Shave Your Energy Bill - Up To 80% With Lights

[SamuiBond]

Tesco has obviously done a deal with Phillips and they are now selling Compact Fluorescent Spirals also known as light bulbs in Tesco box. Bought my first ones today and although price was fairly creasy 119b for 14 watt spiral, it is suppose to last 8000 hours which is 8 times longer than regular one and most likely 200 times the time that I've usually got out of regular one around Thailand. They also give the same light out as 75 W bulb although it says 14W in a box.

Has anyone done testing on electricity bill before - after? I know these fluorescent spirals don't work with dimmers but is there any other down sides?

Could you knock down your electricity bill by investing a little by chancing all the bulbs in the house?

- I love darkness - when I have light a light source-

[mattias33]

Tesco has obviously done a deal with Phillips and they are now selling Compact Fluorescent Spirals also known as light bulbs in Tesco box. Bought my first ones today and although price was fairly creasy 119b for 14 watt spiral, it is suppose to last 8000 hours which is 8 times longer than regular one and most likely 200 times the time that I've usually got out of regular one around Thailand. They also give the same light out as 75 W bulb although it says 14W in a box.

Has anyone done testing on electricity bill before - after? I know these fluorescent spirals don't work with dimmers but is there any other down sides?

Could you knock down your electricity bill by investing a little by chancing all the bulbs in the house?

- I love darkness - when I have light a light source-

Yes.

If you change all your 75 w lightbulbs to 14 w flourescent (same light) you will see a change on your bill. How big change is offcourse depending on how many lamps you have.

Like you said they dont work with dimmer but apart from that i cant beleive why anybody by regular bulbs anymore. I went the same day i moved in this house and bought flourescent lights. Changed all my 100 watt bulbs to 18 watt flourescent. Better light, longer lifetime, and cheaper electric bill.

Cant think of a downside. Its just a great invention!!! Use it!

[cm-happy]

Have mostly florescent lighting in house. However for the cans in the ceiling, wired with dimmer still use incandescent so can set a certain mood when entertaining LOL.

[londonthai]

I did install several of them on the public path leading to my home - after a few days several of them disappeared. Shows how popular they are

[jonniebkk]

The main downside to CF lights is an environmental/health one. The bulbs contain very small amounts of mercury (which incandescent lights do not). The problem comes when they are thrown away. If they are not disposed of properly (and in LOS and many other countries) they will cause mercury contamination of the landfills, dumps, and probably leach into the water tables too. Nothing in life is free as they say...great energy and cost savings but problems on the environmental back-end

Problem not so bad now but when millions of bulbs are replaced and begin to burn-out and end up in dumps there may be problems.

[mattias33]

The main downside to CF lights is an environmental/health one. The bulbs contain very small amounts of mercury (which incandescent lights do not). The problem comes when they are thrown away. If they are not disposed of properly (and in LOS and many other countries) they will cause mercury contamination of the landfills, dumps, and probably leach into the water tables too. Nothing in life is free as they say...great energy and cost savings but problems on the environmental back-end

Problem not so bad now but when millions of bulbs are replaced and begin to burn-out and end up in dumps there may be problems.

Beleive me, when there are millions of these bulbs used in Thailand, the enviromental/health gained so much already on the less usage of electric that the mercury from the burned out bulbs still makes it a winner.

I seen the powerplant in Krabi (during a repair a few years ago) and i been to powerplants all over the world but never ever have i seen so dirty air coming out of a powerplant. There is a scale that we used in powerplants that messure the amount of "dirt-particles" in the outgoing air from the powerplant (straight out in Nature). The limit for the hitachi fanblades were 15 of these particles/ certain area (dont remember if it was cm or whatever). The normal value in europe on this scale was around 10. In Krabi they messured it to 80!!

For us normal not engineering/constructing powerplants or other hightech things:

Saving eletric, cutting down personal use=Saving environment. And health. And last but not least it equals saving money!!

Do It!

