Effeminate 10 Yr Old Boy

[jaideeguy]

Effeminate 10 yr old boy

I’m a little concerned about the sexual development of my 10yr old adopted [at age4] boy. Mainly in his mannerisms, that seem to be a little girlish and his ‘swishing’ walk and talk. I’ve been here long enough to observe that Thai men can be effeminate looking, but are straight and I know that thai culture is more gay tolerant than western cultures and for the record, I’m not homophobic. If he does choose the ‘other’ way, I’ll still love and support him, but know that his life will probably be a bit easier if he is not gay.

Admittedly, I am not the most attentive father because he is a moma’s boy and although he can speak English as a second language, thai is his first language and he speaks that with his mom [my thai wife] and is therefore more bonded.

There must be others that have these concerns and maybe they could share experiences. I’m a first time father, starting at 54 yrs old and now 60, so I’m still learning.

Should I be concerned ? and should [can?] I ‘redirect’ his sexuality at this point in his life? or should I just let him grow [or not] out of it? Have discussed this with my wife, who says that I should spend more time with him, but he chooses to stay under mom’s skirts. I thought about getting him involved in some martial arts like karate or judo.

Any other suggestions will be appreciated.....

[Journalist]

How about buy him a Playstation and get some combat games that you can play together.

I think that the fact that you can even detect his tendencies and care enough to set him straight makes you a good father and you shouldn't feel guilty about your attentiveness. All the best !

[quiksilva]

Thats a good idea, fishing is also an excellent way to bond.

But at the end of the day I very much doubt that these actions will influence his sexuality, I think it goes far deeper than that.

[PeaceBlondie]

This topic is running in two forums: Family & Children; and Gay in Thailand. If it doesn't confuse things too much, I don't see much harm in having the discussion in both places. The other link is http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1764428

Please try and remember which forum you're in! Thanks.

[Journalist]

You could send him to Boarding School.

Get him away from all that fussy Mummying. A good British boarding school education will do him good.

[markwhite]

Should I be concerned ? and should [can?] I ‘redirect’ his sexuality at this point in his life? or should I just let him grow [or not] out of it? Have discussed this with my wife, who says that I should spend more time with him, but he chooses to stay under mom’s skirts. I thought about getting him involved in some martial arts like karate or judo.

Any other suggestions will be appreciated.....

At the New Year Party for our soi, one of the local 7 year old boys was dressed in a skirt with makeup and his parents seemed as proud as anyone when he did his party piece song-and-dance in front of the neighbours. It seems quite accepted around the soi, even by the youngest kids, that he will be a katoey.

I'd say try to influence him in everything you do and everything you say and try to be a role model that he can be influenced by, but allow him to reject that influence and be whatever he is in whatever way. Either you will accept him for whatever he is, or he will grow up with a feeling that his father is rejecting him, and he will probably suffer a lot while he comes to terms with that.

[gennisis]

You could send him to Boarding School.

Get him away from all that fussy Mummying. A good British boarding school education will do him good.

From my knowledge of boarding schools I would think his "non masculinity" would be more than welcome.A friend of mine..thai ...has a 16 year old boy,I thought he was a girl. On enquiring with his family,no one cared,in fact seemed quite proud of him.

[Journalist]

If your boy is acting a bit camp and mincing around, you might want to quietly say, 'Look, don't do that."

And encourage him to get dirty. Doesn't matter if he comes home with trousers ripped, covered in mud and with blood on his knees.

A good guide for telling which way people lean is to say 'look at your fingernails'

If you bend your fingers and look at your nails with your palm up, you're heterosexual. If you extend your fingers and look at them with palm facing away from you, that is a gay tendency.

[orchis]

If your boy is acting a bit camp and mincing around, you might want to quietly say, 'Look, don't do that."

And encourage him to get dirty. Doesn't matter if he comes home with trousers ripped, covered in mud and with blood on his knees.

A good guide for telling which way people lean is to say 'look at your fingernails'

If you bend your fingers and look at your nails with your palm up, you're heterosexual. If you extend your fingers and look at them with palm facing away from you, that is a gay tendency.

Absolute nonsense

[Jingthing]

If your boy is acting a bit camp and mincing around, you might want to quietly say, 'Look, don't do that."

Sure, go ahead and do that.

Just be aware if the child is gay he will remember the message you gave for the rest of his life and the message is "I don't love you if you are gay." Think twice before psychologically abusing your children. That kind of abuse is much more damaging than most physical abuse. And besides, you can probably stop that behavior with psychological abuse, but it won't change the way he turns out one bit. So if your child is gay and most parents don't want that, do you still want your child to know in his heart that you will always love him, no matter what? If so, please don't abuse your possibly gay children.

[oldoldgit!!]

When I was in junior school there was a boy who was effeminate, today, sixty years later he's gay, I think its born in him, a female trapped in a males body.

