Report Expat Confusion Grows as Thailand Cracks Down on Helmet Law Violations

[kwilco]

On 5/31/2025 at 2:43 PM, kickstart said:

Back in the day in the UK, if you had a sidecar on your bike, you would get cheaper insurance, as insurance companies consider sidecars safer than solo motorcycles.

Totally false comparison.

[richard_smith237]

35 minutes ago, kwilco said:

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

There are no stats for that

Yes there are - depending on what you mean. Te numbers of deaths reduced by helmet wearing have been well demonstrated.

 

Depending on what I mean ? - so you are not sure what I mean but still argue !!! outstanding stuff !!!! 

 

There are no stats for that - in Thailand...    project from other countries, but you yourself mention how the roads are differently engineered etc and then there are far more motorcycles here than those countries where stats are collected, thus the results would be distorted as many accidents would 'occur in a different manner at different speeds etc'... 

 

As mentioned - there are no stats for that...  (here - we are discussing Thailand).

 

 

[it is what it is]

 

what's confusing? you're riding a bike wear a helmet. next.

[kwilco]

42 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Depending on what I mean ? - so you are not sure what I mean but still argue !!! outstanding stuff !!!! 

 

There are no stats for that - in Thailand...    project from other countries, but you yourself mention how the roads are differently engineered etc and then there are far more motorcycles here than those countries where stats are collected, thus the results would be distorted as many accidents would 'occur in a different manner at different speeds etc'... 

 

As mentioned - there are no stats for that...  (here - we are discussing Thailand).

 

 

Yes there are stats - it's just as a thought, as ever you don't understand how to use them.

 

Crash helmets have been shown to reduce deaths by around 40%

[Cult of the Sun]

On 5/30/2025 at 10:10 PM, impulse said:

 

Off topic, I know... 

 

Here's some eye candy from the Vintage Vespa shop on the river in Bangkok's Chinatown.

 

 

 

In the immortal words of Jody Foster in Nell.  "Want"

 

I've gone full electric here in the states. Where I live in 21 sq. miles of  community road I can ride on w/o a tag or license.  I guess pollution snobs wouldn't like thailand very much?  I'd be dead w/o my electric scooter therapy. .. despite the fact feminists here aim for me.. 😋   Neighbor across the street is a pfizer scientist.. not even joking.

 

[freedomnow]

.....and what confusion is it creating...?

 

Pretty clear-cut..its the start of things to come...heftier penalities like western nations soon enough.

[kwilco]

8 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

.....and what confusion is it creating...?

 

Pretty clear-cut..its the start of things to come...heftier penalities like western nations soon enough.

...and one tenth the deaths - that'd not to mention the injuries, life changing ,serious and minor the cost to the country and families loss of earners etc...related deaths and severe injuries cost Thailand an estimated 531,058 million Thai Baht  about 3% of GDP. Cost to healthcare and the price of insurance.

 

Although the helmet fines could make a difference in Thailand, I don't think they know how to enforce them so changes are likely to be insignificant.

[metisdead]

A post with a trolling misspelling of another member's name has been removed.

[Grumpy one]

On 5/31/2025 at 6:37 AM, EVENKEEL said:

Not sure why expats are confused. Just wear a helmet, simple as that. 

Way too simple for some  

[kimamey]

On 5/31/2025 at 1:07 PM, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

Absolutely correct,  but you omitted the fact that there is usually a traffic cop on duty waving these helmetless kids into the school.

 

Start the education right there; impound the bike for the day  and put the students into detention.

 

A few years ago I spoke with a policeman in HCMC (where there is 99% compliance), he said it took a few years of consistent punishment but eventually they conformed. He also mentioned that they hadn't yet managed to stop them riding on the pavements!

Food delivery drivers seem to wear helmets, so there must be a way to persuade them. 

[kimamey]

On 5/31/2025 at 1:14 PM, Artisi said:

or steal a few of your girlfriend or your wifes shower cap, it's not rocket science.  

That'll be more dangerous than riding without a helmet

[kickstart]

23 hours ago, kwilco said:

Totally false comparison.

That was in the UK,the odds of a Thai side car being. Insured will be low. 

My main point was that side cars are safer than solo bikes.no matter where you are.

Insrurance companies are here to make money,if they can make money by insuring sidecars cheaper than solo bikes they will.

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, kimamey said:

That'll be more dangerous than riding without a helmet

Good point 😊

[kwilco]

12 hours ago, kickstart said:

That was in the UK,the odds of a Thai side car being. Insured will be low. 

My main point was that side cars are safer than solo bikes.no matter where you are.

Insrurance companies are here to make money,if they can make money by insuring sidecars cheaper than solo bikes they will.

Why do you think they are safer?

[richard_smith237]

On 6/2/2025 at 2:01 AM, kwilco said:

On 6/2/2025 at 1:24 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Depending on what I mean ? - so you are not sure what I mean but still argue !!! outstanding stuff !!!! 

