High Season In Chiang Mai

[Donnyboy]

I'm not sure I agree.

Most Ex-pats know that the Night Bazzar is the worst priced market in Thailand...

... but alot of the stupid tourists do not. I see people buying for 4 times higher than the price I'd walk away from. How, they do it, I don't know. But they'd rather sell nothing for 3 days, than offer farang's a deal. Funny as some of them go to Sunday Market and sell the same items cheap cheap cheap.

ever been to Koh Samui? probably more expensive there imo

[Donnyboy]

It seems to me the vendors don't have much idea about tourism. They seem to think every farang gets off a plane at Chiangmai, having never been anywhere else in Thailand - heads straight for the night bazaar and therefore knows nothing about prices. They seem to forget that the average 'spending' tourist is probably doing Chiangmai after Phuket, Samui, All the shopping bargains in Bangkok and then 2 or 3 days in Chiangmai for Elephants and different culture. Most farangs know what price things really can be had for, but the vendors just haven't done their homework and greed means they get nothing!

most vendors start with a higher price knowingly that the customer will offer lower- thats how it works. Eventually, after a bit of negoiations an agreed price is paid. But if you would liked fixed pricing go to a store.

to say vendors know nothing of tourism is b.s. most could work out where the tourist has come from and price accordingly within seconds.

[Rinrada]

Yes been to those--not the insect one though--and agree that they are nice little provincial museums. But I think Thailand should be ambitious and build a serious world-class museum. There's an enormous amount of art and history and society to showcase here. I'm not saying that a museum is the be-all and end-all of everything, but in the context of a discussion about how to boost tourism, it's not a bad idea.

Agreed.

I think culture, arts, history, architecture and so on need highlighting in a modern, accessible, fun and informative way.

(I know, easier said than done.. )

and from a couple of years ago.......

Largest planet observatory center to be built in Chiang Mai

CHIANG MAI: -- The cabinet has given the greenlight to Chiang Mai University to construct Thailand's largest planet observatory center atop the Doi Intanon to benefit research works and those who are interested in astronomy.

Assoc. Prof. Boonraksa Sunthornthum, the Dean of the Faculty of Science, Chiang Mai University, said that the cabinet had approved the construction of the planet observatory center, where a telescope with the diameter of up to two metres would be put in place.

The construction would begin in 2006, he disclosed.

[uptheos]

It seems to me the vendors don't have much idea about tourism. They seem to think every farang gets off a plane at Chiangmai, having never been anywhere else in Thailand - heads straight for the night bazaar and therefore knows nothing about prices. They seem to forget that the average 'spending' tourist is probably doing Chiangmai after Phuket, Samui, All the shopping bargains in Bangkok and then 2 or 3 days in Chiangmai for Elephants and different culture. Most farangs know what price things really can be had for, but the vendors just haven't done their homework and greed means they get nothing!

most vendors start with a higher price knowingly that the customer will offer lower- thats how it works. Eventually, after a bit of negoiations an agreed price is paid. But if you would liked fixed pricing go to a store.

to say vendors know nothing of tourism is b.s. most could work out where the tourist has come from and price accordingly within seconds.

Thanks for the knee jerk reaction - now try reading my comment slowly. You amaze me, I wouldn't have known that's how the system works. BTW where exactly did I mention that I liked fixed pricing, you must be confusing me with someone else - that line too is bs.

[Donnyboy]

It seems to me the vendors don't have much idea about tourism. They seem to think every farang gets off a plane at Chiangmai, having never been anywhere else in Thailand - heads straight for the night bazaar and therefore knows nothing about prices. They seem to forget that the average 'spending' tourist is probably doing Chiangmai after Phuket, Samui, All the shopping bargains in Bangkok and then 2 or 3 days in Chiangmai for Elephants and different culture. Most farangs know what price things really can be had for, but the vendors just haven't done their homework and greed means they get nothing!

most vendors start with a higher price knowingly that the customer will offer lower- thats how it works. Eventually, after a bit of negoiations an agreed price is paid. But if you would liked fixed pricing go to a store.

to say vendors know nothing of tourism is b.s. most could work out where the tourist has come from and price accordingly within seconds.

