20 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You and me may not need imagined purpose. I speak for myself when I say I need real purpose to be happy, and that comes from structure, discipline, and room to grow. That is also what society is built on. Structure, discipline, responsibility, possibilities, growth, and some kind of purpose.

Still, many people fall outside for one reason or another. For some of them, religion or belief becomes a positive distraction. It gives them routine, community, rules, and something to hold on to. And to be honest, maybe we should be happy that many of those people found something that keeps them inside society, instead of outside it.

That is more a philosophical question than a religious one.

If only religion did that for everyone. It seems to make some people angry, violent, warlike and especially holier than thou

16 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I believe in me.

I believe you believe.

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

If only religion did that for everyone. It seems to make some people angry, violent, warlike and especially holier than thou

I do not think you need religion for those traits. But it clearly gives some people a sense of purpose or comfort through their belief. Still, I do not believe angry people need a rational reason to fight and risk dying, just an excuse.

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I do not think you need religion for those traits. But it clearly gives some people a sense of purpose or comfort through their belief. Still, I do not believe angry people need a rational reason to fight and risk dying, just an excuse.

Yes, I agree with you there.

It amazes me that one person can sacrifice hundreds of thousands, even millions of people just for one selfish purpose. E.g Bibi to stay out of prison. Putin to stay in power, Trump because he runs on negativity.

Where is their sense of values?

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Your mind is closed.

I don’t think you have ever researched “Paul’s” Christianity with an open mind and I don’t think you ever will.

My mind is always open for factual evidence. God doesn't worry if you are fully or partly knowledgeable on the subject, as long as you have faith. Thinking a Christian will be swayed won't work for one who is dedicated.

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Agreed.

I find it incredible that sane, educated men would even consider the possibility of the existence of god. The whole idea is preposterous.

Regarding proof however, there is proof that religious texts supporting the existence of god is incorrect.

Every religious text said to be divine is incorrect too.

These texts, purportedly divine, were written by man and described scholastic thinking of the time period which scientifically has been disproven today.

We know that humans and apes share a common ancestor, two branches of the same evolutionary tree. There is no room for the bible’s explanations in any of that.

Whilst I am certain god does not exist, I am less certain of some other examples of post-death, pre-birth events, but I’m sure there is no god in those either.

I find it incredible that any adult would think a universe could just happen by chance, with all the species on earth, and how everything interacts. A creator is sensible, anything else is just wishful thinking.There has never been proof of anything either side, only theories, so I choose to not take any chances and keep my belief in God.

Think of it this way. What do you lose if you believe and there isn't a God? You die and go nowhere , as you believe. if there is a God, what happens if you turn your back on him? You think you're certain God doesn't exist, like so many others. We are certain there is a God, so it's best to not argue the point, as neither side has concrete evidence. Faith is enough for believers. This excerpt comes from AI............millions of brilliant, scientifically literate people—including top scientists, philosophers, and thinkers—are devout believers. 

Edited June 17Jun 17 by fredwiggy

33 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Yes, I agree with you there.

It amazes me that one person can sacrifice hundreds of thousands, even millions of people just for one selfish purpose. E.g Bibi to stay out of prison. Putin to stay in power, Trump because he runs on negativity.

Where is their sense of values?

That has always been the idea behind empires. Secure peace within, build allies around you, and use force when needed.

Greatness has never come without risk or violence. The problem is when leaders start calling their own survival “greatness.”

The bigger picture here is important, and it is not an easy or straightforward answer when you look at history and see what actually led to the downfall of nations.

So the question is, are these leaders madmen? Are they evil? Or do they truly believe they are doing what is necessary, not only to keep their own position, but also to protect the existence of the nation they lead?

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

My mind is always open for factual evidence. God doesn't worry if you are fully or partly knowledgeable on the subject, as long as you have faith. Thinking a Christian will be swayed won't work for one who is dedicated.

Do you believe there are consequences for not believing, or not committing to a faith?

Even if you are a true person with good human traits, are those who have committed really better humans than those who have not? Do you believe it is that simple?

And does it matter which religion or branch you belong to?

I truly believe that if Jesus was God’s son, he would be furious if he came back and saw what people had done in his name. The same goes for Buddha, even if he did not believe in anger. Even Mohammed would probably question what people have done in his name.

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I find it incredible that any adult would think a universe could just happen by chance, with all the species on earth, and how everything interacts. A creator is sensible, anything else is just wishful thinking.There has never been proof of anything either side, only theories, so I choose to not take any chances and keep my belief in God.

Think of it this way. What do you lose if you believe and there isn't a God? You die and go nowhere , as you believe. if there is a God, what happens if you turn your back on him? You think you're certain God doesn't exist, like so many others. We are certain there is a God, so it's best to not argue the point, as neither side has concrete evidence. Faith is enough for believers. This excerpt comes from AI............millions of brilliant, scientifically literate people—including top scientists, philosophers, and thinkers—are devout believers. 

