Have You Ever Mistaken A Man For A Woman?

[eek]

I will post a funny story that happened to me recently.

I have a thyroid condition at the moment and thus have a small 'goiter' (lump at the front of my throat) (im female btw). Having my hair blow-dried at the hairdressers (yes I bet you can guess what is coming...), the Thai ladyboy doing my hair was chatting away to her colleague. She sections my hair and pins it up and then goes quiet for a sec. In a surprised voice she says to her friend "oh, kit wah khow ben Katoy!" (or something like that: "oh, i think she is Ladyboy!") Her friend looks at me with wide eyes and then smiles.

Well, i felt a bit crap for a bit while sitting there, then i told myself..she seemed surprised = good sign. Most Katoy are pretty = good sign. Ok, so never mind!

(erm and for those thinking western woman = manly. I am actually very feminine ty! If i had any concerns about my femininity i would not be telling this story )

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farang prince, wonderful post!

[Dupont]

Never been with one before. But one of my wifes friends is so convincing. You would never know. I mean you would never pick it. She has a good shape and nothing manly about her at all.

R

Did you miss that out?

[farang prince]

I will post a funny story that happened to me recently.

I have a thyroid condition at the moment and thus have a small 'goiter' (lump at the front of my throat) (im female btw). Having my hair blow-dried at the hairdressers (yes I bet you can guess what is coming...), the Thai ladyboy doing my hair was chatting away to her colleague. She sections my hair and pins it up and then goes quiet for a sec. In a surprised voice she says to her friend "oh, kit wah khow ben Katoy!" (or something like that: "oh, i think she is Ladyboy!") Her friend looks at me with wide eyes and then smiles.

Well, i felt a bit crap for a bit while sitting there, then i told myself..she seemed surprised = good sign. Most Katoy are pretty = good sign. Ok, so never mind!

(erm and for those thinking western woman = manly. I am actually very feminine ty! If i had any concerns about my femininity i would not be telling this story )

--------------------------

farang prince, wonderful post!

Thanks Eek. Funny story.

[Neeranam]

I will post a funny story that happened to me recently.

I have a thyroid condition at the moment and thus have a small 'goiter' (lump at the front of my throat) (im female btw). Having my hair blow-dried at the hairdressers (yes I bet you can guess what is coming...), the Thai ladyboy doing my hair was chatting away to her colleague. She sections my hair and pins it up and then goes quiet for a sec. In a surprised voice she says to her friend "oh, kit wah khow ben Katoy!" (or something like that: "oh, i think she is Ladyboy!") Her friend looks at me with wide eyes and then smiles.

Well, i felt a bit crap for a bit while sitting there, then i told myself..she seemed surprised = good sign. Most Katoy are pretty = good sign. Ok, so never mind!

(erm and for those thinking western woman = manly. I am actually very feminine ty! If i had any concerns about my femininity i would not be telling this story )

--------------------------

farang prince, wonderful post!

Once in Bkk, when I was wearing a kilt, many Thais asked if I were a ladyboy

I'm not btw.

[BambinA]

Good informative post, thanks, farangprince. I always wondered what happened to the lb's after 30+ years of age.

Look at my avatar then.I am 30's. Although I am not a LB right now, I was a lb 17 years ago.

I still have a secure job as a doctor. (going to take a genetic engineering course soon)

Hope my post elaborates your curiousity.

[percy2]

I will post a funny story that happened to me recently.

I have a thyroid condition at the moment and thus have a small 'goiter' (lump at the front of my throat) (im female btw). Having my hair blow-dried at the hairdressers (yes I bet you can guess what is coming...), the Thai ladyboy doing my hair was chatting away to her colleague. She sections my hair and pins it up and then goes quiet for a sec. In a surprised voice she says to her friend "oh, kit wah khow ben Katoy!" (or something like that: "oh, i think she is Ladyboy!") Her friend looks at me with wide eyes and then smiles.

Well, i felt a bit crap for a bit while sitting there, then i told myself..she seemed surprised = good sign. Most Katoy are pretty = good sign. Ok, so never mind!