[SamuiBond]

I did install several of them on the public path leading to my home - after a few days several of them disappeared. Shows how popular they are

These bulbs are fancy and more expencive looking than the regular ones but more users will mean that they will become more regular thus cheaper. Anyone wanting to make their own carbon footprint just a bit smaller could do this little effort since at the end you're the only winner in the final game.

[lopburi3]

Do not believe the bulbs sold under the house Tesco brand are made by Phillips; at least not the high wattage versions, as they are marked as imported from China by GE Lighting. The Phillips version is one watt different and the base is a smaller diameter.

[SamuiBond]

Do not believe the bulbs sold under the house Tesco brand are made by Phillips; at least not the high wattage versions, as they are marked as imported from China by GE Lighting. The Phillips version is one watt different and the base is a smaller diameter.

Take pretty much any product by Tesco and it's done by it's origin. More popular pasta sauce was taken by Heinz and then turned in to tesco whatever, happens to milk, meat, oil... anything that sells. You would ever think that Tesco would actually create these things. They buy the product, label it, change it to their purpose (Tesco is global) and put it to the market. One watt here there is cosmetic as it where it's made...

[jonniebkk]

The main downside to CF lights is an environmental/health one. The bulbs contain very small amounts of mercury (which incandescent lights do not). The problem comes when they are thrown away. If they are not disposed of properly (and in LOS and many other countries) they will cause mercury contamination of the landfills, dumps, and probably leach into the water tables too. Nothing in life is free as they say...great energy and cost savings but problems on the environmental back-end

Problem not so bad now but when millions of bulbs are replaced and begin to burn-out and end up in dumps there may be problems.

Beleive me, when there are millions of these bulbs used in Thailand, the enviromental/health gained so much already on the less usage of electric that the mercury from the burned out bulbs still makes it a winner.

I don't deny that there is a large savings in energy use (and therefore power production needs) from these bulbs. I use them myself. Just making the point that they do contain mecury, a very toxic heavy metal, and that if they are not disposed of properly (which is very much likely to be the case in Thailand) then there will be future problems with mecury contamination (but what the heck, there it's probably there already).

[daveh]

Aside from the mercury and dimming, there is one other downside. They don't work with most motion sensing light switches. My office (in the US) uses these light switches. It's great, walk in, the lights come on, leave and after a while, the lights go off. I liked it so much, I went out and bought such a switch. When I got it home, I discovered that the switch I bought didn't work with electronic ballast florescent lights (most florescent lights use electronic ballasts these days). Hunting around on the web, the only such switch I could find was more than 60 USD. Seems like a lot of money to spend in order to "save". I ended up getting a manual on/auto off switch. Guess these are easier to make.

Tesco has obviously done a deal with Phillips and they are now selling Compact Fluorescent Spirals also known as light bulbs in Tesco box. Bought my first ones today and although price was fairly creasy 119b for 14 watt spiral, it is suppose to last 8000 hours which is 8 times longer than regular one and most likely 200 times the time that I've usually got out of regular one around Thailand. They also give the same light out as 75 W bulb although it says 14W in a box.

Has anyone done testing on electricity bill before - after? I know these fluorescent spirals don't work with dimmers but is there any other down sides?

Could you knock down your electricity bill by investing a little by chancing all the bulbs in the house?

- I love darkness - when I have light a light source-

[lopburi3]

"All fluorescent tubes contain small amounts of mercury. An energy saving bulb typically contains about 4/1000 of a gram." A fluorescent tube contains about 20mg

So yes they should be disposed of properly but in compression to a well known item, the mercury thermometer, it would take about 150-200 bulbs to equal the amount of mercury.

Edit: not as obvious (unless you take the cover off) but used in most hotels is the mercury tilt switch to control the temperature "A mercury tilt switch, for example, can have anywhere from 50 milligrams to nearly 5 grams (5,000 milligrams) of mercury,

[Ping]

I use them, but bear in mind that the majority of your bill is power-sucking airconditioners (and electric heaters, where applicable) and your white goods. Add to that televisions and computers and you are unlikely to see a significant change in your electic bill (but yes, savings will obviously be obtained).

