American Building Standards and Wildfires

[Flyguy330]

So, we've all seen the destruction in California caused by the wildfires. Whole neighbourhoods literally levelled. Not a brick standing on top of another - except for the bizarre sight of brick chimney breasts rising up out of the flattened ash vista.

 

They're all so shocked.

The houses in the neighbourhood cost Millions!

Did I say houses? Man - I mean MANSIONS!! CELEBRITY MANSIONS!

All evaporated. Atomised. Gone.

How could it happen?!? It's so SHOCKING!

 

Well, if you've ever seen a building being erected in the US (besides skyscrapers) you'll probably have gazed in wonder at how they're built. All they consist of is wood.

Wood frame.

Wood exterior cladding.

Wood roofs, often with wood shingles for tiling.

Cardboard interiors - they call 'sheet rock', which is NOT rock. It's plasterboard, and easily lit up.

 

So when you have hundreds of MANSIONS (lol) crammed together in dry forest areas, and a spark ignites one - the whole lot can quickly go up too.

And wood likes to burn. And when it burns it burns completely. And all that's left is ash. As we can see.

 

There's a pic floating around of the Malibu beachfront, with ONE house standing, and all the next door multi million dollar 'mansions' burned to ash.

A MIRACLE! they say....

 

No it's not. It's basic common sense. It's the only house in the row made of concrete.

 

Why do Americans build these 5hitty structures? How can the 'building code' allow WOOD structures to be built in high fire risk zones? How can a pile of matchwood be called a MANSION, and carry million dollar valuations?

All fake, like so much else about the USofA.

[BritManToo]

When you build your houses and roofs of wood, fire is a problem.

[marin]

9 minutes ago, Flyguy330 said:

Why do Americans build these 5hitty structures? How can the 'building code' allow WOOD structures to be built in high fire risk zones? How can a pile of matchwood be called a MANSION, and carry million dollar valuations?

All fake, like so much else about the USofA.

They are safer during an earthquake. Hope you feel better now after your America clueless USA bashing. 

[OneMoreFarang]

And then there is of course the little issue that these fires happen again and again. And again and again in the same area.

Why are they surprised about fires this year when they had fires in the same locations for decades?

The land of the free... 

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, marin said:

They are safer during an earthquake. Hope you feel better now after your America clueless USA bashing. 

Probably best not to build in earthquake or volcanic areas of the world.

[dingdongrb]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Probably best not to build in earthquake or volcanic areas of the world.

...or floods....hurricanes.....tornados....blizzards....arid areas....   LOL, are you for real?

Maybe those in Japan should start migrating to the UK soon?

[anyone]

I sometimes watch the Discovery Channel, particularly shows like Flip or Flop where they restore houses. I was also amazed to learn that in the USA, there are woodsheds, while in England, there are red brick, gloomy houses.

[Lacessit]

In America and Canada, I have observed many houses have roofs made of pine or cypress shingles, which then have bitumen applied for water-proofing.

 

As a recipe for destruction by fire, it would be difficult to find conditions more ideal.

 

While a metal roof might not survive in high risk areas, it does have a much better chance of doing so.

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Probably best not to build in earthquake or volcanic areas of the world.

Also, probably best not to build where you can't own the land, like Thailand, for example. 

[Patong2021]

8 hours ago, Flyguy330 said:

So, we've all seen the destruction in California caused by the wildfires. Whole neighbourhoods literally levelled. Not a brick standing on top of another - except for the bizarre sight of brick chimney breasts rising up out of the flattened ash vista.

 

They're all so shocked.

The houses in the neighbourhood cost Millions!

Did I say houses? Man - I mean MANSIONS!! CELEBRITY MANSIONS!

All evaporated. Atomised. Gone.

How could it happen?!? It's so SHOCKING!

 

Well, if you've ever seen a building being erected in the US (besides skyscrapers) you'll probably have gazed in wonder at how they're built. All they consist of is wood.

Wood frame.

Wood exterior cladding.

Wood roofs, often with wood shingles for tiling.

