Opinion Thailand's Visa Shake-Up Threatens Retiree Paradise

[Airalee]

Supposedly there are an estimated 85-125,000 people on “retirement visas” (no need to correct me on the terminology…..you know what I mean)

 

In almost 3 years, there have been approximately 6,000 LTR visas issued across all four categories.  No disclosure with regards to how many are in the “wealthy global citizen” or “wealthy retirees” categories.

 

Basic math shows that the LTR visa certainly doesn’t seem like an economic winner for Thailand.  I doubt the “wealthy” people will spend 20x as much as the middle class.  How could they if only $80,000 is required?

 

20,000 elite visas issued over 20 years hasn’t saved the economy either.

 

”Sell to the classes, eat with the masses.  Sell to the masses, eat with the classes”.  
                   -Henry Ford

[Burma Bill]

5 hours ago, baansgr said:

long term visas marginally cheaper is Cambodia. 

 

Yes indeed, with no hassle and so simple to obtain a one year retirement visa.

 

No bureaucratic paperwork. (bank books, TM30 etc.)

No 400,00/800,00 baht equivalent in a bank account.

Cambodian bank account not required, just pay 300$ in cash.

One year retirement visa includes multiple re-entries. 

No 90 day reports. 

 

[terryofcrete]

Wealthy people can be very careful with their money. They know how to avoid spending as much as they know how to spend it when do.

[radiochaser]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

I had a retirement O for 20 years, with no problems.  As a matter of fact, immigration has gotten IMHO a lot easier and faster than it used to be.  I can recall having to be at immigration CM before 5 AM in order to get in the queue quick enough so that I could then get a queue ticket for that day.  I was on the monthly income route and never had a problem obtaining the bank documents.  But hen they dropped the LTR to 50K versus 100K, i recognized that it was perfect for my financial situation.  Took about 3 weeks, doing everything online in my own house without having to get any bank letters or any trips outside.  The BOI folks were extremely forthcoming for any situation and all spoke excellent Enlish.  Benefits far out weigh the Retirement O but if after the 10 years of this visa they drop it for me I would  gladly go back to a retirement O as that is a great visa too for a year at a time.  But I can understand a possible local change to health insurance unless they decide to attach that to the tourist visas as it seems there are a lot of uninsured having problems here while having fun. 

I remember reading about those stories of having to be there at 5 and 6 am in the morning.   I would think, I'm not doing that.  I'll pay someone to do it for me. 

[unblocktheplanet]

Laos? Myanmar?

[Burma Bill]

13 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

I remember reading about those stories of having to be there at 5 and 6 am in the morning.   I would think, I'm not doing that.  I'll pay someone to do it for me. 

 

Yes indeed the wait at the old Chiang Mai Immigration Office was horrendous. However I, and many other ex-pats, used an agent who escorted us to a room behind the front desk where our paperwork was processed quickly and efficiently - no long waits, for a fee of course!

Here in Cambodia, no such problems these days!  

[baansgr]

29 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

 

Yes indeed, with no hassle and so simple to obtain a one year retirement visa.

 

No bureaucratic paperwork. (bank books, TM30 etc.)

No 400,00/800,00 baht equivalent in a bank account.

Cambodian bank account not required, just pay 300$ in cash.

One year retirement visa includes multiple re-entries. 

No 90 day reports. 

 

Yes that part is great but what about infrastructure, healthcare, the food...I couldn't really find a lot there to do as you can here

[gk10012001]

I would add that for several expats, UK USA, the big inconvenience was their embassies stopping issuing income affidavits.  That forced people to do the other methods, deposit 800k, make monthly transfers et al.

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've also tried them all,

Cambodia and Philippines as good as Thailand as place to live, paperwork easier than Thailand (almost none). Officials much more helpful and welcoming, don't make you wait around all day for extensions, don't treat you like a criminal.

 

If I didn't already have a Thai wife and kids, I'd not be here.

Vietnam easier with local wife or child, but not so easy without.

No insurance required in any of the four countries.

Insurance isn't required here although it's best to have cover. I found PI very corrupt and the visa situation very expensive, granted you stay on a tourist visa for 3 years but the cost is horrendous renewing every 30/60 days..and.agaim, PI the infrastructure is awful, really nothing worth doing there

[radiochaser]

1 minute ago, gk10012001 said:

I would add that for several expats, UK USA, the big inconvenience was their embassies stopping issuing income affidavits.  That forced people to do the other methods, deposit 800k, make monthly transfers et al.

One can only hope that the U.S. of A government agency letters sent out each year, specifying the monthly payments for the new year, will be an acceptable alternative.   

