Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[aberman1970]

I think Thailand is correct in trying to remove undesirables from it's Kingdom as this tightening of its immigrations laws would appear to be focused on, and for many the easy option is to move to more ex-pat friendly countries. Can't comment on Cambodia or Vietnam but for me the Philippines is alright for a holiday, but could never live there on a permanent basis. It is still a decade or 2 behind in it's infrastructure, although the english is a plus (still strugling to string a sentence together in Thai). However Thailand should take a good look at their (Philippines) visa laws if they want to attract more lucrative long term residents, especially like me where the 50 year old retirement visa is a long way off.

The Philippines have a retirement visa where you only need to be 35 so long as you can meet their financial requirements, this gives multipule entry, no visa runs ever and renewed in the country once a year for US$10. Below is the general info copied for the PI Goverment site.

REQUIREMENTS Retirement Option and their Required Time Deposit

1. With Pension – 50 years. Old and above – the required time deposit is US$10, 000.00 plus a monthly pension of US$800.00 for a single applicant and US$1,000.00 for couple

2. Without Pension

• 35 to 49 years old – US$50, 000.00 time deposit
  
• 50 years old and above – US$20, 000.00 time deposit
  
• Former Filipino Citizens (at least 35 years old, regardless of the number of dependents – US$1,500.00
  
• Ambassadors of foreign countries who served and retired in the Philippines- US$1,500.00
  

Note: The PRA Accredited banks agree to accept any acceptable foreign currency for deposit in the accounts, provided that it shall be credited to the account as the United States Dollars or Philippine Pesos equivalent

The money needs to be deposited in a Philippine approved account for 6 months, then can be removed and reinvested in the country :-

INVESTMENTS

WHAT AREAS OF INVESTMENTS ARE AVAILABLE TO A RESIDENT RETIREE?

The areas of investment are the following:

1. Purchase of a condominium unit;
   
2. Lease of a parcel of land or house and lot;
   
3. Construction of a residential unit on a leased parcel of land;
   
4. Propriety shares in golf clubs;
   
5. For former Filipinos, purchase of a lot not exceeding 5,000 square meters in urban areas or three (3) hectares rural areas to be used for business or other purposes.
   

After a set period of years, the holder can then get a citizenship if required -

CAN RESIDENT RETIREE APPLY FOR PHILIPPINE CITIZENSHIP?

Yes, in accordance with the Naturalization Law of the Philippines. One of the basic requirements for naturalization is the continuous residency in the Philippines for a period of ten (10) years.

The period may be reduced to five (5) years if the applicant has any of the following qualifications:

1. Has honorably held office under the Government of the Philippines or under that of any of the provinces, cities, municipalities, or political subdivision thereof;
   
2. Has established a new industry or introduced a useful invention in the Philippines;
   
3. Being married to a Filipino citizen;
   
4. Has been engaged as a teacher in the Philippines for a period of at least two (2) years;
   
5. Has been born in the Philippines.
   
   

Note: For former Filipino citizens, the Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act of 2003 applies.

As said before I could never live there myself as it just does not do it for me, but there imigration laws leave Thailands in the dark for those of us who are still young enough to get it up without a little blue pill. Hope the Thai imigration does read this forum and take note, why not start a long stay visa here with reasonably high financial requirements for the under 50's with an accountable high desposible income from overseas, and yes I do pay taxes in my home country and not a shady Yank who works in Thailand but does not do any work cause it's all on the internet!

Looked at the Elite Card when it first came out and only!! cost 1 million baht, then on top of the 5 year visa you could also buy a house through them in much the same as with setting up a company except it was government approved (see this benefit has now been removed). Was very tempted till I ask for me the all important question, which was:-

Is the 5 year visa that is issued renewable after the 5 years or a one time issue?

I still have never received a reply and until then all other questions had been answered asap, even the application pack arrived in the UK within 24 hours of requesting it. That was the clincher for me and decided to pass it as I only wanted the visa, and no answer started the alarm bells ringing.

