21 minutes ago, Furioso said:

Well, we're living in a world with over 8 billion people, adding 70 or 80 million people each year. It's possible the only driving force into the worlds future will be chaos and disaster. 

It will self-correct. Too many rabbits, not enough food. Not enough food, less rabbits. AI and the Silicone Valley Wizards will no change this fundamental constellation.

5 hours ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

Democrats/liberal policies are the cause of the decline. 
 

We see it on the news EVERYDAY.

Nope. Wrong again. It started under Reagan, when massive outsourcing started happening, and it continued under all subsequent presidents Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Clinton, Obama and Biden, and now it's happening at a much faster pace under Don the Destroyer. 

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Nope. Wrong again. It started under Reagan, when massive outsourcing started happening, and it continued under all subsequent presidents Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Clinton, Obama and Biden, and now it's happening at a much faster pace under Don the Destroyer. 

 

False.

 

Outsourcing in the USA began in the 1970s when manufacturing companies started to contract out non-essential production processes to external parties.4 The trend of outsourcing, also known as offshoring, gained significant momentum in the 1960s and 1970s as large corporations transferred their manufacturing processes to lower-cost countries.2 General Electric was one of the pioneers of outsourcing at the time.2 The practice of outsourcing, which involves using external providers to carry out business processes that would otherwise be handled internally, originated no later than 1981.

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Nope. Wrong again. It started under Reagan, when massive outsourcing started happening, and it continued under all subsequent presidents Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Clinton, Obama and Biden, and now it's happening at a much faster pace under Don the Destroyer. 

In the 1970s, American companies began to outsource for several key reasons:

* **Cost Reduction**: One of the primary motivations was to reduce labor costs by moving manufacturing and other processes to countries with lower wages and less stringent labor regulations. For example, General Electric (GE) under CEO Jack Welch moved manufacturing operations to lower-cost countries to maximize profits and reduce expenses 

* **Economic Globalization**: The global economic climate shifted from scarcity to abundance, and technological advancements made it feasible to produce goods on a larger scale. This led to higher operational costs, prompting companies to seek more cost-effective solutions through outsourcing 

* **Strategic Focus**: Companies aimed to focus on their core competencies and improve efficiency by outsourcing non-core functions. This allowed them to allocate resources more effectively and enhance their competitive edge 

* **Technological Advancements**: The development of the telegraph and other communication technologies facilitated remote communication, making it easier to manage operations across different locations. This was crucial for the growth of outsourcing 

* **Regulatory Environment**: U.S. companies sought to avoid stringent workplace and environmental regulations by moving operations to countries with more lenient laws. This provided additional cost savings and operational flexibility 

* **Access to Skilled Labor**: Some companies outsourced to gain access to skilled labor in specific fields, such as manufacturing and technology, which were often more readily available and less expensive in other countries 

These factors collectively contributed to the rise of outsourcing in the 1970s, setting the stage for its continued growth and evolution in subsequent decades.

11 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 

False.

 

Outsourcing in the USA began in the 1970s when manufacturing companies started to contract out non-essential production processes to external parties.4 The trend of outsourcing, also known as offshoring, gained significant momentum in the 1960s and 1970s as large corporations transferred their manufacturing processes to lower-cost countries.2 General Electric was one of the pioneers of outsourcing at the time.2 The practice of outsourcing, which involves using external providers to carry out business processes that would otherwise be handled internally, originated no later than 1981.

OK. Agree the origin may have been earlier. But, all Republican and Democratic presidents supported it, since then. And for good reason. The US has become increasingly unaffordable for most manufacturing. And Trump won't change that. He is dreaming and his supporters are buying into his nonsensical narrative. Nothing will change the outsourcing. 

 

 

It’s a total mess. As the Ford Motor chief executive Jim Farley courageously (compared to other chief executives) pointed out, “Let’s be real honest: Long term, a 25 percent tariff across the Mexico and Canada borders would blow a hole in the U.S. industry that we’ve never seen.”

 

So, either Trump wants to blow that hole, or he’s bluffing, or he is clueless. If it is the latter, Trump is going to get a crash course in the hard realities of the global economy as it really is — not how he imagines it.

 

Ecosystems? Listen a bit to Beinhocker, who is also the executive director of the Institute for New Economic Thinking at the Oxford Martin School. In the real world, he argues, “There is no such thing as the American economy anymore that you can identify in any real, tangible way. There’s just this accounting fiction that we call U.S. G.D.P.” To be sure, he says, “There are American interests in the economy. There are American workers. There are American consumers. There are firms based in America. But there is no American economy in that isolated sense.”

 

The old days, he added, “where you made wine and I made cheese, and you had everything you needed to make wine and I had everything I needed to make cheese and so we traded with each other — which made us both better off, as Adam Smith taught — those days are long gone.” Except in Trump’s head.

 

Instead, there is a global web of commercial, manufacturing, services and trading “ecosystems,” explains Beinhocker. “There is an automobile ecosystem. There’s an A.I. ecosystem. There’s a smartphone ecosystem. There’s a drug development ecosystem. There is the chip-making ecosystem.” And the people, parts and knowledge that make up those ecosystems all move back and forth across many economies.

