Using Agent at Immigration - good idea?

[TerraplaneGuy]

Starting a separate thread for this here.  FIRST let me be clear:  I am NOT talking about using an agent to obtain visas/extensions/permissions (or anything else) in violation of the law, such as where the applicant lacks the proper qualifications.  I AM talking about using an agent to go and facilitate processing of a legitimate transaction in circumstances where it is inconvenient or impossible for the applicant to do it him/herself.  For example, a qualified applicant needs something but due to work/family/illness/travel or other obstacles is unable to make the time to organize the application and/or be physically present.  

 

Some people seem to think using an agent is risky.  But they may be thinking of the first case (illegitimate transactions).

How about in the second case (legitimate transactions) - is there really any downside other than the agent's fee?  One risk I can imagine is that if the agent is dishonest you could end up losing your passport or other docs, etc.  So clearly some research would be needed.  Anything else?

 

Personally I've never used one, been here a long time and I prefer to do all this stuff myself.  But there may be a situation coming up where it's very inconvenient for me so ...

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Personally I've never used one, been here a long time and I prefer to do all this stuff myself.  But there may be a situation coming up where it's very inconvenient for me so

Do you actually have a question. 

Agents are used for many things apart from 12 month extensions to avoid financial compliance. 

 

Some examples include 

Passport Renewal. 

Making TM47 reports. 

Obtaining 30 day extensions etc etc

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Do you actually have a question. 

Agents are used for many things apart from 12 month extensions to avoid financial compliance. 

 

Some examples include 

Passport Renewal. 

Making TM47 reports. 

Obtaining 30 day extensions etc etc

 

I think I made my question quite clear and again, it is NOT about avoiding financial (or any other) compliance with legal requirements.  Please read my post again.  In a nutshell:  is there any downside to using an agent for legitimate Imm. procedures?

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

How about in the second case (legitimate transactions) - is there really any downside other than the agent's fee?

I already answered it. 

Many things agents can do without any downside apart from fee. 

Passport renewal would be good example esp for those living outside of Bangkok and CM. 

Good eg is UK passport in particular. 

[Equatorial]

15 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Some people seem to think using an agent is risky.  But they may be thinking of the first case (illegitimate transactions).

How about in the second case (legitimate transactions) - is there really any downside other than the agent's fee?  One risk I can imagine is that if the agent is dishonest you could end up losing your passport or other docs, etc.  So clearly some research would be needed.  Anything else?

 

I'll try to rephrase the OP question. (In fact, I've been wondering about it myself.)

 

Does using an agent to get an EOS, for logistical reasons (a.k.a convenience) rather than for reasons of non-compliance with the requirements, involve any risk?

 

I don't know the answer, but I think it boils down to one thing. Given that the applicant fulfills the EOS requirements, the only way this can be "risky" is if the act of using an agent rather than doing the legwork in person is prohibited by law, rules, or regulations. 

 

I do not know the answer - to answer it would take someone familiar with Thai law. 

 

My guess would be that, given a large volume of EOS' processed for applicants who do not fulfill the requirements, the risk for someone who actually does fulfill the requirements and only uses an agent for convenience, is negligible. 

[buddy2010]

I have lived in Thailand for 36 years.

Once, about 30 years ago, I worked with an agency .... and there was a wrong VISA in my passport!

So I went to the embassy to get a temporary passport to leave the country and then had a new one issued at home!

That was not only expensive, it was also instructive!

Just last year the Bangkok police got their hands on several dozen passports again!

 

I would never entrust my passport to anyone except a government official!

 

Official.... I think rather tolerated...money can talk...;-)

[TerraplaneGuy]

2 minutes ago, buddy2010 said:

I have lived in Thailand for 36 years.

Once, about 30 years ago, I worked with an agency .... and there was a wrong VISA in my passport!

So I went to the embassy to get a temporary passport to leave the country and then had a new one issued at home!

That was not only expensive, it was also instructive!

Just last year the Bangkok police got their hands on several dozen passports again!

 

I would never entrust my passport to anyone except a government official!

 

Official.... I think rather tolerated...money can talk...;-)

Do you mean that you gave your passport to an agent and he brought it back with an incorrect visa?   If so was it really necessary to get a new passport? Why not just have the incorrect visa cancelled and get the correct one?  I think I might be missing something here.

[TerraplaneGuy]

12 minutes ago, Equatorial said:

I don't know the answer, but I think it boils down to one thing. Given that the applicant fulfills the EOS requirements, the only way this can be "risky" is if the act of using an agent rather than doing the legwork in person is prohibited by law, rules, or regulations. 

