Australian Aged Pension

[Will27]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Please post a link where you have seen the word "grandfathering" in any of the proposed changes.  I know I haven't. 

 

I said in another post, "grandfathering" could cause a lot of people to retire before the date these changes take place.  Why would the government want to turn tax payers into tax recipients, over night?  Example, someone wants to retire to Thailand next year, they'll go early so their pension is not taxed.

 

Why is your opinion worth more, or less, than my opinion?

 

I've never said pensions will be taxed at non-resident rates.  I have said they may be taxed at non-resident rates.  Who knows?  It was only a heads up for retired expats, many of whom have other income than just the pension.

 

I see you are going with "The Paul Hogan Theory."  My point is, the computer data bases will simply scoop up everyone, small fry, large fry, and every fry in between, but pensions may be exempt, or may not be exempt.  Will pensions be deemed as income?  Who knows? 

 

Many pensioners have some income to supplement their pension, if not current pensioners, certainly future pensioners with some super.  What becomes of that supplementary income if or when these changes come in?

 

Why 1st April 2023?

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/1/2022 at 5:46 AM, scorecard said:

As always you try to twist. Bye.

Are you not twisting the other way? 

 

You think expat pensioners will have nothing to worry about, and that is fine, and I think these changes may have some impact, and will be designed to do so. 

 

I hope you are right and I am wrong, but Australia has nearly $1 Trillion of debt, and if expat pensioners get a free pass, there could be a rush of pensioners retiring overseas, causing more money to leave Australia's economy. 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

I hope you are right and I am wrong, but Australia has nearly $1 Trillion of debt, and if expat pensioners get a free pass, there could be a rush of pensioners retiring overseas, causing more money to leave Australia's economy. 

What absolute nonsense.

Retiring overseas requires a big move outside the comfort zone for most people, and most pensioners are set in their ways. Then there is learning a new language and understanding a new culture, a task which is far too much for many nearing 70.

There may be a few more retiring overseas, but it's never going be the rush you are postulating.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

What absolute nonsense.

Retiring overseas requires a big move outside the comfort zone for most people, and most pensioners are set in their ways. Then there is learning a new language and understanding a new culture, a task which is far too much for many nearing 70.

There may be a few more retiring overseas, but it's never going be the rush you are postulating.

COMFORT ZONE ETC.  I did my 2 years back in Syndey renting a small apartment in a War Veterans Village (I am a Vn Vet.)

 

Folks asked where I had been living (they clearly meant where living nearby).

 

I responded 'living and working In Thailand'. Quite a few times people quickly changed the subject because they had no clue whatever where Thailand was and I also changed the subject. 

 

On one occasion I got a comment 'can you take a bus from Thailand to Sydney?' 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

COMFORT ZONE ETC.  I did my 2 years back in Syndey renting a small apartment in a War Veterans Village (I am a Vn Vet.)

 

Folks asked where I had been living (they clearly meant where living nearby).

 

I responded 'living and working In Thailand'. Quite a few times people quickly changed the subject because they had no clue whatever where Thailand was and I also changed the subject. 

 

On one occasion I got a comment 'can you take a bus from Thailand to Sydney?' 

I was actually too old for the Vietnam lottery, although the song "Khe San" by Cold Chisel still resonates with me. Kudos to you for serving in a war we should not have been in.

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

What absolute nonsense.

Retiring overseas requires a big move outside the comfort zone for most people, and most pensioners are set in their ways. Then there is learning a new language and understanding a new culture, a task which is far too much for many nearing 70.

There may be a few more retiring overseas, but it's never going be the rush you are postulating.

What's your definition of a "rush?" 

 

Do you think I mean millions of pensioners?  Of course not.  As with everything, if new restrictive, costly, prohibitive laws are coming in, people submit their application, for example, before the laws come in.

 

Example, you have a 65 year old single Aussie guy who has recent retired and who has had two holidays to Thailand a year, for the last several years, except for covid.  He has always wanted to retire in Thailand, but isn't quite ready yet.  He is then informed that "grandfathering" is only on offer to those outside of Australia for 3 months or more, and receiving a pension, as of 1st July 2023.  He then leaves Australia in February 2023 in order to qualify.  Wouldn't you? 

