14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

... visit the following website, if you can stomach it. Documented accounts and images of the horrors of October 7, 2023.  NOT for the faint of heart.

 

Imagine this was YOUR country, where peaceful people were murdered by their neighbours, neighbours they helped. Neighbours whose children they treated in their clinics.

 

If you are Canadian, imagine 5,000 dead and 1,000 hostages.

If you are British, imagine 10,000 of your countryment slaughtered, and 2,000 taken as hostages.

If you are American, it rises to over 40,000 butchered, and 8,000 taken as hostages.

 

What would YOU want your government to do?

 

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/

What about the murders of civilians on Oct 8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/23/24/25/26/27/28/29/30/31?
Nov 1/2/3/4/….

Dec 1/2/3/4/5/….

etc etc, 20,000 + children

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Explain.

 

Lots of land "got stolen" in the after math of WW2. Millions of people were displaced and forced to move, from Asia to Europe.  

 

What is the connection between stolen land and gang rape?

Why do people think Jews come from the area of current day Israel - nearly all Israeli leaders had Eastern European roots (Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Russia).  Even Netanyahu's father was born Benzion Mileikowsky in Warsaw, Poland. Here's a list of all Israeli PM who changed their names and their origins.Palestinians, on the other hand can be traced back to this area. . 

 

 David Ben-Gurion (1886–1973)

• Birth name: David Grün

• Born in: Płońsk, Poland (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Ben-Gurion (Hebrew name meaning “son of a lion cub”)

---

 Moshe Sharett (1894–1965)

• Birth name: Moshe Shertok

• Born in: Kherson, Ukraine (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Sharett (Hebrew for “participant”)

---

 Levi Eshkol (1895–1969)

• Birth name: Levi Shkolnik

• Born in: Orativ, Ukraine (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Eshkol (Hebrew for “cluster of grapes”)

---

Golda Meir (1898–1978)

• Birth name: Golda Mabovitch (later Meyerson in the U.S.)

• Born in: Kyiv, Ukraine (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Meir (“illuminate” in Hebrew)

---

 Yigal Allon (acting, 1969–1970)

• Birth name: Yigal Paicovitch

• Born in: Kfar Tavor, Ottoman Palestine (parents from Lithuania)

• Changed to: Allon (“oak tree” in Hebrew)

---

Yitzhak Rabin (1922–1995)

• Birth name: Yitzhak Rubitzov (rarely used; family changed early)

• Born in: Jerusalem, British Mandate of Palestine

• Parents from: Ukraine and Belarus

---

 Menachem Begin (1913–1992)

• Birth name: Menachem Begin (unchanged)

• Born in: Brest, Belarus (then Poland)

• Came to Palestine: 1942

---

 Yitzhak Shamir (1915–2012)

• Birth name: Yitzhak Yezernitsky

• Born in: Ruzhany, Belarus (then Poland)

• Changed to: Shamir (Hebrew for a hard stone or thorn)

---

Shimon Peres (1923–2016)

• Birth name: Szymon Perski

• Born in: Vishnyeva, Belarus (then Poland)

• Changed to: Peres (Hebrew for “vulture”)

---

Benjamin Netanyahu (b. 1949)

• Birth name: Binyamin Netanyahu

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Family origin: Father born Benzion Mileikowsky in Warsaw, Poland

---

 Ehud Barak (b. 1942)

• Birth name: Ehud Brog

• Born in: Mishmar HaSharon, British Mandate of Palestine

• Parents from: Lithuania and Poland

• Changed to: Barak (Hebrew for “lightning”)

---

Ariel Sharon (1928–2014)

• Birth name: Ariel Scheinermann

• Born in: Kfar Malal, British Mandate of Palestine

• Parents from: Brest-Litovsk, Belarus

• Changed to: Sharon (biblical region name)

---

 Ehud Olmert (b. 1945)

• Birth name: Ehud Olmert (unchanged)

• Born in: Binyamina, Israel

• Parents from: Russia

---

 Tzipi Livni (acting, briefly 2008)

• Birth name: Tziporah Malka Livni (unchanged)

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Parents from: Poland

---

 Naftali Bennett (b. 1972)

• Birth name: Naftali Bennett (unchanged)

• Born in: Haifa, Israel

• Parents from: San Francisco, USA (grandparents from Poland and Germany)

---

 Yair Lapid (b. 1963)

• Birth name: Yair Lapid (unchanged)

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Family origin: Hungary and Romania

---

 Isaac Herzog (b. 1960)

• Birth name: Yitzhak Herzog (unchanged)

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Family origin: Poland

1 minute ago, JimCM said:

What about the murders of civilians on Oct 8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/23/24/25/26/27/28/29/30/31?
Nov 1/2/3/4/….

