Australian Aged Pension

[rhodie]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

Do you have any reference for that?

 

It's 10 years ago now, but I have a friend who was in the Philippines for 15 years and returned at age 63. Was on Newstart for 2 years until he got the pension at 65 and left to return to the Philippines with portability.

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, rhodie said:

 

It's 10 years ago now, but I have a friend who was in the Philippines for 15 years and returned at age 63. Was on Newstart for 2 years until he got the pension at 65 and left to return to the Philippines with portability.

Nice!

 

Whilst on Newstart, do you know if they made him report in person every fortnight to his local Centrelink office for those 2 years?

[georgegeorgia]

1 hour ago, rhodie said:

 

It's 10 years ago now, but I have a friend who was in the Philippines for 15 years and returned at age 63. Was on Newstart for 2 years until he got the pension at 65 and left to return to the Philippines with portability.

Oh please don't quote things on heresay 

You have a friend who told you ,a friend they did that this but haven't seen your "friend" in 20 years etc 

It's based on heresay 

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Nice!

 

Whilst on Newstart, do you know if they made him report in person every fortnight to his local Centrelink office for those 2 years?

I think you will find once you are over 60 the in person reporting and looking for a job etc goes out the window, but they point you towards volunteering.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

18 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I agree - the Aust system is one where you must be a resident to be able to apply for the Pension. In order to keep the Pension while living overseas temporarily or permanent (portability)  you must be a 'Resident' and approved for Portability. Which means a Citizen or a Permanent Resident. You cannot lose Citizenship, but if you are away a long time, then Permanent Residency can be withdrawn - and you would therefore lose the Pension (and it has happened and will probably happen more). 

 

There is also a 'benefit' in regards to Thailand taxation of the Pension - the Australian Pension is only paid to residents of Australia - wherever they are living - that is why Portability (of Residence) was created.  And as per the Aust-Thai DTA, taxation of a Pension paid by one State to residents of that State, can only be taxed by that State (the State that pays the Pension). There is an exemption, and that is where the person receiving the Pension from one State is a Citizen of the other State and is living in that other State and is a tax resident.  What that means is that an Aussie living in Thailand's Pension is not taxable by Thailand, but a Thai Citizen/Resident (that part means permanent Resident) living in Thailand who is receiving an Aust Pension, can be taxed by Thailand under the DTA.  Yes I know there are some saying it is taxable, and some saying it is not - but IMO the meaning and intention is clear - the Pension is not taxable.

 

 

I think this discussion has been had - I have posted a thing before - can find it if wanted - that appears to say there is nothing in the Double Tax Agreement to exclude the age pension being taxed by Thailand. 

You seem to be saying that the Age Pension is paid to residents by definition - and if you live in Thailand but are not a citizen of Thailand - you are excluded. If you can point to something that says that it might be helpful. 

 

[Nemises]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think you will find once you are over 60 the in person reporting and looking for a job etc goes out the window, but they point you towards volunteering.

Indeed volunteering is an option but they can't make you do that. Looking for a job and getting the dole is still available to you up until pension age.

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Nemises

[Lacessit]

41 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think this discussion has been had - I have posted a thing before - can find it if wanted - that appears to say there is nothing in the Double Tax Agreement to exclude the age pension being taxed by Thailand. 

You seem to be saying that the Age Pension is paid to residents by definition - and if you live in Thailand but are not a citizen of Thailand - you are excluded. If you can point to something that says that it might be helpful. 

 

The age pension can only be taxed if it is transferred to Thailand. If it is left to accumulate in a Australian bank account, there's nothing Thailand can do.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Just now, Lacessit said:

The age pension can only be taxed if it is transferred to Thailand. If it is left to accumulate in a Australian bank account, there's nothing Thailand can do.

I haven't been keeping up with it that much but isn't the point that now your world wide income would be taxed. So in theory they may not know about anything not transferred but it would be taxable as such. With all the intergovernmental information transfers it may pop up I suppose. But a lot of water to go under the bridge till it is a thing. 

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Do they speak english?

Do you? 

[georgegeorgia]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Do you? 

I certainly don't, I don't associate myself with a Country 

You sound very injudicious 

[LosLobo]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think this discussion has been had - I have posted a thing before - can find it if wanted - that appears to say there is nothing in the Double Tax Agreement to exclude the age pension being taxed by Thailand. 

You seem to be saying that the Age Pension is paid to residents by definition - and if you live in Thailand but are not a citizen of Thailand - you are excluded. If you can point to something that says that it might be helpful. 

 

I would much prefer to pay my tax liability on the age pension in Thailand, where in my case it's approximately 7%, rather than face KH's prediction of an ATO 32.5% tax rate as a non-resident for tax purposes.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I haven't been keeping up with it that much but isn't the point that now your world wide income would be taxed. So in theory they may not know about anything not transferred but it would be taxable as such. With all the intergovernmental information transfers it may pop up I suppose. But a lot of water to go under the bridge till it is a thing. 

Part of the ATO's tax structure is the fact one can opt out of submitting a tax return if one's income is below the threshold, using a non-lodgment advice form.

 

I submitted the form three years ago. I have not heard from the ATO since. I have not filed a tax return for three years.

 

I assume someone in the ATO looked at my returns for a few years prior to submitting the form, and concluded there would be no tax payable in future years.

 

I would have to be reinstated in the tax system before I could be taxed again. IMO I would be too small a fish to fry.

 

As far as Thailand goes, I have enough non-taxable pre-2024 savings to last for 5-6 years.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Part of the ATO's tax structure is the fact one can opt out of submitting a tax return if one's income is below the threshold, using a non-lodgment advice form.

 

I submitted the form three years ago. I have not heard from the ATO since. I have not filed a tax return for three years.

 

I assume someone in the ATO looked at my returns for a few years prior to submitting the form, and concluded there would be no tax payable in future years.

 

I would have to be reinstated in the tax system before I could be taxed again. IMO I would be too small a fish to fry.

 

As far as Thailand goes, I have enough non-taxable pre-2024 savings to last for 5-6 years.

As has been said most  pensioners  don't need to lodge in Australia - pension is taxable but rebates would mean nil tax. There's the residency issue but lets not go there.

The only issue is that last sentence - I think what you state is the existing system - but I think now they are saying you are taxed on world wide income regardless of whether it is taken to Thailand. As the other poster said the worst case likely is pretty low tax. The way they could catch up in a simple way is if they linked immigration and lodging tax returns but that's all likely years ahead if at all. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Fat is a type of crazy

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

As has been said most  pensioners  don't need to lodge in Australia - pension is taxable but rebates would mean nil tax. There's the residency issue but lets not go there.

The only issue is that last sentence - I think what you state is the existing system - but I think now they are saying you are taxed on world wide income regardless of whether it is taken to Thailand. As the other poster said the worst case likely is pretty low tax. The way they could catch up in a simple way is if they linked immigration and lodging tax returns but that's all likely years ahead if at all. 

If I really wanted to mess with bureaucratic heads, I could bring across just enough non - exempt funds to result in a tax bill of 5 baht.

 

As you say, getting the entire structure in place will take years.

[Will27]

Just waiting for KH to get off of his meds and see all of these new posts.

 

Looking forward to 50 plus replies that we're all wrong, Paul Hogan and non-resident tax.