13 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

All I did was post a topic, and tell how I feel about it. I agree with it, as it has merit, and it mirrors all others who have actually interviewed thousands of prostitutes through the years. Their words matter. while the men who go with these women don't. Yes, sex does those things, and all I said is that people can go without it and still live healthy lives, as long as the men masturbate. I never said it was supposed to be or necessarily a better thing, as sex is always a good thing if both parties are getting something positive from it, which leaves prostitution out, as it always puts a dent in the women involved. This is what that women and all those who have spoken to them has said all along. Addition: Prostitution causes severe physical, psychological, and systemic harm to women, frequently resulting in trauma levels comparable to combat veterans or torture survivors. [1, 2]

Psychological Trauma

• Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): Studies show that roughly 55% to 68% of women in prostitution experience clinical symptoms of PTSD.

• Depression and Anxiety: High rates of generalized anxiety, severe depression, and panic attacks stem from constant threat and societal stigma.

• Dissociation: Many women mentally detach or dissociate from their bodies as a coping mechanism to endure repeated sexual assault and physical abuse.

• Substance Abuse: High rates of alcohol and drug addiction frequently develop as tools to numb physical pain or escape psychological distress.

Physical and Health Damage

• Physical Violence: Women in the sex trade face extreme rates of routine physical assault, rape, battering, and captivity by buyers and pimps.

• Chronic Illness: Constant high stress leads to premature aging, chronic pelvic floor damage, gastrointestinal disorders, and sleep disturbances.

• Infections: Women face elevated risks of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and chronic reproductive tract issues. [1]

Systemic and Social Factors

• Economic Coercion: The vast majority of women enter and remain in prostitution due to extreme poverty, lack of alternative survival options, or trafficking.

• Marginalization: The system disproportionately preys upon women from economically disadvantaged, racialized, or otherwise marginalized backgrounds. [1, 2]

• Human Rights Violations: Major international bodies, such as the UN Human Rights Council, classify prostitution as a systemic form of violence and exploitation rather than legitimate work.

• Are these legitimate or not? Who would disagree?

Nah, I'm calling BS on this.

The negative aspects of prostitution are blown out of proportion. And the positive aspects of prostitution are ignored.

Probably because there are many organizations who benefit from clamping down on prostitution. And most governments want people to live "normal lives" ie get married, have children, plunk down on a mortgage.

Edited Saturday at 07:51 AM3 days by save the frogs

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I've stated what I feel about this, and that I'm well aware of predator women who are evil minded. This isn't about them but the women who are in this trade.

I think some here aren't understanding what I stated, which I've done numerous times.

There isn't any judgement as other's words are what describes them and how they feel about things, which has nothing to do with me.

Question: Do some males dominate over females. Of course they do.

This topic explained how prostitution is one way they do, and if it's FULLY read, it speaks for itself. it doesn't matter who wrote it, as it mirrors many other articles and studies done by those who actually interviewed those thousands of prostitutes from all over, and not just Thailand.

I’m not sure you understand the article yourself, Fred, when you say you agree wholeheartedly with it.

21 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Sex is indeed a fundamental biological drive, and not having sex is negative for a variety of reasons.

Celibacy is not a realistic option for those outside of monkhood, and we all know how healthy that abstinence tends to be. I have no interest in becoming a pedophile.

When you have sex, good sex, you really feel like a man, it's instinct, you don't get that feeling cooking or DIY or sport or talking nonsense on here, the sexless guys on here and women wouldn't understand

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Fred, that is exactly the problem. You say the post speaks for itself, but then you also say how people respond shows how they feel about women.

That makes disagreement with the article into something personal about the men disagreeing with it, instead of allowing that parts of the article itself can be questioned.

I do not doubt many women are abused, trapped or exploited. But women are not one group with one experience, and neither are prostitutes in New York, Thailand, Europe or anywhere else.

If you say we should listen to women themselves, then we also have to listen to the women who do not describe themselves as victims.

Do you deny there are women who actually take advantage of men, and use their skills as women as best they can? Do you deny some women can enjoy the feeling of having power over men, using both their body and their intellect to find the weak points in men, and that some specialize in certain types of men?

