Analysis Thailand in Trouble: Expats Exit as Vietnam Steals the Show

[Mike_Hunt]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Can't handle the possibility that the US is on the decline, the quality of life is dropping, prices are skyrocketing, and very few people seem to be manifesting much in the way of and joy? 

Prices skyrocketed under you boy Joe Biden.    Thank GOD inflation is cooling. 

 

How in the hell do you measure Joy?   What is your sample size? 

[Mike_Hunt]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I agree but when the government lies to us, as they always do, and they use obscure commodities like magnesium ore to skew the Consumer Price Index, it has no bearing on reality. When you're actually spending time there and going into the supermarkets and buying your normal staples, that's when you have a sense of where inflation really is, and it really is truly in the neighborhood of 20% right now. 

 

Are you suggesting that the annual inflation rate is 20%? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Have you considered the mathematics behind it?

 

 

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

May I ask which Public Hospitial you use ?

Siriraj comes highlighly recommended - but of course wait lists can be long - thus I'm wondering which other hospital you have been very happy with - might give it a try (even though I'm covered - its good research for the future).

 

An additional facet to using the public hospitals is that many of the Surgeons and specialists at the private hospitals, also work at the Public hospitals. 

 

But, another point: at public hospitals such as Siriraj, a lot of Operations (simpler ones of course) are carried out by trainees, under the supervision of a senior surgeon - they have to learn somewhere, but that is also worth consideration. 

 

 

I have potentially 800k bahts worth of treatment required this year alone (if carried out at a private Hosptials).

 

Thus: I wonder how much and MRI and arthroscopic surgery is at your Public Hopital and how long the wait times for treatment are.

 

 

 

Ramathibodi hospital in Bangkok on Rama VI in Ratchathewi. It came very highly recommended by a friend of mine and I was very satisfied with their level professionalism, their expertise and reasonable pricing. Like most public hospitals it's not easy to get an appointment with a specialist, but it can be done if one is patient. 

 

It is very likely the best public hospital in Thailand. 

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Ramathibodi hospital in Bangkok on Rama VI in Ratchathewi. It came very highly recommended by a friend of mine and I was very satisfied with their level professionalism, their expertise and reasonable pricing. Like most public hospitals it's not easy to get an appointment with a specialist, but it can be done if one is patient. 

 

It is very likely the best public hospital in Thailand. 

 

Appreciate the heads up - from someone such as yourself who's been a long time member here - this is solid info.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

13 hours ago, Cult of the Sun said:

Don't you also have to have a tracking app on your phone? I don't use cell phones so, if they went ahead w/ that I guess I could just wear a scarlet letter? 🤔

They tried that during Covid - it was ignored and rejected by most, and they dropped it. But if the Junta again takes over Thailand, I expect them to do it again. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I lived in working India for a long time and I've been there in several occasions before and after, and I love India, and so does my Thai woman. I'd go back there in a nanosecond, it's a fascinating country with a super rich culture. But it's not a destination I would choose as an expat, on any level. 

Where were you located - I was in New Delhi. D o you know what I am talking about when I mention what you have to experience to know about it?? 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Why would anybody go to a private hospital if they didn't have premium insurance?!? Govt hospitals: as anywhere, always ask the price first and bargain!

ROFLOL. Are you for real? Negotiate pricing with a Thai Govt Hospital??  Who exactly would you do that with - and where have you done that ?? 

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Where were you located - I was in New Delhi. D o you know what I am talking about when I mention what you have to experience to know about it?? 

Of course. You have to experience India to know what it's all about, it's truly one of the most unique countries in the world, and it's not a place for easy travel nor easy living. I lived and worked there for 18 months in New Delhi. I would much rather have preferred Mumbai (Bombay), which I think is a fantastic city. Delhi is quite dull. 

 

It was a great experience and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I would go back for another visit in a nanosecond, and we are planning a visit next year. But I would never choose to live in India. There are so many reasons why so few expats choose India for retirement. 

[spidermike007]

59 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 

Are you suggesting that the annual inflation rate is 20%? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Have you considered the mathematics behind it?