Why is lack of answers to the biggest questions in life a good reason to believe in Christianity?

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Do you believe there are consequences for not believing, or not committing to a faith?

Even if you are a true person with good human traits, are those who have committed really better humans than those who have not? Do you believe it is that simple?

And does it matter which religion or branch you belong to?

I truly believe that if Jesus was God’s son, he would be furious if he came back and saw what people had done in his name. The same goes for Buddha, even if he did not believe in anger. Even Mohammed would probably question what people have done in his name.

I'm not really sure what God will do if people turn your back on him. I go by what's been written, which makes sense. You turn your back it means you care nothing about our Creator, which I'm sure upsets him. Everyone sins, but do they repent and ask forgiveness?

Religions don't really matter, but just the belief in God. Yes, many have used religion for evil, which is not how all religions are based. Peace and some allow conflict for a reason.

You mix power and land into a religion, and people are going to go sideways.

I'm sure God and Jesus look down on us and shake their heads. He gave us the 10 Commandments, and people intentionally disobey them. For control, power, profit, hatred, lust, and indifference.

12 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Why is lack of answers to the biggest questions in life a good reason to believe in Christianity?

For just that reason. Belief can get you into heaven. Turning your back on one who created everything shows him it doesn't matter to you. I, along with everyone else, have questions about why there are so many crappy things in this world. Daily I wonder, especially with the daily news, natural disasters, people dying from so many diseases, and certain insects. The only thing that makes sense of it is how long all humans live compared to eternity. No comparison.

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

For just that reason. Belief can get you into heaven. Turning your back on one who created everything shows him it doesn't matter to you. I, along with everyone else, have questions about why there are so many crappy things in this world. Daily I wonder, especially with the daily news, natural disasters, people dying from so many diseases, and certain insects. The only thing that makes sense of it is how long all humans live compared to eternity. No comparison.

Religion is family, tribe, and politics. Some claim it is not, but all the elements are there. That is what knocks me off, especially when I observe nature, the true nature of everything I can see, sense, and understand.

And if God exists, he exists in nature, not in a book. We humans have committed our greatest mistake by separating ourselves from nature, forgetting that we are part of it rather than apart from it.

Maybe the answer lies right there, to your questions I mean. We simply stopped being part of nature, and believe we are something else.

I believe in Zionism, which is the right to self-determination for Jewish people and a sovereign Jewish majority state in their ancestral homeland.

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Religion is family, tribe, and politics. Some claim it is not, but all the elements are there. That is what knocks me off, especially when I observe nature, the true nature of everything I can see, sense, and understand.

And if God exists, he exists in nature, not in a book. We humans have committed our greatest mistake by separating ourselves from nature, forgetting that we are part of it rather than apart from it.

Maybe the answer lies right there, to your questions I mean. We simply stopped being part of nature, and believe we are something else.

Those that intentionally destroy nature, which we are a part of, are the true criminals.

2 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

I believe in me.

I believe in love

23 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Then, you would first need to find a trash bin big enough...

Would you not?

Happy to see you agree with Front Row.

35 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Those that intentionally destroy nature, which we are a part of, are the true criminals.

Vegans and veggies will call you a criminal because you like to shoot deer....FOR FUN.

2 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Vegans and veggies will call you a criminal because you like to shoot deer....FOR FUN.

I shoot deer to be one with nature, harvesting what God put here for us to eat, along with helping to keep the deer population in sync with the carrying capacity of the land they live on. I also enjoy being out in nature, seeing what many will never see outside of a zoo, which I dislike.

The criminals are those who over develop the land, tearing down millions of trees to build more houses out in country areas, and leaving little room for the native wildlife, who are forced to co-exist closer to people, which makes encounters dangerous for both.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by fredwiggy

36 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I shoot deer to be one with nature, harvesting what God put here for us to eat, along with helping to keep the deer population in sync with the carrying capacity of the land they live on. I also enjoy being out in nature, seeing what many will never see outside of a zoo, which I dislike.

The criminals are those who over develop the land, tearing down millions of trees to build more houses out in country areas, and leaving little room for the native wildlife, who are forced to co-exist closer to people, which makes encounters dangerous for both.

Fred, I agree with you on this. Except the bit about your God putting them on Earth to kill and eat. They developed according to Mr Darwin. But I guess you will say that God put Darwin here. Cheers.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by wil iam not

2 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Fred, I agree with you on this. Except the bit about your God putting them on Earth to kill and eat. They developed according to Mr Darwin. Cheers.

Darwin said all present day animals had ancestors. This is known long before Darwin. The deer today came from deer that God put here originally. Some species have evolved quite a bit. Some haven't. Some animals have evolved as the world has changed. Most, not all animals now haven't changed in a long time as the world fits their lifestyles.

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

I believe in Zionism, which is the right to self-determination for Jewish people and a sovereign Jewish majority state in their ancestral homeland.

even if some people have to lose their kneecaps for that to happen?