Dec 1/2/3/4/5/….

etc etc, 20,000 + children

 

   People die in wars .

Shouldn't start wars if you don't want your people to die

3 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Why do people think Jews come from the area of current day Israel - nearly all Israeli leaders had Eastern European roots (Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Russia).  Even Netanyahu's father was born Benzion Mileikowsky in Warsaw, Poland. Here's a list of all Israeli PM who changed their names and their origins.Palestinians, on the other hand can be traced back to this area. . 

 

 David Ben-Gurion (1886–1973)

• Birth name: David Grün

• Born in: Płońsk, Poland (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Ben-Gurion (Hebrew name meaning “son of a lion cub”)

---

 Moshe Sharett (1894–1965)

• Birth name: Moshe Shertok

• Born in: Kherson, Ukraine (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Sharett (Hebrew for “participant”)

---

 Levi Eshkol (1895–1969)

• Birth name: Levi Shkolnik

• Born in: Orativ, Ukraine (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Eshkol (Hebrew for “cluster of grapes”)

---

Golda Meir (1898–1978)

• Birth name: Golda Mabovitch (later Meyerson in the U.S.)

• Born in: Kyiv, Ukraine (then Russian Empire)

• Changed to: Meir (“illuminate” in Hebrew)

---

 Yigal Allon (acting, 1969–1970)

• Birth name: Yigal Paicovitch

• Born in: Kfar Tavor, Ottoman Palestine (parents from Lithuania)

• Changed to: Allon (“oak tree” in Hebrew)

---

Yitzhak Rabin (1922–1995)

• Birth name: Yitzhak Rubitzov (rarely used; family changed early)

• Born in: Jerusalem, British Mandate of Palestine

• Parents from: Ukraine and Belarus

---

 Menachem Begin (1913–1992)

• Birth name: Menachem Begin (unchanged)

• Born in: Brest, Belarus (then Poland)

• Came to Palestine: 1942

---

 Yitzhak Shamir (1915–2012)

• Birth name: Yitzhak Yezernitsky

• Born in: Ruzhany, Belarus (then Poland)

• Changed to: Shamir (Hebrew for a hard stone or thorn)

---

Shimon Peres (1923–2016)

• Birth name: Szymon Perski

• Born in: Vishnyeva, Belarus (then Poland)

• Changed to: Peres (Hebrew for “vulture”)

---

Benjamin Netanyahu (b. 1949)

• Birth name: Binyamin Netanyahu

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Family origin: Father born Benzion Mileikowsky in Warsaw, Poland

---

 Ehud Barak (b. 1942)

• Birth name: Ehud Brog

• Born in: Mishmar HaSharon, British Mandate of Palestine

• Parents from: Lithuania and Poland

• Changed to: Barak (Hebrew for “lightning”)

---

Ariel Sharon (1928–2014)

• Birth name: Ariel Scheinermann

• Born in: Kfar Malal, British Mandate of Palestine

• Parents from: Brest-Litovsk, Belarus

• Changed to: Sharon (biblical region name)

---

 Ehud Olmert (b. 1945)

• Birth name: Ehud Olmert (unchanged)

• Born in: Binyamina, Israel

• Parents from: Russia

---

 Tzipi Livni (acting, briefly 2008)

• Birth name: Tziporah Malka Livni (unchanged)

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Parents from: Poland

---

 Naftali Bennett (b. 1972)

• Birth name: Naftali Bennett (unchanged)

• Born in: Haifa, Israel

• Parents from: San Francisco, USA (grandparents from Poland and Germany)

---

 Yair Lapid (b. 1963)

• Birth name: Yair Lapid (unchanged)

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Family origin: Hungary and Romania

---

 Isaac Herzog (b. 1960)

• Birth name: Yitzhak Herzog (unchanged)

• Born in: Tel Aviv, Israel

• Family origin: Poland

You are making my point. Most were born in Israel. 