[Maestro]

...this tightening of its immigration laws...

Just so that we are all clear about this: the original post in this topic is not about a tightening of immigration laws. It is about one Thai consulate, in Penang, implementing an existing requirement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) for the tourist visa in a somewhat unorthodox fashion. From the website of the MFA :

2. TOURIST VISA

1. REQUIREMENT

This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes .

2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

- Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months

- Visa application form completely filled out

- Recent( 4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant

- Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)

- Evidence of adequate finance (10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family)

- Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

The Penang requirement goes beyond the MFA requirement in that it requires air travel to a country that is not near Thailand.

--

Maestro

[johnnysneds]

Thailand Elite Card...Problem Solved

[marshbags]

...And why do you think most nation states have immigration controls as your's most certainly does.

Isn't Poland a member of E.U.?

So please explain how are they working in U.K. illegally.

Maybe tax evasion???

I.ll be happy to enlighten you on this one, if i may.

On behalf of my brother, a master builder of many years and many of his self employed mates. who unlike him, are finding it increasingly difficult to fing work.

Many of the Eastern block workers are employed OFF the books, do not pay taxes, National Insurance ect. ect.

Work for well below the basic rates for their respective employers, willing to employ them illegally, and both are in a win, win, situation as the emloyee gets benefits to allow them to work for low rates along with all the subsidies that go with alledgedly being unemployed and the unscrupulous employer is as a consequence, guaranteed a cheap and willing work force.

Not unlike many who are doing like wise and have similar arrangements in Thailand, cheap labour / and employer wise, that is

May i suggest that this is one of the reasons legit visa holders in Thailand, are finding it increasingly difficult to satisfy ongoing changes to Immigration laws, and the tightening up of them

marshbags

Edited February 4, 2008 by marshbags

[Frotting]

so are the other neighboring countries OK? Singapore, KL?

This is an interesting thread, as it has a lot of implications for us. I currently live/work in KL but wouldn't want to settle here. Residence is relatively easy for Malaysia, but you need to fulfill some criteria. For us (white farang) there's a system in place called 'Malaysia my second home'. You can own property here, but the property must be worth a minimum amount. You also have to have a source of income or a pension worth a minimum of 12,000 Ringgit a month (about 125,000 Baht). An alternative is to have an equivalent amount of money in a bank I've heard it's in the region 800,000 Ringgit (that's alot of money). You'll have to check it out, but frankly I think Thailand is over all better a place to live and I'm sure malaysia will implode in the next 10 years, for reasons far to long to go into here.

Singapore is relatively straight forward to get residency, but again it's funds. You can't own land I'm told (I have friends live there) but you can own a condo. I think there's something about age, like if you're over 60 you don't have a chance. All these places seem to have their own idiosyncrasies.

I gather from the comments in this thread that there are many people now who are starting to have 'second thoughts', and I would personally like to exchange information with them.

I have been married to a Thai for 4 years and we have about 30 Rai (in her name) on which we were/are planning to do a building project. We've lived in Brunei and Malaysia for the last 2 1/2 years. During the last two years I've learned more about Thailand (this site is a mine of information by the way) and now I'm not sure if the retirement thing/settling in Thailand is a sound idea.

Are there any other people who have cut their ties with their country of origin (England in my case) with a view to relocating to Thailand, only to find out after some time that all is not quite so good here? I don't mean the wife by the way, but the country, politics, judicial system, etc, etc.

But like the originator of this thread seems to suggest, "Where else is there?"

[sonnyJ]

Southern Burma would be great after a nice coup d'etat. Or if the generals would get a bit smarter they could sell/lease the whole of Tenasserim Division to farangs to build up and develop. Then we could hire Damian and Rambo to keep up the law and order there. Would be a win-win for everyone.

