45 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

With 2 carrier strike groups and many aircraft flying sorties on a daily basis the cost will be staggering. Aircraft carriers are very expensive to operate and most military aircraft can cost over $10,000 per hour at at minimum. If this operation actually goes for 5 weeks the total cost could top $500 million or more and this not counting the depletion of ammuniction, bombs, missles, UAV's and drones. Always remember Russia, North Korea and China are watchiing. In the end fewer military equipment for Ukraine and responding to China and North Korea will be more challenging. I guess the campaign pledge for "no nore foreign wars" was not true. I believe Iran had to be dealt eventually but the cost will be severe.

Allgedly Kuwait shot down 3 USAF F-15's in a "friendly fire" incident. I have been to the main US bases in Kuwait (Camp Arifjian and Camp Buehring) many times over the years and I never saw Kuwaiti military personnel on these bases. It just seemed like the US was a tenant in Kuwait that just paid rent for the land to have these basese. Not an enemy, not a friend but soemthing in the middle is what I would describe Kuwait and most of the countries in the Middle East. As a veteran I hope this ends well and the loss of US Military personnel stays small.

It is estimated that the first day alone cost nearly a billion dollars. If this goes on for 5 weeks that would likely be $20 billion plus, not including lost aircrafts, compensation for dead soldiers, or sunken ships.

This is going to last a lot longer than 5 weeks though.

4 hours ago, khaosokman said:

Sitting at a computer and pretending to being an expert on the middle east. Doing nothing for the Iranian people whilst criticising Trump for taking action.

I do love this argument that MAGA is now using to excuse this war (is it from Fox, Newsmax, Infowars, OANN or straight from "Truth' Social) as it seems to be popping up quite a lot from the MAGA fan boys.

So it's all about helping people now is it? The mighty US looking after the poor, downtrodden people of oppressive states? So should we now expect America to bomb Myanmar or North Korea or Zimbabwe or any number of the other countries that kill and oppress their own people? This idea that it's being done for altruistic reasons is beyond dumb but then again, when you are running out of excuses to explain why the guy that promised ‘I’m Not Going to Start Wars, I’m Going to Stop Wars" is (surprise, surprise) doing exactly the opposite, then I suppose you have to grasp every straw that’s given.

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It is estimated that the first day alone cost nearly a billion dollars. If this goes on for 5 weeks that would likely be $20 billion plus, not including lost aircrafts, compensation for dead soldiers, or sunken ships.

This is going to last a lot longer than 5 weeks though.

Soon we will be talking real numbers !

Seems a billion ain't what it used to be !

Just now, AndreasHG said:

Cuban doctors? Which Cuban Doctors?

Have you ever dealt with Cuban doctors? Cuba doesn't even have the X-rays to operate the hospital X-ray machines. Do you have any idea what kind of training Cuban doctors receive?

They study textbooks from the 1950s, only see photographs of medical equipment from the 1950s. and don't do any pre-graduate practical training because Cuba doesn't have a cent to spend on training.

The age of the cars you see mostly on Cuban streets is the same as that of the medical equipment seen in ordinary Cuban hospitals for ordinary people.

Half of Cuban "doctors" studies involve ideological training, because the regime requires Cuban doctors to be good communists before they can practice any medicine.

And don't you dare bring up the story of the American "bloqueo" (blockade), please. Since the communists took power, sanctions or not, Cuba has no longer had anything of value to trade internationally. The communists transformed what was once the thriving "pearl of the Caribbean" into a nation of beggars dependent on international aid for survival.

I tried to find some evidence on the internet that Cuban doctors are subpar but I really couldn't find anything. Most of the evaluations say they're very good.

As for the "don't you dare" nonsense, may be you had better better direct that prohibition at yourself.

Well it certainly true that the Cuban economy would not function well under the present dispensation. To deny that the massive blockade from the US has not had a deleterious effect on its economy is plainly nuts. Just compounded by the fact that the US makes it difficult for other nations to trade with Cuba as well.