 

Many others are refugees that were (gasp) welcomed.  Unlike the treatment of Palestinian refugees in Arab/Muslim countries. 

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You are getting close to the truth. The real causation was the INVASION of the nation of Israel.  By the Arabs. And the failure of that invasion.  

 

An interesting parallel exists though. Across North Africa and the Middle East, close to one million Jews were kicked out of their homes and off their land, with no compensation. This happened from 1948-60.  Did THEY become terrorists? Did THEY demand to return to their homes? 

 

Again, displacement was a fact of life up to very recently.  

 

I see what you're saying, but don't you think the influx of Zionists into the Palestinian Mandate was an invasion of sorts that preceded and indeed caused the later Invasion of the newly created state of Israel?

 

I mean how would you react if millions of immigrants descended on Canada and said this land was promised to them by God 5000 years ago? You'd try to regain your land too, no?

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

What do you mean with 'pro palestinian'? You mean people condemning Israel for it's actions are pro palestinian?

Stop deflecting and answer the question.

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

So then, why did they choose this particular way to express their discontent? What was it about slaughtering the innocent, raping teenage girls until they died, and mutilating their victims, that so appealed to the Palestinians?  

They tried peaceful demonstration and negotiating but Israel shot them.

 

Do you support this immoral  army?
 

I know exactly how many knees I’ve hit, says Eden, who completed his service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) as a sniper in its Golani infantry brigade six months ago. For much of the time, he was stationed along the border with the Gaza Strip. His assignment: to repulse Palestinian demonstrators who approached the fence.

“I kept the casing of every round I fired,” he says. “I have them in my room. So I don’t have to make an estimate – I know: 52 definite hits.”

 

https://imemc.org/article/analysis-42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/

 

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Uh, Israel actually HAD Gaza for a long time, from 1967 to 2005. Then gave it back.  Maybe it was a mistake.

They totally controlled Gaza what and who entered after 2005, what nonsense. 
BLOCKADE, etc.

Do you know what “mowing the lawn” means?

Do you condemn Illegal settlements in and what Daniella Weis is doing?

The majority of Israeli Jews want all Arabs out of the area so they can have ALL land from the river to the sea, they have no want for two states living in peace.

 

18 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I see what you're saying, but don't you think the influx of Zionists into the Palestinian Mandate was an invasion of sorts that preceded and indeed caused the later Invasion of the newly created state of Israel?

 

I mean how would you react if millions of immigrants descended on Canada and said this land was promised to them by God 5000 years ago? You'd try to regain your land too, no?

No. Short answer.   Immigration is not invasion, especially when it is people returning to their homeland, and fleeing unimaginable horrors. It also was not sudden.  And did not displace local populations. They bought and paid for their land, didn't steal it from anyone, and did not displace anyone. 

 

The "later invasion" was caused by the UN officially recognizing the state of Israel, and the subsequent temper tantrum by the Arab League. They lost.  And so did the Palestinians along side them. 

Just now, JimCM said:

They totally controlled Gaza what and who entered after 2005, what nonsense. 
BLOCKADE, etc.

Do you know what “mowing the lawn” means?

Do you condemn Illegal settlements in and what Daniella Weis is doing?

The majority of Israeli Jews want all Arabs out of the area so they can have ALL land from the river to the sea, they have no want for two states living in peace.

 

Sad irony is that the most open part of the border was the part that Hamas used on October 7. The part where Gazans were welcomed by Israelis, treated as guests and neighbours, and had their kindness paid for by horror.

 

Yes I condemn illegal settlements. But AFAIK there are no illegal settlements in Gaza, so it is irrelevant. 

23 minutes ago, JimCM said:

They tried peaceful demonstration and negotiating but Israel shot them.

 

Do you support this immoral  army?
 

 

I know exactly how many knees I’ve hit, says Eden, who completed his service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) as a sniper in its Golani infantry brigade six months ago. For much of the time, he was stationed along the border with the Gaza Strip. His assignment: to repulse Palestinian demonstrators who approached the fence.

“I kept the casing of every round I fired,” he says. “I have them in my room. So I don’t have to make an estimate – I know: 52 definite hits.”

