Should income for visa 800K (retired) or 400K (married) not be taxable?

[bkk6060]

The use of an agent for extensions should be interesting.   1,000's use agents. Lets be honest, each year they put 800k into the account for less then one minute to show the 800k.  The expat is not transferring accessible income, or any monies belonging to him.  I guess, it could be considered a quick loan from the bank or agent? How will/should this be documented for tax purposes, if at all?

[Ben Zioner]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

Still, what about the transfers into your Thailand bank account to fulfill this visa requirement? Will they be taxed?

Yes why not? If earned after Dec 31, 2023 AND transferred while being tax resident.

[Briggsy]

6 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Bank account, where interest was deducted at source at 15%.

Thanks.

 

So no remittance in the tax year 2024. Therefore no consideration on any foreign remitted income.

 

You only need to consider Thai income such as bank interest and dividends. If this is under the threshold, i.e. your assessable income is less than120,000 THB as an individual or 220,000 THB as a joint filing married couple, you don't even need to file a return.

 

You stated that you have no earnings in Thailand.

 

Life becomes easier when the panic-mongers are put to one side and the situation is analysed clearly.

[Nabbiex]

8 hours ago, Briggsy said:

This is a flawed thread. The money in the bank is an ASSET. Income tax by its very name does not tax ASSETS, it taxes INCOME.

 

The interest on your 800K / 400K is taxed.

 

Yes, this obviously makes sense but what I mean is the expat receives the income & his/her aims is to transfer from income to assets. That is why I feel this income type should be non-taxable - just like other insurances, etc are entitled to claim the tax refunds.     

[topt]

11 minutes ago, Nabbiex said:

 

Yes, this obviously makes sense but what I mean is the expat receives the income & his/her aims is to transfer from income to assets. That is why I feel this income type should be non-taxable - just like other insurances, etc are entitled to claim the tax refunds.     

Hopefully I have not misunderstood you but apologies if I have.

For a start you don't pay 800/400k to anybody. It stays with you so not at all like an insurance payment.

Plus you can only claim up to a relatively low amount and it has to be a Thai based company insurance premium - International policies/premiums are not included.

 

Also, being polite, it doesn't matter what you "feel" - it is based on the Thai tax code and it is not something that is negotiable or even debatable......

[topt]

9 hours ago, Briggsy said:

If it is a state pension such as the UK State Pension, it is deemed a social security payment and not taxable income in Thailand.

 

Can I ask where you get that from? 

It is very clear in the HMRC digest that the UK state pension can be taxed in Thailand as their is no relief in the DTA. - note I say can.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

Go to page 34 Thailand and note 4 on the far right.

 

This has been extensively discussed in the past so I would be interested where your statement is codified in the TRD regs?

[UKresonant]

16 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I used to, so my questions are mostly hypothetical in regards to staying in Thailand in the future, and particularly in regards to visas:

 

1. Should I transfer money to Thailand, or bring it in cash?

2. Or, should I limit my stays to 179 days or less/year?

3. Which long-term visa (e.g. 'Retirement') should I get in regards to this new tax situation?

1. Yes transfer at least a credible base amount. I always have some cash in Baht in my pocket..

2. As long as it remains.remittance based, I think every second.year, or perhaps even every 3rd. ( If it goes global Yes.)

3. Visa, don't know. I find the detail of many Visas is like shifting sands even if the core remains.fairly stable.

 

I'm always in mostly hypothetical mode, e.g.

 

£11700 base amount (all taxed) in UK

and 480k THB transferred to Thailand p.a.. 

£### mobile pocket money. Perhaps only transferred to Thailand when generated as non tax resident in TH.

 

UK  tax year 6th April-5th April >183 days at the end of the day.

Thailand tax year 1st Jan to 31st Dec >179 Days if no Thai earnings. Base amount continuous.

Extra Transfers to Thailand  after >183 days in UK  idealy, preferably within 6th April to 31st Dec.

 

(Will they ever issue the non-O Multi again, though the evisa is pretty quick)

 

But life not bonded to tax planning!

 

[Briggsy]

12 hours ago, Nabbiex said:

Yes, this obviously makes sense but what I mean is the expat receives the income & his/her aims is to transfer from income to assets.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Your post makes no sense, sorry.

 

Please specify precisely what the income is and when it was received.

[Briggsy]

12 hours ago, topt said:

 

Can I ask where you get that from? 

It is very clear in the HMRC digest that the UK state pension can be taxed in Thailand as their is no relief in the DTA. - note I say can.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

Go to page 34 Thailand and note 4 on the far right.

 

This has been extensively discussed in the past so I would be interested where your statement is codified in the TRD regs?

The decision as to what is exempt and what is assessable under Thai Income Tax legislation is first and foremost laid out in the Thai tax legislation NOT the DTA.