[aqua4]

(You do realise that Thai immigration read this site, don't you? You're doing their job for them. )

Makes no real difference as they will note that they had issued you one before and wonder why you had not left Thailand. They will look for the entry and exit stamps of your home country.

[Digitalbanana]

[(You do realise that Thai immigration read this site, don't you? You're doing their job for them. )

Not another censorship debate again? Yawn.

[sonnyJ]

Freedom

[mel2surf]

Comes down to caring about regular working folks,whether Thai or Malaysian or falangs...

So Thailand wants to apply its rules but they should consider Mohammed and others in Penang before they do it - BWHAAAAAAA and they said naive was being removed from the dictionary as we are all too cynical now.

Tell you what - give Thai Immigration a call and tell them of your concerns about mohammed and his pals

Another one with an inflated sense of the worth of the transient farang dollar amount spent by those without the means to get legitimate visa's to stay long term.

Did you read my post or can't you be bothered?..Too busy slaggin off others who dare to question the logic of this ruling.

So,you have a "legit" long term visa do you? Well woop dee doo.You want a medal or something? As I stated,this will affect Thais,Malaysians and Falangs,but I guess you don't care. An "inflated sense of the worth of transient falang dollars" huh.

Bwaaahahaha! You don't know me.I CAN get a "legitimate" long term visa if I choose to. I'm still here in Jomtien after more than 2 years spending my worthless transient dollars,and guess what? I don't work illegally,I don't take a local Thais job,I play by the rules ...same as you. You have a long term visa good on ya,but the bottom line is you are still a foreigner,and your leash is longer but the rules can change just as easily for you.We're all in this together mate. Have a nice day.

[rotorbreeze]

Members regarding Penang Visa

I just returned by AirAsia back to Bkk on obtaining a Non-immigrant visa for 90 days. No problems as long as you go through the Visa Service, Banna Boat Guest House offer this service also many others. Banna Boat Guest house is far more organized than most services, daily they make 20 to 30 ringit on each visa application. My visa application was among some 40 per day. My belief is that a lot of money is made from this service which the government or some official is getting a cut. Rumors about getting it done yourself only adds to the grief is you are on budget..just pay and have peace of mind..forget about going in person only to get hassel..for what $9 dollars. One lady (suspect women liber) caused such a fuss she was denied re-entry..so one less women liber to Thailand!

I spent some 6K baht in flight costs and hotels..too bad this money was not spent in the Thai economy!

For those whom go to Penang caution to the place you stay. A north American backpacker women was on the street the early morning of my departure crying and histerical. Friends hurried down the road to her assistance, the women lost all her belongings in a cheap 20 ringit hotel. I suggest when you go to Penang as in any Asian city be careful on where you stay..spend the extra for a secure room, talk with guests and ask them how secure is the hostel/hotel. The money not spent on a safe, clean hotel will cost 1000% in the long term so get wise and spend money on a secure place to stay!

I hope all of you have a prosperious Chinese NewYear..my peace to all..

rotor

//Edit: this post is about a non-immigrant visa and therefore off-topic. This topic is about tourist visa. -- Maestro

[I Go With You]

nice post roto and what you say makes good sense, esp. the part about being penny wise and pound foolish

[mel2surf]

Members regarding Penang Visa

I just returned by AirAsia back to Bkk on obtaining a Non-immigrant visa for 90 days...

Encouraging.

thanks for that rotor!

[Crossy]

Seems they also want a hotel reservation now

...Two freshly home-printed signs were posted at the consulate. One was on the board facing the line of people, the other was on the application window. Both said the same: they want "original air ticket" and "hotel reservation" for tourist visa applications.

They gave everyone the same spiel. "Now must have ticket home and hotel". A bit of arguing went on with young backpacker types as everyone tried to explain why they didn't have this. ...

Edited February 4, 2008 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote the entire, lengthy post - Maestro

[koheesti]

Why should Thailand be bothered what happens elsewhere ie Malaysia, regarding jobs and business if they want to apply their sovereignty and apply their rules?

