Kayo's Window Problem

[sbk]

Copied from another post:

'allo boys and gals,

Right. Here's the deal:

In the bar I run now, I've got this horrendous ugly sh1tty eyesore of a window-wall that is 9 foot by 18 foot, approx.

I've got a chappy sitting on me right who's next terms president of the Society and he agrees we need to change this ugly behemoth that is even uglier than most of you put together.

Unbelievable as that may be.

So, what do you DIY hacks, construction pros and armchair philosophers suggest?

Regards,

Kayo.

[Naam]

So, what do you DIY hacks, construction pros and armchair philosophers suggest?

sledgehammer. as simple as that.

[Robski]

If you don't want to knock it down and rebuild it, you've got to cover it up..

Paint it all black and cover it with bamboo roll screen.

[chownah]

The glass in a window is usually not the source of the ugliness in any architectural application so clearly it is the scene seen that constitutes the ugly. Petition the local urban gov't to do some urban renewal of your neighborhood.....perhaps with some "theme" for the foot paths and streets....Spanish colonial?....Kasbah funk?....Jetson futurism?....Simpsonian Springfield?.....

So this takes care of half of the problem...namely the problem of the ugly when inside and looking out. Now....the other half of the problem....when outside looking in......I hate to break the news to you Kayo but you've got to go.

Chownah

[kayo]

no chance mate. I get more attractive every drink I serve.

Ok. Thanks SBK for opening this in the more appropriate sub-forum.

The window can absolutely go, but there may be a valid point about the architectural application.

This evening (6th dec) a punter who happens to be a photographer is going to come and take pictures of the place, so that I can post them here.

I'd then greatly appreciate any suggestions that you ladies and Gents may have.

[nidge]

horrendous ugly sh1tty eyesore

ugly behemoth that is even uglier than most of you put together.

With such a beautiful description i am positively slavering in anticipation of the pictures.

[kayo]

anticipation hereby rewarded

[kayo]

Far as I can tell, it's not supporting anything.

We don't need any view through the new plan, as behind it is a hut, and a DIY storage area, and a corridor.

Oh and the doorway directly to the left of the window leads to the loos, and there is a pool table that you can see.

Edited December 6, 2007 by kayo

[bino]

How about some stick on "mirror film" ?

It will make the room seem much bigger, and hide all of the ugly stuff outside. Cost effective too.

[LaoPo]

anticipation hereby rewarded

I think the window itself is fabulous but the owner doesn't know anything about making the place comfortable; it's an empty/boring looking place and lacks a personal taste and decoration. A decorator with taste could do wonders here....

The window itself is a brilliant opportunity for a good Trompe L'oeil painter (or mural painter) and I know that the UK has some very good ones.

Have a look here for samples:

http://images.google.nl/images?client=fire...sa=N&tab=wi

Murals:

http://images.google.nl/images?um=1&hl...G=Search+Images

Or have a look here at some work by a brilliant artist Graham Rust:

http://annechovie.blogspot.com/2007/10/art...raham-rust.html

Good Luck

PS: really, the lamp is a joke.....it's too small for such a large space and the Xmas lamps are even a bigger joke.

Come on, hire somebody with real taste and give him/her an opportunity and make the place a 'home' for Xmas.......ample time !

LaoPo

[kayo]

I agree LaoPo! Very much so.

But with regards to that main light, there's three of 'em - I never have that on at all except when it's kicking out time.

I only turned it on for the photographer.

here's a vague idea of what my lighting is more like.

Behind the bar I've got subtle lighting with a variety of red/green/blue that I can indivually adjust or mix and match according to the mood. The wall lights around the room are pretty plain, but also have dimmer switches.

In these pics it's all a bit dark. The bar was closed at the time, only the photographer and me in there.

The doors down the end open up (see next pic) and we use that area as the DJ/Dancefloor, on those nights we do those things.

Also, not in these pics, but we have chairs and tables scattered around of the same style as the bar stools.

But certainly the place as a whole needs a lot of work.

When I started there, there were no glasses, no FURNITURE!, the beer pipes were all shot to hel_l. It was a white elephant and the titanic (post iceberg) rolled into one. Slowly we're getting it back on it's feet, so I really appreciate any comments.

I'm a pretty good bartender, but interior design certainly isn't my strong point.

I did choose the new furniture though!

[chownah]

Is the bar in the same room with the window?

What kind of clientele?

What activities do you want people to be doing in the room with the window...or if it is just one big room, what mood do you want....quiet and subdued with polite conversation?....loudly contested pool games with lots of loud comments and boistrous back slapping?.....after football bashes?.....