 

 

Yes. I go back a minimum of twice per year and virtually every one of my staples has gone up 10 to 15% every 6 months. All of my family is back there and I have dozens of friends and they all report the same thing, inflation has not slowed down, and prices continue to soar to the point where it is an out of control economy. It is totally unsustainable. It will implode and it is going to be very, very ugly when it does.

 

I'm not going to give you citations because it's a useless task arguing with you. I'm just telling you my experience on the ground. 20% minimum. 

[daveAustin]

On 6/19/2025 at 1:09 PM, spidermike007 said:

I might be an exception as I see so many guys on here complaining about the Thai people, but I really like them. I find them to be quite delightful, light-hearted, humorous and fun to be around. 

 

What am I missing? 

Not the exception. Most of the complainers likely live in tourist areas and might not have genuine Thai friends. 
Someone above said it all changed when Thaksin arrived. I don’t see it, at least not where I am. Thais might be more worldly now and used to foreigners—plus smartphones and social media have frigged up the whole world somewhat—but I also enjoy being around them as much as I did 25y ago. 
 

That said, can see why people are upping sticks. The government is too wishy washy and unpredictable, messing with visas and entry requirements, threatening taxes etc. And a decent beer or wine in one of the main places is getting silly.  
 

But this is perhaps what they want. Can’t really blame them, what with all the foreigner problems in some places. 
 

Would also like to try Vietnam, but until they sort out long term visas it’d be extended visits only. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Of course. You have to experience India to know what it's all about, it's truly one of the most unique countries in the world, and it's not a place for easy travel nor easy living. I lived and worked there for 18 months in New Delhi. I would much rather have preferred Mumbai (Bombay), which I think is a fantastic city. Delhi is quite dull. 

 

It was a great experience and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I would go back for another visit in a nanosecond, and we are planning a visit next year. But I would never choose to live in India. There are so many reasons why so few expats choose India for retirement. 

I hear you and understand those reasons - the smell alone is enough, but the poverty and squalor is hard to see without being affected - especially given that the vast majority of Indian poor people are lovely.  I was astounded at how the people could be happy despite living in such abject poverty that it makes everywhere in Thailand look like Monaco. It certainly had an affect on myself that was dramatic and long lasting - I just dont want to ever see it again (or smell it).  

[BangkokReady]

On 6/19/2025 at 8:24 AM, blaze master said:

Thailand was in trouble years ago. Their blind arrogance got in the way of them seeing it. 

 

They thought tourists would never dream of going elsewhere and decided to launch multiple anti-foreigner campaigns since covid.

[BangkokReady]

On 6/19/2025 at 8:00 AM, webfact said:

"That special feeling is vanishing in Thailand."

 

It vanished long ago.

[DLock]

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the wrong forum.

 

I experience few if any problems in Thailand. I have companies and work permit and yellow tabien baan and pink ID card - everything is fairly straight forward. I do have lawyers to help with things when needed, but these kind of services are easily available. I have an outstanding quality of life and do ok.

 

2-week tourists should also have minimal hassles, apart from typical tourist scams.

 

So, who are all the whiners? Long stay tourists?

 

If you can't find decent rent, reasonable insurance (or not), cheap food and fun, and enjoy life in Thailand...then try Vietnam of the Philippines - you will enjoy it for a while...but you'll be back.

 

Personally, I enjoy it with fewer people around...

[Geoff914]

59 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 But I would never choose to live in India. There are so many reasons why so few expats choose India for retirement. 

Not even the Indians themselves it would seem.

[newnative]

On 6/19/2025 at 12:20 PM, save the frogs said:

 

There seems to be a lot of BS in this article.

 

Dual pricing at medical facilities? I seriously doubt it. 

Street markets? No, there's no dual pricing. And things are so dirt cheap in street markets anyway. If you can't afford street food, you ain't gonna survive in Vietnam either. 

 

Yeah. National Parks maybe. And people are flocking to National Parks every day, right? And temples. 

 

 

     My thought, too--a lot of BS.  Thai retirement visa hasn't changed for me in 10 years except I now need health insurance, which I have anyway.  The dual pricing thing supposedly being a big issue is a total joke--I can't remember the last time I paid more for something than a Thai, and it certainly would not factor in when I was thinking where I want to live.   Ridiculous--oh, dear, I have to pay an extra 100 baht to visit the park!  How dare they!   I'm outta here!   

