1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

You’re equating religion with morals.

You don’t need religion to have good morals and in my last post I pointed out the higher incidence of crime amongst the religious.

The hook is there in your religion, you said it yourself, beliefs and animals go to heaven, unbelievers don’t go to heaven presumably

In your belief system I don’t go to heaven, if you reject JC you don’t go to heaven.

That is heavy.

Exactly what I said. it begins at home, and when you leave home, you use what you were taught towards others.

It's not the religious that are committing more crimes. it's certain groups or individuals that use religion the wrong way. AI but true................

Extensive sociological and criminological research shows that, on the individual level, people who are more religious are generally less likely to commit crimes or engage in delinquent behaviors compared to those who are not religious.

I think Jesus is a go between, an easier path to God, but belief in God should still have you going to heaven, as Muslims and Jews think.

In the end, God is the judge, and most of us have learned or seen what's required by God.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by fredwiggy

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

but belief in God should still have you going to heaven, as Muslims and Jews think.

In the end, God is the judge, and most of us have learned or seen what's required by God.

Why?

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

What happens, again, if God is proven real? Jesus is supposed to come back for the rapture. What do you do when you've turned your back and this happens tomorrow?

Let’s explore this Fred.

I have turned my back, my kids have turned their backs, does that mean we don’t go to heaven?

☝️

Edited June 19Jun 19 by Hummin

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Let’s explore this Fred.

I have turned my back, my kids have turned their backs, does that mean we don’t go to heaven?

You already know all of this, so why keep asking me?...............

In Christian theology, the unpardonable (or unforgivable) sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Rooted in the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels, it is not an accidental slip of the tongue or a specific bad deed, but rather the willful, persistent rejection of God's grace and truth until the end of life.

What the Bible Says

The concept is explicitly mentioned in the Synoptic Gospels:

• Matthew 12:31-32: "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven".

• Mark 3:29: "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"Why is it Unpardonable?

  Because the role of the Holy Spirit is to convict people of sin, guide them to repentance, and bring them to faith in Christ, continually resisting and rejecting the Spirit means you are cutting yourself off from the only force that can lead you to forgiveness. Therefore, it is unforgivable simply because the person refuses to accept forgiveness. [1, 2, 3, 4]

  How to Know If You've Committed It

  Christian theologians and pastors widely agree that if a person is worried about whether they have committed this sin, they almost certainly have not. The very fact that an individual feels remorse, desires God's forgiveness, or worries about their spiritual state shows that the Holy Spirit is still at work in their heart. The Context of the Warning

  Jesus issued this warning when religious leaders witnessed Him performing undeniable miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit. Instead of accepting this divine power, they attributed His work to Satan. This demonstrated a hardened heart—seeing the undeniable truth of God but deliberately calling it evil out of rebellion.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by fredwiggy

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The idea was to build empires that secured the peace within

I agree the idea is to build empires.

I don’t agree that there is/was any intention around securing peace.

I think it’s all self aggrandizement, and wanting to go down in history as someone special.

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I agree the idea is to build empires.

I don’t agree that there is/was any intention around securing peace.

I think it’s all self aggrandizement, and wanting to go down in history as someone special.

That's the motive behind all those in great power. They already have enough money.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You already know all of this, so why keep asking me?...............

In Christian theology, the unpardonable (or unforgivable) sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Rooted in the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels, it is not an accidental slip of the tongue or a specific bad deed, but rather the willful, persistent rejection of God's grace and truth until the end of life.

What the Bible Says

The concept is explicitly mentioned in the Synoptic Gospels:

• Matthew 12:31-32: "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven".

• Mark 3:29: "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

So Fred, you’re saying neither I or my kids go to heaven.

I “programmed “ them as children in Christianity and I taught them it was all BS.

Is it fair, does it pass the test of goodness, that god won’t let my kids into heaven because of my actions?

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

So Fred, you’re saying neither I or my kids go to heaven.

I “programmed “ them as children in Christianity and I taught them it was all BS.

Is it fair, does it pass the test of goodness, that god won’t let my kids into heaven because of my actions?

See above

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I agree the idea is to build empires.