Absolutely none - the business concerned should have known the risk and built this in their plan.

Governments often complain and try to influence change when one does something that hurts another's commerce. It wouldn't be unusual if the Malaysian gov't complained to the Thai gov't after hearing complaints from Malaysian businesses about how they are suffering/closing due to irregular visa regulations such as requiring a plane ticket to home country instead of just out of Thailand. Judging by the previous post which said hundreds of apps were received by the consulate that one day before noon we could be talking about serious money being lost. by Malaysian businesses.

Edited February 4, 2008 by koheesti

[LivinLOS]

...Whatever, you are wrong and don’t understand tax regulations...

I think you are contradicting your self here.

Yes the Thais INVENTED their game.

You stay over 180days in a fiscal year you are considered a resident which mean you need to pay tax from foreign income to Thai authorities by the local (law). Unless you are paying taxes somewhere else, which happen to have an anti double taxation treaties with Thailand.

Again it still doesnt matter...

After 183 days your due to be taxed on worldwide income..

However if ytour physically in Thailand when working it can be deemed Thai sourced income and taxes are due from day 1.

[LivinLOS]

I always thought a tourist was someone on holiday ie they are not working, perhaps Thailand should introduce a "Working Holiday" visa that allows people to stay indefinetely, work and pay no taxes in any country?

I have been here for years and havent worked a day..

Yet still the board would say you shouldnt be here on a tourist visa.

[tropo]

Members regarding Penang Visa

I just returned by AirAsia back to Bkk on obtaining a Non-immigrant visa for 90 days...

Your post is misleading with regard to a tourist visa applications and could end up causing a lot of people grief and a wasted trip to Penang.

Using an agent cannot circumvent the regulations set by the consulate for a particular visa.

Applicants will still need to show an air ticket and hotel bookings which the consulate have lately posted as necessary for a tourist visa application.

[mel2surf]

I always thought a tourist was someone on holiday ie they are not working, perhaps Thailand should introduce a "Working Holiday" visa that allows people to stay indefinetely, work and pay no taxes in any country?

I have been here for years and havent worked a day..

Yet still the board would say you shouldnt be here on a tourist visa.

Seems some think our dollars are worth less than theirs.

Laughable. As Dylan said "The times they are a changin"..Yesterday(sunday in high season)

my TG and I were heading up to Big C around 1PM and 2nd Rd. was not only manageable,but

pretty DEAD..all the beer bars too,and many taxi guys standing around looking pretty pissed off.

We were amazed. It's most likely a multitude of events colliding to cause this drop off in tourists,but

I'd wager that the visa regs. are pretty high up on that list of events.

[Jingthing]

You have a long term visa good on ya,but the bottom line is you are still a foreigner,and your leash is longer but the rules can change just as easily for you.We're all in this together mate. Have a nice day.

Here is one guy on a "long term" visa (or leash, if you will) who fully supports and understands your statement. First they come for the visa runners ... then ????

Edited February 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[mel2surf]

You have a long term visa good on ya,but the bottom line is you are still a foreigner,and your leash is longer but the rules can change just as easily for you.We're all in this together mate. Have a nice day.

Here is one guy on a "long term" visa (or leash, if you will) who fully supports and understands your statement. First they come for the visa runners ... then ????

Thx.

We should be helpin each other out,not judging/chastising etc.

[lopburi3]

tropo wrote:

Your post is misleading with regard to a tourist visa applications and could end up causing a lot of people grief and a wasted trip to Penang.

But the report was about non immigrant visa issue - not tourist visas.

[jstumbo]

tropo wrote:

Your post is misleading with regard to a tourist visa applications and could end up causing a lot of people grief and a wasted trip to Penang.

But the report was about non immigrant visa issue - not tourist visas.

But it was posted into a thread that is talking about the additional requirements for a tourist visa. People could miss that it was talking about a non immigrant visa and think that things are easy in Penang.

