32 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I have even heard of people who learn passa Thai by singing Thai, hopefully in the shower.

Yet, this does not mean that it is a good way, or an effective way.

One can learn Thai by being sent to prison, in some cases, and be taught for free.

But, I would not wish to learn Thai this way.

As has been substantiated by other commentators here, the only way to really learn Thai is through learning Thai script, and doing it first.

No system of romanization can adequately represent all sounds and tones of passa Thai.

Chinese, however, is a bit different since each single logograph.

I want evidence, in all cases.

Give me the evidence and nothing but the evidence.

Unsupported "feelings" about reality is a totally foreign concept to me.

Yeah, it seems to be much that is a foreign concept to you. Apparently understanding of that different people learn different ways is one of the many. However, I am done with you. Totally fruitless conversation. But it was nice that you showed your excellence in Thai by writing passa Thai. Sounds a little bit like an amateur to me.

First it´s: ภาษาไทย (After that, you should have been writing Phasa Thai as that is the equivalent in the Arabic Alphabet. Not a day without learning something new, Mr. Professor, right?

5 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, it seems to be much that is a foreign concept to you. Apparently understanding of that different people learn different ways is one of the many. However, I am done with you. Totally fruitless conversation. But it was nice that you showed your excellence in Thai by writing passa Thai. Sounds a little bit like an amateur to me.

First it´s: ภาษาไทย (After that, you should have been writing Phasa Thai as that is the equivalent in the Arabic Alphabet. Not a day without learning something new, Mr. Professor, right?

You're being pedantic. Phasa Thai may be the formal transliteration, but Passa Thai is an extremely common colloquial transliteration as well.

GammaGlobulin may have expressed his opinion a little too forcefully for your tastes that learning the writing system was a must for making advanced progress in the language, but it was well-intentioned, and more importantly, quite accurate.

Edit:

คำว่า "ภาษาไทย" สามารถเขียนเป็นอักษรโรมันได้ทั้ง Phasa Thai (สะกดตามระบบถอดอักษรมาตรฐาน) และ Pasa Thai (สะกดแบบย่อ/ทั่วไป) โดย Phasa Thai นิยมใช้มากกว่าในบริบทที่เป็นทางการ เพื่อให้ตรงกับเสียง "พ" หรือ "ภ" (pʰ)

Facebook +1

• Phasa Thai: เป็นการสะกดที่ตรงตามระบบ Royal Thai General System of Transcription (RTGS) มากที่สุด

• Pasa Thai/Passa Thai: เป็นรูปแบบที่มักเห็นทั่วไปหรือในชื่อแบรนด์

35 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The evidence is all around you, in the fact that every child that learns to speak, does so without having learned to read and write first.

This is the complete FALLACY that young children learning a language can be equated with adult learning of a language.

There is MUCH EVIDENCE which supports this.

Also, this CONFUSION that many L2 adult learners exhibit, that they can learn like a child learns a language is for me...

DOWNRIGHT DEPRESSING, I can tell you.

I am so depressed by this confusion, and by those who do not understand SCIENCE, nor the process of SCIENCE.

So very depressing.

4 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You're being pedantic. Phasa Thai may be the formal transliteration, but Passa Thai is an extremely common colloquial transliteration as well.

Pedantic??? What sound closest to the right sound in Thai. Passa Thai or Phasa Thai. Thai is a language depending very much on how the words you speak sound.

But, if you say so. You are probably the professional.

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

As has been substantiated by other commentators here, the only way to really learn Thai is through learning Thai script, and doing it first.

No system of romanization can adequately represent all sounds and tones of passa Thai.

As has been substantiated by other commentators here, it's not the only way to learn to speak Thai.

I also speak some Northern Khmer, for which there is no script. How did I manage that, if your way is the only way?

36 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

GammaGlobulin may have expressed his opinion a little too forcefully for your tastes that learning the writing system was a must for making advanced progress in the language, but it was well-intentioned, and more importantly, quite accurate.

He actually said one should learn the script first. That is not accurate.

37 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This is the complete FALLACY that young children learning a language can be equated with adult learning of a language.

There is MUCH EVIDENCE which supports this.

Also, this CONFUSION that many L2 adult learners exhibit, that they can learn like a child learns a language is for me...

DOWNRIGHT DEPRESSING, I can tell you.

I am so depressed by this confusion, and by those who do not understand SCIENCE, nor the process of SCIENCE.

So very depressing.

Learning a language is not science. That's your confusion. Stop confusing language with science and you may be able to snap out of your depression. 555

35 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Pedantic??? What sound closest to the right sound in Thai. Passa Thai or Phasa Thai. Thai is a language depending very much on how the words you speak sound.

But, if you say so. You are probably the professional.

You appear to be overlooking the fact that "Ph" in English is predominately an "F" sound. Fassa Thai? 555

3 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

I check out the site. It does seem to be a good one for those just starting. Some of the clearest pronunciations I have heard on an online course.

I want to add a little known site

https://lingopolo.org/

3 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

"I check out the site. It does seem to be a good one for those just starting."