To conclude, don't you dare claim that 2 + 2 = 4.

4 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I do love this argument that MAGA is now using to excuse this war (is it from Fox, Newsmax, Infowars, OANN or straight from "Truth' Social) as it seems to be popping up quite a lot from the MAGA fan boys.

So it's all about helping people now is it? The mighty US looking after the poor, downtrodden people of oppressive states? So should we now expect America to bomb Myanmar or North Korea or Zimbabwe or any number of the other countries that kill and oppress their own people? This idea that it's being done for altruistic reasons is beyond dumb but then again, when you are running out of excuses to explain why the guy that promised ‘I’m Not Going to Start Wars, I’m Going to Stop Wars" is (surprise, surprise) doing exactly the opposite, then I suppose you have to grasp every straw that’s given.

I'm not maga nor saying anything other than what Iranians are saying. White guys like you who hate America and Israel have issues that go beyond any one issue.

19 minutes ago, mymonkeyhusb said:

No, it can't be true. Tell me there are no deep states in the Middle East. Deep states don't exist anywhere on the planet. 🫢🫣🤫🤔🤐🤨😐

I cannot reply for another poster. As concerns my comment, it's not a conspiracy theory. You should get informed before posting! 🤣🤣🤣

The Guardian council is an official and powefull institution. It controls who participates in the political system, controls legislation, and one of its members is currently in the interim 3 members leadership.

1 minute ago, khaosokman said:

I'm not maga nor saying anything other than what Iranians are saying. White guys like you who hate America and Israel have issues that go beyond any one issue.

And people like yourself who can't put together a coherant reply to a post without resorting to name calling certainly 'have issues'.

I don't hate America. I hate Trump. I don't hate Isreal. I hate the Zionists. I also hate people who can't debate without resorting to petty name calling and stupid whataboutisms. That'll be you by the way.

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I tried to find some evidence on the internet that Cuban doctors are subpar but I really couldn't find anything. Most of the evaluations say they're very good.

As for the "don't you dare" nonsense, may be you had better better direct that prohibition at yourself.

Well it certainly true that the Cuban economy would not function well under the present dispensation. To deny that the massive blockade from the US has not had a deleterious effect on its economy is plainly nuts. Just compounded by the fact that the US makes it difficult for other nations to trade with Cuba as well.

To conclude, don't you dare claim that 2 + 2 = 4.

Cuba can trade with Mexico, Brasil, Argentina, Chile, Canada, the whole European Union, China, Russia, Belarus, Turkey, the whole Southeast Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar), Australia, New Zealand just to mention a few. Where is the beef?

At the time of the "revolution" logistic had clear limits. Today tropical fruit is flown from all over the world into Europe. Where is the Cuban tropical fruit?

With regards to the lack of evidence "that Cuban doctors are subpar", it's just testimony of how good the Cuban propaganda machine has been so far. It costs hundred thousands of dollars to train a doctor, money that Cuba simply doesn't have. Try to enter into an ordinary hospital for ordinary people in Cuba, if you can.

16 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It is estimated that the first day alone cost nearly a billion dollars. If this goes on for 5 weeks that would likely be $20 billion plus, not including lost aircrafts, compensation for dead soldiers, or sunken ships.

This is going to last a lot longer than 5 weeks though.

The US lost $2 trillion before 9/11.

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

And people like yourself who can't put together a coherant reply to a post without resorting to name calling certainly 'have issues'.

I don't hate America. I hate Trump. I don't hate Isreal. I hate the Zionists. I also hate people who can't debate without resorting to petty name calling and stupid whataboutisms. That'll be you by the way.

You sure are full of hate. You hate freedom and prefer fascism.

1 minute ago, AndreasHG said:

Cuba can trade with Mexico, Brasil, Argentina, Chile, Canada, the whole European Union, China, Russia, Belarus, Turkey, the whole Southeast Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar), Australia, New Zealand just to mention a few. Where is the beef?

At the time of the "revolution" logistic had clear limits. Today tropical fruit is flown from all over the world into Europe. Where is the Cuban tropical fruit?