 

https://imemc.org/article/analysis-42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/

 

...and these were just snipers, randomly shooting at innocent Gazans as they went about their daily business?

15 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

... visit the following website, if you can stomach it. Documented accounts and images of the horrors of October 7, 2023.  NOT for the faint of heart.

 

Imagine this was YOUR country, where peaceful people were murdered by their neighbours, neighbours they helped. Neighbours whose children they treated in their clinics.

 

If you are Canadian, imagine 5,000 dead and 1,000 hostages.

If you are British, imagine 10,000 of your countryment slaughtered, and 2,000 taken as hostages.

If you are American, it rises to over 40,000 butchered, and 8,000 taken as hostages.

 

What would YOU want your government to do?

 

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/

Imagine a small group of Canadian “freedom fighters” resisted U.S. attacks while the U.S. imposed a blockade. If the U.S. then killed 10% of Canada’s population, including 436,000 children, the scale of devastation would be unimaginable. Entire communities would be destroyed for the actions of a few, showing how catastrophic and wildly disproportionate such a response would be.  

31 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I see what you're saying, but don't you think the influx of Zionists into the Palestinian Mandate was an invasion of sorts that preceded and indeed caused the later Invasion of the newly created state of Israel?

 

I mean how would you react if millions of immigrants descended on Canada and said this land was promised to them by God 5000 years ago? You'd try to regain your land too, no?

 

   Whatever .

Its 2025 and need to deal with the present day reality .

9 Million Israeli Jews live in Israel .

You all just need to accept that and stop fighting against it .

(BTW , should American/Canadian  Indians accept Caucasians living on their land or should they be fighting to regain their land ?)

6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

The site appears designed to:

• Justify Israeli military actions

 

'Military actions'

 

War crimes.

Crimes against humanity.

Attempted genocide. 

1 minute ago, JimCM said:

Imagine a small group of Canadian “freedom fighters” resisted U.S. attacks while the U.S. imposed a blockade. If the U.S. then killed 10% of Canada’s population, including 436,000 children, the scale of devastation would be unimaginable. Entire communities would be destroyed for the actions of a few, showing how catastrophic and wildly disproportionate such a response would be.  

If the Canadian "freedom fighters" engaged in gang rape, kidnapped innocent people, desecrated corpses, tortured civilians, and even killed family pets? Then I would think they were loathesome. And  I would feel shame that they exist.

 

And to be accurate, the IDF has killed at best 3% of the Gazan population, even if you believe Hamas' wildly inflated numbers. And destroyed communities that housed, hid, and supported terrorists. 

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

...and these were just snipers, randomly shooting at innocent Gazans as they went about their daily business?

It was a peaceful protest.

I am horrified you are trying to defend these well publicized crimes.

Nay, disgusted.

 

According to the Al Mezan Center for Human Rights, since the start of the protests, over 150 Palestinians have been killed in the demonstrations. At least 10,000 others have been injured, including 1,849 children, 424 women, 115 paramedics and 115 journalists. Of those injured, 5,814 were hit by live ammunition. According to Israeli media, one soldier was moderately injured due to shrapnel from a grenade thrown by a Palestinian from inside Gaza and one Israeli soldier was killed by Palestinian sniper fire near the fence that separates Gaza and Israel outside of the context of the protests.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2018/10/gaza-great-march-of-return/

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

If the Canadian "freedom fighters" engaged in gang rape, kidnapped innocent people, desecrated corpses, tortured civilians, and even killed family pets? Then I would think they were loathesome. And  I would feel shame that they exist.

You said before as did Biden they beheaded 40 babies, have you changed your mind on that. Also microwaved them.

16 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

... visit the following website, if you can stomach it. Documented accounts and images of the horrors of October 7, 2023.  NOT for the faint of heart.

 

Imagine this was YOUR country, where peaceful people were murdered by their neighbours, neighbours they helped. Neighbours whose children they treated in their clinics.

 

If you are Canadian, imagine 5,000 dead and 1,000 hostages.

If you are British, imagine 10,000 of your countryment slaughtered, and 2,000 taken as hostages.

If you are American, it rises to over 40,000 butchered, and 8,000 taken as hostages.

 

What would YOU want your government to do?