That does not excuse the men who knowingly use and abuse women because they can, or who look away from the fact that what they are doing can hurt women who are not in a position of power and have few or no real options in life. Many of these women also struggle to handle a normal day to day job or stay consistent, and some carry trauma or mental health challenges that make them even more vulnerable.

What seems to be, in the main, a sensible and balanced perspective.

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

There are definite misogynists on this forum as many have stated, some with their own words what women are to them,and of course they will tell how they feel about women in general, let alone women who are paid for in this trade.

So, you think men who pay for sex are mysoginists?

Just now, save the frogs said:

Nah, I'm calling BS on this.

As I've mentioned already, there are far more women being abused in marriages and normal relationships than prostitutes.

The negative aspects of prostitution are blown way out of proportion.

And the positive aspects of prostitution are ignored completely.

Probably because there are many organizations who benefit from clamping down on prostitution. And most governments want people to live "normal lives" ie get married, have children, plunk down on a mortgage.

And the people who get paid most in society are real estate developers selling property to families, half of which will end up in broken homes. And don't forget divorce lawyers. One of the highest paid jobs in the US if you want to get rich.

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No one has to believe anything written here as all of it is easily researched. Some won't as they are okay with prostitution and use the trade. Others will agree, as they've stated, both with words and emojis.

Being in denial of what these women go through isn't helping them.

Again, there is more violence in this trade than with normal relationships, and that also can be researched. Everyone here has internet access, so it doesn't matter what I believe as it all can be looked up.

There are no positive aspects of prostitution for those involved besides getting paid for something they really don't want to do, and wouldn't if the government would help them in poverty stricken countries, especially if they have children.

This topic has been around for as long as all of us have lived, with the studies done for a very long time.

These studies are people who are talking to the prostitutes themselves, asking them how they live and how they feel. Impossible to dispute those actually living it, as those who pay for sex are only interested in themselves.

Why are you telling men not to have sex? Why not tell women to live without a lot of money and expenses? Would that not be a much more productive way to try and eliminate prostitution? And just as successful, surely.

Prostitution has TWO parties. Not just one. There is no male dominance, the woman dominates this transaction, she sets the prices, when the money has to be paid, how long the service lasts...it's woman dominated from start to finish. They're exploiting the male sex drive, which testosterone creates in men.

We are the victims. Not the women.

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Lack of sex seriously effs people up. It does create deviants and crazy people.

Yep, no deviants and crazy people where sex os available on tap is there (e.g Pattaya, BKK, TH) ?

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

When you have sex, good sex, you really feel like a man, it's instinct, you don't get that feeling cooking or DIY or sport or talking nonsense on here, the sexless guys on here and women wouldn't understand

Speaking from your own experience of course.

Do you feel more of a man or less of a man because you have to pay for it?

Is it less manly to shoot fish in a barrel and more manly to go ocean fishing in a one man boat?

Being a man isn't just about having sex. It's also how you go about it.

Just now, Tourist2 said:

Yep, no deviants and crazy people where sex os available on tap is there (e.g Pattaya, BKK, TH) ?

I understand you can have sex and still be crazy. But there is a documented correlation between abstinence and bestiality and pedophilia. Why do priests brutalize choir boys? No opportunity for sex with women and availability of boys. Why do arab sheepherders have sex with sheep? No opportunity for sex with women but plenty of sheep.

Edited Saturday at 07:58 AM3 days by Cameroni

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No one has to believe anything written here as all of it is easily researched. Some won't as they are okay with prostitution and use the trade. Others will agree, as they've stated, both with words and emojis.

Being in denial of what these women go through isn't helping them.

Again, there is more violence in this trade than with normal relationships, and that also can be researched. Everyone here has internet access, so it doesn't matter what I believe as it all can be looked up.

There are no positive aspects of prostitution for those involved besides getting paid for something they really don't want to do, and wouldn't if the government would help them in poverty stricken countries, especially if they have children.

This topic has been around for as long as all of us have lived, with the studies done for a very long time.

