Work in a bar/restaurant

[seville]

I just saw a post hiring people to work in a restaurant in BKK.

Looked like they were hiring farangs. Can you work legally without being an owner, in a pub? If so, do you just have your boss write a letter and then go apply for your permit?

I know people that work on the QT, but to get a permit and work on the books would save some running to get your tourist visa renewed.

[Sunbelt]

Can you work LEGALLY without being an owner, in a pub?

YES. I know of many. They are called the General Manager, Director of Development, Landlord, Director of Food and Beverage. Just never call them a “waiter” :-)

[sevinnow]

And sooner or later they end up in the "Monkey House" because an "old friend" reported them to immigration for working without the work permit.

Sunbelt encouraging people to work without the correct visa in place.......sponser or not ..you are out of order!

If you want to play the Thai Authorities just keep looking over your shoulder every 2 minutes for the rest of your stay in Thailand, because they will come down hard when they get you.

Sev

[seville]

Sev,

Are you saying that you can't get a work permit for any type of Bar or Resturant work?

[LPCustom69]

The bar or restaurant owner can get you a work permit, but it costs them a lot of baht. And if you get a work permit for a certain job it is for that job ONLY.

:cool:

[sevinnow]

Seville,  To obtain a work permit you need to either buy a Ltd Company with an investment of 2 million baht and submit accounts every year just like in your home country OR you need a sponser ( Bar Owner ) who will guarantee you employment and to obtain this work permit for you he needs proof of an investment of 2 million baht into his Company, the is the legal way to obtain one.

There are other ways but to break the law in a foriegn country like Thailand, well that's upto you.

Regards

Sev

:cool:

[seville]

Okay, so that's 2mill. baht per. person as an investment for each farang in a bussiness to get a type B visa/ work permit.

That would allow us to legelly make money over there.

If we invest that in a Thai business does the taxes go up for the Thai people who own it? Meaning by taking on Farang partners is it going to cost more money to run the business

[sevinnow]

Tax's are based on profit after expenses so it will not affect the situation for a Thai national.

Do I read correct you are going into Partnership with a Thai owned business?   Make sure you get a Farang lawyer do the neccessary formation if you are, to protect your interests because everything you sign will be in Thai Language, hence leaving you a little bit exposed!

If you have 2 million go it alone and be your own boss.

Good Luck

Sev

[Sunbelt]

And sooner or later they end up in the "Monkey House" because an "old friend" reported them to immigration for working without the work permit.

Sunbelt encouraging people to work without the correct visa in place.......sponser or not ..you are out of order!

WHERE does it say in my post" NOT to get a work permit? "

The question was

Can you work legally without being an owner, in a pub?

My response was...

YES. I know of many. They are called the General Manager, Director of Development, Landlord, Director of Food and Beverage. Just never call them a “waiter” :-)

Lets try this again...

The question is "can you work LEGALLY without being an owner in a pub?

The answer is yes. I NEVER said not to get a work permit so sevinnow you're out of order!  In fact thats why they are called "General Manager, Director of Development, Landlord, Director of Food and Beverage." For their WORK PERMIT! If they are not getting a work permit, what does it matter what they are called?

In the future please read CAREFULLY what is written. Thank you.

[Sunbelt]

"Okay, so that's 2mill. baht per. person as an investment for each farang in a bussiness to get a type B visa/ work permit.

That would allow us to legelly make money over there."

The NEW rules are friendlier. You can get two or three work permits on  just one 2 million baht registered company. The Managing Director has to write a letter he will pay you 35,000 baht per month. The foreign employee will need to pay 18,000 Baht tax per year. If the officer knows the new law and most do, you do NOT need 4  Thais for every foreigner. You still have the requirement of 4 Thais to one foreigner on the one year visa.  However, for a one year multi-entry visa, you do NOT have that requirement.  

“If we invest that in a Thai business does the taxes go up for the Thai people who own it?”

The flat corporation tax is 30%. Does not matter how many people work for you. However you as the employer would have the extra cost of supporting a foreigner when you could PERHAPS use several Thais at a lower salary and get the same skills. I said " perhaps!" all depends on the talent needed

[Sunbelt]

"If so, do you just have your boss write a letter and then go apply for your permit?

I know people that work on the QT, but to get a permit and work on the books would save some running to get your tourist visa renewed."

I just reread the full original question. The poster ask about getting a permit two times. We STRONGLY advocate NOT to work without a work permit. To say we do...sevinnow, has me a tad concerned!

[Roger13]

The NEW rules are friendlier

Sunbelt

Hi K. Naravadee,

Could you tell us when these New Rules came into being?

Thanks

(BTW - Seville - who I am sure can well answer for himself

said "Farang Partner" - so IF he is just sharing the Profits

there would not be any additional expense? - I am interested

to know the correct situation myself)

Roger

[Sunbelt]

May 2002

http://www.thaivisa.com/518.0.html

When did this law get past down to the Labor Department officers and they were aware of them? We started getting more than one work permit for clients on just 2 million registered capital  around February 2003

[seville]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not doing anything at the moment and don't think I would be for some years. I'm just trying to get as much information as I can on how one might live in Thailand and make money there legally. And when I say make money, I'm not talking about a lot just enough to live on very modestly.

I would be looking at moving to one of the islands or a coastal area. I have some friends that want to do the same and we are starting to talk about what we might want to try and do.

We would like to start off very small, but it seems that the amount of money you must invest is pretty high. 2 mil. baht is $40.000 U.S. right?

[Sunbelt]

2 million is more like $48,000.

Too have 2 million registered capital, you could put up 25% in paid up capital the first year (500,000). The managing director then could take a shareholders loan for 1.5 million Baht to make up the difference. The director would need to pay interest on that loan every month.

