1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

How do you know? You ever been involved in a drug investigation?

No, I have not.

 

And maybe Cuba is next?

 

 

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

People who know what they are talking about dont need others to think for them. But that matters not to you, propaganda spewer.

 

Why would anyone care to even discuss the matter with you? Boom, there goes another.

 

Dont need to make up stories, if we want it, we will just take it. Like all the countries we colonize and rule with a murderous violent fist, right?

"People who know what they are talking about dont need others to think for them. But that matters not to you, propaganda spewer."

Even people who know what they are talking about don't just make empty assertions and expect others to believe them. Especially when they have no way of proving it.

 

"Why would anyone care to even discuss the matter with you? Boom, there goes another"

My comment about not caring whether or not you have participated in a drug investigation had a point: no way of knowing whether or not it's true and even if it is true, so what? I'll go with certified expertise. Your reply was just a stupid insult. As for "Boom". Awarding yourself points is just sad.

 

Dont need to make up stories, if we want it, we will just take it. Like all the countries we colonize and rule with a murderous violent fist, right?

Last time I heard that kind of talk, the target was Iraq. How'd that work out?

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I think if Trump is really serious about waging a war in Venezuela, he should offer to induct both of his sons so that they can go and fight on the front lines, it seems only fair. 

 

If this information about the Venezuelan cartel is coming from the Trump Administration it's likely false, like nearly everything else that comes from that rather ridiculous group of numskulls. 

US military is volunteer. USMC enlistees will be delighted to take Caracas in a  couple days and liberate the country from a tyrannical regime. The country would capitulate if the USA gave an undertaking that it would not occupy the country longer than needed to  reinstate the elected government and to purge the military of the criminals. If accompanied by food aid and a lifting of economic  sanctions, people would rejoice. it worked in Grenada and in Panama.

5 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

US military is volunteer. USMC enlistees will be delighted to take Caracas in a  couple days and liberate the country from a tyrannical regime. The country would capitulate if the USA gave an undertaking that it would not occupy the country longer than needed to  reinstate the elected government and to purge the military of the criminals. If accompanied by food aid and a lifting of economic  sanctions, people would rejoice. it worked in Grenada and in Panama.

Grenada and Panama are small. The US has a long established presence in Panama.

 

And who authorized you to speak for members of the Marine Corp? You think that they or the Army troops who might replace them want to be an army of occupation?  Maybe they're mostly people who supported Trump on the strength of America First?  The rest of your comments sounds like wishful thinking.

14 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

"People who know what they are talking about dont need others to think for them. But that matters not to you, propaganda spewer."

Even people who know what they are talking about don't just make empty assertions and expect others to believe them. Especially when they have no way of proving it.

 

"Why would anyone care to even discuss the matter with you? Boom, there goes another"

My comment about not caring whether or not you have participated in a drug investigation had a point: no way of knowing whether or not it's true and even if it is true, so what? I'll go with certified expertise. Your reply was just a stupid insult. As for "Boom". Awarding yourself points is just sad.

 

Dont need to make up stories, if we want it, we will just take it. Like all the countries we colonize and rule with a murderous violent fist, right?

Last time I heard that kind of talk, the target was Iraq. How'd that work out?

Keep pounding the keyboard and get those loser screeches out, Soros lover LOL

 

Boom! there goes another

Just now, Yagoda said:

Keep pounding the keyboard and get those loser screeches out, Soros lover LOL

 

Boom! there goes another

Another what......?  🤫

Just now, Yagoda said:

Keep pounding the keyboard and get those loser screeches out, Soros lover LOL

 

Boom! there goes another

I thought your comments couldn't get any sadder or emptier. I was wrong.

23 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

And maybe Cuba is next?

Cuba wont make it another year by itself. Nothing left there. Socialism marches on

Just now, transam said:

Another what......?  🤫

Dud.

4 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 Cartel de los Soles is not a literal organization, according to a range of specialists in Latin American criminal and narcotics issues, from think-tank analysts to former Drug Enforcement Administration officials.

It is instead a figure of speech in Venezuela, dating back to the 1990s, for Venezuelan military officials corrupted by drug money, they say. The term, which means “Cartel of the Suns,” is a mocking invocation of the suns Venezuelan generals wear to denote their rank, like American ones wear stars.

https://archive.ph/WHBvI

 

With any luck historians may soon be able to add this to other fake pretexts for war like Remember the Maine and The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. 

 

So it's kinda like Antifa then?

 

Thought so.

Just now, Alan Zweibel said:

I thought your comments couldn't get any sadder or emptier. I was wrong.

I thought your comments couldn't get any dumber or more childish. I was wrong.

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

Would you rather an intervention to restore the elected representatives deposed by the venezuelan dictatorship?

If that's the case, then why aren't they saying so? Maybe because it doesn't jibe with America First?

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

I thought your comments couldn't get any dumber or more childish. I was wrong.

The difference is I offer reasons before rendering a verdict.

You just skip the first part. And that's because you've got nothing.

Trump’s administration should be more concerned about the Cartel de los Paedos.  And who is “Bubba” by the way?

