but in fact there are no written records that actually attribute this quote directly to Edmund Burke.

O.K, I was under the impression that you were referring to the statement, not the quotation per se, the statement in my view is still correct, even if the attribution is not proven.

Moss

Yeah I agree with the statement.

I was reading of that terrible story about those teachers who have just been jailed for abusing their young pupils, it occurred to me that in fact I dont think that sort of evil (for thats what child abuse truly is) lies in everyone.

In fact I think on reflection I find that notion abhorrent. Surely no person in their right mind has those sorts of desires buried away in their psyches?

Or perhaps some do. I recall reading that violent offenders often tested positive for serotonin deficiency. So could it be that evil truly is real? A sickness of sorts, perhaps brought on by some form of chemical imbalance in the brain?

Yeah I agree with the statement.

I was reading of that terrible story about those teachers who have just been jailed for abusing their young pupils, it occurred to me that in fact I dont think that sort of evil (for thats what child abuse truly is) lies in everyone.

In fact I think on reflection I find that notion abhorrent. Surely no person in their right mind has those sorts of desires buried away in their psyches?

Or perhaps some do. I recall reading that violent offenders often tested positive for serotonin deficiency. So could it be that evil truly is real? A sickness of sorts, perhaps brought on by some form of chemical imbalance in the brain?

I remember hearing a story about a man, early 20th century I believe, that was wounded in the head. Before the injury he was this nice great guy, however after he turned violent and committed crimes. Strange what the brain does, eh?

Back to the OP...and the definition of "evil". As someone else said before, I also cannot see anything evil in prostution, as long as it is done on the free will of the service provider.

I see "evil" rather as something that harms third parties, so anything from petty theft to mass murdering.

Evil is a concept nothing more. It is not a black fog coming from a swamp, or a grotesque creature seen around death being one of the causes. One man's eveil is another man's culture. Take female circumcision, evil in my mind, not so in others. Sets of rules that like minded people live by are called laws, or sometimes religions if no set of laws exisit. The trick is identifying what your people are prepared to live with in their code, then label unacceptable behaviour in which ever term you decide upon to descibe that awful behaviour, "evil" being a good a term as any.

Hence, I suppose I do not believe in evil. It is just behaviour the people I would hope to live with, would find abhorrent.

There is such a thing as natural law. There are some things that are inherently wrong, perhaps evil. Incest is rampant across Thailand for instance. It is in violation of natural law and IMO that, together with the abuse of power that allows it, is evil. If it were custom, I'd say it was an evil custom.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

(Blaise Pascal)

Suely it is just part of the balance of order in life.

Good and evil, yin and yang, matter and anti-matter.

Odd that a Buddhist should contemplate the removal (destruction) of evil (suffering). AFAIK the Buddha's teaching were that all of life is suffering and it's how we deal with the individual pains that is important.

Who should be the one that defines evil? Predujice is evil and a person's predujices would invariably lead them to define evils according to their own code.

Surely though there must be a line somewhere, regardless of cultural differences? For example Cruelty is a manifestation of evil isn't it?

Back to the OP...and the definition of "evil". As someone else said before, I also cannot see anything evil in prostution, as long as it is done on the free will of the service provider.

I see "evil" rather as something that harms third parties, so anything from petty theft to mass murdering.

I concur. I honestly can't see why so many people have this hang up about prostitution. As someone else said it's the oldest profession going and it will still be going long after sliced bread is no longer available

Back to the OP...and the definition of "evil". As someone else said before, I also cannot see anything evil in prostution, as long as it is done on the free will of the service provider.

I see "evil" rather as something that harms third parties, so anything from petty theft to mass murdering.

I concur. I honestly can't see why so many people have this hang up about prostitution. As someone else said it's the oldest profession going and it will still be going long after sliced bread is no longer available

and even though most of them are bad and evil, mine is totally different...

Evil is a concept nothing more. It is not a black fog coming from a swamp, or a grotesque creature seen around death being one of the causes. One man's eveil is another man's culture. Take female circumcision, evil in my mind, not so in others. Sets of rules that like minded people live by are called laws, or sometimes religions if no set of laws exisit. The trick is identifying what your people are prepared to live with in their code, then label unacceptable behaviour in which ever term you decide upon to descibe that awful behaviour, "evil" being a good a term as any.

Hence, I suppose I do not believe in evil. It is just behaviour the people I would hope to live with, would find abhorrent.