 

Revenue Code (Official English Translation)

Chapter 3 Income Tax

Section 42 Exempt Income

Paragraph 25 Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

 

That is why the Revenue Department repeatedly states foreign State Pensions are exempt.

 

Use the Thai tax legislation to guide you.

[CFCol]

23 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Remittances are classed as foreign income brought into Thailand. However, if the foreign income was received earlier than the last full tax year, currently earlier than 1 Jan 2024, it is not taxable income.

 

If it is a state pension such as the UK State Pension, it is deemed a social security payment and not taxable income in Thailand.

 

If the remitted income was received after 1 Jan 2024 and is classed as taxable income in Thailand, you will be able to deduct any foreign tax paid from any Thai tax bill, usually leaving nothing left to pay.

 

This is why I said this thread is flawed because the OP clearly has no idea what he is talking about and it will simply sow complete confusion.

It is my understanding from the data that government service pensions are exempt but uk old age pensions are not.

[Briggsy]

35 minutes ago, CFCol said:

It is my understanding from the data that government service pensions are exempt but uk old age pensions are not.

•  

 

The decision as to what is exempt and what is assessable under Thai Income Tax legislation is first and foremost laid out in the Thai tax legislation NOT the DTA.

 

Revenue Code (Official English Translation)

Chapter 3 Income Tax

Section 42 Exempt Income

Paragraph 25 Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

 

That is why the Revenue Department repeatedly states foreign State Pensions are exempt.

 

Use the Thai tax legislation to guide you.

[bamnutsak]

I can't see this exemption being allowed. It's a bit like the condo funding.

 

Adding exemptions just for foreigners  (parked visa money, condo purchases) seems unlikely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonsin]

On 1/27/2025 at 11:39 AM, Nabbiex said:

The taxable proceeding has begun for most expats this year. The reason I am quite curious is that I can see non-taxable imply for some conditions like health ins, life insurance, etc but no information about visa 800K or 400K some expats need to put in the deposit saving. Should the income for putting 800K or 400K for visa requirement be non-taxable as well?  Has anyone thought about this issue yet? 

 

    

 

 

 

 

[Jonsin]

On 1/27/2025 at 11:39 AM, Nabbiex said:

The taxable proceeding has begun for most expats this year. The reason I am quite curious is that I can see non-taxable imply for some conditions like health ins, life insurance, etc but no information about visa 800K or 400K some expats need to put in the deposit saving. Should the income for putting 800K or 400K for visa requirement be non-taxable as well?  Has anyone thought about this issue yet? 

 

    

Got a friend wondering the same thing!!

 

 

 

[CFCol]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

•  

 

 

The decision as to what is exempt and what is assessable under Thai Income Tax legislation is first and foremost laid out in the Thai tax legislation NOT the DTA.

 

Revenue Code (Official English Translation)

Chapter 3 Income Tax

Section 42 Exempt Income

Paragraph 25 Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

 

That is why the Revenue Department repeatedly states foreign State Pensions are exempt.

 

Use the Thai tax legislation to guide you.

That's all very well but state pensions in the UK do not come from "social security funds".

[Briggsy]

8 minutes ago, CFCol said:

That's all very well but state pensions in the UK do not come from "social security funds".

I beg to differ. We will have to disagree.

 

Posters on earlier threads have asked for clarification from The Revenue Department and they were informed that UK State Pension (and similar state pensions in other countries) are exempt in line with the legislation I have quoted. This ruling came from the The Revenue Department, so it was reported.

[suzannegoh]

On 1/27/2025 at 11:53 AM, KhunLA said:

Obviously, that's going to depend on the source, and DTA with TH from home country, if the funds haven't been sitting there since the previous year.   Some people do just leave the funds put, if not needed.

What if you're drawing funds from an account that contains both old and new money.  In that case, how would it be determined if the money that you brought into Thailand was already taxed?

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

What if you're drawing funds from an account that contains both old and new money.  In that case, how would it be determined if the money that you brought into Thailand was already taxed?

Y'all asking the wrong person that question.  Although I think, may be wrong, that was addressed in the info provided by TRD.  Something I didn't, don't research as doesn't affect me.

 

I'm a Yank, and as far as TRD is concerned, all my funds coming in are exempt to taxes.  With a paper trail every month.  Same paperwork I would use for retirement visa extension at Imm.  All coming from Fed Reserve / Soc Sec benefits, direct deposit to BBL.

[Jumbo1968]

Tax experts out in force on the forum who have no knowledge of the Thai taxation system added and abetted  by foreign accountants who are operating illegally in Thailand scaremongering foreigners.

[Surasak]

On 1/27/2025 at 12:53 PM, StayinThailand2much said:

 

I brought it in 15 years ago. Can't prove it, cause I don't have the old bankbook anymore 

Your bank could prove it, without any problems.