[markwhite]

A good guide for telling which way people lean is to say 'look at your fingernails'

URSir Hugh MaharggsAICMUKP5

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0531320/quotes

[Journalist]

a female trapped in a males body.

Anyone who comes out with this meaningless and sweep[ing cliche, needs to be told....

"Pull yourself together."

Because it is a symptom of sloppy thinking whereby one takes refuge in cod, convenient banalities.

'I want to spend the rest of my life as a woman'...its flabby talk, a wild conjecture.

Im sorry I sound harsh, but one has to be cruel to be kind. The casual way, and the volume of young gentlemen that approach sex change operations in Thailand as if it were having one's tonsils out is disproportionate to the size of the indigenous population.

Do you still love your kids if they turn out gay. Yes of course you do. 100%.

But do you consciously want them to be gay? No, you don't. And I don't agree with the 'que sera sera' attitude, it is the duty of parents to shape and frame their child's upbringing.

[Sir Burr]

No, he won't grow out of it, it'll become more pronounced with time.

[Journalist]

^Which is why jaideeguy wants to nip it in the bud.

Being gay is not about being limp wristed, or mincing around, it is.....amazingly enough.....about fancying other chaps.

His boy can be effeminate, but if he doesn't feel sexually aroused by other chaps, he won't ever be gay.

[PeaceBlondie]

Face it, there are some children who are naturally born with 'tendencies' that agree with the gender role expectations of the culture they are raised in. Conveniently, a hetero boy with tendencies that agree with the expectations of his culture, will usually fit those expectations. But a significant percentage of boys and girls born in Thailand will not meet the expectations of Western culture for gender roles, and those kids need to understand that Thailand isn't Tennessee or Tipperary.

Agreed, it's a cliche that "I'm a female trapped in a male body" unless you have the experiences of BambinA and Beautiful Boxer.

[Sir Burr]

^Which is why jaideeguy wants to nip it in the bud.

Being gay is not about being limp wristed, or mincing around, it is.....amazingly enough.....about fancying other chaps.

His boy can be effeminate, but if he doesn't feel sexually aroused by other chaps, he won't ever be gay.

He has no say, or, influence in the matter. Nature is as nature does.

Watched my wife's nephew from the age of five. By the age of six, pretty much everyone knew he was gay. He's now sixteen and quite obviously gay.

[Journalist]

^Nature or nurture is a valid debate, but not one I can comment on.

But to say a child is gay at age 6 is a stretch.

Because as I said, being gay is not about being effeminate, playing with dollies, or having a funny voice*

Its about fancying men. And that is a barrier, because to find geezers attractive is not something that can be forced. You can be camp, but if you don't fancy blokes, you're not gay. (Nor is any of this readily evident in a six year old).

*though the way you inspect your fingernails is a guage.

[toptuan]

^Which is why jaideeguy wants to nip it in the bud.

Being gay is not about being limp wristed, or mincing around, it is.....amazingly enough.....about fancying other chaps.

His boy can be effeminate, but if he doesn't feel sexually aroused by other chaps, he won't ever be gay.

He has no say, or, influence in the matter. Nature is as nature does.

Yup, humans are totally helpless victims of their genes. Environment doesn't matter one whit. Screw the family, screw education, screw sexually traumatic experiences. Age-old debate, and far from being settled, as both sides would like to paint it.

[Journalist]

double post. delete.

[PeaceBlondie]

^Which is why jaideeguy wants to nip it in the bud.

Being gay is not about being limp wristed, or mincing around, it is.....amazingly enough.....about fancying other chaps.

His boy can be effeminate, but if he doesn't feel sexually aroused by other chaps, he won't ever be gay.

He has no say, or, influence in the matter. Nature is as nature does.

Watched my wife's nephew from the age of five. By the age of six, pretty much everyone knew he was gay. He's now sixteen and quite obviously gay.

Not to argue fine points, Sir Burr, but I thought Journalist was saying that you can't tell a five year old or ten year old boy will want to have sex with adult men just because he's imitating culturally-defined "female behaviors." I had no such behaviors, but I was gay. It took about forty years to overcome all those learned straight behaviors! I still don't have a limp wrist, as my sportbike will confirm. And, I still sing bass (off key), even if I'm singing "I Will Survive". And before we start discussing it here, cross-dressing does not mean you want to have sex with your own gender.

[Journalist]

double post....delete

[Sir Burr]

^

Very true, and I understand what you are saying, but, there aren't many effeminate straight men. Yes, there may be quite a few that look effeminate, but, not act it.

From what I have seen, those boys that act effeminate at an early age, usually end up gay.

As for the arguement that Gays are attracted to men and a young boy cannot be regarded as gay; how about the other way around?