Really the decor should mesh with the clientele and the activities they will be wanting to do there or that you will be wanting them to do there.

Are you thinking about removing the window and putting in a wall?...I'm asking because you have pointed out that the window is not supporting anything as far as you know and comments like that are often the prelude to removal.....is removing the window and leaving a hole an option?...probably not.....would you want an entry/exit there?....could you build something outside the window and use the window hole as access?

Chownah

Edited December 7, 2007 by chownah

[Tywais]

How about some stick on "mirror film" ?

It will make the room seem much bigger, and hide all of the ugly stuff outside. Cost effective too.

Unfortunately it will show all the ugly stuff inside. Just kidding kayo. Another possibility is a large sheet of plywood covering it then attach wood paneling that matches the furniture or counter inside. More traditional pub style I think.

[jackr]

I'd say it's your biggest architectural asset, but then again, <deleted> do I know!

Mirror black or gold the glass, paint the framework white, fit downlighters in the pelmet to counter the uplighters of the adjacent walls and then mount some huge drapes over a silky, cream/white translucent netting. Could also fit some padded seating along the base of it and nudge the pool table over a tad if dimensions allow

[Beardog]

The way it is now it has that Reno Nevada Old casino look that it has been there for the last 70+ years.

It would be a good idea if the window isn't needed to turn the wall solid cement or sheetrock. Maybe put in some glass wall tiles (if you want some obscure light to fill in the bar.) you can also get lit cubes with a theme to cheer it up. A mural of some sort might liven it up a bit.

Good luck- best decided like Chownaw suggested to figure out what mood you want & go for it from there.

Beardog

[LaoPo]

I agree LaoPo! Very much so.

But with regards to that main light, there's three of 'em - I never have that on at all except when it's kicking out time.

I only turned it on for the photographer.

here's a vague idea of what my lighting is more like.

Behind the bar I've got subtle lighting with a variety of red/green/blue that I can indivually adjust or mix and match according to the mood. The wall lights around the room are pretty plain, but also have dimmer switches.

In these pics it's all a bit dark. The bar was closed at the time, only the photographer and me in there.

The doors down the end open up (see next pic) and we use that area as the DJ/Dancefloor, on those nights we do those things.

Also, not in these pics, but we have chairs and tables scattered around of the same style as the bar stools.

But certainly the place as a whole needs a lot of work.

When I started there, there were no glasses, no FURNITURE!, the beer pipes were all shot to hel_l. It was a white elephant and the titanic (post iceberg) rolled into one. Slowly we're getting it back on it's feet, so I really appreciate any comments.

I'm a pretty good bartender, but interior design certainly isn't my strong point.

I did choose the new furniture though!

Thanks Kayo; it's too short time before Christmas to do a complete 'upgrade' now.

But for Christmas I would do something drastic.

Buy, next to the one Xmas tree you already have, TWO more and hang all three of them UPSIDE DOWN from the ceiling, full of one-colored lights*** (not multi color lamps !).

So, the 3 trees would be next to each other in front of the big window; not standing but hanging from the ceiling, upside down* !

With dimmers you can adjust the light if necessary. No 'flickering' lights.

Put LOTS and LOTS of -real- candles all over the place; on the bar, on the tables etc. and make some more Xmas atmosphere; make sure you use candles to be all in the same color, like off-white or Red. If you can get hold of them, use big (fat) candles.**

The candles PLUS the three Xmas trees will have an ultimate shock effect for your customers...they'll love it !

Keep it simple but with 'bravour' effect and people will love it and talk about it and bring more customers.

* make sure the trees hang down with their 'feet' just on top of the window part -they should not hang higher-

** http://images.google.nl/images?q=candles&a...3Anl%3Aofficial

*** http://images.google.nl/images?um=1&hl...G=Search+Images

Cheers, and.......................HURRY !

LaoPo

Edited December 7, 2007 by LaoPo

[chownah]

You could put a giant wheel of fortune in front of the window to be used by the customers to determine how much to tip......perhaps also with a kiss the bartender slot.....

.........with it being controlled from behind the bar of course.

[Chang_paarp]

Paint it into a chess board, hang the pieces in the squares and see who plays.

Start the ball rolling by making the first move. P K4

[nickynomates]

Where is this bar.

The window actualy looks to me to be the best feature.

Is that a radiator under the left hand side of the window.

And as for the light fittings you could start a whole new thread on those alone.

Up lighting or down lighting or just turn all the lighting off may be better.