Cardboard interiors - they call 'sheet rock', which is NOT rock. It's plasterboard, and easily lit up.

 

So when you have hundreds of MANSIONS (lol) crammed together in dry forest areas, and a spark ignites one - the whole lot can quickly go up too.

And wood likes to burn. And when it burns it burns completely. And all that's left is ash. As we can see.

 

There's a pic floating around of the Malibu beachfront, with ONE house standing, and all the next door multi million dollar 'mansions' burned to ash.

A MIRACLE! they say....

 

No it's not. It's basic common sense. It's the only house in the row made of concrete.

 

Why do Americans build these 5hitty structures? How can the 'building code' allow WOOD structures to be built in high fire risk zones? How can a pile of matchwood be called a MANSION, and carry million dollar valuations?

All fake, like so much else about the USofA.

 

In respect to the house. that was  relatively undamaged, it had a fire resistant roof (falling embers could not ignite the structure), and its  outer structure was built to resist a fire. Easily combustible vegetation was minimized.

 

National Homebuilder's Association has fought to prevent such requirements in high fire risk zones. 

 

The takeaway is that the fire damage and spread could have been minimized if the buildings were not  so easily ignited. Instead of realizing that the quality of construction is a factor, the  vested interests will seek to blame "politicians". No one in the building trades will accept their responsibility, nor will the people who demanded  the cheap quality of builds accept that they made a mistake. In the world today, it is easier to blame a third party rather than  take responsibility.

[mogandave]

Most of the homes that burned were 50-100 years old. 

[mogandave]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then there is of course the little issue that these fires happen again and again. And again and again in the same area.

Why are they surprised about fires this year when they had fires in the same locations for decades?

The land of the free... 

Not the same area again and again. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

 

[TCAK]

I am simply amazed on how there are so many experts on California construction in this forum. I just wonder how many of them have actually been to Southern California. And of the ones that have been there did they get off of the freeways?

 

 

Then in response to Flyguy330 that said "All fake, like so much else about the USofA."  Where are you from? And why do you make comments that you don't have clue about the subject. There is reason they build with wood and maybe you should Google it instead of spending your time yapping your mouth about things you don't understand. 

[BangkokReady]

Is part of having good building standards being capable of withstanding being set on fire?  That seems a little restrictive in terms of what materials you can use to build your house.

[simon43]

In respect to the OP's comments, I too have often wondered why many houses in the US are built contrary to the 3 little pigs story.

 

Generally, bricks and concrete don't burn - wood does!

 

... and according to my knowledge of tectonic plate movements, there are only a few areas in the US which are subject to bad earthquakes.

 

How about tornadoes in the central plains area?  So many house destroyed.  Oh!  They are typically made of wood, like a garden shed....

 

When it comes to building houses, you reap  what you sow.....

[phetphet]

19 hours ago, Flyguy330 said:

So, we've all seen the destruction in California caused by the wildfires. Whole neighbourhoods literally levelled. Not a brick standing on top of another - except for the bizarre sight of brick chimney breasts rising up out of the flattened ash vista.

 

They're all so shocked.

The houses in the neighbourhood cost Millions!

Did I say houses? Man - I mean MANSIONS!! CELEBRITY MANSIONS!

All evaporated. Atomised. Gone.

How could it happen?!? It's so SHOCKING!

 

Well, if you've ever seen a building being erected in the US (besides skyscrapers) you'll probably have gazed in wonder at how they're built. All they consist of is wood.

Wood frame.

Wood exterior cladding.

Wood roofs, often with wood shingles for tiling.

Cardboard interiors - they call 'sheet rock', which is NOT rock. It's plasterboard, and easily lit up.

 

So when you have hundreds of MANSIONS (lol) crammed together in dry forest areas, and a spark ignites one - the whole lot can quickly go up too.

And wood likes to burn. And when it burns it burns completely. And all that's left is ash. As we can see.

 

There's a pic floating around of the Malibu beachfront, with ONE house standing, and all the next door multi million dollar 'mansions' burned to ash.

A MIRACLE! they say....

 

No it's not. It's basic common sense. It's the only house in the row made of concrete.