 

There are no stats for that - in Thailand...    project from other countries, but you yourself mention how the roads are differently engineered etc and then there are far more motorcycles here than those countries where stats are collected, thus the results would be distorted as many accidents would 'occur in a different manner at different speeds etc'... 

 

As mentioned - there are no stats for that...  (here - we are discussing Thailand).

 

 

Expand  

Yes there are stats - it's just as a thought, as ever you don't understand how to use them.

 

Crash helmets have been shown to reduce deaths by around 40%

 

In your haste to argue,  you overlook the core of this discussion. Instead of addressing the real complexities, you default to shoe-horning in your assumption that only your view on road safety holds any water.

 

Motorcycle use in Thailand is fundamentally different from that in the UK, Europe, the USA, or Australia - and this directly affects the fatality reduction statistics we can expect from helmet use.

 

While Western studies often show that helmets reduce the risk of death by 37–42%, these figures come from very different contexts. Here’s why the fatality impact of helmets in Thailand may be markedly different:

 

Helmet Quality and Certification: In Western countries, helmets are generally certified to strict safety standards (such as ECE or DOT), ensuring effective protection. In Thailand, many helmets are non-certified, cheaply made, or poorly maintained. Such helmets provide significantly less protection, reducing their ability to lower fatality rates which may impact the stats compared to Western nations.

 

Proper Usage: Correct fitting and fastening are crucial to helmet effectiveness. In Thailand, helmets are frequently worn improperly or loosely, which diminishes their protective benefit and thus reduces the fatality reduction seen in Western data.

 

Traffic Environment: Thailand’s traffic is far denser with motorcycles, and road conditions are often poorer and less regulated. This chaotic mix changes crash severity and types of collisions (e.g., multi-vehicle pileups, side impacts) that helmets alone may not fully mitigate, thereby altering fatality outcomes, or perhaps the city traffic is simply slower, and this dynamic alters fatality outcomes with helmet usage.

 

Rider Training and Behaviour: Many riders in Thailand lack formal training and licensing, increasing the risk of higher-impact crashes or dangerous riding behaviours. Such factors can overwhelm the protective effects of helmets, thus the 'riding culture' in Thailand itself may alter fatality outcomes with helmet wear.

 

Emergency Medical Response: Rapid and high-quality emergency care saves lives after crashes. Thailand’s emergency response infrastructure is less developed than in Western countries, which can increase fatalities even among helmeted riders.

 

Passenger Helmet Use: Helmet use among passengers in Thailand is often lower, and passengers typically suffer a higher fatality rate in crashes, skewing overall statistics particularly as a passenger helmet is less likely to be of 'quality' than the riders helmet in Thailand.

 

 

Of course, it’s undeniable that helmets save lives — but by how much? Are we looking at a modest 25%, or a substantial 60%?

Does merely tossing on a cheap plastic shell actually shift the statistics in any meaningful way? Or would the numbers only approach those seen in Western countries if riders wore properly certified helmets - the kind that actually offer real protection?

 

This is exactly why I pointed out 'there are no reliable stats'  for Thailand.

Blindly applying figures from other countries, without accounting for local realities may not present a reliable set of information. Yet you’ve chosen to ignore this nuance, either out of wilful blindness or sheer arrogance, preferring to peacock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anchadian]

They might be around the touristy areas namely Bangkok and Pattaya but what about all the other provinces?

 

The keystone cops are nowhere to be seen in my part of the world.

 

All will be forgotten in a week.

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

Why do you think they are safer?

That is quite easy to answer can not fall off of one, like a motorbike , and you are bigger than a solo bike and will be seen more readily than a solo bike, less liable to get hit.

And yes I know if you go around a left hand corner a bit quick you can flip one over, you soon learn that  ,but they are still safer than a solo bike ,I have been riding one now for 7 years. 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, kickstart said:

That is quite easy to answer can not fall off of one, like a motorbike , and you are bigger than a solo bike and will be seen more readily than a solo bike, less liable to get hit.

And yes I know if you go around a left hand corner a bit quick you can flip one over, you soon learn that  ,but they are still safer than a solo bike ,I have been riding one now for 7 years. 

 

 Not as simple as that, this is what you really need to know
Motorcycles with sidecars (salengs) are common across Thailand, especially for transport and small business use. But they’re not inherently safe—and in a crash, they can be far more dangerous than people realize.
Here are the key factors that affect your risk:
Build quality of the sidecar - Many are locally welded or homemade using steel tubing with weak welds or poor attachment points can shear off in a crash—or flip the entire vehicle. That metal tubing itself can cause injury on impact.

Weight distribution - Sidecars often carry passengers, gas bottles, heavy goods, or even water tanks. Improper balance and instability when turning, braking, or cornering. An overloaded or uneven rig can tip, slide, or spin out, doesn’t even need much speed.
 Braking & speed  - Most setups don’t have brakes on the sidecar. Motorcycle’s brakes aren’t designed to stop safely with the extra weight and momentum. Combined with poor road surfaces, your stopping distance increases dangerously, especially in rain or downhill.
Of course there is the problem of road conditions in Thailand Expect potholes, gravel, oil patches, dogs, and uneven surfaces. These can be particularly bad with 3-wheelers - Sidecars with small wheels or no suspension react unpredictably to bumps and hazards.
Driver skill (or lack thereof) - Riding with a sidecar is not like riding a solo bike. It requires different skills. Moist Thai saleng users have these, but new users must relearn how to turn, brake, and handle corners—especially when the sidecar is loaded. Few riders, especially foreigners, ever get formal training with a sidecar setup.