 

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/

And now imagine millions of civilians dead, jailed hunted who did nothing wrong because of failed foreign politics in Middle East. Evil creates evil one way or another. Using one terror attack as a reason to bomb Gaza to pieces as they have done before, raping humanity and pissing on human rights for how long? What do you expect in return? There is no good or bad in this conflict, there is no heroes, and there is no end to this. Just take a look at the map, and you will udnerstand giving the minority all power in a small piece of land surrounded by enimies, was the biggest mistake of the last century done by the west! 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Immigration is not invasion, especially when it is people returning to their homeland, and fleeing unimaginable horrors. It also was not sudden.  And did not displace local populations. They bought and paid for their land, didn't steal it from anyone, and did not displace anyone. 

 

It's true, aliyah was done in many waves before WWI and it happened over a long period. However, there were 723000 jewish arrivals in Palestine 1948 to 1953. A fairly high number for a mere 5 years, considering the size of Palestine.

 

I accept that much of the land was bought, some was not, but that is a fairly large influx of people. And of course they then called out their own state. Again, imagine if the Arab migrants to Canda called out their own state.

6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

AI has this to say about that site.  I didn't look at the site by the way.  We all know what happened, attempts to portray pro-Israeli justification for genocide are not useful right now.

 

Another poster on another thread, summed it up with "An independent thinker should consider all sides of the equation. Ask why people do that as well as condemning any inhuman action. Root cause is what they argue about. I’m not connected to either side. Just looking at it objectively it is Israel that started it all by trying to resurrect their glory days of king David ie restore the original land by stealing it from whoever is living there Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc. scary thing is they’re committed to expanding even more than what they have stolen already. But it is starting to backfire and likely the region will be pissed off so much that they’ll turn on them. American support is dwindling as they start to see the real Israel. "

 

The website www.hamas-massacre.net presents a strongly pro-Israel perspective, with a focus on documenting and emphasizing the atrocities committed by Hamas during the October 7, 2023 attacks. Its content includes graphic images, videos, and testimonies that highlight acts of murder, rape, and kidnapping allegedly carried out by Hamas militants. The site describes the events as “the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust,” and uses emotionally charged language such as “massacre,” “terrorists,” and “war crimes.”

🧭 Bias Indicators

• Narrative framing: The site centers exclusively on Israeli victims and Hamas-perpetrated violence, without contextualizing the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict or acknowledging Palestinian casualties or grievances.

• Language use: Terms like “butchered,” “gang rape,” and “slaughtered” are used repeatedly, which signals a highly emotive and one-sided portrayal.

• Omission of counter-narratives: There is no mention of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, Israeli military actions, or international legal debates—suggesting a lack of balance.

🔍 Intended Purpose

The site appears designed to:

• Justify Israeli military actions against Hamas

• Influence public opinion by evoking strong emotional reactions

• Counter narratives that might downplay or deny the severity of the October 7 attacks

🧠 Summary

This is not a neutral or journalistic source. It functions more as a memorial and advocacy platform for Israeli victims, with a clear political and emotional agenda. While the documentation may be factual in parts, its framing is unambiguously partisan.

Those supporting genocide, due to their religion and ties to Israel are desperately trying to justify their support and will believe any website, no matter the obvious bias. The diaspora with an ounce of conscience wouldn’t try.

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's true, aliyah was done in many waves before WWI and it happened over a long period. However, there were 723000 jewish arrivals in Palestine 1948 to 1953. A fairly high number for a mere 5 years, considering the size of Palestine.

 

I accept that much of the land was bought, some was not, but that is a fairly large influx of people. And of ocurse, they then called out their own state. Again, imagine if the Arab migrants to Canda called out their own state.

Yes, because Israel was a COUNTRY at that point and could decide immigration policy. Plus the Holocaust was still in the rear view mirror.  That was after the Israelis won the war of genocide started by the Arab League, remember? 

8 minutes ago, JimCM said:

You said before as did Biden they beheaded 40 babies, have you changed your mind on that. Also microwaved them.

I don't think I would ever agree with Biden on much... as to those stories, I am not sure if they are true or not. Probably exaggerated. But that is just "ant fvcking" as the Dutch say. One small detail being inaccurate does not mitigate the overall horror caused by Hamas. Deliberately caused. Planned by their leadership.

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Again, imagine if the Arab migrants to Canda called out their own state.