[Naam]

so if i listen to that [nearly] unisono given advice and change all my light bulbs will the compressors of my aircon units, my well pump, my irrigation pump, my house water supply pumps, my pool pump, my pond pumps, my microwave, the electric cook top, the oven, the toaster, the grill, our fridges and our four computers use less energy?

GIVE ME A BREAK GENTLEMEN, CLIMB DOWN FROM CLOUD NINE AND FACE REALITY!

[Gary A]

When we still lived in my condo we had one 40 incandescent bulb for a night light. I found a 4 watt fluorescent bulb that fit it and it gave plenty of light. Since then we have moved to a house up country and there is not a single incandescent bulb in the house or outside.

[siam-i-am]

When we still lived in my condo we had one 40 incandescent bulb for a night light. I found a 4 watt fluorescent bulb that fit it and it gave plenty of light. Since then we have moved to a house up country and there is not a single incandescent bulb in the house or outside.

Carre four? Got them on offer 80 bhat

[candoman89]

Okay people; lets do some math.

Reviewed my electric bill today and electric consumption is 2.742 Bt/KWH (kilowatt hour)

assume in one month a single light is on for 6 hrs/day and 30 days per month (yes some have 31 days and one has 28 days except every 4 years when it is 29 days but lets TRY and generalize for you puritans)

So; 6 hrs/day for 30 days/month = 180 hrs/month.

Assume you use 80 watt light bulbs so you will have 80 watts * 180 hours/month = 14,400 watt-hrs/month = 14.4 KWH/month @ 2.742 Bt/KWH=39.4848 Bt/month

Replace it with a 14 watt light bulb and the same math will apply: 14 watts * 180 hours/month = 2,520 watt-hrs/month =

2.52 KWH/month @ 2.742 Bt/KWH = 6.9098 Bt/month which equates to a savings of (39.4848-6.9098) 32.575 Bt per month.

Obviously the savings will be less if you use 60 Watt light bulbs (only 22.7038 Bt/month savings) and will also be less if you leave the lights on for less than 6 hours/day.

Compared to air conditioning you will save more by turning up the thermostat one or two degrees.

I don't actually like the temperature of the light from those spiral fluorescent bulbs (yes light color is measured by temperature so don't start on me about that.................).

And no I didn't take into account the Ft. Charge (around 0.8 Bt/KWH) because that can change (by senate approval) every 3 or 4 months (I believe it is 3 months but I may be corrected) but what that means is the savings will be a little bit higher.

[mattias33]

Okay people; lets do some math.

Reviewed my electric bill today and electric consumption is 2.742 Bt/KWH (kilowatt hour)

assume in one month a single light is on for 6 hrs/day and 30 days per month (yes some have 31 days and one has 28 days except every 4 years when it is 29 days but lets TRY and generalize for you puritans)

So; 6 hrs/day for 30 days/month = 180 hrs/month.

Assume you use 80 watt light bulbs so you will have 80 watts * 180 hours/month = 14,400 watt-hrs/month = 14.4 KWH/month @ 2.742 Bt/KWH=39.4848 Bt/month

Replace it with a 14 watt light bulb and the same math will apply: 14 watts * 180 hours/month = 2,520 watt-hrs/month =

2.52 KWH/month @ 2.742 Bt/KWH = 6.9098 Bt/month which equates to a savings of (39.4848-6.9098) 32.575 Bt per month.

Obviously the savings will be less if you use 60 Watt light bulbs (only 22.7038 Bt/month savings) and will also be less if you leave the lights on for less than 6 hours/day.

Compared to air conditioning you will save more by turning up the thermostat one or two degrees.

I don't actually like the temperature of the light from those spiral fluorescent bulbs (yes light color is measured by temperature so don't start on me about that.................).