Protective gear on sidecars - Helmets are often ignored, especially for sidecar passengers.
There are no seatbelts, no airbags, and nothing to stop rider or passenger from being thrown forward into hard metal tubing during a crash. Without proper gear, even a low-speed collision can be deadly.

Finally there is visibility to other drivers. Sidecars are low, wide, and odd-looking to other vehicles.- often poorly lit and slow. Cars may misjudge your speed or simply not see you—especially at night, rain or in heavy traffic.

You need to understand the physics of a crash, i.e. why sidecars can be so lethal ….. In any collision, shock absorption is critical. - Cars have crumple zones, airbags, and seatbelts.
Motorcycles rely on helmet quality, protective gear, and tank/frame design. However, sidecars in particular in Thailand? No crumple zones, no seatbelts, and usually no helmets. When you crash, your body continues at the speed of impact, stopped only by metal frames, handlebars, or the road. Add in the lack of upgraded brakes and poor directional stability (especially if the frame is bent), and you’ve got a recipe for serious injury—or worse. Sidecars might look fun or convenient—but on Thai roads, they’re not forgiving.
 

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

In your haste to argue,  you overlook the core of this discussion. Instead of addressing the real complexities, you default to shoe-horning in your assumption that only your view on road safety holds any water.

 

Motorcycle use in Thailand is fundamentally different from that in the UK, Europe, the USA, or Australia - and this directly affects the fatality reduction statistics we can expect from helmet use.

 

While Western studies often show that helmets reduce the risk of death by 37–42%, these figures come from very different contexts. Here’s why the fatality impact of helmets in Thailand may be markedly different:

 

Helmet Quality and Certification: In Western countries, helmets are generally certified to strict safety standards (such as ECE or DOT), ensuring effective protection. In Thailand, many helmets are non-certified, cheaply made, or poorly maintained. Such helmets provide significantly less protection, reducing their ability to lower fatality rates which may impact the stats compared to Western nations.

 

Proper Usage: Correct fitting and fastening are crucial to helmet effectiveness. In Thailand, helmets are frequently worn improperly or loosely, which diminishes their protective benefit and thus reduces the fatality reduction seen in Western data.

 

Traffic Environment: Thailand’s traffic is far denser with motorcycles, and road conditions are often poorer and less regulated. This chaotic mix changes crash severity and types of collisions (e.g., multi-vehicle pileups, side impacts) that helmets alone may not fully mitigate, thereby altering fatality outcomes, or perhaps the city traffic is simply slower, and this dynamic alters fatality outcomes with helmet usage.

 

Rider Training and Behaviour: Many riders in Thailand lack formal training and licensing, increasing the risk of higher-impact crashes or dangerous riding behaviours. Such factors can overwhelm the protective effects of helmets, thus the 'riding culture' in Thailand itself may alter fatality outcomes with helmet wear.

 

Emergency Medical Response: Rapid and high-quality emergency care saves lives after crashes. Thailand’s emergency response infrastructure is less developed than in Western countries, which can increase fatalities even among helmeted riders.

 

Passenger Helmet Use: Helmet use among passengers in Thailand is often lower, and passengers typically suffer a higher fatality rate in crashes, skewing overall statistics particularly as a passenger helmet is less likely to be of 'quality' than the riders helmet in Thailand.

 

 

Of course, it’s undeniable that helmets save lives — but by how much? Are we looking at a modest 25%, or a substantial 60%?

Does merely tossing on a cheap plastic shell actually shift the statistics in any meaningful way? Or would the numbers only approach those seen in Western countries if riders wore properly certified helmets - the kind that actually offer real protection?

 

This is exactly why I pointed out 'there are no reliable stats'  for Thailand.

Blindly applying figures from other countries, without accounting for local realities may not present a reliable set of information. Yet you’ve chosen to ignore this nuance, either out of wilful blindness or sheer arrogance, preferring to peacock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are unbelievable - you cut and paste my stuff and then try to change the conclusion - you keep posting about stuff that you know nothing about.

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, kwilco said:

you are unbelievable - you cut and paste my stuff and then try to change the conclusion - you keep posting about stuff that you know nothing about.

 

What are you crying about now ? I've not cut any pasted anything of yours....

 

 

You are now arguing for the sake of it - the 'fatality impact of helmets' (i.e. reduction of fatalities due to wide-spread helmet use) in Thailand is not know, there are no available stats for Thailand.

 

I provided a lot of reasons why the Stats from Western Nations (such as those in the EU) may not be transferable or may not accurately project across to a nation such as Thailand.

 

 

One day - I will copy and paste an exact statement you have made - I believe you would still argue against it !!!