 

Then there are the guys who are 62, 63, 64 who can survive on savings until 65, who might also jump to set up the "grandfathering" for the future.  Wouldn't you consider doing the same, especially as people are living longer, and non-resident tax rates are so high?

 

Can you see how grandfathering, in this instance, makes an incentive for people to leave Australia? 

 

Perhaps your definition of a few more is my definition of a rush. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I was actually too old for the Vietnam lottery, although the song "Khe San" by Cold Chisel still resonates with me. Kudos to you for serving in a war we should not have been in.

Talking about the lottery, read this yesterday.

 

Just goes to show how quickly Centerlink can change your status.

 

One day you are a disability pensioner, the next day you are a professional gambler.  ???? 

 

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/australian-disability-pensioner-unlucky-lotto-winner/99ffb30d-9c47-4cf4-8d5c-5a7d34d2a775

[ozfarang]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

What's your definition of a "rush?" 

 

Do you think I mean millions of pensioners?  Of course not.  As with everything, if new restrictive, costly, prohibitive laws are coming in, people submit their application, for example, before the laws come in.

 

Example, you have a 65 year old single Aussie guy who has recent retired and who has had two holidays to Thailand a year, for the last several years, except for covid.  He has always wanted to retire in Thailand, but isn't quite ready yet.  He is then informed that "grandfathering" is only on offer to those outside of Australia for 3 months or more, and receiving a pension, as of 1st July 2023.  He then leaves Australia in February 2023 in order to qualify.  Wouldn't you? 

 

Then there are the guys who are 62, 63, 64 who can survive on savings until 65, who might also jump to set up the "grandfathering" for the future.  Wouldn't you consider doing the same, especially as people are living longer, and non-resident tax rates are so high?

 

Can you see how grandfathering, in this instance, makes an incentive for people to leave Australia? 

 

Perhaps your definition of a few more is my definition of a rush. 

KH, you have to be 66 years and 6 months to qualify for the OAP at the moment and 67 after 1 July 2023.

Your argument is not correct. Go to the link below and become familiar with the age requirements for the OAP.

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/who-can-get-age-pension?context=22526

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Talking about the lottery, read this yesterday.

 

Just goes to show how quickly Centerlink can change your status.

 

One day you are a disability pensioner, the next day you are a professional gambler.  ???? 

 

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/australian-disability-pensioner-unlucky-lotto-winner/99ffb30d-9c47-4cf4-8d5c-5a7d34d2a775

Which is why I tell Centrelink nothing. If they want to know something, they will have to ask me. Your spelling of the name has me wondering if you are even Australian, center is American English.

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:00 AM, ozfarang said:

KH, you have to be 66 years and 6 months to qualify for the OAP at the moment and 67 after 1 July 2023.

Your argument is not correct. Go to the link below and become familiar with the age requirements for the OAP.

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/who-can-get-age-pension?context=22526

Did you miss the part about living off saving for a while in order to qualify for any "grandfathering?" 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:09 AM, Lacessit said:

Which is why I tell Centrelink nothing. If they want to know something, they will have to ask me.

Same here, but the data bases are starting to line up.  What one organization (Eg. bank) knows about you and your finances is now starting to talk to government departments (Eg. Centerlink, ATO, Land Titles Office etc) and vice versa. 

[ozfarang]

31 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Did you miss the part about living off saving for a while in order to qualify for any "grandfathering?" 

No I didn't, you keep mentioning 65. You can't get the pension at age 65. Don't deflect get you facts right

[KhunHeineken]

40 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

No I didn't, you keep mentioning 65. You can't get the pension at age 65. Don't deflect get you facts right

I'll spell it out for you.  Yes, 65 for many, 67 for some, probably older for those in the future.  No argument from me about this. 

 

Say, the Australian government announces the proposed changes have been passed, and will come into effect starting 1st July 2024, but, those already overseas for more than 3 or 6 months will be "grandfathered" and their tax residence status will not change under the new laws.   

