1 minute ago, JimCM said:

Simple question- does Israel want peace?
 

I say most definitely not.

 

 

 

No, they want to occupy Gaza and set up more settlements, just to spite the world and you guys.

4 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Simple question- does Israel want peace?
 

I say most definitely not.

 

 

 

I don't know about you guys but I'm enjoying this exchange of ideas with so many Israel's haters, it's a hoot.

3 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Yes must be, and hey, tell all your buddies there that there's a bunch of Israelis tourists, most of them soldiers on a holiday

staying in Soi 6 Pattaya and to grab their Hamas flags and go kick some heads there.

Israel’s strategic interventions in Sudan, mostly through support of southern rebel groups contributed to the intensit of civil conflict. It’s fair to say Israel bears some indirect responsibility for exacerbating the conflict. Of course the US did most the dirty stuff on Israel’s behalf.

5 minutes ago, ezzra said:

No, they want to occupy Gaza and set up more settlements, just to spite the world and you guys.

Ah, so you admit it now, that’s progress.

Incredible some are still trying,, unsuccessfully to defend the indefensible. 

5 minutes ago, ezzra said:

I don't know about you guys but I'm enjoying this exchange of ideas with so many Israel's haters, it's a hoot.

Do you think people hate Israel because of religious reasons or what they are currently doing in Gaza and West Bank?

Post breaching Forum Rule #27

 

27. You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article. Content in the public domain is limited to the same restrictions.

 

@Jeff the Chef

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    Palestine doesn't want a 2 state solution though .

Palestine are fighting for  1 state solution .

Allowing Palestine to have their own Country in a 2 state solution will just be giving them a platform to attack Israel

No, Palestinians are fighting for their survival but they have no chance militarily. Luckily, the world will stop what Israel are trying to do, make Gaza and WB unliveable so all of them volantaril Leave, which will never happen.

Show some humanity and compassion for the Palestinians, they’ve been persecuted for decades by Israel.

10 minutes ago, ezzra said:

I don't know about you guys but I'm enjoying this exchange of ideas with so many Israel's haters, it's a hoot.

It’s interesting but not really a fair debate.

1 minute ago, JimCM said:

Do you think people hate Israel because of religious reasons or what they are currently doing in Gaza and West Bank?

 

IMHO all religion is nonsense, none of it makes any sense in this modern scientific world and if we didn't teach it to young impressionable minds, it would die out in a generation.

 

 

I've said this before too..

 

I am Pro

Israeli, Jew/Jewish, Palestine, Palestinian

 

I am Against

Israel, Hamas

48 minutes ago, JimCM said:

No, Palestinians are fighting for their survival but they have no chance militarily. Luckily, the world will stop what Israel are trying to do, make Gaza and WB unliveable so all of them volantaril Leave, which will never happen.

Show some humanity and compassion for the Palestinians, they’ve been persecuted for decades by Israel.

 

  Palestine began the war with the aim of eradicating Israel , they wanted a genocide of the jews .

   Palestine have been fighting for 1000 years and they will continue fighting in the future .

Peace will only come to the land once the Palestinians have been removed 

59 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Do you think people hate Israel because of religious reasons or what they are currently doing in Gaza and West Bank?

 

    Many people hate Jews , have done for millenniums .

The Palestine issue gives them an excuse to air their hatred  

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

No. Is that what Hamas said? 

No. Is that what Hamas said? 

No. Is that what Hamas told you to do? 

I'm not sure a shrink can help you. But you are strongly advised to ask for help 🤢

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Regarding IAGS, Emily sample, the group's communication officer  confirmed that the association was open to non-scholars such as policymakers and civil society members who are interested in genocide, but said that, “We are not accepting large swaths of activists who are anti-Israel.”

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/genocide-scholar-says-group-pushed-through-israel-condemnation-without-debate/

 

That statement about "not accepting large swaths of activists who are anti-Israel" may be false.

Controversy Erupts Around Genocide Scholars Org After Pro-Israel Activists Reveal It Only Cost $30 to Join

...

"A number of pro-Israel activists said they had joined the group, while others set up prank accounts.

"One activist signed up as “Adolf Hitler” and joined the association’s women’s caucus and indigenous caucus. Others signed up as the Star Wars character Emperor Palpatine, the Cookie Monster, or set up accounts for their pet dogs."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/controversy-erupts-around-genocide-scholars-org-after-pro-israel-activists-reveal-it-only-cost-30-to-join/ar-AA1LU4jd?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=db11a07257824554eda6eef9c6e27115&ei=17

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    Many people hate Jews , have done for millenniums .

