Dispute with landlord re moving out/ accused of "breach of lease/contract"

[watthong]

I'm moving out of the apartment complex at the end of Jan, where I have rented one unit for the last 5 years. On 31st Dec 2024 I gave notice to management by doing the cancellation of the rental contract via their LINE account. I chose the date of the cancellation as 31 Jan 2025 so that fulfilled the one month advance notice requirement. They, the management, are supposed to reply with confirmation after 3 to 5 business days.

 

 A week prior to that, on 25th of Dec 2024  per normal schedule I received their monthly invoice, which included utilities for Dec and rental for Jan. On 05 Jan 2025, when payment is due, since I had not heard anything from management regarding my moving out/cancellation notice, I sent them an email as a reminder and asked them to send me a new invoice that reflect only the utilities part for Dec. as the Jan rent should be taken out of the last month rent that was part of my moving in deposit (advance rental + security deposit.)

 

Yesterday 08 Jan, still cricket from management I and my Thai partner went down to the front desk to meet with the on-site manager. She told me that I'm breaching the contract/lease before it expires mid May 2025 and therefore I still have to pay rent for Jan.

 

When I signed the original contract when moving in mid May 2020, it was explained to me that I was required to honor the one-year length of that contract, meaning if I move out before the end of the contract (it could have been just 6 mos if I remember correctly) then I will be breaching the contract and suffer the penalty (forfeiting the move in deposit). However, when the contract is renewed every year onward,  that penalty no longer applied. I could move out anytime as long as I gave the one month advance notice. This waiving of penalty was explained to me only verbally, and since this was the prevailing norm which I had also experienced when moving out of the previous rental I did not really eyeball the contract (which was written in Thai)  with their manager at the time (turn around of on site managers has been high lately.) The contract is renewed every year mid May and the last renewal was May 2024.

 

Yesterday at the meeting with the current manager when I raised this issue, she shook her head and pointed to the expiration date of the current contract/lease which is mid May 2025 and said if I moved out before that date it's a breach. In the meantime I still have to pay Jan rent. She also mentioned - the whole discussion was in Thai via my partner - that there was a memo regarding the penalty issue. Which again, if there was, has not been communicated to us prior. In any event they cannot just unilaterally going back on the original agreement. The fine print of the current contract says, in English: "If the lease term is completed there is a right to receive a refund of the security deposit." It says nothing about the "advance rental" part of the moving in deposit (advance rental + security deposit.)

So what is my option? The management is a big, faceless entity headquartered in downtown Bangkok and the on-site management pretty much serves as messenger with little authority. Thank you much in advance for any advice/input.

[JBChiangRai]

It all depends how many properties the landlord has.

 

If your landlord owns more than five properties, they are considered a "business operator" under the new rental laws. As a tenant, you have the right to terminate your lease by providing a 30-day notice without forfeiting your security deposit. This regulation is part of the measures to offer greater consumer protection to tenants.
 

New Thai Rental Law: What to Expect? - FRESH Property | Bangkok's property agent

[JBChiangRai]

As a further aside, if they have 5 or more properties and have been charging you more than the PEA/MEA rate for electric, you are due a refund for all the months since the new rules came in.

[watthong]

12 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

It all depends how many properties the landlord has.

 

If your landlord owns more than five properties, they are considered a "business operator" under the new rental laws. As a tenant, you have the right to terminate your lease by providing a 30-day notice without forfeiting your security deposit. This regulation is part of the measures to offer greater consumer protection to tenants.
 

New Thai Rental Law: What to Expect? - FRESH Property | Bangkok's property agent

 

They are big:  CHOD 

chanyawat dot com

https://www.chanyawat.com/

also

https://en.chodresidence.com/17676876/about-us

[mstevens]

This is an awkward situation. It sounds like there is a discrepancy between what is in the contract and what was explained to you when you first signed the contract. That makes it a bit of a "cluster". He said, she said!

 

I can't see them pursuing you in court for breach of contract of the written contract and seeking rental money through until the end of the contract in May. Similarly, it sounds like you're going to have a fight on your hands to get the deposit back for - in their minds - breaching the contract by leaving early.

 

Presumably the amount of the deposit is not of a sufficient amount to make it worthwhile to retain a layer. As such, it's all rather awkward.

[jasonsamui55]

It seems like you won’t be paying them anything further and also that you won’t be getting your security deposit back nor any refunds for overpayment on utilities markups, if any. I’d have purposely fallen a month behind on rent before giving them the 30 days notice, knowing in advance that wouldn’t be getting your security deposit back, as one rarely ever does. I’d just move out and not give them a forwarding address and call it a lesson learned. 

[kingstonkid]

While being right and getting what you deserve is great you have to ask if it is worth the agrivation and the money 

 

Might be just better to right it off and be done 

[watthong]

9 hours ago, mstevens said:

This is an awkward situation. It sounds like there is a discrepancy between what is in the contract and what was explained to you when you first signed the contract. That makes it a bit of a "cluster". He said, she said!