From Chatgpt:

The United States impedes other countries from trading with Cuba primarily through sanctions laws that apply extraterritorially — meaning they affect not just U.S. companies, but also foreign firms that do business with the U.S.

The main mechanisms come from the long-running U.S. embargo against Cuba, especially laws passed after the Cold War.

1. The Legal Framework

Key laws include:

Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity (Helms–Burton) Act

Cuban Democracy Act

Regulations enforced by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, specifically its Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)

The Helms–Burton Act is especially important because it extended the embargo’s reach beyond U.S. borders.

2. Secondary Sanctions (The Main Tool)

The U.S. uses secondary sanctions, meaning:

If a foreign company trades with Cuba in certain prohibited ways, the U.S. can restrict that company’s access to the U.S. market or financial system.

Because the U.S. dollar and American banking system are central to global trade, this creates strong pressure.

Examples:

A European bank that finances Cuban trade could lose access to U.S. financial markets.

A shipping company docking in Cuba may be barred from U.S. ports for a set period.

A foreign company using property nationalized after the Cuban Revolution can be sued in U.S. courts (under Helms–Burton Title III).

For many companies, access to the U.S. market is far more valuable than trade with Cuba — so they choose to avoid Cuba.

3. Financial System Leverage

Even non-U.S. transactions often:

Clear through U.S. banks

Use U.S. dollars

If a transaction touches the U.S. financial system, it can fall under U.S. jurisdiction. That gives Washington leverage over global banks.

4. Shipping Restrictions

Ships that dock in Cuba can face restrictions entering U.S. ports for a defined period (historically 180 days under some regulations). This discourages commercial shipping to Cuba.

5. Visa and Corporate Penalties

Executives of foreign companies that invest in property nationalized by Cuba can:

Be denied U.S. visas

Face legal claims in U.S. courts

6. Why This Matters

Many countries — including Canada and European Union members — oppose the extraterritorial aspects of U.S. sanctions. The European Union has even adopted “blocking statutes” to try to shield European firms from complying with U.S. Cuba sanctions.

Despite that, most multinational corporations still comply with U.S. rules because:

The U.S. market is enormous.

The U.S. dollar system is dominant.

Penalties can be severe.

1 minute ago, khaosokman said:

You sure are full of hate. You hate freedom and prefer fascism.

Wow you got all that from 2 posts? You're wasted on here. I recommend a career as a clairvoyant or a psychiatrist. You'd make a killing.

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

From Chatgpt:

The United States impedes other countries from trading with Cuba primarily through sanctions laws that apply extraterritorially — meaning they affect not just U.S. companies, but also foreign firms that do business with the U.S.

The main mechanisms come from the long-running U.S. embargo against Cuba, especially laws passed after the Cold War.

1. The Legal Framework

Key laws include:

Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity (Helms–Burton) Act

Cuban Democracy Act

Regulations enforced by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, specifically its Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)

The Helms–Burton Act is especially important because it extended the embargo’s reach beyond U.S. borders.

2. Secondary Sanctions (The Main Tool)

The U.S. uses secondary sanctions, meaning:

If a foreign company trades with Cuba in certain prohibited ways, the U.S. can restrict that company’s access to the U.S. market or financial system.

Because the U.S. dollar and American banking system are central to global trade, this creates strong pressure.

Examples:

A European bank that finances Cuban trade could lose access to U.S. financial markets.

A shipping company docking in Cuba may be barred from U.S. ports for a set period.

A foreign company using property nationalized after the Cuban Revolution can be sued in U.S. courts (under Helms–Burton Title III).

For many companies, access to the U.S. market is far more valuable than trade with Cuba — so they choose to avoid Cuba.

3. Financial System Leverage

Even non-U.S. transactions often:

Clear through U.S. banks

Use U.S. dollars

If a transaction touches the U.S. financial system, it can fall under U.S. jurisdiction. That gives Washington leverage over global banks.