Thanks for the knee jerk reaction - now try reading my comment slowly. You amaze me, I wouldn't have known that's how the system works. BTW where exactly did I mention that I liked fixed pricing, you must be confusing me with someone else - that line too is bs.

how would the vendors know about pricing in other locations? Would you expect them to tour around the rest of the tourist traps around Thailand to find out what the locals are charging for similiar priced goods? Would you expect them to believe what the tourists tell them?

your post never mentioned fixed pricing, but if you read my post slowly it says ...if you would like fixed pricing

[uptheos]

It seems to me the vendors don't have much idea about tourism. They seem to think every farang gets off a plane at Chiangmai, having never been anywhere else in Thailand - heads straight for the night bazaar and therefore knows nothing about prices. They seem to forget that the average 'spending' tourist is probably doing Chiangmai after Phuket, Samui, All the shopping bargains in Bangkok and then 2 or 3 days in Chiangmai for Elephants and different culture. Most farangs know what price things really can be had for, but the vendors just haven't done their homework and greed means they get nothing!

most vendors start with a higher price knowingly that the customer will offer lower- thats how it works. Eventually, after a bit of negoiations an agreed price is paid. But if you would liked fixed pricing go to a store.

to say vendors know nothing of tourism is b.s. most could work out where the tourist has come from and price accordingly within seconds.

Thanks for the knee jerk reaction - now try reading my comment slowly. You amaze me, I wouldn't have known that's how the system works. BTW where exactly did I mention that I liked fixed pricing, you must be confusing me with someone else - that line too is bs.

how would the vendors know about pricing in other locations? Would you expect them to tour around the rest of the tourist traps around Thailand to find out what the locals are charging for similiar priced goods? Would you expect them to believe what the tourists tell them?

your post never mentioned fixed pricing, but if you read my post slowly it says ...if you would like fixed pricing

Thanks for the correction, I have to read it slowly because you write too fast though I still don't know why you brought fixed pricing into it.

The vendors you see in the night bazaar are mostly workers on commission, so no they wouldn't do a tour of Thailand. However, the owners of the stalls, some quite wealthy would certainly know the prices around Thailand and ask for XX product to be sold at a certain minimum price.

As others have pointed out these sellers/owners are quite slick, but to you they are not slick enough to know how much things are selling elsewhere!

Also do you think everything comes from Chiangmai? There is a trade between Chiangmai and Bangkok. Crafts are cheaper in Chiangmai and fake goods, handbags etc are cheaper in Bangkok. When buying these goods do you think the vendors have no idea of what they are being purchased for?

So to answer your question Yes they would know what tourists are paying in other locations.

[tiger50]

I now live in Chiang Mai and previous to that have visited for the past 20 years.

I can describe the social scene situation here in one word: LESS.

Chiang Mai used to have a wonderful night social scene, unlike Bangkok and Phuket, it was more personal and relaxed, a party and an adventure each night. Many great hang outs and bars, multiple western style nice but inexpensive restaurants, beautiful girls working in the massage parlours, great discos, more snooker clubs, restaurants with great free entertainments (dancers, comedians, singers), the bars were fun and great atmosphere, stage shows most of it uninhibited.

These days what is left of the Chiang Mai social scene is just remnants of how it was originally. The Spotlight that used to be THE PLACE to go, now normally has 2 girls dressed very prim and proper with sad faces sitting outside and is certainly in need of a lick of paint, the sad overpriced small dirty open bars in the Loh Kroh road with lots of plain looking girls touting customers to buy them drinks, the gorgeous looking girl standing outside a massage parlour and once inside her grandmother takes over, only a choice of a very few half decent restaurants now left in the town, but expensive, the night bazaar has become overpriced and boring.