These studies are people who are talking to the prostitutes themselves, asking them how they live and how they feel. Impossible to dispute those actually living it, as those who pay for sex are only interested in themselves.

We need a mental illness forum or perhaps to move this thread to Health & Medicine.

3 minutes ago, NewGuy87 said:

So, you think men who pay for sex are mysoginists?

To me, being a misogynist means you look down on women. It's an individual thing which only the men involved know. Why are they going with the hookers is the question.

This explains more......Mixed Attitudes: Some sociological surveys evaluating clients' general views on gender roles in the workplace and home find no uniform pattern of workplace or domestic sexism compared to broader demographic baselines.

• Diverse Intentions: Research into the motivations behind purchasing sex reveals a wide spectrum of personal drivers, including a search for emotional intimacy, coping with loneliness, or addressing perceived inadequacies in existing relationships, rather than a uniform intent to demean women.

Critical and Feminist Perspectives

• Power Dynamics: Feminist critiques argue that the structure of commercial sex inherently embeds a power imbalance, where economic disparity allows one party to purchase access to another's body.

• Hostile Masculinity Studies: Certain psychological evaluations have pointed to correlations between sex-buying behavior and traits associated with hostile masculinity, entitlement, or a preference for impersonal power dynamics over egalitarian relationships.

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

I'm not saying you can have sex and still be crazy. But there is a documented correlation between abstinence and bestiality and pedophilia. Why do priests brutalize choir boys? No opportunity for sex with women and availability of boys. Why do arab sheepherders have sex with sheep? No opportunity for sex with women but plenty of sheep.

No, it's a personal mental illness with nothing to do with not having women around. A priest can find a woman easily if he wants to. Going after boys and or children is a power thing, a deviance in them.

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Being in denial of what these women go through isn't helping them.

People who attack prostitution and promote marriage are in denial about all the potential problems associated with marriage.

PTSD? Is that one of your arguments against prostitution? And you are not willing to admit that people suffer PTSD from their failed marriages and relationships -- of which there are millions and millions.

Here, take a look at this guy. His marriage failed after 20 years and now he spends his life creating Youtube videos about how women are evil and men should stay single. You don't think his failed marriage scarred him for life?

This AI business is sad @fredwiggy

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I’m not sure you understand the article yourself, Fred, when you say you agree wholeheartedly with it.

I understand it completely, as I have all the others I've read. Again, you have to read all of it, and understand it to know why it's written. This is just one perspective. There are many others out there. Many others say the same things. Some won't bother to research and only go by their opinions. They might be right or wrong. Some opinions are based on not caring what women think or feel. All a person has to do is be honest with themselves and ask themselves why they go with these women.

6 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

I understand you can have sex and still be crazy. But there is a documented correlation between abstinence and bestiality and pedophilia. Why do priests brutalize choir boys? No opportunity for sex with women and availability of boys. Why do arab sheepherders have sex with sheep? No opportunity for sex with women but plenty of sheep.

That's a theory but I'm not sure the % of peado priests is any higher than % of peado school teachers.

Don't know about Arab sheep herders or the % of them who shag sheep.
I'm English and we call the Welsh 'Sheep shaggers' but I'm not confident they do actually do it (shag sheep).

As for "I understand you can have sex and still be crazy" imho Pattaya style places have more crazy people per square foot than any other place on earth so maybe to more sex = the more perversion and mental disorders?

Maybe people who have loads of sex have to get more perverted and deranged as the regular stuff gets boring after a while - I've heard that's how some men end up with ladyboys - there was a famous NYC Hip Hop DJ (Mr C) who explained it that way after he was repeatedly caught with trannies.

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

People who attack prostitution and promote marriage are in denial about all the potential problems associated with marriage.

PTSD? Is that one of your arguments against prostitution? And you are not willing to admit that people suffer PTSD from their failed marriages and relationships -- of which there are millions and millions.

Here, take a look at this guy. His marriage failed after 20 years and now he spends his life creating Youtube videos about how women are evil and men should stay single. You don't think his failed marriage scarred him for life?