Referring to the website: LearnWithOliver dot com.

As far as the website LearnWithOliver dot com. being for those just starting, yes.

Also for those who have learned a lot.

Tons of exercises and resources at all levels, I was a member for a long time before I learned of everything available.

Don't think that this is only for beginners, not trying to sell it, just being honest.

Learn Thai script, then or parallel to it use this:

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

You're being pedantic. Phasa Thai may be the formal transliteration, but Passa Thai is an extremely common colloquial transliteration as well.

GammaGlobulin may have expressed his opinion a little too forcefully for your tastes that learning the writing system was a must for making advanced progress in the language, but it was well-intentioned, and more importantly, quite accurate.

Edit:

คำว่า "ภาษาไทย" สามารถเขียนเป็นอักษรโรมันได้ทั้ง Phasa Thai (สะกดตามระบบถอดอักษรมาตรฐาน) และ Pasa Thai (สะกดแบบย่อ/ทั่วไป) โดย Phasa Thai นิยมใช้มากกว่าในบริบทที่เป็นทางการ เพื่อให้ตรงกับเสียง "พ" หรือ "ภ" (pʰ)

Facebook +1

• Phasa Thai: เป็นการสะกดที่ตรงตามระบบ Royal Thai General System of Transcription (RTGS) มากที่สุด

• Pasa Thai/Passa Thai: เป็นรูปแบบที่มักเห็นทั่วไปหรือในชื่อแบรนด์

Ok, and even after your edit, you did not find Passa. You found Pasa and Phasa, right? That /Passa, your can just forget

57 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You appear to be overlooking the fact that "Ph" in English is predominately an "F" sound. Fassa Thai? 555

No, I did not forget it is predominately like you say, but you have differences, and the difference makes Ph most suitable. It´s possible to accept Pasa too, but not with double s.

4 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

No, I did not forget it is predominately like you say, but you have differences, and the difference makes Ph most suitable. It´s possible to accept Pasa too, but not with double s.

No. Ph is not the most suitable. 99% of Ph in English is F. Most of the other 1% is V.

It's not Fasa Thai. It's Pasa Thai. A double S makes next to no difference.

Start here: There is literally no "Th" sound in the Thai language. That's a transliteration anomaly.

My suggestion, learn to read Thai as you learn the language with the goal of completely ditching transliterations altogether by the end of your first year.

I used Thai For Beginners by BP Becker about 20 years ago. You'll utilize one transliteration method that the author uses, and as you pick up reading skill you'll quickly ditch transliteration. Thailand - Thigh Land. Yeah, right. You can start by translating Thai road signs and you'll understand what I mean. You'll be able to pronounce written Thai well before you learn proficiency at the structure and grammar of the language. The move on to her Intermediate book. Master those two and you'll have a good base.

My two cents worth.

55 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. Ph is not the most suitable. 99% of Ph in English is F. Most of the other 1% is V.

It's not Fasa Thai. It's Pasa Thai. A double S makes next to no difference.

Ok, you are the professional. I just been here over 28 years and speak, read and write Thai fluently. But, maybe you are better. Go on boy!

6 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Correct. "Shirley" is a noun. Meaning "bright meadow". "Assuredly" is an adverb. As I previously explained.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/assuredly

Are you seriously not getting this?

"Shirley you jest"

36 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, you are the professional. I just been here over 28 years and speak, read and write Thai fluently. But, maybe you are better. Go on boy!

Regardless of who has been here the longest or who speaks, reads or writes better Thai ( I moved to Thailand in 1998 and started learning on day one) it is English where you are making the mistake. "Ph" is "F". There are no two ways about it.

Show any English speaker the word "Phassa" and they will pronounce it "Fassa". Simple.

I think it might be time for a few members to start a new thread where they debate "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

I expect it to be about as productive as some of the arguments in the thread.

On 3/23/2026 at 1:09 PM, kickstart said:

You cannot learn Thai by cook and book, cook meaning the person doing the cooking in the house

On the contrary, I think, "pillow talk learning" is maybe the most effective form. It gives an inherent motivation, it is the most basic form of immerison learning -- but of course it helps if your learning partner does speak as little of your language or Emnglish as possible.

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

You know; it's just a proper noun having the same meaning as assuredly.

Nonsense.

23 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Has to be one of the worst takes on this forum i've ever read.

Thank you. I did not say ONLY with non-English speaking Thai persons.

Anyone who has said something in Thai to an English-speaking Thai person (whether you knew they spoke English or not) with the response: What language was that? will know what I mean.

BTW this is my opinion the best learning dictionary because it groups all the Thai words like 'nam' for water together. 1998 published. Out of print. I bought mine way back.

Now on Amazon:

Paperback

from $394.99 (yes $US)

Other Used from $394.99

Currently unavailable.

Of course no one is going to start blindly studying the writing system until they are confident that they want to make that investment in time and energy. The early exploration of the language is more than likely going to be focused on verbal interaction which helps with getting to know people and making transactions smoother. All the people who are advocating learning to read and write the language are saying is that once you are confident that you want to make a serious commitment to learning the language, the sooner you learn to read and write the language, the better off you'll be, the faster your progress will be, and that if you choose not to do this, it is likely that your proficiency will plateau at a relatively elementary level.

