Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Neeranam]

What about remitting foreign funds into a joint account with one's wife?

What about remitting foreign funds into an account of your gardener/maid? 🙂  

[JimGant]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But they do have to power to make charges that could lead to prison, correct? 

Only if there's tax evasion involved -- and I think the consensus here is that, if you figure out on the back of an envelope that you owe taxes, best get a TIN, file a return, and pay tax due.

 

But, if the only reason is that you might need to file, and get a TIN -- is because your assessable income exceeds an arbitrary threshold of 60 or 120k -- then realistic people might conclude it would be better to play a round of golf than rattle around a TRD office for the better part of a day:

-- Particularly if your remittances are "average" (whatever one might conclude about that number) and would not bring attention to yourself.

-- And, based on the above, that TRD doesn't have you in their files, 'cause you don't have a TIN, you never filed a return, you don't have a "large" remittance number of interest, and they don't know if you've been here over 180 days (unless a "large" remittance maybe had them research this).

 

Anyway, why hyperventilate about not filing 'cause you exceeded an arbitrary threshold? They've never heard of you, so you won't be called in for a chat. And in the remote chance you are -- the fine is 2000bt -- a fine highly unlikely for being issued for not filing a blank tax return.

 

Just make sure you've got solid data on what remitted income is assessable, and what income is not assessable. Then, punch in the numbers -- and if taxes are due -- get a TIN and file. Otherwise, kick back and relax. Really -- until they start enforcing filing null tax returns -- why get stressed......?

[anchadian]

Latest, about an hour ago.

 

 

[redwood1]

32 minutes ago, Njoku said:

what he's trying to say is one day you visit your immigration centre to renew your long stay visa and wo and behold this particular centre not only requires a bank letter but a letter from there tax office as well...it might not be law now but the Pattaya one is well known for adding extras at there wim, and yeah one day even though your up on your soap box in utter denial over this they with a stroke of a pen legislate and give authority to the Tax office to "collect" in various ways. I wouldn't want to be trying to orginze years of lodging tax returns with one or two weeks left on my visa.

 

Dont know why it's so hard for people to accept, it's no big deal to lodge a tax return. Go home England will welcome you back..

 

Sir you have gone completely MAD......

 

If you think the Indian the Chinese or the Russian expats which VASTLY VASTLY out number the farang expats will be lifting so much as a finger to slave over or fill in tax forums or dig up bank records, or burn the midnight oil trying to figure out the vastly complicated DTAs.,or  having sleepless nights over accessible and non  accessible income...

 

Nope, they are not going to do Jack.....Not now not ever...

 

Its just a small number of western farang  who seem desperate to get in the tax system....And no one else..

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Only if there's tax evasion involved -- and I think the consensus here is that, if you figure out on the back of an envelope that you owe taxes, best get a TIN, file a return, and pay tax due.

 

But, if the only reason is that you might need to file, and get a TIN -- is because your assessable income exceeds an arbitrary threshold of 60 or 120k -- then realistic people might conclude it would be better to play a round of golf than rattle around a TRD office for the better part of a day:

-- Particularly if your remittances are "average" (whatever one might conclude about that number) and would not bring attention to yourself.

-- And, based on the above, that TRD doesn't have you in their files, 'cause you don't have a TIN, you never filed a return, you don't have a "large" remittance number of interest, and they don't know if you've been here over 180 days (unless a "large" remittance maybe had them research this).

 

Anyway, why hyperventilate about not filing 'cause you exceeded an arbitrary threshold? They've never heard of you, so you won't be called in for a chat. And in the remote chance you are -- the fine is 2000bt -- a fine highly unlikely for being issued for not filing a blank tax return.

 

Just make sure you've got solid data on what remitted income is assessable, and what income is not assessable. Then, punch in the numbers -- and if taxes are due -- get a TIN and file. Otherwise, kick back and relax. Really -- until they start enforcing filing null tax returns -- why get stressed......?

I'm wouldn't be worried except if I did know I was supposed to file and didn't.

I'm not there yet.

