.  Then zs more poured in, they learned that if they obtained enough immigrants voting, they could elect one of their own and then they began trying to change the laws to the Muslim traditional laws even though these laws were against US law.  Then courts decided to ease any restrictions on those laws claiming religious freedom until now sharia law though illegal seems to be spreading in some areas.  Time to outlaw any that do not adhere to US laws.  My feelings anyway as I am not religious nor feel that anyone should feel as I do.

[phetphet]

King Charles hasn't helped with changing one of his titles from Defender of The Faith, to Defender of  The Faiths. 

[cjinchiangrai]

22 minutes ago, Presnock said:

also, a change to the immigrants in that previously in the US, the they "melted" into different areas and became Americans, adhering to US laws.  Then zs more poured in, they learned that if they obtained enough immigrants voting, they could elect one of their own and then they began trying to change the laws to the Muslim traditional laws even though these laws were against US law.  Then courts decided to ease any restrictions on those laws claiming religious freedom until now sharia law though illegal seems to be spreading in some areas.  Time to outlaw any that do not adhere to US laws.  My feelings anyway as I am not religious nor feel that anyone should feel as I do.

Totally false, the US has never recognized religious courts or non-statute laws.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, phetphet said:

King Charles hasn't helped with changing one of his titles from Defender of The Faith, to Defender of  The Faiths. 

 

Actually a good move to contribute to cohesion, same as the Thai Constitution. The Thai King actually has an officially appointed Muslim Adviser (The Grand Mufti of Thailand)

 

https://riyadh.thaiembassy.org/th/page/29025-muslim-in-thailand-2?menu=5d80b46615e39c0a50006465

[Will B Good]

14 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

and gay people being thrown off high buidings is totally abhorent to most of the World's societies

 

 

What is even more horrific...if the reports are true.....is that the height from which they are thrown is carefully chosen.....not to kill them outright.

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Actually a good move to contribute to cohesion,

 

Cohesion ?
 

This sort of cohesion you mean, where men and womem join in equally ?
 

 

 

Beats me how anyone can try and stick up for such a Misogynistic religion / way of life.

 

And about those NHS workers you were shouting about. Here is one here

 

 

Just 1 of the reasons that muslim population in UK prisons is so high.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Cohesion ? This sort of cohesion you mean, where men and womem join in equally ?

 

<snipped for brevity> Do you enjoy being such a negative person? There will always be exceptions no matter the scenario.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

<snipped for brevity> Do you enjoy being such a negative person? There will always be exceptions no matter the scenario.

Hardly an exception, women are only given 50% of the worth of men and having a mistress is very common

 

 

‘In Sharia court women are seen as having half the worth of men’
Yesterday a petition calling for Sharia reform was delivered to No 10. Rosamund Urwin hears from the women trapped in 'marital captivity'

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/in-sharia-court-women-are-seen-as-having-half-the-worth-of-men-a3135346.html

 

[quake]

After round about,  4200 different religions.

No one has ever come up with the goods yet. 

 

[The Cyclist]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

<snipped for brevity> Do you enjoy being such a negative person? There will always be exceptions no matter the scenario.

 

Having worked across MENA for the best of 20 years, I have witnessed 1st hand many things that are negative about Islam.

 

You are confusing exceptions with " The Norm " If you are referring to the ambulance driver. Avail yourself to the amount of Muslims that have been removed from the the Police in the UK, especially the Met. That info is freely available to the general public, if you know where to find it.

 

I still await your answer on how you can be supportive of such a misogynistic religion / way of life.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims denied education.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims that cannot venture out without a male chaperone.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims that are forced to be covered head to toe when they leave the house.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims forced into marriage.

 

I hope you have an answer for all the female muslims that have lost a sister to the abomination that is called Honour Killings.

 

Need me to go on ?

[brewsterbudgen]

Sad to see the Islamophobia on this thread continuing unabated.  🙄

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Sad to see the Islamophobia on this thread continuing unabated.  🙄

I see plenty of support for stopping Shaira courts from challenging UK law and their rulings contravening the Equalities Act 2010. 

 

Where do you stand?

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, Neeranam said:

When? 