    And, as others have mentioned, the article conveniently left out the fact that Vietnam has no retirement visa.  Umm, that's sort of important to retirees.  

[Mike_Hunt]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yes. I go back a minimum of twice per year and virtually every one of my staples has gone up 10 to 15% every 6 months. All of my family is back there and I have dozens of friends and they all report the same thing, inflation has not slowed down, and prices continue to soar to the point where it is an out of control economy. It is totally unsustainable. It will implode and it is going to be very, very ugly when it does.

 

I'm not going to give you citations because it's a useless task arguing with you. I'm just telling you my experience on the ground. 20% minimum. 

You will not post data due to the fact you have no data.  Your feelings are not data.

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, newnative said:

 Ridiculous--oh, dear, I have to pay an extra 100 baht to visit the park!  How dare they!   I'm outta here!   

 

yeah, that's a joke.

but apparently there is dual pricing in healthcare.

I am not even sure what that means exactly. I thought Thais had access to free medical. 

 

[Lee4Life]

On 6/18/2025 at 10:20 PM, save the frogs said:

 

There seems to be a lot of BS in this article.

 

Dual pricing at medical facilities? I seriously doubt it. 

Street markets? No, there's no dual pricing. And things are so dirt cheap in street markets anyway. If you can't afford street food, you ain't gonna survive in Vietnam either. 

 

Yeah. National Parks maybe. And people are flocking to National Parks every day, right? And temples. 

 

 

Why do you "seriously doubt dual pricing happens in medical facilities" ? How often have you used them? Do you have access that allows you to see what Thai citizens pay? Thailand has a form of subsidized health care, so there's actually a huge difference in what they pay if they meet the requirements and use the government hospitals and clinics in their provinces. Also "Street markets" doesn't mean just street food, it means goods also, I doubt that you have never experienced being overcharged. 

[actonion]

23 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

The low Thai tourist numbers are ten times higher than the record Viet numbers.

give it time 

[DrPhibes]

On 6/20/2025 at 8:28 AM, spidermike007 said:

Total agreement here. I travel back to the States frequently, a minimum of twice per year and I can tell you for a fact that Americans right now are rather joyless, and lacking in humor, they don't seem to be enjoying their lives very much, they're living, working, eating, and sleeping. Not much of a life, and many of them seem bitter, disenfranchised, disappointed, highly divided, and utterly joyless, no thanks. 

Agree, I just got back 3 weeks ago (go back every year to work for 3 months) and have to say, even those well off financially are somewhat depressed.  Some of that comes as the America they grew up with and loved is being morphed into something where a kid can't just walk alone or bike blocks away to a friends house without someone wanting to call child services on the parents.  The idea a kid should never get hurt physically from playing or having to deal emotionally when your friends don't like you one day (but are back being friends 2 days later) or that a kid should never cry.  Crying as a kid means their upset about something but does not always mean something is wrong.  There is less socializing as people are more and more glued to screens in all forms, creating real emotional isolation and I think people subconsciously are aware of it leading to a mild type of depression.  It is also the 1st time in American history that the generations coming up will generally be worse off than their parents and grandparents unless handed generational wealth.  Lastly, there is also the gut feeling that now we, the US, are the bad guys in the world right now when we used to stand up for what was right.  Pretty much summed up here.

 

 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, DrPhibes said:

Agree, I just got back 3 weeks ago (go back every year to work for 3 months) and have to say, even those well off financially are somewhat depressed.  Some of that comes as the America they grew up with and loved is being morphed into something where a kid can't just walk alone or bike blocks away to a friends house without someone wanting to call child services on the parents.  The idea a kid should never get hurt physically from playing or having to deal emotionally when your friends don't like you one day (but are back being friends 2 days later) or that a kid should never cry.  Crying as a kid means their upset about something but does not always mean something is wrong.  There is less socializing as people are more and more glued to screens in all forms, creating real emotional isolation and I think people subconsciously are aware of it leading to a mild type of depression.  It is also the 1st time in American history that the generations coming up will generally be worse off than their parents and grandparents unless handed generational wealth.  Lastly, there is also the gut feeling that now we, the US, are the bad guys in the world right now when we used to stand up for what was right.  Pretty much summed up here.