The Palestine issue gives them an excuse to air their hatred  

Many people hate Muslims/Christians etc. You are paranoid.

You calling the ongoing genocide, “issue”, is horrible.

 

2 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

That statement about "not accepting large swaths of activists who are anti-Israel" may be false.

Controversy Erupts Around Genocide Scholars Org After Pro-Israel Activists Reveal It Only Cost $30 to Join

...

"A number of pro-Israel activists said they had joined the group, while others set up prank accounts.

"One activist signed up as “Adolf Hitler” and joined the association’s women’s caucus and indigenous caucus. Others signed up as the Star Wars character Emperor Palpatine, the Cookie Monster, or set up accounts for their pet dogs."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/controversy-erupts-around-genocide-scholars-org-after-pro-israel-activists-reveal-it-only-cost-30-to-join/ar-AA1LU4jd?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=db11a07257824554eda6eef9c6e27115&ei=17

Poor denial attempt of the current obvious genocide.

2 hours ago, MisterTee said:

Thanks for your principled defense of the obvious truth in the face of a firestorm of agenda-driven nonsense.

+1

Sincere thanks to those few members who have the courage to stand up to this denial of the genocide taking place in Gaza and the West Bank.

It seems that as worldwide incidents of condemnation become more frequent, the blowback gets ever more intense, almost to the point of frenzy in some cases.

You don't have to look far to see examples of that.

1 hour ago, JimCM said:

Poor denial attempt of the current obvious genocide.

 

It's not an attempt to deny genocide. It's an explanation of why the IAGS Gaza resolution may represent the opinion of anti-Israel activists and not "scholars" of genocide.  In response to criticism, the IAGS has blocked searches of its membership list and closed new memberships.  Moreover, the  IAGS has refused to reveal who proposed the Gaza resolution.  That strikes me as the IAGS executive board running scared.  If they already had had mechanisms in place to stop memberships by individuals who aren't genocide scholars and filter out fakes, why would they otherwise close applications and searches of the members' list?

 

 

https://genocidescholars.org/join/

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Palestine began the war with the aim of eradicating Israel , they wanted a genocide of the jews .

   Palestine have been fighting for 1000 years and they will continue fighting in the future .

Peace will only come to the land once the Palestinians have been removed 

Openly promoting crimes against humanity.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Openly promoting crimes against humanity.

 

 

 Hamas seek a better life for the people of Palestine, while there are factions in Israel that appear unwilling to pursue peace.

20 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

It's not an attempt to deny genocide. It's an explanation of why the IAGS Gaza resolution may represent the opinion of anti-Israel activists and not "scholars" of genocide.  In response to criticism, the IAGS has blocked searches of its membership list and closed new memberships.  Moreover, the  IAGS has refused to reveal who proposed the Gaza resolution.  That strikes me as the IAGS executive board running scared.  If they already had had mechanisms in place to stop memberships by individuals who aren't genocide scholars and filter out fakes, why would they otherwise close applications and searches of the members' list?

 

 

https://genocidescholars.org/join/

Fair enough but I think you do deny it, which are entitled to.

1.5 years ago, those calling it genocide were shunned, now those denying genocide are shunned, go figure, what has changed?
I searched leaders of that organization and they are indeed experts.

 

pro Israel people are clutching at straws now to prove it isn’t genocide.

4 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Fair enough but I think you do deny it, which are entitled to.

1.5 years ago, those calling it genocide were shunned, now those denying genocide are shunned, go figure, what has changed?
I searched leaders of that organization and they are indeed experts.

 

pro Israel people are clutching at straws now to prove it isn’t genocide.

The same people calling genocide 1.5 years ago are the same people calling it genocide today.

 

 

5 minutes ago, nick supreme said:

 Hamas seek a better life for the people of Palestine, while there are factions in Israel that appear unwilling to pursue peace.