...

Good point and although I'm not qualified in Thai law I think the answer is that using an agent is not in itself illegal but bribing an official is.  So if the applicant has any knowledge that the agent intends to pay an Imm official to "grease the wheels" that would likely be illegal (not to say chances of prosecution are high).  Clearly this is much more likely in the illegitimate situations because that's where grease is really needed.  In the legitimate situations I'd think there is little to no risk, as you indicate.

[ChipButty]

There has been some dodgy agents over the years down here in Phuket, I've never used one, I know of one guy who's passport went missing for 6 months, and in the past there have been tails of dodgy stamps, and then just pure out and out scams, especially over work permits, 

[DrJack54]

24 minutes ago, Equatorial said:

Does using an agent to get an EOS, for logistical reasons (a.k.a convenience) rather than for reasons of non-compliance with the requirements, involve any risk?

No. 

[HappyExpat57]

I believe like in anything life throws at you, there are good and bad agents. I've used an outfit that has been around for years. I am a legitimate retiree with the money well seasoned who just does NOT want to be bothered dealing with immigration.

 

I'm currently living in Chanthaburi and asked the IO if they have any agents here. She replied no and that she had never heard of the concept of agents, so I am having to deal with their petty demands each effing year. They always seem to find a reason to make it a chore. I look forward to moving back to Jomtien where I can resume using my favorite agent.

[JAG]

Given that in my local immigration office an agent sits at the back of the room, and the IOs actively refer people to her, I would suggest that it entails no risk!

[hotandsticky]

Just now, JAG said:

Given that in my local immigration office an agent sits at the back of the room, and the IOs actively refer people to her, I would suggest that it entails no risk!

 

Given that I have seen the plastic bags full of cash being passed over at Jomtien, I would also say that it entails no risk.

[couchpotato]

6 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Given that I have seen the plastic bags full of cash being passed over at Jomtien, I would also say that it entails no risk.

Plastic bags full of cash.....come on, it is not as blatant as that..bit of fibbing on your part.

[Equatorial]

1 hour ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Good point and although I'm not qualified in Thai law I think the answer is that using an agent is not in itself illegal but bribing an official is.  So if the applicant has any knowledge that the agent intends to pay an Imm official to "grease the wheels" that would likely be illegal

 

That makes sense.

 

I'll take it one step further - using the "reasonable person standard," a person who fulfills the requirement has no reason to suspect that bribing an official is taking place. Bribing for what? The "reasonable person" would think that he is strictly paying for the agent to do the legwork. 

 

OTOH, I seriously doubt that the "reasonable person standard" even exists in Thailand!

[Tod Daniels]

If you meet the financial and documentation requirements to get an extension then you're only using an agent to "shepherd you" thru the system, jump the queue, etc

As long as that's all you're doing, and you're not handing your passport to someone where it goes to a province you don't live in, gets an extension from an immigration office you never went to from an officer you never met you should be fine. <- Stamps like the ones I just mentioned (especially if that agent is banking the money for you too) are the ones that can cause heightened scrutiny when an immigration officer looks in your passport.
BUT
If you're just meeting them at the office, having them get your paperwork correct, etc, where everything is above board you should have no exposure at all. TONS of people use "shepherds" to get them thru the process faster than a normal person can do it.  
 

[Equatorial]

8 minutes ago, Tod Daniels said:

As long as [...] you're not handing your passport to someone

 

I think the OP wants to offload all of the hassle to the agent.

 

Ideally, hand over the passport (and the fee) to the agent, and come back a few days later to pick up the passport with the fresh EOS. The agent does not need to go to another province etc.; just walk the passport to the local office, wait in line, hand over the paperwork, and get the passport with the EOS from the IO. Nothing nefarious. No rules broken. No bribes paid. 

 

This type of service is commonly used in Europe. Maybe not for visa, but for a variety of interactions with the bureaucracy. You're just paying for the service in order to avoid wasting a day dealing with the bureaucracy. 

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Passport renewal would be good example esp for those living outside of Bangkok and CM. 

Good eg is UK passport in particular. 

Recently used one to renew my UK Passport. Cost me less to pay the agent than two trips to Bkk and back. Great service, 4 weeks.

[Yellowtail]

Nothing wrong with using an agent to walk you through the process and wait in line for you and whatnot. I think we used to pay B500 for the assistance/form-filling/queue-booking and whatnot, but I'm sure it's gone up since them. 

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I already answered it. 

Many things agents can do without any downside apart from fee. 

Passport renewal would be good example esp for those living outside of Bangkok and CM. 

Good eg is UK passport in particular. 