And no I didn't take into account the Ft. Charge (around 0.8 Bt/KWH) because that can change (by senate approval) every 3 or 4 months (I believe it is 3 months but I may be corrected) but what that means is the savings will be a little bit higher.

Absolutely correct. If you have only one lamp in your entire household, and you use it only six hours/day, moneysavings in your case is not worth mentioning. However, some of us have a little more than one lamp, and use them a little bit more than you do, so lets not make a joke of the whole thread.

We might also ad to the discussion that if a indian living in a tent with no lights except fire, install electric and buy flourescent lights, he infact increased his costs for the light.

Since you already are good with maths, why dont you use your knowledge in something more important than bullshit over an important global issue!

[HS Mauberley]

Compared to air conditioning you will save more by turning up the thermostat one or two degrees.

Which is why you should both turn up your thermostat and use low-energy lighting.

[Heng]

I prefer 500 watt halogen bulbs in my 50+ Delta 500 spot lights. Supposedly for outdoor use, but they keep everything squinty bright indoors as well.

[sweetchariot]

We have 12 of these things in our house, which are supposed to last much longer than ordinary bulbs. In the 15 months since my house was built I have had to replace all of them, some twice.

Not sure if this is dodgy wiring in my house, or dodgy Thai electricity supply, but either way I have now started replacing them with ordinary bulbs, which is far more cost effective for me. Be interesting to see if the old fashioned bulbs outlive the energy saving ones, but the bulbs cost over 100 baht less, and by a previous posters calculations it would take me about 3 years to recoup that in energy savings.

Carbon footprint - codswallop. I am off to light a bonfire...

[Heng]

That sounds like an unusually short bulb life, unless you're running them 24-7. I'd suspect dodgy wiring more than the electricity supply (depending on where you live of course).

[chanchao]

I'm a bit split on this issue..

Pro:

Less electricity

Less heat

Longer lifetime..

Though, the longer lifetime only applies if you don't actively break it.. I've broken a few that were in table top type lamps, when the thing fell down. There's your saving out the door for a couple years.

Con:

Dont' work with dimmers

Light is ugly

Explensib

Advertised '11 watt equals 40 watt' doesn't really equal 40 watt, but seems a lot less bright.

So, I used them in SOME lights, the ones that I use the most, AND that are not likely to be knocked over.

Also, today I'm happy to report I found a 'warm' (yellow) glow standard round fluorescent circle light, to be used on the (in Thailand) ubiquitous round ceiling fixtures that normally emit a completely horrific hospital style white-wash light. Will give that a try too.

Oh, and the truck has Xenon headlights.. 7 years now and never had to change them. And verrrry bright.

Cheers,

chanchao

Edited December 10, 2007 by chanchao

[ignoramus]

1. Mercury VAPOUR is deadly. Break one inside your abode and you have a (largish decomtamination) problem, or rather your kids do, down the road aways (health-wise). (A little like kids living on main roads have a problem - where leaded gasoline is abundant - whereas adults do not, anywhere near to the same extent).

2. I rolled mercury (the solid - or is it a liquid?) around in my hand [the right I think it was] as a school student. This ain't no problem, me maties. It's the vapour (released when a globe is broken, or a container is dropped). Minor point: landfill-wise - I'd imagine, with actually knowing it to be so - that BURIED mercury would quite likely re-absorb into a more benign, solid form - either way, it is buried ain't it?). My friend the chemical engineer is far more concerned about certain chemicals, and radioactive substances. (Oh, re chemicals: what's under your wash basin? Think.....nasty fumes...think children...think lung ailments....think ingratitude towards parents).

3. Think Minimata, Japan (I think that's the spelling) - major problems for those poor young ladies. (q.v. the web, lads -- it happened many years ago.....but mercury is still here....tho' even more so, it seems).

4. Light bulbs use RELATIVELY little electricity, in comparison to other household items. People here in Oz leave front-door lights on all night. A 15 watt globe uses b***er all elec, but gives illumination.

