New Entrance Fees For National Parks

[ngieen]

with a fluent thai and a thai social security card i always managed to get the thai prices even in the stirckest admissions. tell them that you live here and pay taxes here so there is no reason to overcharge...logic and a smile works

[DoctorD]

Recently my husband and I got Thai drivers licenses, on the advice

of friends who told us that this could help you to avoid the foreigner's

fees at the parks. Since then we have talked guards at several parks,

including Erawan Park in Kanchanaburi, into letting us in for the

Thai price.

Of course, this may simply mean that the enforcement is lax. But I also

think that it reflects an attitude on the part of the guards that if

you think enough of Thailand to get a license and learn some Thai,

perhaps you deserve to be given a break.

[Ieyuhrah]

Yes, Texas can be rather independent sometimes but that is because it was an independent nation before it allowed the other states to join it. It appears in some cases we are talking mangos & ngok. At many places here it is residency or membership that determines pricing. Whether that be at the parks, museums, or other venues of relaxation & education. Resident taxes pay for the bulk of the annual 'working' budget or the memberships sustain the private institutions. The Texas park system has the equivalent of an annual membership for those who frequent the sites; discount prepayment. When I lived there, my mother would always be the one to take tourists shopping in BKK because she had the contacts and knew the language. While she would never really get the local's price she did get the next tier up rather than tier 5 that the tour busses paid. Even nearly 50 years ago the tourist guides received a % of the sales. One of the most important aspects is what her language teacher stressed. "Speak clearly, correctly (tones/raw reuah-law ling), and never ever use slang or 'coloured' language." Anyone living there more that five years should be well up to speed (with or without language school). Communication goes a long way but in the parks situation, 'Rules are rules'. If one thinks about it there is a very simple solution. Learn to read & write, go for your citizenship, and kwitcherbitchin. Then watch them really get flustered when you can legally walk in as a Thai........

[dog412]

A thorough job OP. I wish there was jouralism like that in America!

Speaking of which, imagine this happening in America. No way. But TIT.

.

Sorry ding, dual pricing occurs in many places in the USA. When I lived in Virginia, the county park was FREE for locals, visitors paid $7 dollars per car. Same in Pennsylvania. Locals pay $20 for a hunting license. Out of state $110, over 5 times the price. All PA state parks have a low price or free to residents and much higher fees for tourists. If you work for Walmart, you get a discount and first choice on sale items. No one seems upset about the fairness of these things in the USA. Different people are treated differently.

All the people complaining about dual pricing going on in Thailand should get out and see the world a bit and realize that it goes on everywhere. Considering all the other things that are very cheap and reasonable in Thailand, it seems silly to complain about this.

I see nothing wrong with Thai citizens paying a lower price than non-Thais.

'nuff said

why yes, some of this may be true. what you do not say is that out of state U.S. citizens pay the same as non U.S. citizens from foreign countries. no discrimination based on nationality. it has to do with the system of state taxation. i do not claim to know the Thai system of LOCAL tax collection, but i would think that a resident of , say Chiang Mai, probably doesn't contribute much to the LOCAL economy of , say Trang. as a add on, i would believe you were talking about STATE parks and not FEDERAL park systems. cheers.

~

[dog412]

i must apologize for my lack of talent as to my posting reply to "nuff said, my reply begins with "why yes". sorry for the confusion.

[wilko]

In related National Park news...

Park visitors to be limited from July

The number of visitors to national parks is being limited to reduce the damage to Thailand's national resources, especially in Marine National Parks, said Preecha Chansiritanon, Deputy Director-General of the National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department.

Since the increasing numbers of visitors each year and their activities in national parks has affected national resources, the department needs to set up measures to manage national resources as well for the security of tourists, Preecha said.

He said tourist activities that threatened national parks included diving and boating near coral reefs.

The department issued an order limiting the number of visitors to national parks on November 20, but it will not take effect until July next year.

The order covers:

Koh Surin and Koh Similan, two Marine National Parks in Phang Nga province;

Kaeng Krachan National Park in Petchaburi and Prachuap Khiri Khan;

Erawan National Park in Kanchanaburi;

Khao Yai National Park in Prachinburi, Sara Buri, Nakhon Nayok and Nakhon Ratchasima;

Phu Kradueng National Park in Loei; and

Doi Inthanon, Doi Suthep-Pui, Huai Nam Dang and Doi Phahompok (Mae Fang), four national parks in Chiang Mai.