Yes, I think along these lines as well. I just think that if suffering and pain is involved then cultural or not something might be wrong.

There is such a thing as natural law. There are some things that are inherently wrong, perhaps evil. Incest is rampant across Thailand for instance. It is in violation of natural law and IMO that, together with the abuse of power that allows it, is evil. If it were custom, I'd say it was an evil custom.

Incest is rampant? Really? Fill me in here, man.

Its news to me as well, sure it must go on but to suggest its rampant suggests that Thailand is a very dark and evil place, not something I've ever felt or sensed in living here.

Its news to me as well, sure it must go on but to suggest its rampant suggests that Thailand is a very dark and evil place, not something I've ever felt or sensed in living here.

I wonder if that is why wife likes to call me daddy during sex?

Okay, that was bad, sorry.

In one view, evil is basically the product of ignorance- very few people actually believe that what they are doing volitionally counts as "evil." In that sense, teaching and learning should reduce the amount of evil in the world.

I think most people would say that serial killers are evil and definitely need to be identified and isolated in the interests of public safety, below is an interesting excerpt I found at article click via google which although has some glaring spelling mistakes has some interesting information on the traits and characteristics of this evil subset of society.

Serial killers grow up into people who kill other human beings as a source of pleasure. The reason for this is not completely understood, but is believed to be caused by neurological damage and psychological defects that lower reaction to emotional stimuli. Therefore, for a killer to be able to feel pain, joy, happiness, or other emotions, they must commits horrendous acts of violence that would be unthinkable to a healthy individual.

As children, the top most common behavioral characteristics shared amongst all serial killers include extensive day dreaming, compulsive masturbation, chronic lying, isolation, bed wetting over the age of twelve, rebelliousness, destroying property, nightmares, setting fires, stealing and cruelty towards other children. It is important to note that not all children who experience these things will turn into serial killers, it is only that the serial killers which criminologists have studied, have found these similar characteristics to be true. Almost all serial killers were sexually and physically abused as children and about half have of them had their fathers abandon their family before the age of twelve. It the other half of these cases where the father didn't leave, he was always controlling and abusive. Many serial killers tend to become highly interested in fetishism and sadomasochistic pornography at an early age. When serial killers are still at a young age and they are too small to inflict pain upon other humans, they get joy out of torturing insects or small animals.

It has been proven that most organized serial killers are white males between the ages of 25 and 30 years old, of average or above intelligence and are usually married with children. Despite their high intelligence levels they tend to do poorly in school and might have a hard time holding down a job.

As children, the top most common behavioral characteristics shared amongst all serial killers include extensive day dreaming, compulsive masturbation, chronic lying, isolation, bed wetting over the age of twelve, rebelliousness, destroying property, nightmares, setting fires, stealing and cruelty towards other children.

1 out of 10 of those, doesn't make me a bad person does it

There is such a thing as natural law. There are some things that are inherently wrong, perhaps evil. Incest is rampant across Thailand for instance. It is in violation of natural law and IMO that, together with the abuse of power that allows it, is evil. If it were custom, I'd say it was an evil custom.

Incest is rampant? Really? Fill me in here, man.

Maybe rampant wasn't the correct word. I think I'd say it seems to exist to a greater extent than any society I've ever heard about. Almost every nonfiction account I've ever read about family life here and amongst hilltribes makes major mention of it. The Queen intervened to help pass legislation against strong opposition to allow abortion in cases of incest as it was deemed common enough to harm society.I'm sure if you were to survey prostitutes here in the Kingdom, which are really really numerous, you'd here many a tale of sexual molestation and incest from their youth. I don't know any prostitutes and never talk to anyone about these types of things and I still here anecdotal stories.

To add to the conjecture that evil is just a concept of behaviour amongs humans, take spiders. Now I never kill them if I can help it, they play an important part in the eco-system and are fantastic at the old green management thing, a sort of six legged Richard Attenborough. However a number of them either eat their young, or take a fair nibble off their spouces. Are they evil?.....I think not, however, if Richard ate his kids or chewed the leg off Mrs A, we would probably think he may well be.

I don't think any sane, rational human being would try and argue that serial killers, child molesters, rapists etc are not evil but is the cause of their evil traits also evil? From the report half the fathers of serial killers abandoned the family unit before the child was twelve, the other half abused their children. Does this make the fathers evil? Certainly in the case of the abusers I think we can answer yes, but what of the other half? It most often takes two to break down a marraige.