[nickynomates]

anticipation hereby rewarded

I think the window itself is fabulous but the owner doesn't know anything about making the place comfortable; it's an empty/boring looking place and lacks a personal taste and decoration. A decorator with taste could do wonders here....

The window itself is a brilliant opportunity for a good Trompe L'oeil painter (or mural painter) and I know that the UK has some very good ones.

Have a look here for samples:

http://images.google.nl/images?client=fire...sa=N&tab=wi

Murals:

http://images.google.nl/images?um=1&hl...G=Search+Images

Or have a look here at some work by a brilliant artist Graham Rust:

http://annechovie.blogspot.com/2007/10/art...raham-rust.html

Good Luck

PS: really, the lamp is a joke.....it's too small for such a large space and the Xmas lamps are even a bigger joke.

Come on, hire somebody with real taste and give him/her an opportunity and make the place a 'home' for Xmas.......ample time !

LaoPo

Put some poles up loud raunchy music some good looking lap dancers and what windows !!!!!!!!!!

[kayo]

Is the bar in the same room with the window?

What kind of clientele?

What activities do you want people to be doing in the room with the window...or if it is just one big room, what mood do you want....quiet and subdued with polite conversation?....loudly contested pool games with lots of loud comments and boistrous back slapping?.....after football bashes?.....

Really the decor should mesh with the clientele and the activities they will be wanting to do there or that you will be wanting them to do there.

Are you thinking about removing the window and putting in a wall?...I'm asking because you have pointed out that the window is not supporting anything as far as you know and comments like that are often the prelude to removal.....is removing the window and leaving a hole an option?...probably not.....would you want an entry/exit there?....could you build something outside the window and use the window hole as access?

Chownah

hi chownah,

Yes the bar is in the same room as the window. From behind my bar the pool table/window is to my left, and the entrance is in front of me.

The style we're trying to get to is indeed more of a trad. Pub style, with undertones of the whisky drinking dive, but only in undertones, as the clientele is mostly somewhat posher.

It was for many years a bit of a Conservative gentleman's club.

And it sank like the aforementioned Titanic.

So we're basically turning it around, making it more popular.

We do quiz nights, hire in a DJ and have the whole set up (audio/visual) to have disco/party nights.

The Clientele is mostly Student body, but more the older kids and the Graduates. Mostly well-behaved (and I don't take any sh1t). I get a couple of adults a week also. In fact adults are starting to come back now that the place is being run by a proper pisshead. (it had been run by students in the past.)

With regards to the potential removal.. Absolutely flexible with regards to kicking out the jams on that bastard with a sledgehammer, but it's gotta be replaced by somehting, as we don't want line of sight to what is behind it.

How about some stick on "mirror film" ?

It will make the room seem much bigger, and hide all of the ugly stuff outside. Cost effective too.

Unfortunately it will show all the ugly stuff inside. Just kidding kayo. Another possibility is a large sheet of plywood covering it then attach wood paneling that matches the furniture or counter inside. More traditional pub style I think.

Re: Mirror/mirror film. The thing is, the space is massive already. I'm not sure if making it look bigger is a good idea. We may look into it as a temporary fix though. Thank you/

Tywais... I ain't that ugly am I?

Plywood and paneling... That intrigues me. Hmm.

A suggestion I heard elsewhere could well be intertwined with this. (Knock down window, then put up foot or two-foot squares of alternate wood, brick, window, lit alcoves, etc.. Like a mosaic)

The pub is the Bar of the Cambridge Debating Society. This is a 200 year old non-university related establishment that, every Thursday hosts Debates on all sorts of issues, and we often receive celebrities/politicians of some renown, etc... so the place needs to maintain a classier facade.

Although I very much like the stripper/dancer suggestions, I'm afraid that won't work.

There's been some great suggestions already. I hope that by answering your array of questions, it helps to encourage more.

I suspect decision-time will be after the New Year, as after tonight we are closing the place until after the holidays.

I'd say it's your biggest architectural asset, but then again, <deleted> do I know!

Mirror black or gold the glass, paint the framework white, fit downlighters in the pelmet to counter the uplighters of the adjacent walls and then mount some huge drapes over a silky, cream/white translucent netting. Could also fit some padded seating along the base of it and nudge the pool table over a tad if dimensions allow

This is an awesome Idea! I like it.

The way it is now it has that Reno Nevada Old casino look that it has been there for the last 70+ years.

It would be a good idea if the window isn't needed to turn the wall solid cement or sheetrock. Maybe put in some glass wall tiles (if you want some obscure light to fill in the bar.) you can also get lit cubes with a theme to cheer it up. A mural of some sort might liven it up a bit.