4. Shipping Restrictions

Ships that dock in Cuba can face restrictions entering U.S. ports for a defined period (historically 180 days under some regulations). This discourages commercial shipping to Cuba.

5. Visa and Corporate Penalties

Executives of foreign companies that invest in property nationalized by Cuba can:

Be denied U.S. visas

Face legal claims in U.S. courts

6. Why This Matters

Many countries — including Canada and European Union members — oppose the extraterritorial aspects of U.S. sanctions. The European Union has even adopted “blocking statutes” to try to shield European firms from complying with U.S. Cuba sanctions.

Despite that, most multinational corporations still comply with U.S. rules because:

The U.S. market is enormous.

The U.S. dollar system is dominant.

Penalties can be severe.

Go in any Tobacco shop in Europe (and here in Thailand), and find plenty of Cuban cigars. Not all companies deal with the US. Especially national distributors such as supermarkets and importers do not give a dime about US laws.

And if they can sell cigars, why not anything else?

Whisgars - Thailand’s Pre-Eminent Whiskey and Cigar Bar (https://whisgars23.com/)

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Wow you got all that from 2 posts? You're wasted on here. I recommend a career as a clairvoyant or a psychiatrist. You'd make a killing.

So when Obama killed Bin Laden you were angry about it and hated him for it 5555

Just now, AndreasHG said:

Go in any Tobacco shop in Europe (and here in Thailand), and find plenty of Cuban cigars. Not all companies deal with the US. Especially national distributors such as supermarkets and importers do not give a dime about US laws.

Whisgars - Thailand’s Pre-Eminent Whiskey and Cigar Bar

Right. I entirely forgot about the oft cited by economists CCI (Cuban Cigar Index)

A single luxury item is certainly a foolproof way to evaluate economic conditions.

1 minute ago, khaosokman said:

So when Obama killed Bin Laden you were angry about it and hated him for it 5555

Enough of your false equivalences. No one is shedding a tear that Ali Khamenei is dead but trying to make it sound like Trump is doing it all 'for the good of the Iranian people' like you are is gullibility to the max.

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Right. I entirely forgot about the oft cited by economists CCI (Cuban Cigar Index)

A single luxury item is certainly a foolproof way to evaluate economic conditions.

That's exactly my point. Cigars are the only competitive product Cuba currently has to offer. And not because of the "bloqueo".

Just now, AndreasHG said:

That's exactly my point. Cigars are the only competitive product Cuba currently has to offer. And not because of the "bloqueo".

I point out you how many ways the American government has restricted trade with Cuba and you claim the "bloqueo" is irrelevant. It is to laugh.

4 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Enough of your false equivalences. No one is shedding a tear that Ali Khamenei is dead but trying to make it sound like Trump is doing it all 'for the good of the Iranian people' like you are is gullibility to the max.

Middle east conflict is about oil and money but if freedom improves even 10% that's a good thing.

Try being a little less self centred.

30 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I tried to find some evidence on the internet that Cuban doctors are subpar but I really couldn't find anything. Most of the evaluations say they're very good.

As for the "don't you dare" nonsense, may be you had better better direct that prohibition at yourself.

Well it certainly true that the Cuban economy would not function well under the present dispensation. To deny that the massive blockade from the US has not had a deleterious effect on its economy is plainly nuts. Just compounded by the fact that the US makes it difficult for other nations to trade with Cuba as well.

To conclude, don't you dare claim that 2 + 2 = 4.

I seem to remember that it was Cuba that created the meningitis vaccines back in the '80's or '90's.