Boys that eventually grow up to be straight don't fancy girls at that age, yet, they are straight.

[Journalist]

^ But heterosexual boys of age 5 aren't heterosexual because they prefer Batmobiles rather than dollhouses.*

* In fact liking masked men in rubber suits might be a marker to the contrary.

ps I see now on his other twin topic that the Original Poster has made a strategic decision to do nothing. So much for that flurry of parental energy and eagerness to be pro-active then. Back to the potato chips and the television remote control.

[Jingthing]

Some boys know at 5. Some at 55. Revel in our wonderful diversity. It isn't that important, gay, straight, bi, asexual. The main reason being homosexual is sometimes harder is because of discrimination and disdain from the majority. And the pain is the greatest when those negative reactions come from parents. Family is supposed to be a haven. Why not start to end this madness by not fighting what your kiddies are going to be?

[bina]

And encourage him to get dirty. Doesn't matter if he comes home with trousers ripped, covered in mud and with blood on his knees.

well,

i guess me and my daughter are both gay........bwahaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaa

really,

fingernails???!!! are u normal in the head... ,

i dont look at my fingernails either way... they are cut short for sticking up goat wazoos, and i dont bother to notice how they are...

i've met a few kids in thailand who from a very young age it was obvious that their gender id was different then their physical gender.... soooooo?!

this year my until recently fairly effeminate son is looking at girls; the past two years i had already asked him if he has a boy or girlfriend in the background (long cell phone calls etc)

really couldnt care less which sex

btw, he enrolled himself in a pre army program with both girls and boys, he loves it, gung ho and all that b/s...

oh, fishing1! oh that will make him a man........... i like fishing, my ex and most males i know hate it......

journalist, go back to your century, this is not the one u belong in, u might put me in crinolines and have me bare foot in the kitchen soon....... (my husband is actually the one that is usually barefoot in the kitchen)...

bina

to the op JUST LOVE YOUR SON. maybe help him get away from mommy with extra curricular activities just so he develops self confidence, even if it means enrolling him in ballet, at least he will develop himself and his own id away from mommy. momm'a boys are ickey regardless of sexual preference.

[torrenova]

Obviously there is a difference between a mummy's boy and a homosexual boy. However, I do not believe that it is 100% pre ordained that he will be gay but the absence of a male role model will make him more likely to be feminine and thus appear "soft" or "queer" which could push him down the katoey route. I suggest he needs a male presence and some male pursuits to see whether he can be brought round or whether he is queer.

How you devise such a timeline and leave him with exit routes knowing you still love him is the difficult part, presuming that you will still love him if he is gay ? Doing nothing cannot help as he's obviously not picking up on anything masculine is he ?

[jaideeguy]

Thanks for all your kind and well meaning support. I should have realized that this would be a controversial issue and pit the macho vs the gay attitudes. I will go with the moderate route and hope that it is just a passing phase and he will grow into a normal [whatever that is?] healthy, self confident human. What ever path he chooses to take, I’ll, of course still love him and accept his choices when he is mature enough to make them on his own.

I may have been an ‘over protective parent’ and interpreted his being a mama’s boy and feminine gestures as a ‘sign’ of going gay. In all fairness, he does play with toy cars, monsters, and has a bunch of boys in the neighborhood to ride bikes with, while his sister plays with dolls and acts like a sweet little girl.

And I think it is a Thai cultural thing for boys to appear feminine.

It was suggested that the worse thing i can do at this point is to force him into becoming a more macho boy, and i agree that if he is gay, then it would only force him into hiding...don't want that.

I also think that the jury is still out when it comes to homosexuality being genetic or parental, but do believe that we all have a mixture of both feminine and masculine hormones and can go either way. So there may be some choices.

My main concern is that I want him to be secure in his choice of sexuality and not confused about his sexuality.

With the mods permission, I will post this on the ‘other’ forum so that it will show my thanks for all the input from both sides which is why I double posted in the first place. I wanted to hear opinions from both perspectives, and I did.

[PeaceBlondie]

jaideeguy, your most recent post is being interpreted by some, that you are going to do nothing, and remain absent or uninvolved with your son. That's not what I read in your post. I suggest you keep a little list of the amount of time you spend with your son each day/week. If it doesn't total hours per week, your son won't know what a man is, what men do, how men act (however you wish to show that by example). I'll bet that he enjoys the attention and will welcome the activities.

[Journalist]

Thanks for all your kind and well meaning support. I should have realized that this would be a controversial issue and pit the macho vs the gay attitudes.

I don't think there was any such stand off. Our gay friends did not militantly declare 'let him be gay, let him be gay'. Nor did the family sub forum advocate traditional family values.

As the poster above recommends, spend time with your little man. For all those among us who spend more time on internet forums than with our tinies, there is a lesson to be learned, don't fall into that trap!