In the last 5 years there has been practically nothing new on the social scene in Chiang Mai, especially nightlife with the big girl dress code cover-up in the bars, no shows, earlier closing.

I believe that the object of the big close down of what the hierarchies call the undesirable establishments was to attract a more up market clientele, probably focusing on elderly American couples who it was hoped would spend more money such as on joining golf clubs, staying at expensive hotels, touring, dining at exclusive restaurants, buying prestige cards & investment properties and who retire to bed at 9.00pm. Of course this hasn't happened and unless something is done within the next couple of years to revitalise the social scene (which includes more facilities and fun for children, wildlife without cruelty attractions & theme parks) plus improved nightlife in Chiang Mai, this city will cease to be no longer a tourist attraction, as a guess, say, in the next 5 years.

Spot on...but may i mention its also very slow in Bangkok & Pattaya this year to.

[Ricardo]

Looking across from the Blue-Bat restaurant yesterday-evening, on top of PornPing Tower, only 20%-30% of the other hotels' bedroom-lights were on. Similarly there was no queue for the 2 lifts running - up at Doi Suthep.

OK it is a bit rough & ready, as a measure, but maybe High-Season isn't quite yet started ?

[uptheos]

Looking across from the Blue-Bat restaurant yesterday-evening, on top of PornPing Tower, only 20%-30% of the other hotels' bedroom-lights were on. Similarly there was no queue for the 2 lifts running - up at Doi Suthep.

OK it is a bit rough & ready, as a measure, but maybe High-Season isn't quite yet started ?

I think it would be a blessing if high season never started. On the last two Sundays walking street has been crowded, but pleasantly so - not shuffled along like cattle exiting from Wembley Stadium. Other places including malls, restaurants, pubs etc seem to be sufficiently full, but usually able to get a seat, which is nice.

[wolfmanjack]

It seems to me the vendors don't have much idea about tourism. They seem to think every farang gets off a plane at Chiangmai, having never been anywhere else in Thailand - heads straight for the night bazaar and therefore knows nothing about prices. They seem to forget that the average 'spending' tourist is probably doing Chiangmai after Phuket, Samui, All the shopping bargains in Bangkok and then 2 or 3 days in Chiangmai for Elephants and different culture. Most farangs know what price things really can be had for, but the vendors just haven't done their homework and greed means they get nothing!

OH How wrong you are. If you knew the prices these people pay for rent in the normal store fronts and the prices they pay to purchase the cart space you would never say they get nothing. Most of these people became rich by selling at the night bazaar. They did not start selling at the night bazaar because they were already rich.

The tourist range from people that over pay to the cheapskates that refuse to pay more than half of what the item cost the vendor. Sit and listen for one night of all of the bullshit that the vendors have to put up with from the tourists that are supposedly in the know.

I used to have a shop at the night bazaar and could not put up with the attitudes of some of these so called in the know people. As soon as i recognized these types i refused to continue to converse with them. I hated the negotiating part so I would give everyone my bottom price which was only 20% more than my wholesale price. You can't believe how many times some of these people would come back to my shop trying to knock me down to a lower price. My wife on the other hand would be able to talk people into paying 3 or 4 times my wholesale price. Pretty girls can sell items for more especially when they are a good talker too.

[Ulysses G.]

I think it would be a blessing if high season never started.

Yes, but you are dripping with money.

Us working class folks have to make a little to get through next low season.

[Johpa]

Yes been to those--not the insect one though--and agree that they are nice little provincial museums. But I think Thailand should be ambitious and build a serious world-class museum. There's an enormous amount of art and history and society to showcase here. I'm not saying that a museum is the be-all and end-all of everything, but in the context of a discussion about how to boost tourism, it's not a bad idea.

I haven't visited in many years, but the National Museum in Bangkok was a rather nice place to spend a day. They use to have free tours provided in English, and some other languages a few days a week. I remember it as being a very nice place indeed, a quality cultural institution that always seems to be under represented by the TAT.