Preecha said the department would also ask for cooperation from tour companies to inform guides and tourists about activities in national parks that harmed the environment.

The limit on visitors and the assistance of tourism operators in the management of national resources will lead to sustainable tourism, he added.

- The Nation

It's not so much the number of visitors, it's the gross mismanagement of them and the national parks in general - just another nape-of-the-neck reaction to problems that have been allowed to brew due to THailand's lackadaisical attitude to it's natural environment in the past - and probably in the future too.

[JetsetBkk]

In related National Park news...

Park visitors to be limited from July

The number of visitors to national parks is being limited ...

Well, this is going to be interesting!

You drive 500 km to Doi Whatsitsname, queue up behind a coach full of Japs and then get the door slammed in your face: "Sorry, full up. Come back tomorrow."

Brilliant!

[pointofview]

Never seen anything in Thailand worth the increase in price for me the "falang."

So I always make the "u-turn" my policy.

Well you obviously havent seen 'Mini Siam' in Pattaya. It is well worth the extra 300% charge just to laugh at how pathetic it is - well worth a visit!

I have visited a few attractions over the years - but now u-turn is my forever policy. Unless the british museum starts charging thais £40 to enter. I think that would represent excellent value compaired to 400 baht to see a waterfall or a so called tropical garden.

Never mind though, i am sure the new breed of quality tourists wont mind being blatently robbed because of their race!

[pointofview]

For those pondering the definition of racism, here is the definition from the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. Thailand is a party to that convention.

"In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

There is an out for this specific instance in that a State is permitted to make a distinction between citizens and non-citizens so long as it is equally applied which is may not be in this instance given what was said earlier.

"This Convention shall not apply to distinctions, exclusions, restrictions or preferences made by a State Party to this Convention between citizens and non-citizens."

This exception does not apply to private organizations or companies like resturants, hotels, airlines, etc. Further, a State is required to:

"Each State Party shall prohibit and bring to an end, by all appropriate means, including legislation as required by circumstances, racial discrimination by any persons, group or organization;"

AND:

"States Parties condemn all propaganda and all organizations which are based on ideas or theories of superiority of one race or group of persons of one colour or ethnic origin, or which attempt to justify or promote racial hatred and discrimination in any form, and undertake to adopt immediate and positive measures designed to eradicate all incitement to, or acts of, such discrimination and, to this end, with due regard to the principles embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the rights expressly set forth in article 5 of this Convention, inter alia:

(a) Shall declare an offence punishable by law all dissemination of ideas based on racial superiority or hatred, incitement to racial discrimination, as well as all acts of violence or incitement to such acts against any race or group of persons of another colour or ethnic origin, and also the provision of any assistance to racist activities, including the financing thereof;

(b ) Shall declare illegal and prohibit organizations, and also organized and all other propaganda activities, which promote and incite racial discrimination, and shall recognize participation in such organizations or activities as an offence punishable by law;

(c ) Shall not permit public authorities or public institutions, national or local, to promote or incite racial discrimination."

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/d_icerd.htm

Racism is punishable with imprisonment in the UK - taken serious to the point of extreme. However, we do welcome the worst kind of racists into elite clubs (FA) and to purchase major football clubs.

[jumnien]

Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!

[Johpa]

Sorry ding, dual pricing occurs in many places in the USA. When I lived in Virginia, the county park was FREE for locals, visitors paid $7 dollars per car. Same in Pennsylvania. Locals pay $20 for a hunting license. Out of state $110, over 5 times the price. All PA state parks have a low price or free to residents and much higher fees for tourists. If you work for Walmart, you get a discount and first choice on sale items. No one seems upset about the fairness of these things in the USA. Different people are treated differently.

All the people complaining about dual pricing going on in Thailand should get out and see the world a bit and realize that it goes on everywhere. Considering all the other things that are very cheap and reasonable in Thailand, it seems silly to complain about this.

I see nothing wrong with Thai citizens paying a lower price than non-Thais.

'nuff said

Nuffy, you miss the point here. In the above US based examples, fees are based solely on residency. You show a drivers license which demonstrates residency and you don't pay the entrance fee. Same applies to other fees, including State college tuitions. And nothing prevents one from establishing residency in a State.