3 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

I thought your comments couldn't get any dumber or more childish. I was wrong.

Hey, you are number one at that, chap.........

4 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 Cartel de los Soles is not a literal organization, according to a range of specialists in Latin American criminal and narcotics issues, from think-tank analysts to former Drug Enforcement Administration officials.

It is instead a figure of speech in Venezuela, dating back to the 1990s, for Venezuelan military officials corrupted by drug money, they say. The term, which means “Cartel of the Suns,” is a mocking invocation of the suns Venezuelan generals wear to denote their rank, like American ones wear stars.

https://archive.ph/WHBvI

 

With any luck historians may soon be able to add this to other fake pretexts for war like Remember the Maine and The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. 

 

C'mon, man!

We know where the WMD are!

Trust us!

@Yagoda post removed, pack it in please.

48 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yes, but you don't see US attacking Norway for it's oil reserves.

I'm not convinced that Trump will not decide to take Greenland away from Denmark.  Yes - generally the US does not attack developed countries which have bent a knee to the US hegemon and are considered to be allies.  Non-allied, developing, small nations are ripe for the picking.  Virtually every "war" since WWII (there have been no declared wars since WWII) has been wars police actions of conquest and control of foreign nations with proven reserves of natural resources, or strategic value as a Geo-political base of operation - or both. Everyone of these wars were proceeded by a blanket of State Department and intelligence services propaganda, spin, and hyperbole blasted through the main-stream media in order to get a majority of the population of the US to buy into the fiction of the necessity to "go to war."  

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Venezuela has been called "the cocaine capital of the world".

I think you are confusing with Medellin, Colombia.

 

Venezuela has never been the main source for cocaine. The three largest producers are Colombia (by far), Peru and Brazil.

7 minutes ago, connda said:

I'm not convinced that Trump will not decide to take Greenland away from Denmark.  Yes - generally the US does not attack developed countries which have bent a knee to the US hegemon and are considered to be allies.  Non-allied, developing, small nations are ripe for the picking.  Virtually every "war" since WWII (there have been no declared wars since WWII) has been wars police actions of conquest and control of foreign nations with proven reserves of natural resources, or strategic value as a Geo-political base of operation - or both. Everyone of these wars were proceeded by a blanket of State Department and intelligence services propaganda, spin, and hyperbole blasted through the main-stream media in order to get a majority of the population of the US to buy into the fiction of the necessity to "go to war."  

 

I'm not saying I am on board, but there are a lot of complex issues.

 

Since the country is so corrupt, I think the massive amount of illegal immigrants fleeing to the US may have something to do with it as well.

 

And will Venezuelans (inadvertently) be better off, even if it's not the intention? Maybe.

 

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

US military is volunteer. USMC enlistees will be delighted to take Caracas in a  couple days and liberate the country from a tyrannical regime. The country would capitulate if the USA gave an undertaking that it would not occupy the country longer than needed to  reinstate the elected government and to purge the military of the criminals. If accompanied by food aid and a lifting of economic  sanctions, people would rejoice. it worked in Grenada and in Panama.

Trump is simply too narcissistic, too self-absorbed, and too lacking in vision to offer food aid. Look at what he did with USAID, with a paltry amount of money that was required to provide life-saving drugs to children around the world. 

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Trump is simply too narcissistic, too self-absorbed, and too lacking in vision to offer food aid. Look at what he did with USAID, with a paltry amount of money that was required to provide life-saving drugs to children around the world. 

$9.4 billion was not paltry.  The  issue has been flogged to death already. The USA was paying for the majority of these programs. China, Russia, EU, India and others were  indirectly benefiting, but were not contributing as much as they should have. Let the Gulf states and oil rich Nigeria pay for some of it.

42 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

$9.4 billion was not paltry.  The  issue has been flogged to death already. The USA was paying for the majority of these programs. China, Russia, EU, India and others were  indirectly benefiting, but were not contributing as much as they should have. Let the Gulf states and oil rich Nigeria pay for some of it.

Even if your criticism is valid, the administration abruptly cut funding. So that made a transition impossible. 

39 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

$9.4 billion was not paltry.  The  issue has been flogged to death already. The USA was paying for the majority of these programs. China, Russia, EU, India and others were  indirectly benefiting, but were not contributing as much as they should have. Let the Gulf states and oil rich Nigeria pay for some of it.

That's what MAGA propaganda says, but of course, it's not true. 

 

If you add EU contribution and individual EU member states contributions, it's more than the US. (Actually even only EU plus Germany gave more than the US.)

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/foreign-aid-given-net?tab=discrete-bar&time=latest

 

And if you look at the aid per capita, the US was not the highest contributor, far from it.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/norway-gives-more-foreign-aid-per-capita-than-any-other-oecd-country

5 minutes ago, candide said:

That's what MAGA propaganda says, but of course, it's not true. 

 

If you add EU contribution and individual EU member states contributions, it's more than the US. (Actually even only EU plus Germany gave more than the US.)