 

Those that are 65 and on the pension, and always wanted to retire to Thailand, would leave Australia for Thailand in order to take advantage of any "grandfathering" that may be offered.  Why wouldn't they?

 

I think it would cause a spike in departures for those over 65, but not ready to retire, or sitting on the fence.  Those people would be crazy not to take advantage of any possible "grandfathering" hence a spike 65 year olds leaving the work force and leaving Australia.   

 

Get it?   

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[ozfarang]

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'll spell it out for you.  Yes, 65 for many, 67 for some, probably older for those in the future.  No argument from me about this. 

 

Say, the Australian government announces the proposed changes have been passed, and will come into effect starting 1st July 2024, but, those already overseas for more than 3 or 6 months will be "grandfathered" and their tax residence status will not change under the new laws.   

 

Those that are 65 and on the pension, and always wanted to retire to Thailand, would leave Australia for Thailand in order to take advantage of any "grandfathering" that may be offered.  Why wouldn't they?

 

I think it would cause a spike in departures for those over 65, but not ready to retire, or sitting on the fence.  Those people would be crazy not to take advantage of any possible "grandfathering" hence a spike 65 year olds leaving the work force and leaving Australia.   

 

Get it?   

 

 

 

A lot of speculation going on there KH

[KhunHeineken]

25 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

A lot of speculation going on there KH

Yes.  You are right.  The proposed changes are still just that, proposed.  They have not been passed yet.  Some have said they will simply wait until they fizz away, or are passed into law, to make their moves.  I like to make a plan for the fizz, or the passed, and be ready to jump straight away, when the time comes. 

[ozfarang]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes.  You are right.  The proposed changes are still just that, proposed.  They have not been passed yet.  Some have said they will simply wait until they fizz away, or are passed into law, to make their moves.  I like to make a plan for the fizz, or the passed, and be ready to jump straight away, when the time comes. 

Good luck with your planning for the future

[KhunHeineken]

17 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

Good luck with your planning for the future

Plan is already in place.  Worked it out with the accountant.  A few scenarios have been planned for.  I hope I never have to use one of them. 

 

Good Luck to all of us with these proposed changes.  

[1948wjm]

Just for the info of those considering to relocate back to Oz I have just been through this exercise after residing in Asia for the past 28 years with 20 of those in Thailand.

I am 74 and a Oz born male,I arrived back in Oz on the 20 Nov and visited Centrelink on the 22 Nov after I opened an Oz bank account. I was given a new temporary medicare card until the new plastic card arrived in the mail. On the 23 & 24 Nov I was interviewed and Oz Age Pension application was lodged with the exception of my past Tax File Number of which I needed to apply thru an Aust Post Office & this was done on the the following week. Today I received advice from Services Australia that my application for the AOAP had been approved and my 1st payment will be made this Friday backdated to the 24 November. It was all too easy and was only asked once if I intended to remain in Australia in which I replied yes.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, 1948wjm said:

Just for the info of those considering to relocate back to Oz I have just been through this exercise after residing in Asia for the past 28 years with 20 of those in Thailand.

I am 74 and a Oz born male,I arrived back in Oz on the 20 Nov and visited Centrelink on the 22 Nov after I opened an Oz bank account. I was given a new temporary medicare card until the new plastic card arrived in the mail. On the 23 & 24 Nov I was interviewed and Oz Age Pension application was lodged with the exception of my past Tax File Number of which I needed to apply thru an Aust Post Office & this was done on the the following week. Today I received advice from Services Australia that my application for the AOAP had been approved and my 1st payment will be made this Friday backdated to the 24 November. It was all too easy and was only asked once if I intended to remain in Australia in which I replied yes.

Thanks for the update. Do you intend to return to Thailand ?

I presume that would mean the 2 year wait.

[1948wjm]

No not as this stage although I did get a re-entry permit when I left .

[scorecard]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:40 AM, 1948wjm said:

No not as this stage although I did get a re-entry permit when I left .

I guess your aware the re-entry permit expires 12 months after date of issue. But of course can be renewed inside Thailand.

[scorecard]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:42 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Talking about the lottery, read this yesterday.