I don’t agree that there is/was any intention around securing peace.

I think it’s all self aggrandizement, and wanting to go down in history as someone special.

That reply was intended days ago, but I never finished it on this device. 🤗

Anyway, Pax Romana and Pax Americana both show the same pattern. They secure peace and stability inside the empire or alliance, while many conflicts are pushed outside its own borders.

The peace at home is often paid for elsewhere, through other regions, other countries, and proxy wars.

That creates stability inside the system, while the enemies outside it are dehumanized.

If there is one thought I would want to leave all religious people with, it’s my test of goodness.

Think about it constantly and philosophize whether each aspect meets that test.

If any part of it doesn’t, discount it because god is all good right? god can’t be jealous, want revenge, kill innocents. It’s an impossibility, completely at odds with what he is. And if he were really like that, do you really want to worship him?

Keep doing this, remove all parts that fail this test, and see what you’re left with.

The thing that destroys religions, Christianity, is the test of goodness.

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

See above

You god fails the test of goodness.

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I agree the idea is to build empires.

I don’t agree that there is/was any intention around securing peace.

I think it’s all self aggrandizement, and wanting to go down in history as someone special.

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

That's the motive behind all those in great power. They already have enough money.

Recommend this one,

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You god fails the test of goodness.

Only seen when people do wrong.

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

22 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

So Fred, you’re saying neither I or my kids go to heaven.

I “programmed “ them as children in Christianity and I taught them it was all BS.

Is it fair, does it pass the test of goodness, that god won’t let my kids into heaven because of my actions?

It's mostly about control and power.

If you don't believe every word in the Bible, then the Church can't control you.

Use your own intuition and common sense and logic.

Are you a murderer? If not, you're off to a good start.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by save the frogs

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Only seen when people do wrong.

But he kills innocents! Babies for gods sake (punctuation intended).

Your god fails the test of goodness even when innocents do no wrong.

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

It's mostly about control and power.

If you don't believe every word in the Bible, then the Church can't control you.

Use your own intuition and common sense and logic.

Most Christians don't believe everything written in the Bible. No one I know does, nor do I. It isn't necessary as his laws are all that's needed. History has shown things can be misinterpreted in writings, and the Bible isn't safe. Adults can only be controlled if they let themselves be.

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Recommend this one,

I would love to watch it but it’s too long.

Weaponisation of space does worry me.

26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

So Fred, you’re saying neither I or my kids go to heaven.

I “programmed “ them as children in Christianity and I taught them it was all BS.

Is it fair, does it pass the test of goodness, that god won’t let my kids into heaven because of my actions?

Just another comment.

I got into Buddhism many years ago.

I found it superior to Christian beliefs. But I don't agree with everything they say.

Then I just put it away. Once I picked up a few concepts, I didn't feel the need to go around calling myself "A Buddhist" or go to temples.

Also, I noticed that different Buddhist monks have different ideas. It's not really one fixed set of ideas.

But Buddhist does teach to think for yourself and to learn things.

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

But he kills innocents! Babies for gods sake (punctuation intended).

Your god fails the test of goodness even when innocents do no wrong.

People die every day from genetic failures and diseases. He put them there to test us. To see how we react to loss. The main thing is still that this is only a temporary stop on the road to forever.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Most Christians don't believe everything written in the Bible. No one I know does, nor do I. It isn't necessary as his laws are all that's needed. History has shown things can be misinterpreted in writings, and the Bible isn't safe. Adults can only be controlled if they let themselves be.

But you were quoting Bible verses above.

The "Holy Spirit" is so vague as to barely mean anything.

It means nothing to me.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I would love to watch it but it’s too long.

Weaponisation of space does worry me.

You telling me you do not have time ?

🤔

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Just another comment.

I got into Buddhism many years ago.

I found it superior to Christian beliefs. But I don't agree with everything they say.

Then I just put it away. Once I picked up a few concepts, I didn't feel the need to go around calling myself "A Buddhist" or go to temples.

Also, I noticed that different Buddhist monks have different ideas. It's not really one fixed set of ideas.

But Buddhist does teach to think for yourself and to learn things.

