Hybrid Car

[ignis]

Personally, at current prices in Thailand, I wouldn't buy a hybrid (except possibly where you want a specific car, like an Estima or an Alphard, and they only come in petrol or petrol hybrid).

Given the actual fuel economy, you're better off with a diesel car of a similar size because they can genuinely get better mileage than a hybrid (until someone comes out with a diesel hybrid), and the fuel's cheaper too.

The only place where hybrids genuinely make sense is California (where diesel isn't generally available at regular filling stations for environmental reasons), and London, where despite using more fuel than diesel of the same size, and the additional issues with the batteries, hybrids are exempt from the congestion charge. (I can understand genuine electric vehicles, or even hybrids which have been converted to be pluggable, being exempt - but just regular hybrids aren't THAT green.)

(until someone comes out with a diesel hybrid)

Earlier this year, GM unveiled the Opel Astra Diesel Hybrid.....

PSA Peugeot Citroën unveiled two featuring diesel-electric parallel hybrid powertrains, the Peugeot 307 and the Citroën C4 Hybride HDi. and will be in full production by 2009

Robert Bosch GmbH is supplying hybrid diesel-electric technology to diverse automakers and models, including the Peugeot 308

General Motors subsidiary Allison Transmission produces hybrid diesel engines used by several municipal bus services

DaimlerChrysler produced 100 Dodge Ram hybrid electric vehicle diesel pickup trucks in December 2006

List of 2007 hybrid cars

2007 Honda Accord Hybrid

2007 Honda Civic Hybrid

2007 Lexus GS 450h

2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid

2007 Saturn Aura Green Line

2007 Saturn Vue Green line

2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid

2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid

2007 Toyota Prius

[Plus]

If they drop import duties on hybrids we might consider Alphard, too. Until then I can't sleep with the thought that we'd be giving 2 million baht to the government in taxes. They don't deserve it.

There's also Lexus Rx400 that is hybrid now - I'm sure our female part of the household would approve of that one.

Prius would also be ok, I guess, but we need something bigger and better.

As time goes by we'll see cars that can be charged overnight like mobile phones, better milage, better performance, but it's already not too bad, in my opinion.

[Heng]

Thinking about replacing my aging Granvia with the Alphard Hybrid... they are selling it right next to the Prius at various SEC dealerships. That's the problem, the Prius belongs in regular Toyota dealerships at everyday prices... not as an upmarket item.

Heng,

I'm currently looking for a similar type of vehicle.

So far leaning towards the VW TDI.

What are your thoughts?

Cheers

It's a fine minivan that wasn't available in its current form when we were in the market around 8-9 years ago. I'd still give Toyota the edge though since a good number of the Granvia (and Alphard for that matter) parts are universal Toyota parts. While we still do our maintainence at SEC, you can still find regular dealerships who are willing to do regular checkup 10k km maintainence for you.

[jayjayjayjay]

I'm really not interested in hybrid technology, hydrogen fuel cell is a step in the right direction.

Altimately, I would like to put water in my tank, have that billion dollar technology yet to be created which can separate the Hydrogen and Oxygens molecules more efficiently than the energy they ulitmately can produce.

The result is I'll get from A to B, burning Hydrogen and expel nothing but water out my exhaust. When I get low on fuel I'll pull up at someones front yards and fill up from a garden hose!!

[ignis]

I'm really not interested in hybrid technology, hydrogen fuel cell is a step in the right direction.

Altimately, I would like to put water in my tank, have that billion dollar technology yet to be created which can separate the Hydrogen and Oxygens molecules more efficiently than the energy they ulitmately can produce.

The result is I'll get from A to B, burning Hydrogen and expel nothing but water out my exhaust. When I get low on fuel I'll pull up at someones front yards and fill up from a garden hose!!

There's a Shelby Cobra with a 351 engine that runs on hydrogen.

a Nissan Frontier pickup powered by fuel cells and hydrogen.

a BMW hydrogen 7 that runs on hydrogen.

a hydrogen Hummer.

Honda has had FCX fuel-cell demonstrator cars on American roads for some years now.