33 minutes ago, mymonkeyhusb said:

The world renowned AI experts at the Hindustan Times say this is AI generated. Hope no AN members are questioning when to believe their eyes. 😁😲 😆

Anyone out there selling AI photo fact checking glasses?🥸😎🤓

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/fact-check-did-trump-really-yell-at-pete-hegseth-heres-the-truth-behind-viral-photos-101772414992890.html?utm_source=ht_site_copyURL&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ht_site

✔️ Independent fact-checking sources

• Meaww/Fact Check article — Viral photo isn’t real

A fact-checking article published around the same time explains that the viral image claiming to show Trump yelling at Hegseth is false, is not connected to any real conflict or verified meeting, and there’s no evidence from reputable news outlets that such an incident occurred. They note that the photo’s origins appear to come from social media rather than a documented press event — and no credible reporting supports the claim.

https://news.meaww.com/fact-check-is-the-viral-photo-showing-trump-yelling-at-pete-hegseth-real

Thank you ,Nice catch,yeah, I would've missed it being AI generated without those fact checks. And then again I would of missed it anyway but maybe other members wouldn't have.

14 minutes ago, candide said:

I cannot reply for another poster. As concerns my comment, it's not a conspiracy theory. You should get informed before posting! 🤣🤣🤣

The Guardian council is an official and powefull institution. It controls who participates in the political system, controls legislation, and one of its members is currently in the interim 3 members leadership.

I apologize. A failed attempt to be facetious concerning all the deep state deniers I've been reading recently but I obviously need to remember internet forums require clearly seen context before attempted wit and pleasantries. I actually agree with you. Good post.

China's highly praised stealth killer radar, the HQ-9B, was entirely ineffective at revealing/stopping US/Israel attacks. The units had been operational for almost a month. They were destroyed in the first hour of combat.

49 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It is estimated that the first day alone cost nearly a billion dollars. If this goes on for 5 weeks that would likely be $20 billion plus, not including lost aircrafts, compensation for dead soldiers, or sunken ships.

This is going to last a lot longer than 5 weeks though.

Well you are probably right. The 3 F-15's shot down in Kuwait cost over $300 Mil alone. I just don't know if the majority of Iranians will see the US as liberators? Certainly Israel will never be seen in that light. What is the endgame is Iran? What was the endgame in Iraq? The endgame in A-stan was suppose to be the capture or killing of Bin Laden. Bin Laden was killed in 2011 but the US pulled out in 2021. By 2011 the US and it's allies had spent almost a decade in A-stan and was in midst of "nation buidling". Will Iran become the latest version of "nation building"? I hope not. My perspective is entirely based upon two deployments in A-stan, I in Iraq and also some time in Kuwait as well. All 3 places have been losers for the US. Is Iran #4?

19 minutes ago, khaosokman said:

Middle east conflict is about oil and money but if freedom improves even 10% that's a good thing.

Try being a little less self centred.

It's ALL about oil and money.

Try being a little less naive.

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

It's ALL about oil and money.

Try being a little less naive.

Of course it is. All wars are about power and money. You are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

China's highly praised stealth killer radar, the HQ-9B, was entirely ineffective at revealing/stopping US/Israel attacks. The units had been operational for almost a month. They were destroyed in the first hour of combat.

Thanks John, It appears the CCP underperformed dramatically against a high end opponent equipment raising doubts about CCP's air defense tech in real combat. Takeaway ,never underestimate the enemy .

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

It appears that you haven't put very much thought into that reply.

Whats he supposed to say to some non sensical words you put together that aren't even true. You made them up.

Who told you this would last for years ? Nobody, you made it up

Who told you they're low on munitions ? Nobody, you made it up

Now, just like always, I'll ask for sources and just like always, you'll throw out some juvenile jab and not answer the questions.
It how you work

1 minute ago, riclag said:

Thanks John, It appears the ccp underperformed dramatically against a high end opponent equipment raising doubts about CCP's air defense tech in real combat. Takeaway ,never underestimate the enemy .

This and other Chinese (and Russian) anti-stealth systems have not only failed in Venezuela and now Iran (not to mention earlier last year in Pakistan against India) but I have yet to see a report that one of the things even managed to launch anything during combat. Meanwhile, US Patriots and THAAD seem to be working just fine. Israel also has employed cheap but effective lasers that knocked down the Hezbollah rockets launched from Lebanon a few nights ago.

Netanyahu:

• This will not be an endless war

• With Iran out of the way, it's a gateway to more peace treaties in the Middle East with Israel