5. This is a trivial point, but I don't like the light produced. It's cold, stark. Incandescent is warm (as a subtle poster noted).

To reiterate, I don't object to their use in principle, but I handle with extreme care, and when mine have gone to he*ven I'm returning to the the 'bad guys'. I don't give a darn about the zealots' carbon footprint or the global warming c r * p, but only because I haven't lost all my marbles (but only 'cause it's the sun wot warms us....init....). Exxon Valdez has all gone away ain't it....once again nature did it's job....as usual.....always has....always will.....ad infinitum.

Anyway, no offence to the earnest, the ardent, amongst us. (You are powerful, I fear you).

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

I was going to reply, but after reading the above, and Mr Naam, I will just scurry (slither?) back under my little stone and hide. How can you argue with stuff like "I already use the equivalent amount of electricity for me and the missus that could power Bangkok for a month, so why should I have to worry about bulbs and stuff?" Go figure...

Edit: Language/spelling

Edited December 10, 2007 by MeaMaximaCulpa

[candoman89]

Absolutely correct. If you have only one lamp in your entire household, and you use it only six hours/day, moneysavings in your case is not worth mentioning. However, some of us have a little more than one lamp, and use them a little bit more than you do, so lets not make a joke of the whole thread.

We might also ad to the discussion that if a indian living in a tent with no lights except fire, install electric and buy flourescent lights, he infact increased his costs for the light.

Since you already are good with maths, why dont you use your knowledge in something more important than bullshit over an important global issue!

Um, boy somebody got up on the wrong side of the planet..................

Who said I only had one light..........people (even on TV) can extrapolate that if they have 10 lights they will save 10 times the amount of money and they can decide if its worth it (BTW perhaps the title is misleading by inferring that you can shave 80% of the electric bill). Also; I stated if you use it more than 6 hours a day you would save more money. I was simply showing the math and people can decide for themselves. Note that I didn't even raise the negative effect these light bulbs have on power quality...........................

I suggest we get the government to ban sales of light bulbs to Indians living in tents (would that be just Algonquin Indians or do we also include Iroquois and Cherokee and Dogfoot or just lump them all together). Got to keep the old CO2 footprint down.

FYI I use my knowledge for energy savings for my career...............I install energy efficient equipment in factories; brings down the current, improves the PF (at the load) and reduces losses in the line and transformers.

Now; lets have some granola and herbal tea together and go find some trees to hug.

Edited December 11, 2007 by candoman89

[mattias33]

FYI I use my knowledge for energy savings for my career...............I install energy efficient equipment in factories; brings down the current, improves the PF (at the load) and reduces losses in the line and transformers.

You install energy efficient equipment in factories for a living and spend part of your freetime making fun of a thread encuraging the use of energy efficient light-bulbs?

Lets hope you dont wake up one day and forget if you are "on duty" or "off duty" since those two sides of you have so different beleivings. You might tell your partner or a close friend that when they see you installing flourescent lightbulbs in your house, hit you hard in the head before you got to work and make a factory-cheif very angry!

Saving 80 % of the electricbill that i see now op is asking NOT stating, would be possible if you do your cooking with gas and use electric only for lights. In my house i dont use much aircon and we watch tv now and then but the change off lightbulbs has cut down my bill from 1300 to 700 / month. Not alot but they also last longer and some of them are a hassle to change due to where they are placed. I have a small household. And still my savings are in the 5000 baht/year area, (depending on how long they would last, im still on my first year with them), when i lived in Sweden they normaly lasted for about 2 years, lets see what the "Thai-quality" is but so far i´ve had them almost 5 months. For a big household or a resort the saving can be alot of money. And the life-lenght of the bulb is also due to how many on/off you do. You have approx. 800 startups on these lamps, and a big resort or sporthall et. could save alot off money by changing to these flourescent bulbs and also not switch them on/off all the time though start-up is a big electric consumer.