 

Just goes to show how quickly Centerlink can change your status.

 

One day you are a disability pensioner, the next day you are a professional gambler.  ???? 

 

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/australian-disability-pensioner-unlucky-lotto-winner/99ffb30d-9c47-4cf4-8d5c-5a7d34d2a775

A very different lottery, strange comment.

[Artisi]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:40 AM, 1948wjm said:

No not as this stage although I did get a re-entry permit when I left .

Be aware if you leave before 2 years your pension will stop and as pointed out your re entery into Thailand will expire as will your visa /extension from the date it was issued. 

Even leaving Aus for a short holiday within 2 years has complications / pension payment. 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

Be aware if you leave before 2 years your pension will stop and as pointed out your re entery into Thailand will expire as will your visa /extension from the date it was issued. 

Even leaving Aus for a short holiday within 2 years has complications / pension payment. 

 

Actually when I was in Oz I called the Centrelink Older Australian number and asked specifically about this point.

 

The answer was that you can leave Australia several times, for several weeks, during the 2 years after you have returned from a long absence and it doesn't affect the accumulation of the 2 years and pension doesn't stop unless it's quite prolonged.

 

The C'link officer did say 'I suggest that in one block period you don't stay away for more than one year, that would cause complications'.

 

You must of course have gone throught the 're-establishment of a home in Australia' reguirements.  

 

What does stop, during the 2 years, or for any pensioner going abroad, is allowances such as the Energy Supplement, Rent Assistance, maybe others.   

 

Keep in mind that departing/arriving in Australia dated are added automatically to your C'link file by the always live connection to passport records. 

 

Detail as I've shared just above has been reported by other members. 

 

I should mention I didn't 'test' the above, it was during the height of the Covid- 19 restrictions which created other/separate regulations about leaving Australia and more to the point gaining permission to enter Thailand. So I stayed put in Oz. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by scorecard

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Actually when I was there I called the Centrelink Older Australian number and asked specifically about this point.

 

The answer was that you can leave Australia several times, for several weeks, during the 2 years after you have returned from a long absence and it doesn't affect the accumulation of the 2 years and pension doesn't stop unless it's quite prolonged.

 

The C'link officer said 'I suggest that in one block period you don't stay away for more than one year, that would cause complications'.

 

You must of course gone throught the 're-establishment of a home in Australia' reguirement.  

 

What does stop, during the 2 years, or for any pensioner going abroad, is allowances such as the Energy Supplement, Rent Assistance.   

 

Keep in mind that departing/arriving in Australia dated are added automatically to your C'link file by the always live connection to passport records. 

 

Detail as I've shared just above has been reported by other members. 

 

I should mention I didn't 'test' the above, it was during the height of the Covid- 19 restrictions which created other/separate regulations about leaving Australia and more to the point gaining permission to enter Thailand. So I stayed put in Oz. 

as I said, leaving for short periods can / may cause a few problems - worth checking carefully with Centrelink prior to any trips.

[scorecard]

35 minutes ago, Artisi said:

as I said, leaving for short periods can / may cause a few problems - worth checking carefully with Centrelink prior to any trips.

When in Australia you can call Centrelink's Older Australians Line on 132 300 between 8am-5pm Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays). There's other toll free numbers you can call from Thailand. 

 

The older Australians dedicated line is always answered quite quickly, the officers in this unit are all polite and good listeners. If the officer is unsure they will politely ask you to hold while they quickly get an answer from their supervisor/expert. 

 

When in OZ I called this dedicated number several times, the officers always politely checked that they understood my question / my point and every time I got a specific and clear answer. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by scorecard

[ozfarang]

When I departed Australia during the 2 year period to be eligible for portability my OAP stopped the day I left Australia and was re-instated the day I returned without any input from me apart from informing Centrelink my travel details, which was required.

 

The time out of Australia did not affect my 2 year period for portability. This was the period 2019 to 2021

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, ozfarang said:

When I departed Australia during the 2 year period to be eligible for portability my OAP stopped the day I left Australia and was re-instated the day I returned without any input from me apart from informing Centrelink my travel details, which was required.