I used an agent to renew my UK passport last April. The lack of hassle was worth every penny I paid, which was £309.00, including the passport cost. All done in 3 weeks. What's not to like?

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Equatorial said:

Ideally, hand over the passport (and the fee) to the agent, and come back a few days later to pick up the passport with the fresh EOS. The agent does not need to go to another province etc.; just walk the passport to the local office, wait in line, hand over the paperwork, and get the passport with the EOS from the IO. Nothing nefarious. No rules broken. No bribes paid

That is not available. 

In past threads of problem of being too frail etc has been asked if agent can do anything. 

Something that needs to be addressed IMO. 

 

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

I believe like in anything life throws at you, there are good and bad agents. I've used an outfit that has been around for years. I am a legitimate retiree with the money well seasoned who just does NOT want to be bothered dealing with immigration.

 

I'm currently living in Chanthaburi and asked the IO if they have any agents here. She replied no and that she had never heard of the concept of agents, so I am having to deal with their petty demands each effing year. They always seem to find a reason to make it a chore. I look forward to moving back to Jomtien where I can resume using my favorite agent.

Just a thought. While sat waiting in IMMI, watch the comings and goings. An agent is usually quite easy to spot.

[Yellowtail]

I have had an agent tell me that I could just send my passport by post and get it back with the extension. I did not do try it, because it was way mor than I would pay.

[grain]

For about 15 years when I lived in Pattaya I had KeyVisa do my annual retirement ext. Everything was kosher, I had the money in the bank and all my docs were in order, it was just that I couldn't be stuffed dealing with Pattaya Imm and having to stand in line and maybe get the runaround, so I paid an agent. About 6 years ago I relocated to Korat and found it was very fast and easy to handle it myself. So the answer to OP is sure, if for any reason you don't want to do then pay an agent.

[proton]

22 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I used an agent to renew my UK passport last April. The lack of hassle was worth every penny I paid, which was £309.00, including the passport cost. All done in 3 weeks. What's not to like?

 

309 quid is not to like, its only 207 to get one the same day back home. 

[HappyExpat57]

17 minutes ago, Surasak said:

Just a thought. While sat waiting in IMMI, watch the comings and goings. An agent is usually quite easy to spot.

Chanthaburi is a real backwater city. I believe the IO when she says there are no agents here.

[samtam]

46 minutes ago, Equatorial said:

 

I think the OP wants to offload all of the hassle to the agent.

 

Ideally, hand over the passport (and the fee) to the agent, and come back a few days later to pick up the passport with the fresh EOS. The agent does not need to go to another province etc.; just walk the passport to the local office, wait in line, hand over the paperwork, and get the passport with the EOS from the IO. Nothing nefarious. No rules broken. No bribes paid. 

 

This type of service is commonly used in Europe. Maybe not for visa, but for a variety of interactions with the bureaucracy. You're just paying for the service in order to avoid wasting a day dealing with the bureaucracy. 

 

Using an agent for EOS legitimately is akin to paying for Fast Track. Been doing it for about 5 years. I provide bank letter, verified savings passbook, photos and the agent picks up from my home with my passport the day before the visit to IMM. I'm usually at IMM for about 20 minutes, and I get the EOS and Multiple Re-entry in my passport delivered back to me the next day, (sometimes the same day). The agent's work is a price worth paying (for me).

[SpaceKadet]

28 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I used an agent to renew my UK passport last April. The lack of hassle was worth every penny I paid, which was £309.00, including the passport cost. All done in 3 weeks. What's not to like?

My country requires me to apply in person, and pick it up in person. That's because all new passports contain a biometric chip that has your photo and fingerprints digitized. The embassy does the photo and fingerprints when you apply. How does you agent process that? Or does UK still issue non biometric passports?

 

The only hassle was the travel to BKK to apply, and HuaHin to pick it up. But BKK trip is always fun, getting a few booze nights with my buddies there, and HH is good for shopping (according to Mrs), so no real hassle.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, proton said:

 

309 quid is not to like, its only 207 to get one the same day back home. 

Say what. 

For expats living in Thailand doing pp renewal while in UK is not an option. 

Hence suggestion of agent if not in home country

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 minute ago, samtam said:

 

Using an agent for EOS legitimately is akin to paying for Fast Track. Been doing it for about 5 years. I provide bank letter, verified savings passbook, photos and the agent picks up from my home with my passport the day before the visit to IMM. I'm usually at IMM for about 20 minutes, and I get the EOS and Multiple Re-entry in my passport delivered back to me the next day, (sometimes the same day). The agent's work is a price worth paying (for me).

At what office?