 

   Imagine if the White settlers in America/Canada called for their own state 

Imagine ?

They did indeed do that 

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

And now imagine millions of civilians dead, jailed hunted who did nothing wrong because of failed foreign politics in Middle East. Evil creates evil one way or another. Using one terror attack as a reason to bomb Gaza to pieces as they have done before, raping humanity and pissing on human rights for how long? What do you expect in return? There is no good or bad in this conflict, there is no heroes, and there is no end to this. Just take a look at the map, and you will udnerstand giving the minority all power in a small piece of land surrounded by enimies, was the biggest mistake of the last century done by the west! 

 

 

If I were a Gazan, I would "out" as many Hamas members and supporters as I could find. But reality is that Hamas has support. Gazans hid their depravities and crimes for years. Now they are "reaping the whirlwind". 

 

Your moral equivalency is nauseating.

15 minutes ago, JimCM said:

It was a peaceful protest.

I am horrified you are trying to defend these well publicized crimes.

Nay, disgusted.

 

According to the Al Mezan Center for Human Rights, since the start of the protests, over 150 Palestinians have been killed in the demonstrations. At least 10,000 others have been injured, including 1,849 children, 424 women, 115 paramedics and 115 journalists. Of those injured, 5,814 were hit by live ammunition. According to Israeli media, one soldier was moderately injured due to shrapnel from a grenade thrown by a Palestinian from inside Gaza and one Israeli soldier was killed by Palestinian sniper fire near the fence that separates Gaza and Israel outside of the context of the protests.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2018/10/gaza-great-march-of-return/

It is very kind of the IDF to go out of their way to avoid unnecessary deaths. If only Hamas had the same morality...

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It is very kind of the IDF to go out of their way to avoid unnecessary deaths. If only Hamas had the same morality...

Sick.

 

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

If I were a Gazan, I would "out" as many Hamas members and supporters as I could find. But reality is that Hamas has support. Gazans hid their depravities and crimes for years. Now they are "reaping the whirlwind". 

 

Your moral equivalency is nauseating.

Imagine your own limited knowledge about the world, and then be born in Gaza and live in Gaza, how would that form your opinions on the world and your feelings towards an all powerful enemy who constantly raped your people for everything they where and are. 

 

How can Gazans make free choices based on what we know ? 

 

I have said it before, If I was born in Gaza I would fight for my land and my identity , and if I was born in Israel I would most likely also fight for my right to have a country and my identity as a Jew, just a matter of where your heart  and family is. 

 

As an non Jew or muslim I could not care less, except see whats actually happens and there is two evil who fight for their existence, one rich and one poor, and where does the sympathy often go among normal people? The poor and defenseless! Just common sense, and doesnt need to be attached to emotions, just pure logic. 

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It is very kind of the IDF to go out of their way to avoid unnecessary deaths. If only Hamas had the same morality...

Propaganda at its best I would dare to say. 

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

From electing Hamas, to allowing them to stay in power, to turning the other way when Hamas stole foreign aid in order to build terror tunnels

Why the need to build tunnels, could it be because your brethren built a fence around Gaza and made it a concentration camp?

And you are surprised if there’s a breakout! 

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Imagine your own limited knowledge about the world, and then be born in Gaza and live in Gaza, how would that form your opinions on the world and your feelings towards an all powerful enemy who constantly raped your people for everything they where and are. 

 

How can Gazans make free choices based on what we know ? 

 

I have said it before, If I was born in Gaza I would fight for my land and my identity , and if I was born in Israel I would most likely also fight for my right to have a country and my identity as a Jew, just a matter of where your heart  and family is. 

 

As an non Jew or muslim I could not care less, except see whats actually happens and there is two evil who fight for their existence, one rich and one poor, and where does the sympathy often go among normal people? The poor and defenseless! Just common sense, and doesnt need to be attached to emotions, just pure logic. 

So you acknowledge that Gazans are kept in the dark and fed propaganda, that is a good first step. However, they are NOT cloistered like North Korea. They have internet access, friends/family outside, etc. As for your hyperbolic "raped your people"- the only rape happening was the rape committed by Hamas on October 7.

 

For me, logic states that the country which is a functioning democracy, and has civil rights for women and minorities and the LGBT community, is the one to support. Just common sense. And try to get the other one up to that level of civilization.