In Thailand, the implementation of the dual pricing fees are based upon things such as race and nationality. Perhaps I am not as well traveled as you, but I have not typically seen dual pricing elsewhere where the implementation of that policy is based upon such standards. And comparing it to employee discounts is absolutely ridiculous.

As for the other ridiculous posting by Sunrise"

Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world! Woe is us! Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!

These are complaints of a mildly irritating yet discriminating act in a very specific location of the globe about an equally specific government policy. You might want to get some professional counseling about those choral voices you are hearing in your head.

[hammered]

Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!

good comment

[dog412]

Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!

you may be correct, to me the point is WHO is paying the bills to maintain these parks. i cannot see the income tax structure of Thailand spending a significant portion of it's revenue on it's park system anywhere near the cost they want to charge foreigners. and that is NOT fair pricing. Thailand just does not want to take care of THESE types of responsibility, WITH THEIR MONEY.

[thaiman]

Nothing is fare in life. Why would anyone expect fairness in Thailand? Thais can do whatever they want. It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.

[jumnien]

The bottom line for me is that it is far cheaper to visit a Thai national park than a US national park for my family. Visited Yosemite last week and it was nice, but I'd much rather be in Thailand. In either case, National Park entrance fees are not a major part of anyone's budget!

[MichaelShort]

I hope that the tourists stop paying all theese rediculous costs (yeea right "oh so cheap"), that would make them think about it. I agree completly with some of you and when I have the chance I will charge thaipeople 20 times as much. They think it's okay I will do the same to them. Anfortunaly it is the tourist and government people that think this is okay as I understand. Like Koh Samui people, there would be no problem to charge almost anyone there 20 times more since they all do it there to us as farangs. In other parts and in villages you pay as the natives and they don't understand why you should pay more. Sorry about my temper but all this really piss me off. Next time I visit something I will cover myself head to toe and use a shirt around my face and a hat -look like a native with bad throut...(how do you spell that ...neck.)

Edited December 2, 2007 by MichaelShort

[pointofview]

I always find it amaizing to see the protectors of all that is thai - but obviously wrong - come crawling out of their little holes. A pathetic bunch - would definately do well in UK councils. They are easily recognisable by their appearance - usually short (having short man syndrome), bald, and with bad dental hygene. However, they adopt the most ridiculous contentious view points - it is a sort of psycholical reaction to having bad teeth, or like standing on a box to give them stature. They know who they are!!

[sriracha john]

The discrimination is not on race but nationality so its natioalist, not racist.

I fear you are wrong with your assessment here. I tried to enter a park with a group of friends from Malaysia and Hong Kong. They were all charged Thai rate despite not understanding or speaking a word of Thai. The man in the booth tried to charge myself and my (half) Thai children, who have Thai citizenship, the full Farang rate.

When asked about this, the guy in charge said they regarded Asians as Thai, Farangs were Farang even when they had Thai ID. We only succeeded in getting in, all of us paying Thai admission, after a long discussion and calling his boss.

The discrimination is based on appearance, (I don't like your face,) not nationality.

It's not in the rules per say, it's in the implementation of the rules at the entrance gate level.

The employees, who are the direct representatives of the government, apply the racist pricing policy on all-too-frequent basis to the point it's discrimination on a government institutional level.

Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!

Just to repeat, see the above.

[wilko]

Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!

take Guantanamo Bay for a start....

[meemiathai]

I always find it amaizing to see the protectors of all that is thai - but obviously wrong - come crawling out of their little holes. A pathetic bunch - would definately do well in UK councils. They are easily recognisable by their appearance - usually short (having short man syndrome), bald, and with bad dental hygene. However, they adopt the most ridiculous contentious view points - it is a sort of psycholical reaction to having bad teeth, or like standing on a box to give them stature. They know who they are!!

Can we see a picture of the handsome you?

[j0hnsmith]

Khao Prataew (Khao Phra Thaeo) National Park in Phuket is not on the list as either group 1, 2 or 3 and as far as I'm aware is not part of Sirinat National Park (it has a different name after all) so that means you don't have to pay to go there? Is that correct, can anyone confirm?

I bet those who go there today are being charged to get in.

[sriracha john]

Khao Prataew (Khao Phra Thaeo) National Park in Phuket is not on the list as either group 1, 2 or 3 and as far as I'm aware is not part of Sirinat National Park (it has a different name after all) so that means you don't have to pay to go there? Is that correct, can anyone confirm?