 

 

A lot of very good points that you raise, and there's no doubt that Trump is diminishing America's standing throughout the world to a dramatic extent in such a short period of time. But the thing I do give him credit for is breaking down the delusion that America is a truly great country, and a country that's worth immigrating to. I think a lot of the world is having a rethink on that one. 

 

The secondary aspect is that as you say we are becoming weaker and much more sensitive, and thin-skinned as a people, and in general mankind is becoming a victim culture and a snowflake culture. This is perhaps the weakest generation in the history of mankind. 

 

 

 

[khunjake]

5 or 10-year retirement visa for Vietnam in the works apparently. 
 

https://news.tuoitre.vn/vietnams-retiree-visa-should-attract-financially-stable-individuals-opinion-103250618163103742.htm

 

Just came back from a short trip there and I can tell you where all the Chinese tourists have gone. Lots of

young westerners as well. 

[unblocktheplanet]

20 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

ROFLOL. Are you for real? Negotiate pricing with a Thai Govt Hospital??  Who exactly would you do that with - and where have you done that ?? 

I looked after a friend in a coma for a year maybe a decade ago. It was a rehab hospital in the Bangkok sticks. Yep, price negotiable except on meds.

[unblocktheplanet]

2 hours ago, khunjake said:

5 or 10-year retirement visa for Vietnam in the works apparently. Lots of young westerners as well. 

Language considerably harder than Thai.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I looked after a friend in a coma for a year maybe a decade ago. It was a rehab hospital in the Bangkok sticks. Yep, price negotiable except on meds.

I understand. But that is not now, and it is not the normal situation. For things like illness or accidents there is no way to negotiate - there is a set charge. But yes a daily room rate for a long term stay could probably be negotiated in some Thai Govt hospitals. My wife's Mother had a procedure done and when I asked about the cost of a private room for her to stay for 5-6 days in recovery (the wife did), I pushed back on the initial 'falang' price they gave, and she negotiated a discount (the private rooms were mostly empty). 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 hours ago, khunjake said:

5 or 10-year retirement visa for Vietnam in the works apparently. 
 

https://news.tuoitre.vn/vietnams-retiree-visa-should-attract-financially-stable-individuals-opinion-103250618163103742.htm

 

Just came back from a short trip there and I can tell you where all the Chinese tourists have gone. Lots of

young westerners as well. 

I have been watching this one for a while now - like in Thailand there are a lot of anti-western locals who dont want foreigners living in their country so it is taking time to get approved and created.  I hope it goes ahead, and that  they dont set the $fees as high as Thailand did, or they will get the same number of takers - very few normal people and several Chinese/Russian etc. criminals.

 

[unblocktheplanet]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Appreciate the heads up - from someone such as yourself who's been a long time member here - this is solid info.

Once you get to see a specialist in a govt hospital, get them to refer you to the next specialty you need. There are lazy docs & those who just don't have your chemistry or long-term interests in mind. Second opinions are harder here. I use Chula but it's a zoo. Few farang have the patience.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Appreciate the heads up - from someone such as yourself who's been a long time member here - this is solid info.

Once you get to see a specialist in a govt hospital, get them to refer you to the next specialty you need. There are lazy docs & those who just don't have your chemistry or long-term interests in mind. Second opinions are harder here. I use Chula but it's a zoo. Few farang have the patience.

 

Which is why the recommendation from spidermike is a good one - positive first hand experience. 

 

I also get your comment about 'chemistry and long-term interests in mind'  -  In private hospitals here I've walked out twice on meetings with Doctors who are clearly too lazy to address the issues at hand (back issues - lazy diagnosis / sons paediatrician caught out in a lie - both were very well known top tier hospitals).

 

99% of the time though - treatment has been simply outstanding and the level of care second to none - but, we 'have to also be aware ourselves' of what is going on or we can get led down the garden path so to speak, either a potential misdiagnosis or additional unneeded treatments or scans etc.