Good luck- best decided like Chownaw suggested to figure out what mood you want & go for it from there.

Beardog

Thanks Kayo; it's too short time before Christmas to do a complete 'upgrade' now.

But for Christmas I would do something drastic.

Buy, next to the one Xmas tree you already have, TWO more and hang all three of them UPSIDE DOWN from the ceiling, full of one-colored lights*** (not multi color lamps !).

So, the 3 trees would be next to each other in front of the big window; not standing but hanging from the ceiling, upside down* !

With dimmers you can adjust the light if necessary. No 'flickering' lights.

Put LOTS and LOTS of -real- candles all over the place; on the bar, on the tables etc. and make some more Xmas atmosphere; make sure you use candles to be all in the same color, like off-white or Red. If you can get hold of them, use big (fat) candles.**

The candles PLUS the three Xmas trees will have an ultimate shock effect for your customers...they'll love it !

Keep it simple but with 'bravour' effect and people will love it and talk about it and bring more customers.

* make sure the trees hang down with their 'feet' just on top of the window part -they should not hang higher-

** http://images.google.nl/images?q=candles&a...3Anl%3Aofficial

*** http://images.google.nl/images?um=1&hl...G=Search+Images

Cheers, and.......................HURRY !

LaoPo

Thanks LaoPo. The tree's aren't mine though, nor is that tacky dangly lights on the window. Got a function tonight, then I close until the second week of January. Candles is good though. I like candles.

You could put a giant wheel of fortune in front of the window to be used by the customers to determine how much to tip......perhaps also with a kiss the bartender slot.....

.........with it being controlled from behind the bar of course.

You, my friend, are a genius.

Thanks guys and gals.

Loads of food for thought.

Thread remains open if there are further suggestions, or for me to come back with more questions, or upgrade reports as and when.

Merry days.

[Robski]

Crikey Kayo what's all the fuss about..!?

Paint the frames and get some curtains or blinds.

Talk about a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Er, yeh I fink we need to knock it down and then er.. do sumfink else..

(pisstake over or I won't get a discount on my beer)

That's a Crittall window so I imagine the building is fairly old and you'd probably need permission to replace it.

What that window needs is a 'womanly' touch, and those lights as well while you're at it..

Edited December 7, 2007 by Robski

[bino]

How about some stick on "mirror film" ?

It will make the room seem much bigger, and hide all of the ugly stuff outside. Cost effective too.

Re: Mirror/mirror film. The thing is, the space is massive already. I'm not sure if making it look bigger is a good idea. We may look into it as a temporary fix though. Thank you/

If mirror film isn't the way to go, there are lots of other good films available. Perhaps a stained glass type or a translucent film that looks like "acid etching", and put a light or two outside to back-light it?

[kayo]

I'd say it's your biggest architectural asset, but then again, <deleted> do I know!

Mirror black or gold the glass, paint the framework white, fit downlighters in the pelmet to counter the uplighters of the adjacent walls and then mount some huge drapes over a silky, cream/white translucent netting. Could also fit some padded seating along the base of it and nudge the pool table over a tad if dimensions allow

Crikey Kayo what's all the fuss about..!?

Paint the frames and get some curtains or blinds.

Talk about a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Er, yeh I fink we need to knock it down and then er.. do sumfink else..

(pisstake over or I won't get a discount on my beer)

That's a Crittall window so I imagine the building is fairly old and you'd probably need permission to replace it.

What that window needs is a 'womanly' touch, and those lights as well while you're at it..

Update:

It took forever to get any decisions made,

but we finally got there.

Turns out the whole building is scheduled for a massive expansion/redesign in 2010. So we're not allowed to spend too much money (ie: rebuilding that darn wall (and the bar) from scratch, yet)

I have however persuaded the powers that be, that the bar can be a lot more profitable if we can at least aesthetically make the place more cosy to come and drink in.

Hence over the summer, i've got the whole place re-qired (from 19th century to 21 century wiring)

re-painted all the way round the room, and the floor sanded down and re-done.

Re: the window

I've gone with the drapes option.

we're getting really nice creamy gold coloured drapes/curtains strung up, and I'm having RGB spots wired pointing towards the drapes.

These RGB spots will have a dual function of lighting the curtains in a variety of my choice of colour(s) but also able to be used as additional lighting for club nights.

In about three weeks the place should be fully done up, so I'll get som pics done and posted.

Oh... It's been some six months or so since I posted this originally, and somebody mentioned strippers....

Edited September 4, 2008 by kayo