I bet those who go there today are being charged to get in.

It may not be officially classed as a "National Park" as it's not listed at all on the official NP government website.

Although I see it described as such on many travel websites, perhaps its official status is that it is not. Also, I did find this:

The Khao Phra Thaeo Wildlife Sanctuary

Located in Thalang District, approximately 20 kilometers from Phuket City, the sanctuary covers an area of 13,925 rai (5,570 acres) of rich and fertile land which is home to several types of wild animals. The compound was declared a wildlife sanctuary in July 1969.

Of course, best bet would be to call them and ask their entrance fees.

btw, I noticed that the official NP website referenced to several times earlier on in this thread has since been modified to drop the information regarding entrance fees for people.... likely because it'll all be revised soon to reflect the new changes.

Edited December 3, 2007 by sriracha john

[exexpat]

For Malaysia, Taman Negara or National Parks are RM10 for non-residents, and RM4 for residents, atleast the one I visited.  Prices may vary.  Doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not, it matters if you pay taxes.  To me, this is a reasonable system.

[007]

For Malaysia, Taman Negara or National Parks are RM10 for non-residents, and RM4 for residents, atleast the one I visited. Prices may vary. Doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not, it matters if you pay taxes. To me, this is a reasonable system.

I guess most people won't argue if the difference in entrance fees is reasonable (like in the above example: just 150% or 6 ringgit), AND if it is justifiable because you are a young child, senior citizen, or a taxpayer in that country/territory. But the current Thai practice of imposing multiple fees on foreigners is just out of greed and desire to 'milk foreigners as much as possible'...

Edited December 3, 2007 by 7

[dkstoney]

If you have paid taxes in Thailand then you will have a Tax ID card. I have had mine laminated and keep it in my wallet at all times. On 4 separate occasions upon presentation of the card I was able to pay the locals' rate.

Doesn't make it fair.

[JetsetBkk]

It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.

There's always one.

Next time I visit something I will cover myself head to toe and use a shirt around my face and a hat -look like a native with bad throut...(how do you spell that ...neck.)

Hmm, I wonder if they check under a burka?

[apetley]

If you have paid taxes in Thailand then you will have a Tax ID card. I have had mine laminated and keep it in my wallet at all times. On 4 separate occasions upon presentation of the card I was able to pay the locals' rate.

Doesn't make it fair.

Maybe a little pedantic of me but this last year I have paid tax on 2 new motorbikes, a new pickup and not inconsiderable savings in Thailand.

All were unavoidable and I do not have a Tax ID card as I do not work.....but still pay tax!

Probably more tax than the average Thai I would guess.

[Briggsy]

Meadish

Excellent post. It makes very interesting reading.

Sriracha John

Printed out the announcement now. I'm armed and dangerous!

Those of you who believe you will never be charged 400 or 200 Baht.

Trust me, I speak pretty good Thai, have a non-confrontational attitude, have a tax card, driver's licence and work permit. Usually I pay the local's price. But some parks are unbending in their enforcement of the foreigner fee. It depends on what the head of the National Park has instructed the rangers to do. The heads rotate every few years so things can change. Examples of Parks that would not lower the price under any circumstances were/are Pang Sida in 2002, Khun Tan in 2004, Hat Wanagorn this year, the list goes on.

[sonnyJ]

Meadish

Excellent post. It makes very interesting reading.

Sriracha John

Printed out the announcement now. I'm armed and dangerous!

Those of you who believe you will never be charged 400 or 200 Baht.

Trust me, I speak pretty good Thai, have a non-confrontational attitude, have a tax card, driver's licence and work permit. Usually I pay the local's price. But some parks are unbending in their enforcement of the foreigner fee. It depends on what the head of the National Park has instructed the rangers to do. The heads rotate every few years so things can change. Examples of Parks that would not lower the price under any circumstances were/are Pang Sida in 2002, Khun Tan in 2004, Hat Wanagorn this year, the list goes on.

I have never payed farang price, maybe its all about student card.

Especially going with a car wit my student friends.

And my Thai is shit,

Last time me, my tgf and 2 western gals, we all got thai the price after my sluggish thai talk that i'm a student at Samet.

It all depends on the park ranger.

Sukhothai we all 3 (1 farang), drove in for free since there was nobody to stop us. Nothing new I guess.

[Ricardo]

Support democracy - Vote with your Feet !