And I am using all my willpower not to respond to the poster who felt the Spotlight represented the acme of nightlife in Chiang Mai.

[Ulysses G.]

And I am using all my willpower not to respond to the poster who felt the Spotlight represented the acme of nightlife in Chiang Mai.

I can not find this illustrious post that you speak of, but Spotlight has always been one of my favorite social spots!

[sylviex]

I think Chiang Mai should just work on being itself, but better.

Noone wants or needs another Disneyworld/theme park, and most definitely nobody needs abused/performing animals or fake Western goods.

Re Night Bazaar - think the price is not so much the issue (though I understand it can be, for travelling families etc.) as the goods -- much is just awfully crappy. I know the shops I like and just return to them.

A good market should be vibrant and fun.

[Ulysses G.]

most definitely nobody needs abused/performing animals or fake Western goods.

Speak for yourself! I want and crave the latest DVD movies and TV series.

[wolfmanjack]

I think the world has twigged that the night bazaar is mostly a rip off and giving it a purchasing wide berth.

Yeah, I believe I've done my part getting that message out. It's sad though, because there must be honest hard working vendors out there as well.

And then some of the factories / work shops have outlets there that are reasonable.. But a casual visitor would never know which those are.

First of all even the factories and work shops have to charge more at the night bazaar because of the rent. A shop at the night bazaar is 30,000 per month. I can get the same size shop at ban tawai for 6,000 per month. Of course you get more people at the night bazaar so you have the potential to sell more but that only works when you have more in stock to sell. Of course there is a lot of competition for the sales at the night bazaar so you have to take into account splitting all the customers up among the people selling as in if every one only charged 20% over the wholesale cost then all of the business would be theoretically evenly split among the sellers.

Using Peace Blondies scenario of the Ferrari jacket. If you only have one in stock and you can not get another until the next day and it is high season you know that there is a decent chance that someone will come along and buy for 300 baht profit or more then why sell for only 100 baht profit. If it is 2 pm and you know you can call the supplier up to drop off another in a few minutes then why not go ahead and make that 100 baht profit now and try to get the 300 baht profit later on that night on another jacket. In the case of these jackets there are people that bring large quantities up from bangkok and then sell them piecemeal to other vendors at the night bazaar.

that is the way i explained it to my wife. If you have plenty of stock to last through the night then don't let them leave even if you only make 10 baht profit because someone else will sell to them and get that 10 baht. If your stock is low or can not be replaced quickly then you need to get more profit. She seems to understand this pretty well and is doing pretty good over all. It is sort of weird right now though. She will go for a week of only selling 3,000 or 4,000 per night then sell 50,000 in one night.

[wolfmanjack]

I think the world has twigged that the night bazaar is mostly a rip off and giving it a purchasing wide berth.

Yeah, I believe I've done my part getting that message out. It's sad though, because there must be honest hard working vendors out there as well.

And then some of the factories / work shops have outlets there that are reasonable.. But a casual visitor would never know which those are.

First of all even the factories and work shops have to charge more at the night bazaar because of the rent. A shop at the night bazaar is 30,000 per month. I can get the same size shop at ban tawai for 6,000 per month. Of course you get more people at the night bazaar so you have the potential to sell more but that only works when you have more in stock to sell. Of course there is a lot of competition for the sales at the night bazaar so you have to take into account splitting all the customers up among the people selling as in if every one only charged 20% over the wholesale cost then all of the business would be theoretically evenly split among the sellers.