 

Why do Americans build these 5hitty structures? How can the 'building code' allow WOOD structures to be built in high fire risk zones? How can a pile of matchwood be called a MANSION, and carry million dollar valuations?

All fake, like so much else about the USofA.

There is a Youtube video that answers the OP's question.

It allows them to build houses more quickly, and was the adopted method very early on due to one particular guy designing and building like that. 

 

There are other Youtube videos that  show Americans looking at houses built in the UK versus American homes. They are shocked when they see how long the UK  tile or slate roofs last compared to their shingle ones, which they have to renew approximately every ten years. Asking "Why don't we do that?"

 

Even more shocked when they see the thickness of our usually solid wood front doors compared to their flimsy plastic or compressed wood ones.

 

UK electricity 240V vs 120V. Safer UK plugs and sockets.

One of the reasons many US homes don't have kettles is it takes longer to boil water with 120V... That and they don't drink much tea. Mainly coffee.

They also can't understand why the UK doesn't have air con. 

[Yellowtail]

Warm in the winter, cool in the summer, quiet, ductwork in the walls, pipes and wire all inside the wall, one water heater with hot and cold water to every sink 

[impulse]

I'd guess it's all about the Benjamins. 

 

If you can build with wood and save 20-30% (or more) over a cement house, and a lot fewer than 1% of them burn down every year, you're still dollars ahead using wood.

 

Of course, that assumes a cheap and plentiful supply of wood.  I don't think that's the case in the UK.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

I'd guess it's all about the Benjamins. 

 

If you can build with wood and save 20-30% (or more) over a cement house, and a lot fewer than 1% of them burn down every year, you're still dollars ahead using wood.

 

Of course, that assumes a cheap and plentiful supply of wood.  I don't think that's the case in the UK.

 

Cement is much cheaper to build than a frame house. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

It amazes me Americans still put up with shingles on their roofs. Quite apart from the fire risk, they have to be replaced every ten years or so.

 

A Colorbond (TM) roof is guaranteed against perforation by rust for 36 years.

 

Orroroo is a small town of 600 people in South Australia with a semi-arid climate. There are galvanized roofs there over 100 years old, still in good condition.

 

I guess it comes down to tradition.

[Yellowtail]

Codes in the US are generally designed to save lives, not buildings. 

 

The Palisades fire:
Structures destroyed: 5,316
Acres burned: 17,234
Deaths: 2

 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It amazes me Americans still put up with shingles on their roofs. Quite apart from the fire risk, they have to be replaced every ten years or so.

 

A Colorbond (TM) roof is guaranteed against perforation by rust for 36 years.

 

Orroroo is a small town of 600 people in South Australia with a semi-arid climate. There are galvanized roofs there over 100 years old, still in good condition.

 

I guess it comes down to tradition.

Raw wood shingles have been illegal in California for a long time. 

 

All roofing materials must be fire rated. 

 

California has some of the strongest fire codes in the world. 

[mdr224]

20 hours ago, Flyguy330 said:

So, we've all seen the destruction in California caused by the wildfires. Whole neighbourhoods literally levelled. Not a brick standing on top of another - except for the bizarre sight of brick chimney breasts rising up out of the flattened ash vista.

 

They're all so shocked.

The houses in the neighbourhood cost Millions!

Did I say houses? Man - I mean MANSIONS!! CELEBRITY MANSIONS!

All evaporated. Atomised. Gone.

How could it happen?!? It's so SHOCKING!

 

Well, if you've ever seen a building being erected in the US (besides skyscrapers) you'll probably have gazed in wonder at how they're built. All they consist of is wood.

Wood frame.

Wood exterior cladding.

Wood roofs, often with wood shingles for tiling.

Cardboard interiors - they call 'sheet rock', which is NOT rock. It's plasterboard, and easily lit up.

 

So when you have hundreds of MANSIONS (lol) crammed together in dry forest areas, and a spark ignites one - the whole lot can quickly go up too.

And wood likes to burn. And when it burns it burns completely. And all that's left is ash. As we can see.