Openly supporting hostage taking murdering Hamas terrorists and neglecting that fact that it uses its own civilians as human shields and happy for the sacrifice of thousands of their deaths:

 

 

 

Hamas military leader in Gaza has sent to mediators show, is a calculation that more fighting—and more Palestinian civilian deaths—work to his advantage.
“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” 

 

"In dozens of messages—reviewed by The Wall Street Journal—that Sinwar has transmitted to cease-fire negotiators, Hamas compatriots outside Gaza and others, he’s shown a cold disregard for human life and made clear he believes Israel has more to lose from the war than Hamas. The messages were shared by multiple people with differing views of Sinwar."

 

In one message to Hamas leaders in Doha, Sinwar cited civilian losses in national-liberation conflicts in places such as Algeria, where hundreds of thousands of people died fighting for independence from France, saying, “these are necessary sacrifices.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gaza-chiefs-brutal-calculation-civilian-bloodshed-will-help-hamas-626720e7

https://archive.ph/CAYGJ

 

He is not the only Hamas official to laud civilian sacrifices:

 

Hamas considers two million Gazan civilians, including children, as martyrs, whether they want to be or not. 

“We are called a nation of martyrs,” said another top Hamas official, Ghazi Hamad. “And we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.” He promised more attacks: “There will be a second, a third, a fourth.” When asked whether he sought the annihilation of Israel, Hamad matter-of-factly replied, “Yes, of course.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4295601-human-sacrifice-is-central-to-hamass-strategy/

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Openly supporting hostage taking murdering Hamas terrorists and neglecting that fact that it uses its own civilians as human shields and happy for the sacrifice of thousands of their deaths:

 

 

 

Hamas military leader in Gaza has sent to mediators show, is a calculation that more fighting—and more Palestinian civilian deaths—work to his advantage.
“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” 

 

"In dozens of messages—reviewed by The Wall Street Journal—that Sinwar has transmitted to cease-fire negotiators, Hamas compatriots outside Gaza and others, he’s shown a cold disregard for human life and made clear he believes Israel has more to lose from the war than Hamas. The messages were shared by multiple people with differing views of Sinwar."

 

In one message to Hamas leaders in Doha, Sinwar cited civilian losses in national-liberation conflicts in places such as Algeria, where hundreds of thousands of people died fighting for independence from France, saying, “these are necessary sacrifices.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gaza-chiefs-brutal-calculation-civilian-bloodshed-will-help-hamas-626720e7

https://archive.ph/CAYGJ

 

He is not the only Hamas official to laud civilian sacrifices:

 

Hamas considers two million Gazan civilians, including children, as martyrs, whether they want to be or not. 

“We are called a nation of martyrs,” said another top Hamas official, Ghazi Hamad. “And we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.” He promised more attacks: “There will be a second, a third, a fourth.” When asked whether he sought the annihilation of Israel, Hamad matter-of-factly replied, “Yes, of course.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4295601-human-sacrifice-is-central-to-hamass-strategy/

Selective use of quotes does not erase obligations under international law.
Maybe Hamas leaders have made statements glorifying “martyrdom” and openly justifying civilian sacrifice but the links you provide are not viewable unless you pay. Quoting them out of context to suggest that all Palestinian civilian deaths are somehow Hamas’s responsibility ignores the fact that Israel, as the occupying military force, remains legally obligated to protect civilians. International humanitarian law applies regardless of what the enemy says or does.

 

Genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes are judged by the actions and intent of the party committing them. Israel cannot claim innocence by pointing to Hamas’s actions. International law does not allow “they wanted us to do it” as a defense. Each side bears responsibility for its own conduct, not the rhetoric of its opponent.

3 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Selective use of quotes does not erase obligations under international law.
Maybe Hamas leaders have made statements glorifying “martyrdom” and openly justifying civilian sacrifice but the links you provide are not viewable unless you pay. Quoting them out of context to suggest that all Palestinian civilian deaths are somehow Hamas’s responsibility ignores the fact that Israel, as the occupying military force, remains legally obligated to protect civilians. International humanitarian law applies regardless of what the enemy says or does.

 

Genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes are judged by the actions and intent of the party committing them. Israel cannot claim innocence by pointing to Hamas’s actions. International law does not allow “they wanted us to do it” as a defense. Each side bears responsibility for its own conduct, not the rhetoric of its opponent.

False the links are viewable and fully readable to all and fully addresses the post I responded to

3 hours ago, nick supreme said:

 Hamas seek a better life for the people of Palestine, while there are factions in Israel that appear unwilling to pursue peace.

100%

 

Likud (Netanyahu’s party) – firmly rejects a two-state solution under Netanyahu’s leadership.