 

Back during the covid plague farce, the Thai government accepted the letter from my health insurance, when it required 1,000,000 Baht (I think that was the figure), and my insurance letter specified that I had unlimited cost coverage.   So there is hope for the above type of letters. 

[mikebike]

9 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

I would add that for several expats, UK USA, the big inconvenience was their embassies stopping issuing income affidavits.  That forced people to do the other methods, deposit 800k, make monthly transfers et al.

Not such a big deal. Canada just did it this yr, with no warning or lead time. Our May extension went fine.

[Burma Bill]

7 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Yes that part is great but what about infrastructure, healthcare, the food...I couldn't really find a lot there to do as you can here

 

No problems for me as I was a "country bumpkin" type of person. Nightlife, bars and beaches and Bangkok etc. were of no interest to me. I used to live in quiet areas of rural Lanna then Isaan, and now a quiet suburb of Siem Reap. All suited me. 

[ronnie50]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

In 2023, Thailand introduced its Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa, designed to attract “high-potential” foreigners. The requirements are eye-watering: an annual income of US$80,000 (£63,000) for at least two consecutive years a

Think this is a compilation of an older story - one that also had the mistake of saying the LTR WP had a requirement of two year's proof of $80k+.

I believe the requirement is one year (12 consecutive months), not 'two years.'

[bkk_mike]

2 hours ago, theblether said:

It's only a question of time before the 65,000 and 800,000 methods are increased. When that happens many law abiding retirees will abandon Thailand. 

 

There are legal workarounds for mandatory insurance already. 

Actually, they probably won't. Last time the amounts went up, people who were already here were grandfathered in on the old amounts.

But there are some nice bits of the Philippines, and you can join their universal healthcare system as a retiree, and if you're British your state pension doesn't get frozen. I think it's not as nice a place to live as Thailand, more dangerous, worse food, and hospitals are very much down to where you live. English is a lot more widely spoken as well.

If I had been married to a Filipina for 26 years, rather than married to a Thai, I would seriously consider it.

[statman78]

28 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

I would add that for several expats, UK USA, the big inconvenience was their embassies stopping issuing income affidavits.  That forced people to do the other methods, deposit 800k, make monthly transfers et al.

For me when the US stopped the income affidavits it made it was for me here in Chiang Rai.  I bring in my 65k every month and when extension time comes I provide an annual bank statement showing my deposits.  Very simple.

 

For those who complain about dealing with immigration, each office is different.  Here in Chiang Rai the IOs are courteous and some are friendly at times.  I’ve never had any issues over the 7+ years I’ve lived here.

[newnative]

    Total rubbish, incorrect article.  AN should be ashamed to have published this absolute garbage.  I have been here 15 years and the ONLY change in that time was the requirement for health insurance--which can be negated by switching to the other type of retirement visa.  

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, terryofcrete said:

In general the poor food choices would be a deterrent for me in the Philippines…maybe I missed something but I struggled to find a good meal. 

baluts-du-jour weren't to your liking?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

O visa no health insurance required.

The majority of people doing annual retirement extensions started with O visas. Not OA visas.

Its not harder for most in the system. 

The article is very misleading.

 

Agreed. The article, wrongly, makes it sound like the higher priced/income LTR visas have replaced the traditional 800K retirement visas and extensions, when in fact they did not. The 800K visas and extensions for retirement, and the lower income marriage visas and extensions, are still available, alongside the pricier LTR option.

 

The folks posting this kind of misleading nonsense should know better.

 

[marin]

3 hours ago, theblether said:

It's only a question of time before the 65,000 and 800,000 methods are increased. When that happens many law abiding retirees will abandon Thailand. 

 

There are legal workarounds for mandatory insurance already. 

Got out your crystal ball today?

[Gknrd]

The paperwork is a pain in the A$$ in Thailand, No residents visa. Nice when you are younger. Women are a dime a dozen. I think the main reason to stay a few years after retirement. Then move on to more stable retirement countries, to spend your money and a quiet stress free live..  That is what I did and cannot complain.. After about 68 I got sick of the nonsense, moved to a country that is hassle free and has clean air.  My quality of life has improved 100%

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

 

No problems for me as I was a "country bumpkin" type of person. Nightlife, bars and beaches and Bangkok etc. were of no interest to me. I used to live in quiet areas of rural Lanna then Isaan, and now a quiet suburb of Siem Reap. All suited me. 