I've said this numerous times. I believe what the posting says, as well as numerous others I've read. Do you really think prostitution is a substitute for a real wife, girlfriend and family? All types of relationships have problems. this isn't about them but this trade and what it does to women involved. A separate thing. Of course many men, and women, will diss marriage because they had problems in theirs. I've been married three times and still believe in it, as it's a major reason we're here on earth.

Again, all a man has to do is ask himself why he likes prostitution. Some just want easy sex, and some are there to hurt , control or a lot worse.

Trafficking is the worst form of human destruction, and many are rich because of it, and many men partake in the trade with women who are trafficked. How do they know otherwise, or would they care? Do any johns actually care about the women they're with? Millions go with prostitutes and how many marry one?

1 minute ago, Tourist2 said:

As for "I understand you can have sex and still be crazy" imho Pattaya style places have more crazy people per square foot than any other place on earth so maybe to more sex = the more perversion and mental disorders?

How can you quantify that and prove that Pattaya has more "crazy" people?

Answer: you cannot.

1 minute ago, Tourist2 said:

That's a theory but I'm not sure the % of peado priests is any higher than % of peado school teachers.

Don't know about Arab sheep herders or the % of them who shag sheep.
I'm English and we call the Welsh 'Sheep shaggers' but I'm not confident they do actually do it (shag sheep).

As for "I understand you can have sex and still be crazy" imho Pattaya style places have more crazy people per square foot than any other place on earth so maybe to more sex = the more perversion and mental disorders?

Maybe people who have loads of sex have to get more perverted and deranged as the regular stuff gets boring after a while - I've heard that's how some men end up with ladyboys - there was a famous NYC Hip Hop DJ (Mr C) who explained it that way after he was repeatedly caught with trannies.

I think you're onto something, it's two sides of the same coin, if you completely abstain you end up shagging sheep or choir boys, but if you go full on hedonist you end up like John Mcaffee or de Sade, thinking about eating poop.

Andrea Dworkin is now dead, but in case anyone is curious as to why she might be bitter about so-called "male dominance," it's worth doing a search for her picture.

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Andrea Dworkin is now dead, but in case anyone is curious as to why she might be bitter about so-called "male dominance," it's worth doing a search for her picture.

Okay, so I'll provide another two links https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2563855/ that shows what goes on, seeing some here are making this personal against her because she isn't attractive, as if being attractive makes you more worthy of being read..............https://mission-freedom.de/en/prostitution-and-its-consequences/

Edited Saturday at 08:20 AM3 days by fredwiggy

4 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

How can you quantify that and prove that Pattaya has more "crazy" people?

Answer: you cannot.

I'm not saying YOU are crazy cos you live in Pattaya (there's an exception to every rule) but
IMHO
Pattaya has the MOST <deleted> up resident population of any place in the world.

Full of jaded, bitter Cluster-B hoes and johns.
VERY unhealthy environment to live in but GL

20 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Speaking from your own experience of course.

Do you feel more of a man or less of a man because you have to pay for it?

Is it less manly to shoot fish in a barrel and more manly to go ocean fishing in a one man boat?

Being a man isn't just about having sex. It's also how you go about it.

Paying for it doesn't make any difference, remember you are supporting your girlfriend = paying for it if indeed you are having sex. Also average girlfriend or wife sex doesn't count

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Paying for it doesn't make any difference, remember you are supporting your girlfriend = paying for it if indeed you are having sex. Also average girlfriend or wife sex doesn't count

Remember? I don't 'support' my girlfriend any more than she supports me. No payment involved. All costs shared. All girlfriends exactly the same. You obviously have not ever had such relationships.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Do you really think prostitution is a substitute for a real wife, girlfriend and family?

In some instances, yes.

Example 1: Someone who is in between marriages. You just got through a 20 year marriage and nasty divorce. It might not be healthy to get into another relationship for a while. And if these women are there and need money, who cares? You are not married and probably not in a good state of mind to get into another committed relationship.

Example 2: You're a screwed up human being. Despite the nonsense that the previous poster has mentioned where he portrays Pattaya dwellers as crazier than the average human being, this is just slander and a smear campaign against prostitution. There's plenty of crazy married people. I just gave you a quote previously where a woman was in a miserable marriage for 23 years. You think it's ok for a human being to dump their toxicity on a marriage partner for 23 years? Yet millions of people are doing precisely that. If they weren't married, they wouldn't be dumping their toxicity on that person.