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/foreign-aid-given-net?tab=discrete-bar&time=latest

 

And if you look at the aid per capita, the US was not the highest contributor, far from it.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/norway-gives-more-foreign-aid-per-capita-than-any-other-oecd-country

And given that the USA has  higher GDP per capita than all these other nations, that only makes it worse.

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

$9.4 billion was not paltry.  The  issue has been flogged to death already. The USA was paying for the majority of these programs. China, Russia, EU, India and others were  indirectly benefiting, but were not contributing as much as they should have. Let the Gulf states and oil rich Nigeria pay for some of it.

Sorry to say but the whole process is infinitely more nuanced than you make it out to be.

 

"American foreign assistance programs are not charity; they are strategic investments that directly advance U.S. security, economic interests, and global influence," said Elisha Dunn-Georgiou, president and CEO of the Global Health Council, an agency that works with more than 130 organizations across 150 countries.

 

Those partners are often based in the U.S. In 2024 more than $1 billion of USAID funding went to American small businesses.

 

https://share.google/LzdsV0iq9USFRC1ay

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

People who know what they are talking about dont need others to think for them. But that matters not to you, propaganda spewer.

 

Why would anyone care to even discuss the matter with you? Boom, there goes another.

 

Dont need to make up stories, if we want it, we will just take it. Like all the countries we colonize and rule with a murderous violent fist, right?

Those days are rapidly becoming numbered methinks.

10 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

US military is volunteer. USMC enlistees will be delighted to take Caracas in a  couple days and liberate the country from a tyrannical regime. The country would capitulate if the USA gave an undertaking that it would not occupy the country longer than needed to  reinstate the elected government and to purge the military of the criminals. If accompanied by food aid and a lifting of economic  sanctions, people would rejoice. it worked in Grenada and in Panama.

And if Venezuela is, in fact, a narco state,  what's going to stop it from remaining a narco state? How many boots on the ground is the Trump administration going to keep there? How long will it take to "purge the country of criminals" Do you believe that despite all the cash that cartels can shower on government officials, the alleged huge drug trade in Venezuela will be seriously subdued ?  How does that happen? 

15 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 Cartel de los Soles is not a literal organization, according to a range of specialists in Latin American criminal and narcotics issues, from think-tank analysts to former Drug Enforcement Administration officials.

It is instead a figure of speech in Venezuela, dating back to the 1990s, for Venezuelan military officials corrupted by drug money, they say. The term, which means “Cartel of the Suns,” is a mocking invocation of the suns Venezuelan generals wear to denote their rank, like American ones wear stars.

https://archive.ph/WHBvI

 

Much of the argument in this thread is purely semantic, revolving around what can be considered a drug cartel.   Some people, including experts, think in terms of the current Mexican cartels or Pablo Escobar's infamous Medellin Cartel.  Those are/were highly organized criminal groups with clear leaders and chains of command,

 

Cartel de los Soles is an umbrella term for Venezuelan military and other government officials engaged in drug trafficking.  It doesn't have an organizational structure like other Latin American cartels, but its members are just as heavily involved in the drug trade.  This has been widely know and acknowledged for years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuelan-officials-suspected-of-turning-country-into-global-cocaine-hub-1431977784

 

María Corina Machado, the Venezuelan opposition leader who won the Nobel Peace Prize for 2025, has on numerous occasions condemned Maduro and Cartel de los Soles. " María Corina Machado stated that the Trump administration's maximum pressure strategy is "the right one" to dismantle the Cartel de los Soles, the drug trafficking and transnational crime network headed by dictator Nicolás Maduro and his second-in-command, Diosdado Cabello, both accused of trafficking and facilitating drug shipments to the United States."

https://voz.us/en/world/250829/28353/exclusive-interview-with-maria-corina-machado-the-trump-administration-is-pursuing-the-right-strategy-to-dismantle-the-cartel-soles.html

 

Maduro buys the loyalty of the generals and other officials by allowing them to engage in drug trafficking.  He profits handsomely himself, although he may not be directly involved in smuggling.  If he ever decides to flee the country, he'll leave as a very rich chavista.

 

 Transparency International, an NGO based in Germany, ranked Venezuela in 2024 as third from the bottom of the 180 countries it monitors for corruption,  It had of 10, with 100 the least corrupt and 0 totally corrupt.

https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/venezuela 

9 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

Cartel de los Soles is an umbrella term for Venezuelan military and other government officials engaged in drug trafficking.  It doesn't have an organizational structure like other Latin American cartels, but its members are just as heavily involved in the drug trade.  This has been widely know and acknowledged for years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuelan-officials-suspected-of-turning-country-into-global-cocaine-hub-1431977784

 

It doesn't have an organizational structure but it has members? How does that work? Is that like antifa, another something that doesn't have an organizational structure but has members?

 

And what is the solution to putting an end to this corruption? Does Trump plan to occupy the country? Accordiing to counterinsurgeny experts what is needed to occupy a defeated country is 1 soldier to every 40 residents.. That would come to about 750,000 soldiers. To be fair, some say only 1 to 50. So a mere 600,000.