Honda now intends to put a third-generation FCX into production from 2008

October 21, 2007 ......... Hydrogen-powered Chevys hit the streets

[Nordlys]

I'd still give Toyota the edge though since a good number of the Granvia (and Alphard for that matter) parts are universal Toyota parts. While we still do our maintainence at SEC, you can still find regular dealerships who are willing to do regular checkup 10k km maintainence for you.

Can those grey importers properly service hybrid vehicles, or are they qualified to service hybrid vehicle at all? One of the salesman (not from SEC) told me they send service engineers to Japan to take training course at Toyota, but I find it hard to believe Toyota would give training to dealerships outside their own distribution channel. And how about the energy monitor panel language? Does that come in Japanese only or in English? I heard in Thailand they get Japanese domestic model and hence the monitor language is in Japanese only.

I'm interested in hybrids myself. But it just doesn't make economic sense if you have to pay 80% import duty + 7% VAT on almost 200% original retail value of the car just to save on gas.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Nordlys

[Heng]

I'd still give Toyota the edge though since a good number of the Granvia (and Alphard for that matter) parts are universal Toyota parts. While we still do our maintainence at SEC, you can still find regular dealerships who are willing to do regular checkup 10k km maintainence for you.

Can those grey importers properly service hybrid vehicles, or are they qualified to service hybrid vehicle at all? One of the salesman (not from SEC) told me they send service engineers to Japan to take training course at Toyota, but I find it hard to believe Toyota would give training to dealerships outside their own distribution channel. And how about the energy monitor panel language? Does that come in Japanese only or in English? I heard in Thailand they get Japanese domestic model and the monitor language is in Japanese only.

Not sure about the hybrids, but have only received flawless service from SEC (Rama IX) with our Granvia. As for whether they send guys to train abroad or not, I don't know, but I do know they could easily afford to (with the margins involved and also being a public company). They could send one abroad for a 1 month long course with every half car they sold.

For myself, I wouldn't be choosing the Alphard because it's a hybrid, but more because it's a comfortable minivan. The selection of a hybrid for me would be more on principle (but obviously I don't feel TOO strongly about it, or I would be driving 5-6 days a week at all).

Edited November 17, 2007 by Heng

[popshirt]

Before even considering it, I'd need to have an honest answer to the question:

"What is the expected fuel economy WITH THE AIR CONDITIONING running 100% of the time."

<snip>

I had a Prius for 2 + years before coming to Thailand. I lived in Palm Springs which has a hot desert climate similar to Las Vegas and Phoenix. We use air con in the car all year long. My Prius gave me 50 mpg even with the air con. Actually I got better mileage in city driving than on the highway because using the brakes transfers energy to the battery and the car engine shuts off when the car is stopped at traffic lights or in heavy traffic jams. It seems to be PERFECT for Bangkok given the present level of technology. Undoubtedly something better will come along but for now ....... I think of my Prius every time I am stuck in traffic on Rama IV surrounded by hundreds of cars idling and spewing for naught. One thing, the engine does switch on more often if air con is running when if the car is stopped.

We had two cars in our family, the Prius and a Camry. The Prius was every bit as comfortable and the hatch back allowed for transport of large items similar to that of a smaller SUV.

The price of the new Prius was under $30,000 U.S. not more as reported in a previous post. And my Prius had all the bells and whistles including a navigation system and bluetooth. I was very sorry to see it go when I moved to LOS. Before the Prius I drove a Mercedes S500. I was very happy when I got rid of that money pit and actually preferred the Prius.

[Nordlys]

For myself, I wouldn't be choosing the Alphard because it's a hybrid, but more because it's a comfortable minivan. The selection of a hybrid for me would be more on principle (but obviously I don't feel TOO strongly about it, or I would be driving 5-6 days a week at all).

If I'm not mistaken they (or the other grey importer) seem to sell non-hybrid Alphard too. I just wonder why most if not all the Japaense cars sold by grey importers are Japanese domestic model and not the export version. They're obvious from the blue low emission standard clearance sticker on the lower right hand side of the rear window issued by Jap. ministry of land and transport. I wonder if they procure their cars from Japanese dealership.