 

 

Here's a few. Merry Christmas:

 

Umayyad caliphate (661–750)
 

Spanish Umayyads (756–1031)

 

Almoravids and Almohads (about 1062–1147; 1130–1269)

 

Nasrids (1232–1492)

 

Ottoman empire (1299–1923)
 

 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Having worked across MENA for the best of 20 years, I have witnessed 1st hand many things that are negative about Islam.

 

Why on earth would you work for 20 years in MENAN. No doubt you have observed many negatives , but nothing to do with the OP. You would know or should, all the issues you talk to are created by Man.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

No doubt, but nothing to do with the OP. You would also know or should, all the issues you talk to are created by Man

 

Created by man, or created by a fairytale ?

 

So you think none of these are happening in the UK ?
 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims denied education.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims that cannot venture out without a male chaperone.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims that are forced to be covered head to toe when they leave the house.

 

I hope you have an answer for the millions of female muslims forced into marriage.

 

I hope you have an answer for all the female muslims that have lost a sister to the abomination that is called Honour Killings.

Still waiting on an answer or at least a coherent explanation

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

I still await your answer on how you can be supportive of such a misogynistic religion / way of life.

 

Should I make it easier for you ? You want to have a bash at explaining why you think it is not a misogynistic religion / way of life ?

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hardly an exception, women are only given 50% of the worth of men and having a mistress is very common

 

 

Snipped for brevity. Again Sharia Council judgements are not enforceable under UK Law. You've never had a "bit on the side" or used the services on a working girl  Mr Squeaky Clean.?

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Snipped for brevity. Again Sharia Council judgements are not enforceable under UK Law. You've never had a "bit on the side" or used the services on a working girl  Mr Squeaky Clean.?

Yawn, no I haven't but its not about me, its about my post I have quoted below.

 

When you have nothing, snip my post and instead go for the personal trolling attacks. Weak and more evidence of you attempting to deflect from the reality of Sharia courts.

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hardly an exception, women are only given 50% of the worth of men and having a mistress is very common

 

 

‘In Sharia court women are seen as having half the worth of men’
Yesterday a petition calling for Sharia reform was delivered to No 10. Rosamund Urwin hears from the women trapped in 'marital captivity'

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/in-sharia-court-women-are-seen-as-having-half-the-worth-of-men-a3135346.html

 

 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Created by man, or created by a fairytale ?

 

So you think none of these are happening in the UK ?
 

Still waiting on an answer or at least a coherent explanation

 

 

Should I make it easier for you ? You want to have a bash at explaining why you think it is not a misogynistic religion / way of life ?

 

No requirement for me to answer your demands. However, yes I am aware of the abuse as well as abuse by non Muslims. Ranting about it on this forum makes zero difference - why not return to the UK or wherever and work for a NGO or in Thailand for NGO for abused women - plenty of abused women in good old Buddhist Thailand.

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

I see plenty of support for stopping Shaira courts from challenging UK law and their rulings contravening the Equalities Act 2010. 

 

Where do you stand?

 

I stand with the facts.  There are no Sharia courts in the UK, other than in the fantasies of the Islamophobes.  Sharia councils can issue informal rulings on family/marriage matters but cannot overrule UK courts.

 

Hope this helps.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, simple1 said:

No requirement for me to answer your demands

 

Because you cannot answer it without destroying your credibility.

 

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Ranting about it on this forum makes zero difference

 

Ranting ? Now thats funny

 

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

why not return to the UK or wherever and work for a NGO or in Thailand for NGO for abused women - plenty of abused women in good old Buddhist Thailand.

 

Why would I want to do that.

 

The opening story is not about NGO's for abused women, in Thailand or anywhere else.

 

I believe that that the title is " Britains Sharia Courts and Religious freedoms "

 

1. Sharia Courts should not be happening in the UK. Full stop.

 

2. Muslim women do not appear to have much freedon under Islam.

 

Which make is a rather misgynistic religion / way of life.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

I stand with the facts.  There are no Sharia courts in the UK, other than in the fantasies of the Islamophobes.  Sharia councils can issue informal rulings on family/marriage matters but cannot overrule UK courts.

 

Hope this helps.

I gave you facts but you are denying them and standing with the abusers obviously. Links to evidence already supplied throughout the topic

 

https://x.com/SohailSNAhmed/status/1869741550122717468