 

I can't see them pursuing you in court for breach of contract of the written contract and seeking rental money through until the end of the contract in May. Similarly, it sounds like you're going to have a fight on your hands to get the deposit back for - in their minds - breaching the contract by leaving early.

 

Presumably the amount of the deposit is not of a sufficient amount to make it worthwhile to retain a layer. As such, it's all rather awkward.

 

On 1/9/2025 at 9:09 AM, JBChiangRai said:

If your landlord owns more than five properties, they are considered a "business operator" under the new rental laws. As a tenant, you have the right to terminate your lease by providing a 30-day notice without forfeiting your security deposit. This regulation is part of the measures to offer greater consumer protection to tenants.
 

New Thai Rental Law: What to Expect? - FRESH Property | Bangkok's property agent

 

3 hours ago, jasonsamui55 said:

It seems like you won’t be paying them anything further and also that you won’t be getting your security deposit back nor any refunds for overpayment on utilities markups, if any. I’d have purposely fallen a month behind on rent before giving them the 30 days notice, knowing in advance that wouldn’t be getting your security deposit back, as one rarely ever does. I’d just move out and not give them a forwarding address and call it a lesson learned. 

 

Thank you all for your input. Much appreciated,

 

Practically speaking, I'm fine with letting go of the security deposit. My concern is with them being a large commercial entity, what they are going to attempt to "claw" back in view of my breach of contract (their interpretation.)

 

Are they going to present me with additional bills?  For example hold up the whole deposit which includes not just security but also advance rental, and insist that I pay rent for Jan? Possibly. Will they sue me and try to get rental money they won't be getting for the rest of the contract (up to May 2025)? I don't think so... Will they harass/prevent me from moving out? I don't think so neither. 

 

Right now I just want to keep things kosher on the legal side, meaning telling them that Jan rent should be covered by the advance rental  that was part of original deposit. Also I'm eager to pay utilities for both Dec and Jan. This was done by email on the day rent was due Jan 5.

 

Also I want to return the unit to them according to protocol. Meaning when vacating the unit, I will have them present and inspect that there are no damage made during my occupancy, beside the tear and wear of furniture which after 5 years are no longer in show room condition, which they weren't to begin with.

 

Following our meeting with her a couple of days ago, the on-site manager has sent an email to acknowledge my concern, with apology for the "delay", and to inform me that management is reviewing my request and will get back to me with "documentation." She still keeps harping about "breach of contract" by "early moving out," but I guess that's part of her job.

 

Overall they couldn't have asked for a better tenant, 5 years of prompt paying of rents, and no damage to property, no loud partying and I didn't even take up a parking space (having no car). If they want to bother me with further grandstanding, that is because they are a big commercial entity and think they can turn the laws in their favor. 

 

Also I believe the prevailing norm in Thailand is that after the duration of the original contract has been fulfilled, tenants can move out any time as long as they give one month advance notice. This was how it was done with my previous rental to this one. Unfortunately this clause was given to me verbally by management at the time and I did not ask to have it put down in writing, trusting that it was the norm in general.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

While being right and getting what you deserve is great you have to ask if it is worth the agrivation and the money 

 

Might be just better to right it off and be done 

 

Agree, perhaps better to not pursue refunds etc., just write if off.

 

But I wonder if it might be worthwhile to write a letter to yourself, for the manager to sign and give to you, indicating that rental totally ended on xx/xx/xxxx and no further rental payment is due after that date. 

[JBChiangRai]

The rental company know you can legally give one month's notice, I suspect the onsite manager doesn't know the law that came in over 6 years ago.

 

I would mention it to her in a nice way and ask her to seek guidance from HQ.

[J Branche]

Watthong 

 

I downloaded what appears to be the Thai Only Royal Gazette Decree and read the 3 page document regarding businesses (loosely interpret) renting housing to someone.

 

My opinion only is that Yes, you may be in breach of the contract.  (Some info refers to renting less than 6 months of a 1 year lease)

Decree states (Google Translated)The lessee does not default, owe rent and has a proper reason.

 

My opinion is the "and has a proper reason" is an additional requirement that needs to be meet.

 

I'm still deciphering but Proper Reason was Not defined.

 

The rental agency has a responsibility to advertise and attempt to rent the unit once the notice is received.

 

The consequences for "breach of contract" by tenant should be listed or defined in the current lease agreement.

 

The lease being in Thai Only is probably our responsibility to translate (Google Translate, Google Lens App may help)

 

My advice. Copy and print all emails or messages regarding notice, follow up notice and replies from management 

 

Understand the last month after notice is given they can contact you for showing the unit to prospective tenants.

 

Ask them to provide the specific page number, paragraph of the lease agreement they claim you have breached.  Ask them to provide the section for consequences of breach of contract that is in the current signed contract.

 

You owe Jan 2025 rent you gave 30 days notice Dec 31, 2024.