(erm and for those thinking western woman = manly. I am actually very feminine ty! If i had any concerns about my femininity i would not be telling this story )

That made me smile!

It also reminded me of the fantastic scene in Miss Congeniality as Michael Cane minces along a New York? sidewalk.

Victor Melling: [teaching Gracie how to glide] See? Glide. It's all in the buttocks. Don't I look pretty?

Gracie Hart: It takes a very secure man to walk like that.

Cheers

[technocracy]

Nope. I have become a very good spotter though - since my wife has numerous katoey friends and the is even one in the extended family.

The most convincing I've met here was in Savannahket - had the adams apple removed whoever had the knuckles and toes gave her away . . . bigger than mine!

But I've seen many men get off with my wifes friends at the nightclubs here who seem completely oblivious that the she he has his arm around is a he .. ..

Being a gentleman, I've never told any of them . . after all hey it's their choice and she is the friend not the bloke.

I've also heard conversation between the gay and katoey about there hiding their member skills . . containing more details than I really needed to know! :D

So you not accept those that had the full operation to becom a women?

Have you ever talked with them?

Read my post again before asking plainly stupid questions.

1. None of our friends have had the full op (I'd of thought the comment about them hiding their member might give this away!).

2) Yes many many many times, everytime I see them regardless of whether I am with my wife or not. We have many gay & katoey friends, I used to have several gay friends in the UK also. The one I met in Savanhkhet I stood talking with her for about 30 minutes . . . sorry to disappoint you.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Look at my avatar then.I am 30's. Although I am not a LB right now, I was a lb 17 years ago.

I still have a secure job as a doctor. (going to take a genetic engineering course soon)

Hope my post elaborates your curiousity.

Most definitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just imagine what genetic engineering could do... Soon we may finally break free from the limitations of having just three genders.

[Suszzy]

First and foremost, ladyboys are human beings. Some of you cynics will probably just write them off as psychologically screwed up people. You are welcome to your opinion. In my experience, most ladyboys are very emotionally vulnerable, but also highly intelligent, and are sincerely seeking a secure relationship. If you show them honesty and compassion and provide a secure life for them, you will have a devoted and dedicated partner who will be with you until the end of time.

very well said. i agree with you completely.

i have a ladyboy friend in England and we got on very well.

she's a very caring and warm heart person,good sense of humor, happy going

make it a true joy to be with.To me, she's a girlfriend like the other friends.

the sadness is some of my friends doesn't want to know but that's fine

by me nothing wrong with that.But they always nice and polite to her.

Never slag her off... life is so complicated..eh!!

[kmart]

Good informative post, thanks, farangprince. I always wondered what happened to the lb's after 30+ years of age.

Look at my avatar then.I am 30's. Although I am not a LB right now, I was a lb 17 years ago.

I still have a secure job as a doctor. (going to take a genetic engineering course soon)

Hope my post elaborates your curiousity.

Good for you, BambinA. I wondered if the lb's who never had the surgery just returned to being gay men after a certain age... and farangprince answered my curiosity with a very informative post.

Edited November 2, 2007 by kmart

[Stephen Cleary]

No bad for a chick born a man. Now, would you have kicked her out of bed for eating durian if you hadn't known?

Miss Tiffany Universe 2004

Edited November 2, 2007 by Stephen Cleary

[meemiathai]

Often my old friends ask me if I've ever been fooled by a ladyboy.

I used to be embarrassed to say yes, but now I couldn't care.

Once, in 1995 I was fooled by one I realised I had made a mistake before anything was done

How about you? How far did you go?

No never, I can always tell.

BTW, didn't realize that you were a lesbian!