I´ve also seen the argument around the thread that some people dont like the light from these bulbs. When they first came to the market i was the same, i thought it gace a way to "white" light. Nowadays they are in all different colours and you can get the similar light you use on regular bulbs in flourescent if you take the time to compare. I buy my bulbs in big places like homepro where they have all different models and a place to try them out and see what light they give.

Possitive or negative is up to everyone. I just cant see myself buying regular bulbs ever again. They need to be replced more often and they cost more on my bill, why would i?

[elkangorito]

Candoman,

You say;

FYI I use my knowledge for energy savings for my career...............I install energy efficient equipment in factories; brings down the current, improves the PF (at the load) and reduces losses in the line and transformers.

A person with your knowledge could be highly valued yet you have only 2 other posts regarding electrical energy savings;

Post number 1.

Incandescent bulbs are very susceptible to harmonics (both voltage and current) and there is an abundance of harmonics in multi dwelling buildings (due to the DC drive elevators) as well as generally throughout Thailand from MEA and PEA and their customers processes.

It used to be that the fluorescent bulbs also gave off harmonics (harmonics are wasted energy) and reduced the efficiency of them (bet they never told you that too!!) but they may have fixed that problem now but I am not sure.

coffee1.gif

Older fluorescent tubes never passed harmonics back into the grid. I think that you are thinking of Power Factor because the older type fluoros used inductive ballasts, which operated at a reduced power factor & were therefore less efficient. The new "electronic" ballasts actually put harmonics back into the grid...much the same as the Compact Fluorescent lights do.

If the normally hardy incandescent globe is constantly blowing, you can bet that there is a supply problem...most likely voltage.

I would just like to add to the above "old" post. "General Lighting Service" (GLS) incandescent lamps do not suffer from harmonics as they are resistive loads.

Post number 2.

"sure! and think of buying a good heater. winters in Bangkok can be very harsh. i also suggest rubber boots. it so happens quite often that the snow melts in Thailand and its no fun to walk through 20cm high slush with mokassins."

cheesy.gif cheesy.gif cheesy.gif cheesy.gif

Welcome to Thailand LOS (Land of Snow)

welcomeani.gif

Of course, there is your 3rd post in this thread.

The cost savings (using energy saving lamps) are only relevant to the type of installation. For example, if you have 150 lights & hardly any "other type" of load (a/c etc), you can save substantially by using "energy saving" lamps. On the other hand, if you have 6 air conditioning units & a multitude of other "higher" load equipment, which you frequently use, the chances are that you will not notice much savings in energy. In addition, increasing the Power Factor of your domestic load will not save you a cent.

As for me, I use 2 lamps in my single room condo & as a result, I do save a "reasonable" amount of money by using CF lamps. Even though the lamps I buy are rated for 8 000 hours, I only get about 3 000 hours out of them. This could be due to;

1] voltage/frequency variations in the supply.

2] they are made in China & they are crap.

If you really want to save money, use LED's.

[Gary A]

How do you eat an elephant? The answer is one bite at a time. The fact is that these bulbs DO save energy so I see no reason NOT to use them. To save a bunch more energy the people trying to cool the great outdoors should should use double doors on their giant stores. Walking past some of these stores you can feel huge amounts of cold air pouring out. A friend of mine has his entire house air conditioned. WHY? Yes, the open structure of his house looks nice but zoned air conditioning would save a lot of energy.

[PhilHarries]

I use them, but bear in mind that the majority of your bill is power-sucking airconditioners (and electric heaters, where applicable) and your white goods. Add to that televisions and computers and you are unlikely to see a significant change in your electic bill (but yes, savings will obviously be obtained).

The voice of sense penetrates the darkness. The amount of your electricity bill that goes on lighting is four tenths of phi alpha. Turn off (or down - preferrably off) your a/c, only have the television on when somebody is WATCHING it and switch OFF your computers when you are not using them. You'll make a much bigger impact on energy consumption than by buying a few twiddly little light bulbs. Unless, that is, your home is lit up like the Blackpool tower.