 

As NPR noted in a recent story about the auto industry, “carmakers have built a vast, complicated supply chain that spans North America, with parts crossing back and forth across borders throughout the auto manufacturing process. … Some parts cross borders multiple times — like, say, a wire that is manufactured in the U.S., sent to Mexico to be bundled into a group of wires, and then back to the U.S. for installation into a bigger piece of a car, like a seat.”

 

Trump just waves off all of this. He told reporters that the U.S. is not reliant on Canada. “We don’t need them to make our cars,” he said.

 

Actually, we do. And thank goodness for that. It not only enables us to make cars cheaper, but also better. All that a Model T did was get you from point to point faster than a horse, but today’s cars offer you heating and cooling and entertainment from the internet and satellites. They will navigate for you and even drive for you — and they’re much safer. When we can combine more complex knowledge and complex parts to solve complex problems, our quality of life soars.

 

But here’s the catch. You cannot make complex stuff alone anymore. It’s too complex. And if you are not part of these ecosystems, your country will not thrive.”

 

And trust is the essential ingredient that makes these ecosystems work and grow, Beinhocker adds. Trust acts as both glue and grease. It glues together bonds of cooperation, while at the same time it greases the flows of people, products, capital and ideas from one country to the next. Remove trust and the ecosystems start to collapse.

 

Trust, though, is built by good rules and healthy relationships, and Trump is trampling on both. The result: If he goes down this road, Trump will make America and the world poorer. Mr. President, do your homework.

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

OK. Agree the origin may have been earlier. But, all Republican and Democratic presidents supported it, since then. And for good reason. The US has become increasingly unaffordable for most manufacturing. And Trump won't change that. He is dreaming and his supporters are buying into his nonsensical narrative. Nothing will change the outsourcing. 

 

 

One of the most significant drivers was labor costs.  IE Unions. 

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Trump just waves off all of this. He told reporters that the U.S. is not reliant on Canada. “We don’t need them to make our cars,” he said.

Seems like Trump is trying to use tariffs against Canada to annex it.

 

This has been tried before ... in the 1890s.

So it's not even the insane ramblings of a madman. He's copying a strategy from the past. 

 

https://time.com/7212675/tariffs-canada-american-state-backfired/

 

While Trump’s protectionism and imperial designs are a sharp break with the recent past, they aren’t new. In fact, they’re part of a very old GOP playbook that dates to a period Trump regularly lionizes: the late 19th century. He sees it as a golden era in American history. Yet, the history of the 1890s actually exposes the dangers of the U.S. trying to force Canada into American hands.

 

Like Trump, Republicans in the late 19th century wanted to annex Canada—which was then still a British colony. The push to make Canada part of the U.S. reached a fever pitch following passage of the highly protectionist McKinley Tariff in 1890, which raised average tariff rates to around 50%.

 

To pressure Canada into joining the U.S., the McKinley tariff explicitly declined to make an exception for Canadian products. Republicans hoped that Canadians, who were becoming ever more reliant on the U.S. market, would be eager to become the 45th state to avoid the punishing tariffs.

 

 

8 hours ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

That’s the Queens English.

 

Quite different from real English in America.

We ain't got a real Queen anymore.

 

Little boy in school was reprimanded for his language.

Teacher: Don't you know the Queen's English?

Boy: Is she?

Bloody Sphincter....then try using a lubricant next time.

14 hours ago, Yagoda said:

As well as violent Socialists

just sharing the punches...

On 5/10/2025 at 3:45 PM, save the frogs said:

it's so silly ... does anyone take it seriously? 

 

Do you know what the Pub forum is for, froggy?

23 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

You've come a long way Bob. You started out stealing a girl away from a sleeping foreigner to this. Congrats....

You MAGA guys must have this "Bob" living rent free in your heads. The OP is Bob, I'm Bob, several other posters are called Bob.

Make up your minds, will ya?!

33 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

You MAGA guys must have this "Bob" living rent free in your heads. The OP is Bob, I'm Bob, several other posters are called Bob.

Make up your minds, will ya?!

OK Bob.

On 5/10/2025 at 5:52 PM, Harrisfan said:

You flew overseas. Must be a denialist.

Do you have only once something substantial to share??😳

13 hours ago, BLMFem said:

Do you know what the Pub forum is for, froggy?

oh yeah, i didn't even notice it was in the pub.

but why are people responding like it's a serious topic in the "world politics" forum? LOL. 

you guys are getting desperate. 

 

Why is you sphincter all bloody?

11 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Why is you sphincter all bloody?

Piles

14 hours ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

You’re easily influenced by your people.  And you think MAGA is a cult.

 

As I recall, America has never witnessed the social decline and the staggering amount of homeless population, tent cities and street crime during Reagan’s years.

 

San Francisco, Portland and New York are just three examples of complete failure of liberal Democratic policies.

 

And now you blame it on Reagan.  

I blame it on every American president since Reagan. Both sides are inept. 

1 hour ago, MalcolmB said:

Why is you sphincter all bloody?

 

It's prolly an acquired taste.