 

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, samtam said:

It seems fairly obvious that the tax forms need to be amended to take account the many variations of how remitted money is brought in,

Why? It's up to you to break out assessable remitted income from non assessable income. Then, only plug the assessable income into the tax return -- 'cause there aren't any lines for non assessable income. Subtract out TEDA a the 150k zero bracket -- and if you owe taxes, file. If not, consider ignoring those 60/120k thresholds -- and do this again next year.

[anchadian]

At this stage of the game.

 

Now run along, apply for your TIN and file a tax return.

 

More fool them.

[anchadian]

10 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Sir you have gone completely MAD......

 

If you think the Indian the Chinese or the Russian expats which VASTLY VASTLY out number the farang expats will be lifting so much as a finger to slave over or fill in tax forums or dig up bank records, or burn the midnight oil trying to figure out the vastly complicated DTAs.,or  having sleepless nights over accessible and non  accessible income...

 

Nope, they are not going to do Jack.....Not now not ever...

 

Its just a small number of western farang  who seem desperate to get in the tax system....And no one else..

Exactly.

[Njoku]

9 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Sir you have gone completely MAD......

 

If you think the Indian the Chinese or the Russian expats which VASTLY VASTLY out number the farang expats will be lifting so much as a finger to slave over or fill in tax forums or dig up bank records, or burn the midnight oil trying to figure out the vastly complicated DTAs.,or  having sleepless nights over accessible and non  accessible income...

 

Nope, they are not going to do Jack.....Not now not ever...

 

Its just a small number of western farang  who seem desperate to get in the tax system....And no one else..

Hahaha, bet your a climate denier, a flat earthed, covid was a ruse to inject people with tracking devices etc...

 

Hands on ears...it will all go away soon...

[JimGant]

34 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What about remitting foreign funds into a joint account with one's wife?

What about remitting foreign funds into an account of your gardener/maid?

Or, what about remitting funds into your condo developer, funds you obtained in a loan from a home country bank. Non income, of course. Other remitted funds, like to your gardener or joint account, may or not be assessable income -- that's for you to assess. Where it's remitted to -- is irrelevant. Thus, come tax time, have good records of the sources of your remitted income, figure out what's assessable, and should go on a Thai tax return, then figure if, after TEDA, whether or not this is taxable. If so, pay the taxes. Not too complicated.

[Yumthai]

49 minutes ago, Njoku said:

Dont know why it's so hard for people to accept, it's no big deal to lodge a tax return

Some people don't like to bend, others bend even further. To each their own taste.

[scottiejohn]

8 minutes ago, Njoku said:

Hands on ears...it will all go away soon...

I wish you would go away soon with all your made up scaremongering.

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, samtam said:

It seems fairly obvious that the tax forms need to be amended to take account the many variations of how remitted money is brought in, if that is the RD's intention. I'm not sure they really know what they want, judging by the lack of new forms and the variations in responses from RD officers and offices themselves. But here we are with 71 days to go until the deadline.

 

"if that is the RD's intention."  ... perhaps that is the key qualification.  Is the term " RD " just the senior managers in Bangkok, or is it all RD across the country?

 

And do the tax forms now properly reflect current policies?

 

As it stands today, I think one can make an argument that given Thai tax-code section-42 has a list of income that is not to be included in a tax calculation, ... then that could mean such income (noted in that article) is not required to be included in a tax return. 

 

So if that speculation correct, then looking at the list of exempt items, there is Item-17 in that article's list which notes income exempt under ministerial regulations should not be included in a tax calculation.

 

Does Paw-161/162 (covering pre-1-Jan-2024 income) and Royal Decree-743 (LTR visa)  and various country DTAs come under the terminology of ministerial regulations.

 

And does the DTA with one's source country exclude Thai taxation on one's relevant remitted income ?

 

If they do (and if foreign income excluded per DTA (this needs to be checked)), and if the above speculative interpretation is accurate, then there is no need to list such associated income in a Thailand tax return.  And if there is no need to list such in a Thai tax return, then there is also no need to list such income as exemptions in the exemption section (so then it matters not if such is not in the exemption section).  And if those incomes (covered as tax exempt under ministerial regulations) are one's only income either in Thailand, or remitted to Thailand, then there could be no need to submit a tax return.

 

Is that accurate?  I don't know.  It does have me wondering about this.

 

I am most curious to watch how this evolves over the course of the next few years.