Using Peace Blondies scenario of the Ferrari jacket. If you only have one in stock and you can not get another until the next day and it is high season you know that there is a decent chance that someone will come along and buy for 300 baht profit or more then why sell for only 100 baht profit. If it is 2 pm and you know you can call the supplier up to drop off another in a few minutes then why not go ahead and make that 100 baht profit now and try to get the 300 baht profit later on that night on another jacket. In the case of these jackets there are people that bring large quantities up from bangkok and then sell them piecemeal to other vendors at the night bazaar.

that is the way i explained it to my wife. If you have plenty of stock to last through the night then don't let them leave even if you only make 10 baht profit because someone else will sell to them and get that 10 baht. If your stock is low or can not be replaced quickly then you need to get more profit. She seems to understand this pretty well and is doing pretty good over all. It is sort of weird right now though. She will go for a week of only selling 3,000 or 4,000 per night then sell 50,000 in one night.

[wolfmanjack]

I think the world has twigged that the night bazaar is mostly a rip off and giving it a purchasing wide berth.

Yeah, I believe I've done my part getting that message out. It's sad though, because there must be honest hard working vendors out there as well.

And then some of the factories / work shops have outlets there that are reasonable.. But a casual visitor would never know which those are.

First of all even the factories and work shops have to charge more at the night bazaar because of the rent. A shop at the night bazaar is 30,000 per month. I can get the same size shop at ban tawai for 6,000 per month. Of course you get more people at the night bazaar so you have the potential to sell more but that only works when you have more in stock to sell. Of course there is a lot of competition for the sales at the night bazaar so you have to take into account splitting all the customers up among the people selling as in if every one only charged 20% over the wholesale cost then all of the business would be theoretically evenly split among the sellers.

Using Peace Blondies scenario of the Ferrari jacket. If you only have one in stock and you can not get another until the next day and it is high season you know that there is a decent chance that someone will come along and buy for 300 baht profit or more then why sell for only 100 baht profit. If it is 2 pm and you know you can call the supplier up to drop off another in a few minutes then why not go ahead and make that 100 baht profit now and try to get the 300 baht profit later on that night on another jacket. In the case of these jackets there are people that bring large quantities up from bangkok and then sell them piecemeal to other vendors at the night bazaar.

that is the way i explained it to my wife. If you have plenty of stock to last through the night then don't let them leave even if you only make 10 baht profit because someone else will sell to them and get that 10 baht. If your stock is low or can not be replaced quickly then you need to get more profit. She seems to understand this pretty well and is doing pretty good over all. It is sort of weird right now though. She will go for a week of only selling 3,000 or 4,000 per night then sell 50,000 in one night.

[JimsKnight]

And I am using all my willpower not to respond to the poster who felt the Spotlight represented the acme of nightlife in Chiang Mai.

I can not find this illustrious post that you speak of, but Spotlight has always been one of my favorite social spots!

It's ok and I occasionally go there, but by no means a brilliant place I'd recommend to visitors.

It's (like all go-gos in CM) pretty lame and lacklustre and hasn't got the 'vibe' that gets people cramming the place like other go-gos have in other cities.

hel_l even the coyote dancers could show these chicks a thing or two.

A seasoned expat was telling me that they used to have stage shows for the customers. No more of that now!

But onto the high season, the expats who have businesses need the trade.

The only problem is I've been running into more and more folk leaving CM because it's changed. The new wave of tourists and some expats have radically different spending patterns that exclude most of the typical expat haunts and venues.

[Agenda]

I was at CM last week.All the guesthouses I wanted to book were full. I checked 5 or so.

[Ulysses G.]

And I am using all my willpower not to respond to the poster who felt the Spotlight represented the acme of nightlife in Chiang Mai.

I can not find this illustrious post that you speak of, but Spotlight has always been one of my favorite social spots!

It's ok and I occasionally go there, but by no means a brilliant place I'd recommend to visitors.

It's (like all go-gos in CM) pretty lame and lacklustre and hasn't got the 'vibe' that gets people cramming the place like other go-gos have in other cities.

hel_l even the coyote dancers could show these chicks a thing or two.

A seasoned expat was telling me that they used to have stage shows for the customers. No more of that now!

The police stopped the shows or I'm sure that they would still be doing them.