I specifically know one person who abused his children (psychologically, although I don't know about sexual abuse). Now one of his children is diagnosed with schizophrenia, is a heavy drug user, and gets into fights. He has completely ruined his child's life because he has never worked on his own mental illness. A person like that would have done much less damage in society by never getting married and having children at all and frequenting prostitutes instead.

36 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Nah, I'm calling BS on this.

The negative aspects of prostitution are blown out of proportion. And the positive aspects of prostitution are ignored.

Probably because there are many organizations who benefit from clamping down on prostitution. And most governments want people to live "normal lives" ie get married, have children, plunk down on a mortgage.

This is to add to what you mentioned earlier, "Women in the sex trade have the highest rates of rape, physical assault, and homicide of any group of women ever studied. It’s been estimated that women involved in street prostitution are 60 to 100 times more likely to be murdered than are non-prostituted women.^{".........https://cease.org.uk/facts/prostitution-2/not-so-happy-hookers-the-reality-of-prostitution/}

Edited Saturday at 08:32 AM3 days by fredwiggy

38 minutes ago, NewGuy87 said:

I should bloody hope so. Otherwise, they aint doing it right, lol.

All jokes aside, they know where the 300 baht a day jobs are.

What is a short time now, 2-4k or something?

Up to them. Hell mend 'em.

It's not my quote...

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

In some instances, yes.

Example 1: Someone who is in between marriages. You just got through a 20 year marriage and nasty divorce. It might not be healthy to get into another relationship for a while. And if these women are there and need money, who cares? You are not married and probably not in a good state of mind to get into another committed relationship.

Example 2: You're a screwed up human being. Despite the nonsense that the previous poster has mentioned where he portrays Pattaya dwellers as crazier than the average human being, this is just slander and a smear campaign against prostitution. There's plenty of crazy married people. I just gave you a quote previously where a woman was in a miserable marriage for 23 years. You think it's ok for a human being to dump their toxicity on a marriage partner for 23 years? Yet millions of people are doing precisely that. If they weren't married, they wouldn't be dumping their toxicity on that person.

I specifically know one person who abused his children (psychologically, although I don't know about sexual abuse). Now one of his children is diagnosed with schizophrenia, is a heavy drug user, and gets into fights. He has completely ruined his child's life because he has never worked on his own mental illness. A person like that would have done much less damage in society by never getting married and having children at all and frequenting prostitutes instead.

There are other options. Find a woman who's looking for a man just for kicks, as many are in websites. I understand not wanting to get back in the saddle as far as a relationship, but dating is still a valid thing, and while dating, it's rather easy to find a woman that's also just looking for companionship. Even here.

Yes, the problem with all relationships that go sour is not vetting long enough, no like future plans, and hidden anger from previous relationships, which is where vetting comes into place. I, along with millions of people, have made that mistake more than once, so taking as long as you can to learn the other person is always best, unless of course you want the former.

People don't think about going into relationships thinking they aren't going to last with the exception of the narcissist, who goes into all relationships to see what they can get, then toss aside the partner to find another one. That's the screwed up human being. And the children from those suffer the most, as they have an attachment to the narcissist, even though they couldn't give a rat's arse.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

This is to add to what you mentioned earlier, "Women in the sex trade have the highest rates of rape, physical assault, and homicide of any group of women ever studied. It’s been estimated that women involved in street prostitution are 60 to 100 times more likely to be murdered than are non-prostituted women.^{".............from this link........................https://cease.org.uk/facts/prostitution-2/not-so-happy-hookers-the-reality-of-prostitution/}

I don't have time to get a Phd in prostitution.

But I believe those statistics are false.

Watch The Law&Crime network on Youtube. There are many many spouses or ex-spouses who murder each other .... which dwarfs violence in prostitution.

Betrayal or rejection of a marriage partner you've had for 20 years makes people act crazy. There is no emotional bond with a prostitute, and it's generally emotions that make people act crazy.