[meemiathai]

First and foremost, ladyboys are human beings. Some of you cynics will probably just write them off as psychologically screwed up people. You are welcome to your opinion. In my experience, most ladyboys are very emotionally vulnerable, but also highly intelligent, and are sincerely seeking a secure relationship. If you show them honesty and compassion and provide a secure life for them, you will have a devoted and dedicated partner who will be with you until the end of time.

very well said. i agree with you completely.

i have a ladyboy friend in England and we got on very well.

she's a very caring and warm heart person,good sense of humor, happy going

make it a true joy to be with.To me, she's a girlfriend like the other friends.

the sadness is some of my friends doesn't want to know but that's fine

by me nothing wrong with that.But they always nice and polite to her.

Never slag her off... life is so complicated..eh!!

[Jockstar]

Often my old friends ask me if I've ever been fooled by a ladyboy.

I used to be embarrassed to say yes, but now I couldn't care.

Once, in 1995 I was fooled by one I realised I had made a mistake before anything was done

How about you? How far did you go?

No never, I can always tell.

BTW, didn't realize that you were a lesbian!

I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body.

[jayjayjayjay]

I spent half an hour outside a cabaret last week, talking with a ladyboy who designs costumes for the shows. She's over 30 and gorgeous, perfectly dressed to dance in the show, the right makeup, the right moves. I didn't look at her adam's apple, but she had quite a rack and her hair was long and beautiful. Our discussion was based on her being a lady with a Japanese boyfriend, me being a gay farang who likes men. She's a successful businesswoman, owning shophouses, etc. Her voice gives her away if you're trying to figure it out, but some women have low voices.

PB, always wanted to get my head around this one. As a gay guy, does a guy have to be a mans-man to be attractive to you? If a man then becomes a ladyboy does that remove them from your sights or are they still of interest as they were born a guy. What if a boy was a little undecided, was a ladyboy for a short time, then decided to be a straight guy again, how would this alter the view in terms of becomming a gay lover. Personally ladyboys are of no interest to me as they were born guys, no matter what the operations, they still don't raise a tickle in junior.

I do however know of a case where a full-on Tom girl became amorous with a fresh young ladyboy, courted her for month, I left the scene before knowing where this went, but at that time the Tom did not appear to know it was a ladyboy(possibly the cutest thin shouldered ladyboy I have seen EVER), but it was interesting that they could have enjoyed a completely fullfilling love life but the "husband" would have been the one getting pregnant!!!

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Yeah, I've seen such a case too. It happens. The only thing is perhaps that most ladyboys would prefer a more masculine person in the male role.

Oh, and if this gets confusing and someone ever needs some reassurance: Just let the person parallel park your truck. If this results in a total mess then it's safe to nail her.

Edited November 2, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[TonyLeung]

Maybe if you see them from the side or out of the corner of your eye, but never if you spend more than 10 seconds around them or listen to them speak.

[PeaceBlondie]

More or less in response to jayjayjayjayjay's question, most of the gay men that I've known wanted another gay man as a partner. We're not looking for a lady or a man who dresses and acts like a lady. Men dressed as ladies don't get my junior tickled at all. Maybe 30 years ago when I was still brainwashed into thinking I could pass as a straight man, but no longer.

At the very same cabaret where I spoke to that beautiful ladyboy businesswoman, one of the dancers once tried her best to get me to take her on a date, even bragging about 'the size of her tackle.' I wasn't interested.

[farang prince]

More or less in response to jayjayjayjayjay's question, most of the gay men that I've known wanted another gay man as a partner. We're not looking for a lady or a man who dresses and acts like a lady. Men dressed as ladies don't get my junior tickled at all. Maybe 30 years ago when I was still brainwashed into thinking I could pass as a straight man, but no longer.

At the very same cabaret where I spoke to that beautiful ladyboy businesswoman, one of the dancers once tried her best to get me to take her on a date, even bragging about 'the size of her tackle.' I wasn't interested.

PB, most posters on TV don't understand the nuances of gay life. Gay men are attracted to other gay men...it is the male body that excites them...not the female body that is featured on a ladyboy. While I know of a couple of gay men/ladyboy relationships, they are rare. In those cases, the gay men are very butch and so the ladyboys fit into their vision of an ideal partner. In virtually every other case, the partners of ladyboys are bisexual or straight men.