Another way is if you have software you developed that also could be valued at a certain price to offset the difference in the paid up capital.

The problem lies in an investment of 500,000 Baht. Owning an existing business you would be looking at a return of 200,000 Baht per year. Starting a business up would be a huge gamble with such limited funds.

On an investment of 1 million, as a rule of thumb, you would be buying at a multiple of 2.5 earnings. No guarantees and certainly depends on your skills as a owner, etc..but the rule of thumb would be a return of 400,000 Baht. Most foreigners could live a modest life in Thailand. Some even could live like a King, just depends on your personality.

[sevinnow]

If you want to make a real go at Working & Living for good in Thailand $48,000 is no were near enough, a good piece of advice I was given is $96,000 (twice as much) to make it work.

First buy a house with 33% of your capital that way you have something to sell if desperation sets in or you can raise capital against the house by rental ect.

Second only put 33% in your 1st Business venture because at least 80% of new business's do not make their 3rd year.

Thirdly if your business does work there are very poor returns in the low season you you will need to draw on your remaining 33% to keep the business afloat through available cash flow.

And don't forget you signed a declaration upon getting your "B" visa that you have enough funds for repatranation to your home country if funds dry up that's about $1100.

Off the record Sunbelt maybe how you phrased your posting led me to believe in what I said,so an apologie if accepted.

Regards

Sev

[Sunbelt]

I agree the more funds you have in reserve the better you are.

However the big advantage in investing in an existing business and the consensus of business professionals clearly support this that 70% of people investing in a existing business are winners versus the 20% that win starting a business one up.  The reason is simple.

The cash register ringing starts from day one. You know already what your expenses are rather than having any nasty surprises and delays from contractors, suppliers. You have a good indication on how the business model is already working rather than surmising on an business plan with a start-up. You have trained employees in place; the weeding of unproductive employees has already happen in most cases.

The other big advantage of investing in a existing business is you are looking at 10-15 or more businesses and picking out the best one. When you are starting up a business, you can only guess if it will be successful. Looking at existing businesses you're not going to pick the one with the least # of customers! With a start up you can only guess with educated research, what will happen with that one business.

Cash flow on start ups will usually be a problem as when you open the doors, you realize you still have to get the word out about your great product.

With an existing business, the dirty work has been done. Inflows from day one are coming in.

On franchises the odds are also high of being successful. Some studies show 72% and a couple states its closer to 92% that are still in business after 10 years. The reason for this is you are emulating a successful business model. The Franchisor won't grant you a franchise unless you will follow their system and you have capital reserves.

To sum it up… if you want the highest odds. Invest in an existing business or franchise. You have a positive expectation.

Starting up a business, double what ever investment you need. As you are looking at negative odds with start-ups and cash reserves is #1 reason for failure. If your business is not working after 6 months and the handwriting is on the wall. With your capital reserves you can change gears and go in a different direction. Don’t have an ego. It’s all about survival and seeing what works. If that means hiring a business manager then do it. The name of this game is making money.

[Sunbelt]

K. Sev,

Apology accepted. Thank you.

Could you be so kind to edit your response as you now know what my response was referring to. How he could GET a work permit and why the title was important.

Thanking you in advance for the edit.

Regards,

Nui

[stopper]

K. Naravadee,

you have an interesting point about adding the value of the software that someone developed as capitalization for the company.  if you purchased computer equipment here in Thailand before the formation of the limited company, can that value be added to the capitalization requirement once you form the company, i.e. 6 computers, monitors, notebook = 400,000B?  Thank you for your advise.

[Sunbelt]

K. Stopper,

Yes this you can do! Checked with three lawyers in our firm and they all said " Yes. This is ok"

[Brian]

First buy a house with 33% of your capital that way you have something to sell if desperation sets in or you can raise capital against the house by rental ect.

Surely not a house, but something much more easily disposed off.

[jessgoes]

What about if you want to rent a business (bar/restaurant) or takeover a lease. Do you still need to have the 2M Baht investment or, if renting, would you be an employee of the owner?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Boy talk about an old thread. This was from 4 years ago! Immigration and labor laws have changed since then.

What about if you want to rent a business (bar/restaurant) or takeover a lease. Do you still need to have the 2M Baht investment or, if renting, would you be an employee of the owner?

If you are working for a employer or employee of a Thai Limited Company or Limited Partnership, the registered capital must be 2 million Baht per work permit.

If you are married to a Thai then it can be one million Baht registered capital.

If its a Amity Treaty Limied company or partnership then you must show three million from abroad, per work permit. Even if married to a Thai ( this is subject to change but as of today, this is what it is)

If you work for a sole proprietor or natural person, then you can get a work permit three ways.

1. They employed 4 Thais ( married to a Thai, then its 2 Thais)

2. They had a gross turnover last year of 700,000 ( married its 350,000 Baht)

3. The Employer paid tax last year of 50K for the year( married its 25K)

You do not need to show register capital for a sole proprietor.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Bonzie]

<font color='#000000'>Seville,  To obtain a work permit you need to either buy a Ltd Company with an investment of 2 million baht and submit accounts every year just like in your home country OR you need a sponser ( Bar Owner ) who will guarantee you employment and to obtain this work permit for you he needs proof of an investment of 2 million baht into his Company, the is the legal way to obtain one.

There are other ways but to break the law in a foriegn country like Thailand, well that's upto you.

Regards

Sev

:cool:</font>

The comany can have only 1 million baht in capital to get a work permit for a Farang, but the Farang must be marrid to a Thai. I have just got my WP and this is how I got round the 2 million baht hurdle.