 

There's a pic floating around of the Malibu beachfront, with ONE house standing, and all the next door multi million dollar 'mansions' burned to ash.

A MIRACLE! they say....

 

No it's not. It's basic common sense. It's the only house in the row made of concrete.

 

Why do Americans build these 5hitty structures? How can the 'building code' allow WOOD structures to be built in high fire risk zones? How can a pile of matchwood be called a MANSION, and carry million dollar valuations?

All fake, like so much else about the USofA.

It doesnt really matter that much. 90% of the home value is the land

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and a reply has been removed

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Cement is much cheaper to build than a frame house. 

 

They probably should be, based on material cost.  But that's not what my sister and I found when we looked into building a beach home for (mostly) AirBNB in the same Galveston neighborhood where my brother lives in a 50+ year old cement house.  The concrete capable contractors came in with eye watering high quotes compare to the much more numerous wood frame contractors.  That may just be an anomaly in the area.  Or it may be supply and demand, where the concrete guys can name their price.  Like a Rolex costs more than a new scooter.

 

[impulse]

44 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

It doesnt really matter that much. 90% of the home value is the land

 

A few months before I left for Asia, I bought a vacant lot in a lake community in Texas for $350.  It was listed on EBay, and nobody was bidding.  So it was an impulse buy.  God, I wish I could build on it for $38.89.

 

To be fair, it's one of those lakefront communities from the free wheelin' '80s that never really took off.  But I have neighbors on all 3 sides and a lake and boat ramp about 200 yards away.

 

[novacova]

21 hours ago, Flyguy330 said:

Wood roofs, often with wood shingles for tiling.

 

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In America and Canada, I have observed many houses have roofs made of pine or cypress shingles, which then have bitumen applied for water-proofing.

Pine is not used for roof shingles, and highly doubt cypress is either in North America. In North America, the wood that is used for roof shingling is cedar, mostly red cedar because the phenols in the cedar resists decay and insects 

[Patong2021]

4 hours ago, TCAK said:

I am simply amazed on how there are so many experts on California construction in this forum. I just wonder how many of them have actually been to Southern California. And of the ones that have been there did they get off of the freeways?

 

 

Then in response to Flyguy330 that said "All fake, like so much else about the USofA."  Where are you from? And why do you make comments that you don't have clue about the subject. There is reason they build with wood and maybe you should Google it instead of spending your time yapping your mouth about things you don't understand. 

 

 I am familiar with one of the areas  where wild fires have occurred having worked in the Lake Forest- Laguna Hills- Laguna Beach area and been in and out for several years. The local county started using goats to control the  scrub foilage. Orange County is Republican gated  community  country and  relatively wealthy. It has many new property developments. The  developments which were mostly brick and that limited  combustible decorative vegetation did well.

 

Wood is a favourite construction material because it is lower cost. Some buildings are built with  concrete, and brick or other types of masonry and they are built to the  minimal state seismic resilience standards, which makes it a more expensive build than lumber. The longstanding myth is that  lumber homes are better suited for seismic prone regions. Unfortunately, what is  ignored is that most damage that occurs in residential areas after a strong earthquake is resulting fire.

 

The nathional Building trade association has blocked stricter fire resistance standards because it will reduce their profits and  increase the cost of builds. Many consumers don't want to know about managing their personal risk and just want the pretty house shown in the sales brochure.

 

The state finally passed some basic fire code improvements in 2022 that regulated the use of outdoor fires including BBQs, fire pits etc. and mandated some basic  changes like spark arresters in fireplaces. The protests that erupted were ridiculous. Cries of government interference  and of unamerican deep state meddling ensued. I draw your attention to this year's prohibition on the use of incendiary fireworks. How many hundreds of thousands of  people  ignored the  restrictions and set off their fireworks? 

 

Americans want  low cost everything and as a society are reluctant to pay for quality or durability.   

[Flyguy330]

Top post there, from a knowledgeable poster.

"Unfortunately, what is  ignored is that most damage that occurs in residential areas after a strong earthquake is resulting fire. "

Good point.