Advance rent was paid so default or breach for failure to pay rent is not valid.

 

Did you provide a proper reason for canceling the lease?

 

I understand any confusion and difficulties as it took me 45 minutes to find, verify something that would take 5 minutes in US.  Seems they need to publish the decree in Word, text, document form that can be easily translated to Lessees language.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[watthong]

29 minutes ago, J Branche said:

I'm still deciphering but Proper Reason was Not defined.

The rental agency has a responsibility to advertise and attempt to rent the unit once the notice is received.

The consequences for "breach of contract" by tenant should be listed or defined in the current lease agreement.

 

Consequence of breaching the contract:

-quote from the contract itself: "If the term lease is completed, there is a right to receive a refund of the security deposit." bold-faced by me.

 

-quote from manager email: "The lease agreement specifies an end date of June 30, 2025, but you have requested to terminate the contract and move out on January 31, 2025, which is an early termination. (Typically, this would result in the forfeiture of the security deposit.)" bold faced by me.

 

This is also the reason the manager gave for breach of contract when we met with her. I tend to agree with @JBChiangRai that this person is not up to date in her professional knowledge, or she was simply playing safe by  putting the tenant in the wrong regardless. She is 3 months on the job, first time I dealt with her and as I mentioned earlier, the turn over of her position has been alarmingly high of late.

 

Proper Reason for cancelling the contract:

Yes, there's a drop down menu in the contract cancellation request for this item. I chose the option "repatriation or foreign going back to own country" or something to that effect.
 

[J Branche]

Watthong 

 

Consequence of breaching the contract:

 

-quote from the contract itself: "If the term lease is completed, there is a right to receive a refund of the security deposit." bold-faced by me.

 

I'm providing my opinion from info provided, 12 years as landlord, and many real estate books written by NOLO.

 

The term is one year, once rent for May 2025 is paid then June 2025 rent is deducted from advance rent.  Security Deposit should be returned unless damages beyond normal wear and tear.

 

As you stated the drop down selection for repatriation is available so I would view this as Proper Reason.

 

So we need to look for any early cancelation info in lease agreements.  This may be a separate section anywhere in the lease if they are sketchy.

 

I think they understand you can leave the country and a court case may not be possible due to time zones, or legalities.  You seem like a reasonable person working to resolve the issue fairly.

[watthong]

32 minutes ago, J Branche said:

So we need to look for any early cancelation info in lease agreements.  This may be a separate section anywhere in the lease if they are sketchy.

I think they understand you can leave the country and a court case may not be possible due to time zones, or legalities.  You seem like a reasonable person working to resolve the issue fairly.

 

The contract before it being revamped since the last couple of years or so, was in Thai only and came in a thick heap. Since "modernization," I don't know when exactly since during the years they sent it over in pdf and I didn't even bother to print out, it now comes in English by request and consists of a mere 3 pages:

-first page invoice for deposit = security deposit + advance rental.
-second page the contract itself. There is no mention of cancellation, early or otherwise, anywhere. Except for what I quoted previously, the closest the contract comes to any reference to cancellation.
-last page: my "intention to renew" the contract.

 

I think this might be as simple as they wanting to keep the security deposit. If that's the case I'm willing to, as other folks have suggested,  write it off and not bother with further hassle. I'm sure when returning the unit to them management will come up with all sorts of reason to "use up" the security deposit. As I mentioned before, except wear and tear to the sofa, desk, etc per normal usage, there's nothing beyond everyday living. With your long experience as landlord, I'm sure there was times when you encountered repairs or damages exceeding the security deposit. Did you ever have to bill the moving out tenants any extra charges before closing the case? Are landlords allowed by laws to do so?

 

 

[J Branche]

No for damages.  Contract allows for inspection.  Inspect on 30 days notice and bill for depreciated value of damages fair value.  

 

Yes for unpaid rent.

Florida have judgement filed to record the amount with state website.  Head of household is excluded from collection and I was giving someone starting out a chance.  3 months rent lost.

[khunPer]

The law says:

 

"Chapter IV

Extinction of Contract of Hire+

Section 564. A contract of hire is extinguished at the end of the agreed period without notice.

 

Section 566. If no period is agreed upon or presumed, either party may terminate the contract of hire at the end of each period for the payment of rent, provided that notice of at least one rent period is given, but no more than two months notice need be given."

 

Link to translation Thailand Lease Law (tenancy): 
https://www.samuiforsale.com/other-miscellaneous/translation-thailand-lease-law.html

[kingstonkid]

On 1/10/2025 at 10:21 AM, scorecard said:

 

Agree, perhaps better to not pursue refunds etc., just write if off.

 

But I wonder if it might be worthwhile to write a letter to yourself, for the manager to sign and give to you, indicating that rental totally ended on xx/xx/xxxx and no further rental payment is due after that date. 

To me, you are making it more difficult than it needs to be.  Just leave and when you hand them the keys they should b\give you a note.  You might get them to sign for the keys but do it in Thai