 

Religious Zionism alliance (Itamar Ben-Gvir, Bezalel Smotrich) – openly calls for annexation of the West Bank and opposes Palestinian statehood entirely.

 

Shas and United Torah Judaism (ultra-Orthodox parties) – generally back right-wing governments that block concessions.

 

Far-right settler movements – push for permanent expansion of settlements and resist any land-for-peace deal.

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

False the links are viewable and fully readable to all and fully addresses the post I responded to

Is that all you can say about my post?
 

For some reason those sites are asking me to pay to subscribe, maybe you paid the $2 before.

28 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Is that all you can say about my post?
 

For some reason those sites are asking me to pay to subscribe, maybe you paid the $2 before.

Calling out your false claims is enough without bothering even reading the rest. You do not have to pay any money to view the full articles from both media outlets with the links I provided. Again false. The Hill is free and always has been and the WSJ has an archive link. Again full free access to the full article and again, my post fully addressed the Hamas supporting post I responded to. I have zero need to comment on the rest of your post that has nothing to do with the facts I posted about the terrorists Hamas.

8 minutes ago, JimCM said:

100%

 

Likud (Netanyahu’s party) – firmly rejects a two-state solution under Netanyahu’s leadership.

 

Religious Zionism alliance (Itamar Ben-Gvir, Bezalel Smotrich) – openly calls for annexation of the West Bank and opposes Palestinian statehood entirely.

 

Shas and United Torah Judaism (ultra-Orthodox parties) – generally back right-wing governments that block concessions.

 

Far-right settler movements – push for permanent expansion of settlements and resist any land-for-peace deal.

Why should Palestine be rewarded for invading Israel? 

8 hours ago, JimCM said:

Fair enough but I think you do deny it, which are entitled to.

1.5 years ago, those calling it genocide were shunned, now those denying genocide are shunned, go figure, what has changed?
I searched leaders of that organization and they are indeed experts.

 

pro Israel people are clutching at straws now to prove it isn’t genocide.

 

You are correct; I totally, absolutely, completely deny Israel is committing genocide.  But rather than clutching at straws, I have a firm hold on both historical and current facts.

 

I'll let a far more authoritative voice than my own explain why Israel isn't committing genocide.

 

Alan Dershowitz: Why The “Genocide” Claim In Gaza Is A Dangerous Distortion

Using the term 'genocide' to describe Israel’s military actions trivializes the Holocaust and other true acts of genocide, argues Alan Dershowitz.

 

What Israel is doing is in no way comparable to the genocide planned and implemented at the Wannsee Conference of 1942.

It is comparable, though not in degree, to the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths caused by American and British military actions following D-Day — including firebombing Dresden, Berlin and Tokyo and dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alan-dershowitz-why-the-genocide-claim-in-gaza-is-a-dangerous-distortion/ar-AA1LXNWV?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=f0965c19b27d46d0a61345a4722bf7cb&ei=8
 

Dershowitz systematically refutes the accusation of genocide.  I don't disagree with anything he says.  

About nine months, I wrote a reply explaining why I don't believe Israel is committing genocide.  At that time, I asked a question which no one answered:  Why would the Israeli bombing of civilians in Gaza be considered genocide when the Allied bombing of German and Japanese civilians isn't?  I would really appreciate it if a pro-Palestinian member would answer it.

 

The relevant part of my post from December, 2024:

 

On 12/2/2024 at 12:34 PM, Evil Penevil said:

Israel's intent is not to eliminate the Palestinian people but Hamas as a terrorist organization.  A large number of civilians have died in Gaza because Hamas used them as human shields to protect its tunnel system and other military targets.  The situation is akin to the civilian deaths caused by Allied aerial bombing in Germany and Japan during WWII.  An estimated 100,000 civilians were killed in the fire bombing of Tokyo, while over 100,00 civilians immediately died from the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  The Dresden fire bombing killed at least 25,000 civilians and the bombing of Hamburg about 43,000.  Tens of thousands of other civilians died in the bombing of other cities in Japan and Germany.   

                                                                                                                                                                                              Why would the Israel bombing of civilians in Gaza be considered genocide when the Allied bombing of German and Japanese civilians isn't?

 

 

 

 

@Evil Penevil

Anyone who cites Alan Dershowitz as an authority on anything has shot his load and entered the realm of farce.