 

The time out of Australia did not affect my 2 year period for portability. This was the period 2019 to 2021

I finished my 2 years in Oz late Nov 2021.

 

During the 2 years I was back in Oz I didn't leave at all because of the Covid- 19 situation, and more specifically getting permission/pass to re-enter Thailand.

 

I called  the older Australians line quite a few times in that 2 years. Every time a polite pleasant and focused conversation and because I had read many different reports that being absent from Oz part of the 2 years would cause problems:

- Pension stopped and later restarted.

- The building of the 2 years would stop and re-start when I returned to Oz.

 

Every time I discussed this with the Older Australians officers I got clear specific answers.

- Pension payments (full pension) don't stop unless the absence from Australia is quite proglonged#, probably meaning many months in one block period or several incidents of very long absences. 

#The Older Aust. officers mentioned several times 'There are rules/regulations about how long you can be out of Australia during the 2 years for Australians who had been out of Australia for many years prior to return. However the full regulations are not made public, however folks in this situation can be out of Oz many times during the 2 years, and can be out for many weeks on each occasion. One Older Oz officers laughed a little then said 'Just make sure you're not out of OZ for 12 months or more in one block period, that would cause severe complications'.  

- Building of the 2 years doesn't stop and re-start, it continues smoothly without breaks.

- During any ansence from for the 2 years some allowances do stop but automatically restart when you arrive back in Australia*. Examples:

- Energy allowance

- Rent assistance.

* C'link has a 24/7 live link to immigration. Any activity re your passport number automatically goes into your C'link records. 

[ozfarang]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I finished my 2 years in Oz late Nov 2021.

 

During the 2 years I was back in Oz I didn't leave at all because of the Covid- 19 situation, and more specifically getting permission/pass to re-enter Thailand.

 

I called  the older Australians line quite a few times in that 2 years. Every time a polite pleasant and focused conversation and because I had read many different reports that being absent from Oz part of the 2 years would cause problems:

- Pension stopped and later restarted.

- The building of the 2 years would stop and re-start when I returned to Oz.

 

Every time I discussed this with the Older Australians officers I got clear specific answers.

- Pension payments (full pension) don't stop unless the absence from Australia is quite proglonged#, probably meaning many months in one block period or several incidents of very long absences. 

#The Older Aust. officers mentioned several times 'There are rules/regulations about how long you can be out of Australia during the 2 years for Australians who had been out of Australia for many years prior to return. However the full regulations are not made public, however folks in this situation can be out of Oz many times during the 2 years, and can be out for many weeks on each occasion. One Older Oz officers laughed a little then said 'Just make sure you're not out of OZ for 12 months or more in one block period, that would cause severe complications'.  

- Building of the 2 years doesn't stop and re-start, it continues smoothly without breaks.

- During any ansence from for the 2 years some allowances do stop but automatically restart when you arrive back in Australia*. Examples:

- Energy allowance

- Rent assistance.

* C'link has a 24/7 live link to immigration. Any activity re your passport number automatically goes into your C'link records. 

Sorry @scorecard, my TOTAL OAP was stopped every time I left Australia(twice during the 2 year period).

What you were told and what happened are 2 different things obviously . As you didn't leave Australia during your 2 years you don't know what would have happened if you did. 

Just before I left Australia after my 2 years I rang the general Centrelink line and asked the specific question, "what pension do i receive after 26 weeks out of Australia" and was told, "your pension payments will stop". They haven't so what is said in telephone calls is not always correct obviously

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, ozfarang said:

Sorry @scorecard, my TOTAL OAP was stopped every time I left Australia(twice during the 2 year period).

What you were told and what happened are 2 different things obviously . As you didn't leave Australia during your 2 years you don't know what would have happened if you did. 

Just before I left Australia after my 2 years I rang the general Centrelink line and asked the specific question, "what pension do i receive after 26 weeks out of Australia" and was told, "your pension payments will stop". They haven't so what is said in telephone calls is not always correct obviously

I was told the same thing by Centrelink before I moved to Thailand 13 years ago by Centrelink staff who had no idea what they were talking about.