9 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Regardless of who has been here the longest or who speaks, reads or writes better Thai ( I moved to Thailand in 1998 and started learning on day one) it is English where you are making the mistake. "Ph" is "F". There are no two ways about it.

Show any English speaker the word "Phassa" and they will pronounce it "Fassa". Simple.

Ok, but here we are talking Arabic Alphabet and Thai language. What you seem to not understand, is that English has not much to do with that, as many languages uses the Arabic Alphabet, and different languages will pronounce what you are on about in different ways. English speakers do not rule the world, even if you think so. That´s just a delusion.

4 hours ago, JerryM said:

Thank you. I did not say ONLY with non-English speaking Thai persons.

Anyone who has said something in Thai to an English-speaking Thai person (whether you knew they spoke English or not) with the response: What language was that? will know what I mean.

BTW this is my opinion the best learning dictionary because it groups all the Thai words like 'nam' for water together. 1998 published. Out of print. I bought mine way back.

Now on Amazon:

Paperback

from $394.99 (yes $US)

Other Used from $394.99

Currently unavailable.

The groupings in the dictionary are not helpful.

Why would anyone want to group words meaing water together, anyway?

How does this help, really???

Also, a much better dictionary is WORD IN THE HAND Thai-English-Thai dictionary....compiled by BECKER,

There is an excellent version that has an app for Android and Apple.

Get it HERE, provided that you really ARE getting serious about learning Thai....

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wordinthehand.thaidict

12 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The groupings in the dictionary are not helpful.

Why would anyone want to group words meaing water together, anyway?

How does this help, really???

AI Gemini query: learning thai language Why would anyone want to group words meaing water together, anyway?

Grouping water-related words (the "Nam" category) is actually one of the most efficient ways to hack the Thai language. In Thai, the word for water, Nam (น้ำ), acts like a Lego brick. Instead of inventing entirely new, unrelated words for different liquids, Thai often just adds a descriptive word after "Nam."

If you learn the word for water, you've already learned the "prefix" for dozens of everyday items.

1. The "Liquid" Logic: In English, words like "juice," "tears," and "vinegar" share no linguistic DNA. In Thai, they are all categorized as "Water + [Source/Modifier]." This makes expanding your vocabulary much faster through association.Thai Word

2 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, but here we are talking Arabic Alphabet and Thai language. What you seem to not understand, is that English has not much to do with that, as many languages uses the Arabic Alphabet, and different languages will pronounce what you are on about in different ways. English speakers do not rule the world, even if you think so. That´s just a delusion.

English uses the Roman alphabet. Hence when you translate a language into English you Romanise it.

English speaking countries use the Arabic numerals.

You have lost any credibility on any posts regarding learning a new language.

57 minutes ago, JerryM said:

AI Gemini query: learning thai language Why would anyone want to group words meaing water together, anyway?

Grouping water-related words (the "Nam" category) is actually one of the most efficient ways to hack the Thai language. In Thai, the word for water, Nam (น้ำ), acts like a Lego brick. Instead of inventing entirely new, unrelated words for different liquids, Thai often just adds a descriptive word after "Nam."

If you learn the word for water, you've already learned the "prefix" for dozens of everyday items.

1. The "Liquid" Logic: In English, words like "juice," "tears," and "vinegar" share no linguistic DNA. In Thai, they are all categorized as "Water + [Source/Modifier]." This makes expanding your vocabulary much faster through association.Thai Word

This is GARBAGE reasoning, which is NOT based on testing and evidence.

The real problem that this kind of grouping might sound good to Linguist Nitwits, but not hold up in the REAL WORLD, nor be best for memorization efficiency is due to ..

Something real called INTERFERENCE....which, I might add, I have studied a bit about.

In a nutshell, also from Gemini (you really gotta actually KNOW something in order to give Gemini the best prompts) is this description of Interference and Effectiveness of Memorization of vocabulary...

As I already tied to EXPLAIN to this Thread, use SRS, and do not try to learn an entire list of similar words, together.

But...will YOU listen?

Know, you will not listen.

You will not listen because you think with your GUT....

When will you ever learn that Science is KING, and your GUT is irrational and not based on the real world.

Test it, and then you will know.

I liked the structure as it is similar to Chinese radicals.

Available from Abe books:

Buy Used

Condition: Very Good

Gently used. May include previous...

View this item

US$ 211.99

15 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Learning a language is not science. That's your confusion. Stop confusing language with science and you may be able to snap out of your depression. 555

You completely misunderstand my point, which is as simple as pie, for even a 3rd-grader.

We use Science and the Scientific Process to evaluate which learning methods are more effective.

Or, you can sit hunch over your tea leaves trying to guess.

Linguistics is a science, by the way.

Where did you go to school, one wonders, since this might have a bearing upon how you choose to analyse this question.

I started learning/writing Thai almost 40 years ago after learning written Chinese 50+ years ago.

I am not concerned with Android learning.