How many people actually know the real history of Ukraine and Zelensky?

[spacex]

 

[Jingthing]

Russian propaganda everywhere you turn these days.

[KhunLA]

Going by their postings, apparently very few.  Does explain a lot, as their knowledge seems to be from MSM 

[oxo1947]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Russian propaganda everywhere you turn these days.

 

These papers that were declassified in 1991 do not come from Russia  propaganda Jingthing but from the American Goverment.

Not An Inch to the East--was all the headlines when not only the the wall came down, but Russia  under Gorbachev withdraw  all troops from every Eastern Euro country.

Under a promise that they would not join NATO

 

 

Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu).

 

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, 

Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner

 

[save the frogs]

yeah, that must be it then. zelensky bad, putin good. not the other way around.

you can tell from the photo that he's a money grubber. and that photo was not AI generated.

 

nobody knows what's really going on. the news is smoke and mirrors. 

 

there's always 3 sides to every story.

 

and the 3rd side is probably the real story that you will never hear. 

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

 

These papers that were declassified in 1991 do not come from Russia  propaganda Jingthing but from the American Goverment.

Not An Inch to the East--was all the headlines when not only the the wall came down, but Russia  under Gorbachev withdraw  all troops from every Eastern Euro country.

Under a promise that they would not join NATO

 

 

Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu).

 

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, 

Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner

 

Excellent post ... here's a reality check for those that think RU was, is the aggressor in Europe.   As every year, eastward movement and more nukes placed on RU's border.

 

 

[oxo1947]

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

yeah, that must be it then. zelensky bad, putin good. not the other way around.

you can tell from the photo that he's a money grubber. and that photo was not AI generated.

 

nobody knows what's really going on. the news is smoke and mirrors. 

 

there's always 3 sides to every story.

 

and the 3rd side is probably the real story that you will never hear. 

 

I didn't comment on Zelensky---I really dont know any truths about him----but your right its usually  never 100% one side

[jaywalker2]

7 hours ago, spacex said:

Zelensky was set up. Trump and Vance were playing good cop, bad cop. I couldn't believe how childish it was. "Have you thanked President Trump? Have you shown your gratitude? Bad boy, bad boy."

 

[Lacessit]

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Excellent post ... here's a reality check for those that think RU was, is the aggressor in Europe.   As every year, eastward movement and more nukes placed on RU's border.

 

 

Simple people don't understand after 1990, every former Soviet bloc country wanted to join NATO out of fear of being absorbed into the Russian Federation. They had had enough of the living standards of a command economy.

 

Reality check - Ukraine did not join NATO, and it gave up its nukes in exchange for guarantees of territorial sovereignty under the Budapest Memorandum, signed by Putin.

 

Trying to make Russia a victim of big bad NATO won't fly. Russia was making a motza off oil and gas before the second invasion.

 

Everyone wants to revise history nowadays.

[Harrisfan]

7 hours ago, spacex said:

 

He even looks like a crook.

[Harrisfan]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Simple people don't understand after 1990, every former Soviet bloc country wanted to join NATO out of fear of being absorbed into the Russian Federation. They had had enough of the living standards of a command economy.

 

Reality check - Ukraine did not join NATO, and it gave up its nukes in exchange for guarantees of territorial sovereignty under the Budapest Memorandum, signed by Putin.

 

Everyone wants to revise history nowadays.

Nobody uses nukes

[rough diamond]

50 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Nobody uses nukes

The USA has!

[Harrisfan]

Just now, rough diamond said:

The USA has!

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Harrisfan said:

Nobody uses nukes

Putin has changed Russian law to enable first strike capability. Formerly it was only in response to attack by nukes.

 

Please keep up.

[Harrisfan]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Putin has changed Russian law to enable first strike capability. Formerly it was only in response to attack by nukes.

 

Please keep up.

When did Putin use them?

[Purdey]

Number of Russians lying online about Zelensky had increased. 

 

[pegman]

That part of the world pretty much everyone is corrupt. 

[impulse]

Here's a giveaway.  If they believe and insist that the kerfuffle started in 2022 (or even in 2014), they can't be reasoned with.

 

[impulse]

9 hours ago, Purdey said:

Number of Russians lying online about Zelensky had increased. 

 

 

Wow.  His Florida place is worth almost 2x what the judge claimed that Mar-a-Lago is worth.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't claim to know Zelensky's life story, but he looks to me like an actor playing a war time leader in that silly cosplay uniform, oh wait.............

[spacex]

Here's a little more info about Victoria Nuland and her adventures.  BTW, has everyone heard the phone call in question?  It's on youtube.  

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Please keep up.

atta boy - keep everyone in line

[bangadang]

Surely there cannot be many people left who don't know that this is a USA proxy war?  USA has over 800 military bases it's obvious it will, and does, interfere everywhere.

[VBer]

On 3/2/2025 at 8:43 PM, Lacessit said:

Reality check - Ukraine did not join NATO, and it gave up its nukes in exchange for guarantees of territorial sovereignty under the Budapest Memorandum, signed by Putin.

 

Reality check: that's a lie. Vladimir Putin did not sign the Budapest Memorandum. In 1994, he was not a prominent political figure. A crucial detail is that the Budapest Memorandum was signed in 1994, when Ukraine was a neutral state, as enshrined in its constitution. However, subsequent coups and constitutional changes, aiming for NATO membership, have altered Ukraine's status. Therefore, the Ukraine that signed the memorandum is not the same entity today.

[NoDisplayName]

12 minutes ago, VBer said:

Reality check: that's a lie. Vladimir Putin did not sign the Budapest Memorandum. In 1994, he was not a prominent political figure. A crucial detail is that the Budapest Memorandum was signed in 1994, when Ukraine was a neutral state, as enshrined in its constitution. However, subsequent coups and constitutional changes, aiming for NATO membership, have altered Ukraine's status. Therefore, the Ukraine that signed the memorandum is not the same entity today.

 

Quote-mining the Budapest Memorandum is like a creationist citing the Second Law of Thermodynamics to disprove science.  They always leave out the bit about closed systems.

 

Similar to those who cite the NATO charter and Article 5 believing a "boots on the ground and planes in the air" military response is guaranteed, ignoring that it merely "calls on" member nations to aid others "in the manner they deem suitable."

 

The Budapest Memorandum doesn't simply provide security guarantees.  It also incorporates the Helsinki Final Act and the UN charter.  It certainly gets complicated when you throw regime-change and ethnic cleansing into the mix.

 

https://policymemos.hks.harvard.edu/files/policymemos/files/2-23-22_ukraine-the_budapest_memo.pdf?m=1645824948

[pegman]

On 3/2/2025 at 1:59 AM, Jingthing said:

Russian propaganda everywhere you turn these days.

No more than from the forever war neocon Yank media. If anyone is interested in what I think is honest academic commentary on what has been going on please go to YouTube and search professor Jeff Sachs of Columbia University and professor John Mearsheimer of University of Chicago. 

[still kicking]

On 3/3/2025 at 12:28 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't claim to know Zelensky's life story, but he looks to me like an actor playing a war time leader in that silly cosplay uniform, oh wait.............

Go back and count your sheep