Over the years, the quality in Spotlight constantly goes up and down. Every once in a while it has a great crew like in Pattaya or Bangkok, but most of the time the hottest girls prefer to work on other venues or else some homeley Prince Charming comes along and "saves" the most attractive girls by making them his mia noi or wife.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[damian5000]

Why do we WANT to have more tourists come? Aren't there enough fuc_king bars / guesthouses / restauraunts / shopping malls / discotechs / markets / internet cafes / western influenced western looking shit as it is? I hate the new side walks by the way. Con fuc_king crete?

[Ulysses G.]

Why do we WANT to have more tourists come?

Some of us are not rich.

So I can pay for The Duke's and Spotlight and Zen Sushi and trips to Bangkok and Pattaya and have an enjoyable lifestyle!

[damian5000]

mmm...Pattaya...I need a vacation

[JimsKnight]

Damien I hear your cry man and it psses me off too.

But you'll always get this argument splitting into two factions; the farangs who've 'made it' or are semi-retired (like myself) who want the expat bubble to stay intact with scant tourism.

Then there are the 'hungry' farangs that have to work to make ends meet and need tourists by the bucket-load to descend on CM.

I don't like having the massive tourist hordes who belong in a spanish resort more than Thailand ruining the place. I definitely don't like the way CM has turned in general from being an adult place for expats into a near-tourist trap and I raise my glass to when there's a change back to the old days.

However with respect to the expats who rely on tourists for their income I can put up with the tourist hordes as without them there would be no bars, restaurants and go-go dancers.

Edited November 21, 2007 by JimsKnight

[Ulysses G.]

I can put up with the tourist hordes as without them there would be no bars, restaurants and go-go dancers.

Great places never stop changing, so, to me, this is the best way to look at things.

When I first came to Chiang Mai, everyone used to moan and whine about not having a McDonalds or Pizza Hut any decent foreign food, now we don't even want to eat there and have The Duke's and reasonably priced Indian and Japanese food and great bakeries like Love at First Bite and pretty much almost anything you can think of.

To me these are the good old days!

Edited November 21, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[damian5000]

I eat almost exclusively Thai with the occasional (like monthly) Big Mac meal. I like the go-go girls part though. I can deal with the bar girl scene. I much prefer these to places like Riverside. I'm not saying the way it is now is so bad...But it's not headed in the right direction that's for sure. I see it turning into Hua Hin. Stuff like how they redid the moat sidewalk in concrete...It just lost a huge amount of flavor for me and I see it headed further that way. The Thai are really only a generation into Western culture and already it's affecting them dramatically in the cities.

[KevinHunt]

I was at CM last week.All the guesthouses I wanted to book were full. I checked 5 or so.

To go back to the original post....

Loy Krathong is traditiaonally the real start of the high season, and as far as I can see the night bazaar is pretty busy, the roads are congested and hotels are pretty full. With problems in most of the last frew years - Flower Expo,Coup, Tsunami, Sars, bird flu etc then assuming nothing untoward happens this could well be a good high season for Chiang Mai.

If the high season is to be judged by how busy the girly bars on Loi Kroh are then the verdict will probably be that it wasn't a good one. If it is judged by the number of tourist arrivals and how busy the more up-market places are then it will probably be a good one. As far as I know the many new boutique hotels are doing well and many businesses are satisfied. I think the trend of more couples, and families visiting chiang Mai will continue so that will be good news for some and bad news for others.

I think some hotels and restaurants being quieter is more likely the result of there being lots more competitition rather than fewer tourists. The places catering to the new breed of tourists will probably do okay. As far as I can see tourist numbers are on the up (they must be after all the problems in the previous years) but the demographics are changing.

[likite]

I was down in the Night Bazaar last night around 7-30 - 8-00 and i could not believe how quiet it was, in fact I have never seen it that quiet before. With Loy Krathong almost upon us it was really really strange.

[tigerbeer]

we were out by the river dining last night and hardly any noise, fireworks. indeed very quiet.