[Surasak]

On 1/27/2025 at 1:23 PM, Will B Good said:

 

Sorry my twisted sense of humour.....I thought you might be interested in purloining his 800k if it's under his bed?....555

Many a true word spoken in jest!

[SiSePuede419]

Don't know how taxes are filed in the UK or EU but in America you get a credit when you file in 2025 for "TaxYear2024" for the Thai taxes paid.

 

Death.  Taxes*

 

*Does not apply to the Rich who can offshore income in tax evasion "Tax shelter" countries like North Dakota. 

 

Yes, in the United States, unused foreign tax credits (FTC) can be carried forward to future years if they are not fully used in the current tax year. Here’s how it works:

 

Foreign Tax Credit Carryover Rules:

 

1. Carryforward Period: Unused foreign tax credits can be carried forward for up to 10 years.

 

2. Carryback Period: Additionally, they can be carried back to the immediately preceding tax year if eligible.

 

How It Works:

If the foreign taxes you paid exceed the Foreign Tax Credit limit for the current year, the excess amount becomes unused.

 

You can apply this unused credit to a prior year (if eligible) or future years within the 10-year period to reduce your U.S. tax liability.

 

Key Considerations:

Limitation on Credit: The FTC is limited to the lesser of the foreign taxes paid or the proportionate U.S. tax liability on foreign-sourced income.

 

Recordkeeping: Keep thorough documentation, as you will need to calculate and report the carryover amounts each year using IRS Form 1116.

 

This provision ensures that taxpayers who pay foreign taxes don’t lose the benefit if they can't use the

credit in a single year.

 

[J Branche]

6 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

I can't see this exemption being allowed. It's a bit like the condo funding.

 

Adding exemptions just for foreigners  (parked visa money, condo purchases) seems unlikely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A tax strategy is bring the Visa, Condo, large amount in when you are in Thailand 179 days or less. Not a Thai Tax Resident.

The other strategy is POR 162 that allows Accessable Income earned prior to Jan 1 2024 to be remitted Tax Free in 2024 or following years

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, J Branche said:

A tax strategy is bring the Visa, Condo, large amount in when you are in Thailand 179 days or less. Not a Thai Tax Resident.

The other strategy is POR 162 that allows Accessable Income earned prior to Jan 1 2024 to be remitted Tax Free in 2024 or following years

People should go with the 179 days method, at least you have proof you are not a resident of Thailand for tax purposes.

[NoDisplayName]

14 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Paragraph 25 Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

 

That only applies to Thai social security payments.

 

Foreign social security and foreign pensions are covered under the DTA's.

 

12 hours ago, Briggsy said:

That is why the Revenue Department repeatedly states foreign State Pensions are exempt.

 

They don't say that. 

[NoDisplayName]

On 1/27/2025 at 12:53 PM, StayinThailand2much said:

 

I brought it in 15 years ago. Can't prove it, cause I don't have the old bankbook anymore 

 

The money has been sitting in your bank account for fifteen years.

 

Where was the money 31 Dec 2023?......Sitting in your account, cash in the bank.

 

Nothing remitted in 2024.  Nothing to declare, nothing to tax.

 

Bank has been withholding interest at 15% for 15 years.

 

Why not file a null return for 2024 and get your withholding tax refunded.  While you're at it, you can file 2022 and 2023 and get that tax refunded as well.

 

You'll pay a 200 baht fee one time for the late filings.

 

You'll need to provide bank withholding statements for each year, available from your bank free of charge.

 

If you're notinthailandtoomuch now, file when you arrive.

 

 

[bamnutsak]

11 hours ago, J Branche said:

A tax strategy is bring the Visa, Condo, large amount in when you are in Thailand 179 days or less. Not a Thai Tax Resident.

The other strategy is POR 162 that allows Accessable Income earned prior to Jan 1 2024 to be remitted Tax Free in 2024 or following years

 

 

I read the OP's 'idea' as making a 400k/800k-supporting remittance tax-exempt irrespective of tax residency/pre-2024 'savings'.

 

Your strategies are good work-arounds.

 

 

[OneManShow]

On 1/27/2025 at 12:33 PM, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Still, what about the transfers into your Thailand bank account to fulfill this visa requirement? Will they be taxed?

You need to have some supporting documents (perhaps bank statement that shows that the fund source is from your existing savings before end of Dec 2023). 
 

[Phulublub]

On 1/27/2025 at 12:36 PM, Briggsy said:

If it is a state pension such as the UK State Pension, it is deemed a social security payment and not taxable income in Thailand.

Not true.  The UK state pension (unlike US) is not covered byt he DTA.

 

PH

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/30/2025 at 12:58 AM, Phulublub said:

Not true.  The UK state pension (unlike US) is not covered byt he DTA.

 

PH

Australia's aged pension is the same.  It's not covered by the DTA.