[Robaht]

One thing I still don’t quite understand is the following question: Any savings existing pre-2024 that were transferred into Thailand during 2024  (bank wires, Wise, ATM, Credit Card payments paid off by pre-2024 savings) = they don’t count as accessible income? I thought there was a statement to do this prior to the end of 2023? Thanks!

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Njoku said:

We have a bird in Australia called an Ostrich it too hides its head in a hole in the ground when it fears/hears things it does not want to...

 

We all wish that you are right but theres nothing like knowing I wont have anything to worry about in the future hey?

Hmm, it seems that zoology isn't in your portfolio either. Why don't you trot off and talk about a topic you do know something about?

 

 'Contrary to the popular myth, ostriches do not bury their head in the sand when scared or frightened'. 

 

https://www.clevelandzoosociety.org/z/2020/03/11/truth-or-tail-do-ostriches-really-bury-their-head-in-the-sand-when-scared-or-frightened#:~:text=Contrary to the popular myth,blend in with the terrain.

[bkk6060]

24 minutes ago, Robaht said:

One thing I still don’t quite understand is the following question: Any savings existing pre-2024 that were transferred into Thailand during 2024  (bank wires, Wise, ATM, Credit Card payments paid off by pre-2024 savings) = they don’t count as accessible income? I thought there was a statement to do this prior to the end of 2023? Thanks!

No.

It is fairly simple.  If you had $100,000 in savings on Dec. 31 2023.  And you used that account to transfer $30,000 here or to pay something off here in 2024,

that is not accessible income.

 

[Badrabbit]

If you want to worry big time about tax just read all the comments.

 

[JNASHDDS]

can anyone recommend an English speaking accountant in Chiangmai?

[Sir Dude]

All a load of hysteria... yes, get TIN but the chances of you being investigatate are tiny. All you do is submit a return and they believe it or they don't... I can't believe they have the resourses to investigate every foreign national on this, no way.

[oldcpu]

49 minutes ago, Robaht said:

One thing I still don’t quite understand is the following question: Any savings existing pre-2024 that were transferred into Thailand during 2024  (bank wires, Wise, ATM, Credit Card payments paid off by pre-2024 savings) = they don’t count as accessible income? I thought there was a statement to do this prior to the end of 2023? Thanks!

 

My understanding is that in September-2023, when Paw.161 came out, that RD 'order' / 'interpretation' noted all remitted assessable income into Thailand is to be included in the Thailand income tax calculation (if one is a Thailand tax resident), effective 1-January-2024.

 

At that point, in the days after that, to manage our tax exposure, many of us brought savings into Thailand asap (in remaining days of September/October and part of November-2023).  This is likely what you are referring to. And with only Paw.161 by itself, that made sense.

 

Then later on 20-November-2023, Paw-162 came out, stating Paw.161 did not apply to any income earned/saved from foreign sources prior to 1-January-2024.

 

Hence paw-161/162 in combination, suggest any income prior to 1-Jan-2024 can be brought into Thailand anytime in the future and not be susceptible to Thai taxation.

 

Note this is my view/understanding, and I am by no means a tax expert.

[TheAppletons]

Holy mother of Jesus driving a taco truck.

 

So much misinformation, so much hysteria, so many clueless fools offering opinion as fact.

 

If there was ever a reason for this website to be shut down, it would be this thread.  

 

LMAO.  

[The Cyclist]

Thai Tax Attorney 

 

At around the 10 minute mark she lays out the criteria for filing.

 

1. In Thailand 180 days or over

 

2. Income earned and remitted in 2024

 

3. File a tax return.

 

Section 40 ( 1 ) says : Assessable income is income of the following categories

 

Quote

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.⁴

 

 

That reads to me that if you remit a Pension in 2024 then you need to file a tax return.

 

A DTA will then determine if Thailand has any taxation rights.

 

TEDA's and Pension Credits will determine whether you actually have any tax to pay.

 

 

 

You will need to watch the whole video to see what it says about other types of income.

[Expat68]

58 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

No.

It is fairly simple.  If you had $100,000 in savings on Dec. 31 2023.  And you used that account to transfer $30,000 here or to pay something off here in 2024,

that is not accessible income.