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

My mind is always open for factual evidence.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I find it incredible that any adult would think a universe could just happen by chance, with all the species on earth, and how everything interacts. A creator is sensible, anything else is just wishful thinking.There has never been proof of anything either side, only theories, so I choose to not take any chances and keep my belief in God.

Think of it this way. What do you lose if you believe and there isn't a God? You die and go nowhere , as you believe. if there is a God, what happens if you turn your back on him? You think you're certain God doesn't exist, like so many others. We are certain there is a God, so it's best to not argue the point, as neither side has concrete evidence. Faith is enough for believers. This excerpt comes from AI............millions of brilliant, scientifically literate people—including top scientists, philosophers, and thinkers—are devout believers. 

Clearly your mind was open to the idea of god without any proof whatsoever and disturbing inconsistencies in what you were told.

Science has fully explained, and proven, evolution. It’s incredible to suggest that god, or faeries, leprechauns or whatever were responsible for it.

It has been proven that we and apes have a common ancestor.

If your god exists (and I’m convinced he doesn’t), I don’t think he would care whether I believed in him, or JC, or went to church, or preyed to him. I think he would solely care that I led a good life and did good deeds.

Actually, there are several passages in the bible to that effect.

Revelation 22:14, Matthew 19:16-22, Mark and Luke too though we should probably not count them as just under or just over half the books in the bible were written by one person (whether it’s 13 or 14 is disputed).

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Darwin said all present day animals had ancestors. This is known long before Darwin. The deer today came from deer that God put here originally. Some species have evolved quite a bit. Some haven't. Some animals have evolved as the world has changed. Most, not all animals now haven't changed in a long time as the world fits their lifestyles.

Science can prove what you say here is incorrect.

Deer were never an original species.

1 hour ago, wil iam not said:

Vegans and veggies will call you a criminal because you like to shoot deer....FOR FUN.

Do you think replacing meat with vegetable will protect wildlife ? Guess again 🤓

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Clearly your mind was open to the idea of god without any proof whatsoever and disturbing inconsistencies in what you were told.

Science has fully explained, and proven, evolution. It’s incredible to suggest that god, or faeries, leprechauns or whatever were responsible for it.

It has been proven that we and apes have a common ancestor.

If your god exists (and I’m convinced he doesn’t), I don’t think he would care whether I believed in him, or JC, or went to church, or preyed to him. I think he would solely care that I led a good life and did good deeds.

Actually, there are several passages in the bible to that effect.

Revelation 22:14, Matthew 19:16-22, Mark and Luke too though we should probably not count them as just under or just over half the books in the bible were written by one person (whether it’s 13 or 14 is disputed).

God made everything possible. The universe didn't happen all by itself. No one has proven otherwise. Simple logic, although some, for a few reasons, don't believe it. Good deeds are a good thing, but won't get a person to heaven. Ignoring who created us is the unpardonable sin, as I mentioned earlier. Still everyone has a choice to make.

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Science can prove what you say here is incorrect.

Deer were never an original species.

Deer evolved from antelope like animals, which are deer like. Chevrotains-proto deer- cervidae.

1 hour ago, wil iam not said:

Vegans and veggies will call you a criminal because you like to shoot deer....FOR FUN.

Interesting quote from the Bible.

''The weak person only eats vegetables" .

Lol.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2014%3A1-6&version=ESV

Romans 14

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. ² One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. ³ Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Deer evolved from antelope like animals, which are deer like. Chevrotains-proto deer- cervidae.

Life is distinguished by both its unity and its diversity.

Multiple lines of evidence point to life’s unity, from the simi-

larities seen among and between fossil and living organisms,

to common metabolic processes, to the universal molecule of

inheritance, DNA. The amazing diversity of life is on display

all around you and is documented in zoos, nature shows,

and natural history museums. The scientific explanation

for this unity and diversity is evolution, ­ the process of

change that has transformed life on Earth from its earliest

forms to the vast array of organisms living today.

What does this say about the inter-connectivity of all life, suggesting one single point of evolution, billions of years ago?

Do you have any Biblical thoughts about this obvious reality?

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Ignoring who created us is the unpardonable sin

Think about that. What would that make god? Capricious? Vain? god wouldn’t care about that at all.

The church would, that would mean they lost control.

10 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Deer evolved from antelope like animals, which are deer like. Chevrotains-proto deer- cervidae.

Deer evolved from slime, we all did. DNA of Deer and Humans can be traced back to a common ancestor.

All cellular life on Earth (bacteria, archaea, and eukaryotes—including humans and deer) traces back to a single-celled organism that lived roughly 3.5–4 billion years ago. This is the deepest common ancestor.

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

All cellular life on Earth (bacteria, archaea, and eukaryotes—including humans and deer) traces back to a single-celled organism that lived roughly 3.5–4 billion years ago. This is the deepest common ancestor.

On the sixth day God created that single-celled organism. Then She said "Go, be fruitful and multiply".