There are a number of variants of the ladyboy culture but the most common are transvestites, transsexuals and transgendered ladyboys. Transvestites are men who have a male body and dress as women. Transsexuals are pre-op ladyboys who have either taken hormones or received breast implants to simulate a female figure. Transgendered ladyboys have had surgery to remove their genitalia and have a surgically created pussy and are often referred to as "post-op".

An academic study undertaken in the early 1990's indicated there were about 250,000 ladyboys in Thailand...most of them pre-op. As I indicated in an earlier post, to be completely transgendered is very expensive, even in Thailand, and costs between $6,000 and $10,000 USD. Incidentally, few ladyboys who have had transgendering surgery will actually stop there...they want to have their larynx shaved, their vocal cords tightened and even plastic surgery to elongate their jawline. The vast majority of Thai ladyboys that I know really yearn to be transgendered and religiously save money to pay for the surgery. But few ever attain it because of the cost.

In other countries, most notably the Philippines, ladyboys are called "shemales" and very few of them desire to have transgendering surgery. From my limited experience in the Philippines, most shemales have taken hormones or have had breast implants. But the majority of shemales are involved in the sex trade there and their conversion from gay male to shemale is more a financial decision within the scope of the prostitution industry than a psycholigical commitment to becoming a female. The same can be said of the transsexual community in Brazil.

The world of a ladyboy is highly complex and really requires further study by academics. It would be very important to know, for instance, the long-term impact on a ladyboy of taking a high dosage of hormones in their 'teens and early 20's. Are they more succeptible to breast cancer or prostate cancer. And it would also be interesting to know how a ladyboy's body ages as the years go by. That information would be extremely valuable to my ladyboy and myself, as well as thousands of other young men who are considering a transgendered life.

[jayjayjayjay]

More or less in response to jayjayjayjayjay's question, most of the gay men that I've known wanted another gay man as a partner. We're not looking for a lady or a man who dresses and acts like a lady. Men dressed as ladies don't get my junior tickled at all. Maybe 30 years ago when I was still brainwashed into thinking I could pass as a straight man, but no longer.

At the very same cabaret where I spoke to that beautiful ladyboy businesswoman, one of the dancers once tried her best to get me to take her on a date, even bragging about 'the size of her tackle.' I wasn't interested.

PB, thanks for your answer, my girlfriends older sister is one of the cutests ladyboys in town. She has enjoyed two good relationships with straight Thai guys, both whom set up house with her and took care of her as she was born a girl. I admire both guys but still am a little perplexed. Your answer clears a couple of questions I have never asked a gay guy. Thankyou again for your cadid approach, power to you. Cheers, JayJay

TheEmpour.... a classic statement.........

Edited November 5, 2007 by jayjayjayjay

[WaiWai]

One story, quite well told, is at pattayadailynews.com/showfeature.php?FeatureID=0000000584.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

I myself have been fascinated by Khatoeys for a very long time already, altough i know no more than three of them personally and one of the three is a Filipino But all three of them, i have to say, are way more beautiful than most "real women" out there, and that goes SPECIALLY when they are not wearing any make-up. All three are pre-op by the way, and completely so - not even boob-jobs, just hormones from young age onwards.

I am a gay man and do have a regular gay "man" boyfriend as well, but i DO fancy ladyboys too, but ONLY pre-op - as for me, they combine female beauty (which i DO admire) with male sexuality - which satisfies my own homosexuality.

Sadly all three of my ladyboy friends (and most others too as i was told by them) would NEVER accept a gay man for boyfriend - one of them even told me that once she had some "fun" with a guy and that guy wanted to play with her "accessory" - as a result she immediately kicked him out! She does NOT want her partner, be it boyfriend or casual encounter, to use any of her male features in any way.

But then i have seen videos where ladyboys "do" other ladyboys and even real girls - so that does exist too.