 

I have more savings in a bank account in the UK than I send to Thailand per year, even though my income is paid into the said account. Am I subject to tax?

[redwood1]

27 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Thai Tax Attorney 

 

At around the 10 minute mark she lays out the criteria for filing.

 

1. In Thailand 180 days or over

 

2. Income earned and remitted in 2024

 

3. File a tax return.

 

Section 40 ( 1 ) says : Assessable income is income of the following categories

 

 

 

That reads to me that if you remit a Pension in 2024 then you need to file a tax return.

 

A DTA will then determine if Thailand has any taxation rights.

 

TEDA's and Pension Credits will determine whether you actually have any tax to pay.

 

 

 

You will need to watch the whole video to see what it says about other types of income.

 

Bla Bla Bla a business that makes their living,filing tax returns... Recommends everyone file a tax return (and they will do it for a price of course).......lol.......You cant make this stuff up...

[NoDisplayName]

30 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

At around the 10 minute mark she lays out the criteria for filing.

 

She is wrong.

No mention of assessable vs. non-assessable.

No mention of threshold filing limit.

 

31 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

That reads to me that if you remit a Pension in 2024 then you need to file a tax return.

 

You read that wrong.

Only an assessable pension, if not exempt under DTA.

 

32 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

TEDA's and Pension Credits will determine whether you actually have any tax to pay.

 

"Pension credits" do not exist on the tax forms.

 

33 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

You will need to watch the whole video

 

That's crazy talk, ok, guy.

I couldn't take more than 60 seconds of her nonsense, ok, guy.

[Njoku]

9 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

I have more savings in a bank account in the UK than I send to Thailand per year, even though my income is paid into the said account. Am I subject to tax?

I brought 850k in in just one transaction last year, from my understanding if it was from savings which it was its exempt from becoming taxable, of course if they ask to see your local bank statements they will see the 850k they will expect you to be able to prove that funds did come from savings from AU, I printed out my AU bank statement for 2023 showing the funds and the withdrawal, if asked if thats enough is the 65,000$ question, knowing there affinity with paper work im pretty sure there likely to ask me to get a bank letter from my AU bank to verify or something along those lines.

 

If they audit you your going to have to be able to prove it, because at some point savings will have gone and it becomes  saved income from Jan 1 2024.

 

The TGF who is an accountant when I asked said she does not need to supply bank statements when lodging her tax return, but all her bank etc financials well most of them are linked to the revenue department which is the same back in AU (for those that thought they were living in sleep hollow even Thais own computers) she also said she can claim all the insurance policies she has, saving and medical, she will ask the revenue department when I apply for a TIN soon if I can claim the premium I payed for my hospital insurance, I will ask or she will what else is claimable in my cirumstances, I was quite surprised what miss can claim.

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

She is wrong.

No mention of assessable vs. non-assessable.

No mention of threshold filing limit.

 

What part of this are you having difficulty in understanding ?

 

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories 

Quote

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment

 

1. Tax Resident - Check.

 

2. Remit a Pension - Check

 

3. File  tax return - Check

 

17 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Only an assessable pension, if not exempt under DTA.

 

There is no Assessable or Exempt contained in DTA's, they detail primary and secondary taxing rights.

 

20 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

"Pension credits" do not exist on the tax forms.

 

But they do in the Revenue Code. Which has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Sir Dude said:

I can't believe they have the resourses to investigate every foreign national on this, no way.

Especially if they don't get a TIN! 

[Robaht]

On 1/18/2025 at 6:28 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

PN91 is for income ONLY from employment. and is considerably shorter than the PN90 which is for income from employment AND other sources.  Interest and dividends and rental income is all other than employment.  Refund of withholding tax is only possible with PN90.

 

Think of the PN91 as sorta kinda like filing the old 1040EZ, which was a simplified version of the more complicated 1040 long-form tax return.

 

No need to declare all ATM and debit card remittances.  It comes down to the source of the funds.  It's not the ATM withdrawal itself that would be taxed, it's the current year income you're bringing in through the ATM.

 

Are you bringing in enough assessable funds to meet the requirements that you must file?

In your opinion, if I transferred in 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But they do have to power to make charges that could lead to prison, correct? 

I guess stressmonkeys gonna havta stress...