On another tack, it is often reported that murderers, serial or not, are driven to their acts by exposure to violent movies. So does that make the producers and directors evil? I have watched quite a few violent films but have never felt the urge to go out and kill anybody, well not often. And what about killers who hear the voice of god in their heads telling them to rid the world of <insert category>? Does that make religion evil? I know that is an extreme view and clearly not the case but how far do we take the concept of evil.

Of course a lot of these claims of voices in the head and copying the movies are only spurious defence arguements but how do we differentiate? Is suspicion of evil enough to pass judgement and, if so, who is the judge and jury?

Away at the other end of the scale people, mostly religious zealots, go on about the evils of drink (alcohol). That an excess of alcohol, particularly long term abuse, often leads to evil acts is well known but does that make the substance itself evil? Consumption of alcohol in moderation is not harmful and may even, if you believe some of the reports, be beneficial. Even consumption to excess in may people may lead to stupidity but not necessarily evil. If getting drunk is a sign of an evil person a large proportion of us will be meeting up in the eternal fires of hel_l. See you there.

From a Buddhist perspective, what Judeo-Christian and Islamic cultures call "evil" is caused by the ego. Because humans have an ego, we want more of everything for ourself - more power, money, sex, control, comfort, etc. Everything is a result of cause and effect. If someone has high intelligence, aggresssive genetic programming and an abused childhood, for example, he may well become a serial killer/rapist.

"Fighting evil," then, is finding ways to ensure kids are brought up right and encouraging people to be less selfish. Whenever I read books about life upcountry in Thailand 50 to 100 years ago, I'm struck by how unselfish village people were and how they shared everything. Consumerism ruined all that.

From a Buddhist perspective, what Judeo-Christian and Islamic cultures call "evil" is caused by the ego. Because humans have an ego, we want more of everything for ourself - more power, money, sex, control, comfort, etc. Everything is a result of cause and effect. If someone has high intelligence, aggresssive genetic programming and an abused childhood, for example, he may well become a serial killer/rapist.

"Fighting evil," then, is finding ways to ensure kids are brought up right and encouraging people to be less selfish. Whenever I read books about life upcountry in Thailand 50 to 100 years ago, I'm struck by how unselfish village people were and how they shared everything. Consumerism ruined all that.

Not quite correct on the 'ego' definition. Christians would call this as 'human nature' styled as 'the flesh' in the AV version of the bible. And 'the flesh is at enmity with God!'

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can understand it?"

Jer 17.9

Not quite correct on the 'ego' definition. Christians would call this as 'human nature' styled as 'the flesh' in the AV version of the bible. And 'the flesh is at enmity with God!'

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can understand it?"

Jer 17.9

So, if I am understanding this correctly, we are all inherently wicked (evil) in the eyes of God? So God is the only good being in creation. Sounds a little egocentric to me.

PS what is the AV version of the bible?

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can understand it?"

Jer 17.9

Buddhists can understand it. Since "wickedness" is all ego-driven, there is no mystery about it.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, we are all inherently wicked (evil) in the eyes of God? So God is the only good being in creation. Sounds a little egocentric to me.

...and since the idea of a god is created by humans, can I conclude that god is equally evil?

Not quite correct on the 'ego' definition. Christians would call this as 'human nature' styled as 'the flesh' in the AV version of the bible. And 'the flesh is at enmity with God!'

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can understand it?"

Jer 17.9

So, if I am understanding this correctly, we are all inherently wicked (evil) in the eyes of God? So God is the only good being in creation. Sounds a little egocentric to me.

PS what is the AV version of the bible?

Yes Phil, to keep it simple, God is the only one who's good.

Sorry, AV = Authorised Version, ie King James version of 1611.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can understand it?"

Jer 17.9

Buddhists can understand it. Since "wickedness" is all ego-driven, there is no mystery about it.

Well, considering the previous words state that the heart is decitful above all things it's obvious that we can understand it! The 'who can understand it' or 'who can know it' (in the AV) is telling us that we can't understand the fullness of the wickedness. That's why we are often shocked by the extent of evil in the world

Can you be described as "Evil" if you have done wron's but been proven clinically insane?

How can you fight evil and win, without being evil yourself?

How can you fight evil and win, without being evil yourself?

Good philosophical question there Jeff. However, Romans 12.21 "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."