Take some time and listen to this video. You can keep it in the background while using another page..................https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7cR_v5u59M&t=2s

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

But you were quoting Bible verses above.

The "Holy Spirit" is so vague as to barely mean anything.

It means nothing to me.

Much of the Bible is true, but some isn't. The only way to know is when we die and see what's next. The more you get into things Christian the more you understand .

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

People die every day from genetic failures and diseases. He put them there to test us. To see how we react to loss. The main thing is still that this is only a temporary stop on the road to forever.

You say people die every day from genetic failures and diseases because God put them there to test us. But then you forget to ask what kind of test that really is.

Children are born sick. Families are broken by loss. People suffer before they even understand life. If that is called a test, then you have to admit it raises hard questions too.

Maybe that is also why some people become stuck in the same pattern. There is always an answer, always forgiveness, and never any real need to change or grow as human beings.

You do not make it easy for yourself when you claim to seek truth, speak truth, and read a lot, but only shop from the shelves that suit you.

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You say people die every day from genetic failures and diseases because God put them there to test us. But then you forget to ask what kind of test that really is.

Children are born sick. Families are broken by loss. People suffer before they even understand life. If that is called a test, then you have to admit it raises hard questions too.

Maybe that is also why some people become stuck in the same pattern. There is always an answer, always forgiveness, and never any real need to change or grow as human beings.

You do not make it easy for yourself when you claim to seek truth, speak truth, and read a lot, but only shop from the shelves that suit you.

I rely on faith because sometimes it's all you have. Life sucks at times. Mostly about loss, bad people getting what they want, cheating, scamming, abuse, neglect, lies, manipulations , corruption and failures, but there are some good things.

That bad people get away with things while the decent hurt, shows me more that's is still a test.

You can know most everything but it may not help you, and you can know a little, and believe, and it will be all good and no pain when you get to heaven.

Everyone comes from their own share of hell and good. It's what you do with it that counts, as no one has all the answers. Temporary life here, forever in heaven. That people can go through hell on earth and still believe in God, is exactly what I would see as a test.

27 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

People die every day from genetic failures and diseases. He put them there to test us. To see how we react to loss. The main thing is still that this is only a temporary stop on the road to forever.

You’re using evidence that he doesn’t exist or is evil to justify his existence and that he’s good after we die?

That doesn’t hold water Fred.

27 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

But you were quoting Bible verses above.

The "Holy Spirit" is so vague as to barely mean anything.

It means nothing to me.

The whole concept of Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit as part of trinity is there to bamboozle, mystify and persuade you it’s a higher purpose than mere humans can understand.

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Much of the Bible is true, but some isn't. The only way to know is when we die and see what's next. The more you get into things Christian the more you understand .

I agree with the last part. Certainly, the more I researched Christianity, the more I understood it was complete BS and fails the test of goodness.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I rely on faith because sometimes it's all you have. Life sucks at times. Mostly about loss, bad people getting what they want, cheating, scamming, abuse, neglect, lies, manipulations , corruption and failures, but there are some good things.

That bad people get away with things while the decent hurt, shows me more that's is still a test.

You can know most everything but it may not help you, and you can know a little, and believe, and it will be all good and no pain when you get to heaven.

Everyone comes from their own share of hell and good. It's what you do with it that counts, as no one has all the answers. Temporary life here, forever in heaven. That people can go through hell on earth and still believe in God, is exactly what I would see as a test.

Why would he need to test you? For what purpose?

He’s already all knowing.

32 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You telling me you do not have time ?

🤔

I could make time, but I’ve learned that the most valuable thing I own, is my time.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You’re using evidence that he doesn’t exist or is evil to justify his existence and that he’s good after we die?

That doesn’t hold water Fred.

The whole concept of Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit as part of trinity is there to bamboozle, mystify and persuade you it’s a higher purpose than mere humans can understand.

I agree with the last part. Certainly, the more I researched Christianity, the more I understood it was complete BS and fails the test of goodness.

.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Why would he need to test you? For what purpose?

He’s already all knowing.

This is why I've always said you'll see when you die. He created us and sits back, letting us use our free will, to see if we follow that creation and do what's right, or just do what we want and not care about anything more than this life.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by fredwiggy