Sounds like paradise, 👍 

[ikke1959]

It is a pity that Thailand and the news are always able to make confusions and so they are not reliable... This article is such an article. It is only a promotion for the Long Term Visa, which is failing... Wealthy foreigners can find other countries with less requirements and easier visa than Thailand.. the 90 day report and the address notifications are so outdated and even released convicts are more free than a visaholder..And renewing with all the same copies year after year and no possibility to get a visa with a validity of 5 years without any obligation or restriction. Thailand want to the hub of everything but the people who write such articles show that nothing is being investigated and checked. How much money do the " medium" retirement visa holders contribute to the Thai economy compared with the few LTR??  If there is only a LTR available what will be the impact for the economy?? Nothing of these questions is investigated, but Thailand once made a mistake by stricter visa rules, with result that many family runned shops and restaurants had to close and expats without enough income/money in bankaccounts left the country and the backpackers stayed away because of the strict rules  and difficulties for workpermits...Since the army is in power these measures damaged the country and now they want to get rid, according to the article, of the normal people and only the rich.. I think they are waiting to flock in with the high income taxes Thailand has compared to other countries and the changing rules on everything. What to is allowed can be banned  or illegal tomorrow

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, radiochaser said:

I remember reading about those stories of having to be there at 5 and 6 am in the morning.   I would think, I'm not doing that.  I'll pay someone to do it for me. 

like I said, that was years ago and they changed it as they built up the current immigration.  Now one doesn't really need to get they much before they open (this is CM BTW) - in BKK I used to go to Baan Suan Plu immigration but also used to have to do the bus runs to Poipet at the casinos...survived all that, moved to BM and differnt ballgame.  I didn't belong to the forum and never thought about using an agent as i speak Thai and couldn't waste money on an agent.  As a retiree, I had no special thing that had to be done except the yearly renewal and mail in the 90 day report.  NOw with things online it is even easier to do things for oneself.  But if one has money to waste be my guest as they say..up to you.  But for me the lTR is the perfect visa, benefits definitely are greater than the retirement visa and for a 10-year period turn out to be cheaper too.

[ronnie50]

4 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

Yes indeed, with no hassle and so simple to obtain a one year retirement visa.

 

No bureaucratic paperwork. (bank books, TM30 etc.)

No 400,00/800,00 baht equivalent in a bank account.

Cambodian bank account not required, just pay 300$ in cash.

One year retirement visa includes multiple re-entries. 

No 90 day reports. 

 

I guess no reason one couldn't have more than one country's retirement visa? I was hoping Vietnam would simplify theirs so I could double up on the Thai retirement extension. For Cambodia, do you need to prove you have a residence there (rent or own) to get the retirement visa?

[freedomnow]

5 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

Scaremongering. I am pretty sure immigration won't change current rules on the Non-O for retirees. This is their bread and butter, they can't afford to lose tens of thousands of retirees, who are also contributing with 50-100k baht to the society every month.

 

Especially not this era, and these years, where there are some other good choices out there, trying to capture some of Thailand's retirees.

 

Thailand can shoot themselves in one foot, but even they learn before they shoot their other one as well.

I stand by what I say.

There will simpy be so many wanting to retire in LoS that it will become suppy/demand and how high they can put the bar soon enough.

Like I said, they may grandfather in people at the rate they are at and put new applicants through a higher threshold hoop. 

[Peter Crow]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

 

That has changed. In 2023, Thailand introduced its Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa, designed to attract “high-potential” foreigners. The requirements are eye-watering: an annual income of US$80,000 (£63,000) for at least two consecutive years and assets worth at least US$1m (£780,000).

....

Losing that community could change the character of expat life in Thailand, replacing diverse, integrated neighbourhoods with exclusive enclaves for the ultra-wealthy.

 

Made me laugh...

 

BTW, it isn't "and assets". it's "or assets"

[Jonathan Swift]

This same story in one form or another repeats itself on a regular basis. Nothing to see here folks. 

[Burma Bill]

2 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

I guess no reason one couldn't have more than one country's retirement visa? I was hoping Vietnam would simplify theirs so I could double up on the Thai retirement extension. For Cambodia, do you need to prove you have a residence there (rent or own) to get the retirement visa?

 

Yes, you have to confirm you are recorded in the FPCS (Foreign Persons in Cambodia System) BUT the onus for this is on your landlord, hotel manager or other property owner. When you go for a visa just ask your property owner/manager to confirm your FPCS record. 

[Mark1969]

13 hours ago, nausea said:

Whilst Thailand remains my country of choice, the Philippines is my plan B, mainly cos it would unfreeze my second (state) pension; so very interesting to read their requirements are so low. 

Philippines sucks in many ways. It's a big step down. I know you can find paradise anywhere though, even in a trash can and nobody takes it like you can.

[riclag]

14 hours ago, JimGant said:

BS. I only had to show one year's annual income of US$80k, and there was NO US$1m in assets required. What's the purpose of this article -- to highlight the competitor countries?

Another who reads between the lines.

 God Bless you,It saves me from reading the comments in the next pages!

Cheers mate