And about the "fooling" bit - no ladyboy could fool me, as there are tell-tale signs - apart from the adam's apple which can be surgically removed (and this is often done in Thailand). Only look at their hands - sure guys can have gentle and slender hands (my boyfriend does!) but they will never be like female hands. Same goes for the feet. And lastly, as they say "what looks to good to be true probably isn't", if a girl is just way more beautiful than the average girl, chances are she's a Khatoey

Best regards.....

Thanh

[papaya9]

Some are real stunners. I saw a few at Tiffany's in Pattaya, and after the show I wanted a photo with a particular one. Three jumped me before reaching "her" and forced me to take their pics instead. Surprisingly, they started begging for money afterward and began spitting venom when they realized I wasn't giving them more than 100 B. They really looked quite ugly and pathetic after doing this. 'Tis a shame!

[Pepe']

I have had to look very very closely on many many occasions but never been fooled.

"If a straight man has sex with a katoey, it's only wrong if you enjoy it" - old Thai country saying.

My buddie tells me at certain times of the year lady boys go back up country to visit.

Lots of guys in the village are serviced by them and it's considered quite normal.

Anyone ever hear of this?

Also when they are there they kind of run/command the village.

Nobody f_cks with them because the katoey will beat their a_s?

[Pundi64]

Often my old friends ask me if I've ever been fooled by a ladyboy.

I used to be embarrassed to say yes, but now I couldn't care.

Once, in 1995 I was fooled by one I realised I had made a mistake before anything was done

How about you? How far did you go?

Do the test, like in the original "The Crocodile Hunter" movie, grab the crotch to find out, but this method will not be tolerated in Thailand, because "katoys" are part of the Thailand's open acceptance of lady-boys. which is fine. So the adams apple, and voice awareness.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Pundi64

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I don't drink enough to make the mistake.

[Pepe']

I don't drink enough to make the mistake.

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I came very close one time in Phuket, years ago about 3:00 in the morning.

The "gal" even allowed me to "examen" her while she sat on the bar stool and spread.

I commented something like, " that's incredible, my compliments to your surgeon."

She started laughing and tried to pull my face into home plate.

I narrowly escaped then bought the barmaids and my new friend a drink...

[tropo]

In other countries, most notably the Philippines, ladyboys are called "shemales" and very few of them desire to have transgendering surgery. From my limited experience in the Philippines, most shemales have taken hormones or have had breast implants. But the majority of shemales are involved in the sex trade there and their conversion from gay male to shemale is more a financial decision within the scope of the prostitution industry than a psycholigical commitment to becoming a female. The same can be said of the transsexual community in Brazil.

I don't know where you heard this, but in many years of living in the Philippines I have NEVER heard the expression "shemales".

"Bakla" is the word they use.

[Pepe']

In other countries, most notably the Philippines, ladyboys are called "shemales" and very few of them desire to have transgendering surgery. From my limited experience in the Philippines, most shemales have taken hormones or have had breast implants. But the majority of shemales are involved in the sex trade there and their conversion from gay male to shemale is more a financial decision within the scope of the prostitution industry than a psycholigical commitment to becoming a female. The same can be said of the transsexual community in Brazil.

I don't know where you heard this, but in many years of living in the Philippines I have NEVER heard the expression "shemales".

"Bakla" is the word they use.

-------------------------

I spent quite a bit of time in Subic Bay in the early seventies and I can tell you definitely there were no Balakas. Definitely...

[farang prince]

In other countries, most notably the Philippines, ladyboys are called "shemales" and very few of them desire to have transgendering surgery. From my limited experience in the Philippines, most shemales have taken hormones or have had breast implants. But the majority of shemales are involved in the sex trade there and their conversion from gay male to shemale is more a financial decision within the scope of the prostitution industry than a psycholigical commitment to becoming a female. The same can be said of the transsexual community in Brazil.

I don't know where you heard this, but in many years of living in the Philippines I have NEVER heard the expression "shemales".

"Bakla" is the word they use.

Don't know where you lived in the Phils, but I can tell you haven't been around many shemales. Because that is the term they use throughout the PI. Would you like to talk to one to confirm it?