[tropo]

tropo wrote:

Your post is misleading with regard to a tourist visa applications and could end up causing a lot of people grief and a wasted trip to Penang.

But the report was about non immigrant visa issue - not tourist visas.

But it was posted into a thread that is talking about the additional requirements for a tourist visa. People could miss that it was talking about a non immigrant visa and think that things are easy in Penang.

Yes Lopburi, it was posted in a thread discussing tourist visas.

Apart form that, his advice is incorrect.

He's suggesting that using an agent is a sure way to get a visa. This is not so.

It comes across as though the "Banana Boat Guest House" can fix a visa for anyone.

[Sturbuc]

...

... I'm an American making a pile of money on the internet, and not paying any Thai taxes...

if this means you're not paying taxes at all - must be a great feeling to get all the amenities of a society without giving back something....

[sonnyJ]

...Again it still doesnt matter...

I think this all matters and thanks for the add on the laws. So it should be clear now.

Working on internet in Thailand is vary rarely enforced though. I know a guy who visited various gov. offices in Bangkok and tried to find out how to pay the tax from his internet business, they weren't interested at all and told him to bugger off.

[Prakanong]

"Governments often complain and try to influence change when one does something that hurts another's commerce. It wouldn't be unusual if the Malaysian gov't complained to the Thai gov't after hearing complaints from Malaysian businesses about how they are suffering/closing due to irregular visa regulations such as requiring a plane ticket to home country instead of just out of Thailand. Judging by the previous post which said hundreds of apps were received by the consulate that one day before noon we could be talking about serious money being lost. by Malaysian businesses."

I agree a govt might have issues over another country's policies affecting business and trhe economy in its country.

However, I hardly think a few absolutely tiny business's are going to cause the Malaysian govt to utter a squeak. Really the notion is absurd in this case. The amount of money is a pittance. I really think you can not grasp the reality of cross border economics and that which would cause one country to talk to another.

Can you really not imagine how silly the notion is?

The visa regulations are are hardly irregular either - many countries require a return ticket out and Thaioand is choosing to do so at this one place now which is perfectly withing their rights.

[rimbung]

The hits on this thread say it all. There are a lot of 'tourist visa' holders getting very worried.

Now let us look at the USA, Canada,Europe,Japan and Australia. A tourist visa here prevents work of any kind and is limited to three months. The average tourist is lucky to have three weeks holiday!

Thailand wants the same.

We all know what the score is here. It does not affect genuine tourists. It does not pose a problem for non immigrant O visa holders or those on business visas.

However it creates a big problem for the 'jack the lad' residents with a no tax/no problems escape from it all lifestyle.

Rent a house,bar,girlfriend etc with no hassle. They drop off the tax register from whence they came and do not exist here.

In short a bit like Panama,Northern Cyprus,Spain years ago and a few other parts of the world.

The problem is the internet and global news means you can hide nowhere and problems are no longer easily swept under the carpet.

The UK rock star Gary Glitter is a good example.

All these posts about Thailand and Malaysia losing business are rubbish. Farang Ki Nok sums up the tourist visa runners.

I look forward to tighter visa controls in Thailand.

And for those who think that Pattaya is all about Walking Street just look north. Real estate values will swallow this cheap tacky

part of Thailand in a decade.

[Maigo6]

All these posts about Thailand and Malaysia losing business are rubbish. Farang Ki Nok sums up the tourist visa runners.

I look forward to tighter visa controls in Thailand.

[girlx]

so as for practical matters:

the Royal Thai Consulate-General in Penang as from TOMORROW, February 1 2008, will only issue Tourist Visas to those in possession of an air ticket departing from Thailand to an international destination not local in the same region. (i.e. not Vietnam, Malaysia or similar.)

which countries are considered in the same region? all of asia?

could one still get a visa in bali? india? is laos still offering a tourist visa?