Tomorrow sees me flying out of Sandland for the last time - off to Vietnam to build a few power plants.

I will not be sorry to go - the Middle East has taken a very large step towards fundamentalism, intolerance and disdain towards the West. Or am I just seeing it through older eyes?

Since the mid-seventies I have spent two-thirds of my life in this area and in the past seven years it has gone into a rapid reverse gear. I have felt very uncomfortable here for the past 2 1/2 years, something I had not felt before, except in outback Nigeria.

This is not just Iraq, or the US threatening Iran, nor the Palestinian/Israeli difficulties, although they all play a part.

There is a difference in the whole of Islam - very few tolerant clerics - many firebrands - people listening to the hate messages - the superiority messages - the only people being broadcast on Friday television being the hate-mongers.

I do really fear for the future, somewhere, somehow, someone must try to build bridges. This is not happening in the West (because it's a 'sign of weakness'?) and certainly not happening here in the ME.

I know that political discussion is not allowed here, but this isn't party politics, it is survival.

These days even the truth is non PC.

These days even the truth is non PC.

Shouting in a vacuum - no one hears you.

Now if the good old USofA would have kept their nose out of Suez...................who knows !!

Also interested to know your opinions on the success of Dubai. How are they keeping the radicals at bay ?

Now if the good old USofA would have kept their nose out of Suez...................who knows !!

Also interested to know your opinions on the success of Dubai. How are they keeping the radicals at bay ?

I worked in the Emirates a few years ago (2002-3).

Although I was in Abu Dhabi Emirate, I did travel to Dubai on business.

In the Emirates the local population is matched (exceeded) in numbers by the labour force, mainly Indian, many from Kerala. They keep a very low profile, but the more enterprising do start up small shops and the like. Everyone is interested in making money - it is a very conspicuous trait. Also the labour is shipped-out when not employed. So there is a very low unemployment rate, and only really among the Emiratees, who are supported by the family, state, what-have-you. So little sign of poverty, except in the construction labour camps. And as those guys are working, no trouble.

Prosperity takes away a lot of jealousy. Especially when you know that you are better-off than your starving neighbours back home.

The ruler of Dubai is investing fortunes in infrastructure and other works. He is treted with the same respect as the King is in Thailand. There is a great belief there that they are prosperous.

But there are less Emiratees than there are Palestinians. (Palestinians that live in Palestine - most live and work outside their home country). And it is the P's that make the news on a daily basis, not the Emiratees.

Prosperity rather than poverty would go some way towards easing tensions, but this is not the case in Saudi, nor in the North African countries. Probably is in Pakistan, I don't know. Never worked there.

Indonesia - although poor - seems to keep it's problems on an internal level most of the time - it is the Chinese Indonesians who suffer attacks, then respond, then get attacked again - so on. Many of them are Christian and this gets labelled as a religious thing. But again it is poor rice farmers who owe money to the local shopkeepers (Chinese Indonesians). Poverty.

Islam is the religion of the poor - maybe just coincidence - the area that has converted to Islam over the past millenium has stagnated while everywhere else seems to have prospered. Why is this? Lack of education? Lack of opportunity? Barriers put up by the more advanced peoples? War, colonialism, exploitation?

Whatever, there is a very strong undercurrent (break for lunch) of a feeling of being exploited and undervalued by the West among even the prosperous, well-educated people of the region that I havemet and worked with. This was not present ten, fifteen or twenty years ago - or not obvious to me.

Interesting post, HB. You talk about building bridges; if you were someone with political and/or economic clout, what would you be advocating? This isn't a loaded question; take it at face-value.

Bladdy he11 Humphrey, you've just p1ssed on my parade. I've been offered a job in Riyadh and i have to give my decision tomorrow. Spent the last week negotiating my T's and C's and it looks like i'm gonna say yes but your summation of the Middle East has somehow made me feel a bit flat.

Good luck in Vietnam though

Tomorrow sees me flying out of Sandland for the last time - off to Vietnam to build a few power plants.

I will not be sorry to go - the Middle East has taken a very large step towards fundamentalism, intolerance and disdain towards the West. Or am I just seeing it through older eyes?

Since the mid-seventies I have spent two-thirds of my life in this area and in the past seven years it has gone into a rapid reverse gear. I have felt very uncomfortable here for the past 2 1/2 years, something I had not felt before, except in outback Nigeria.

This is not just Iraq, or the US threatening Iran, nor the Palestinian/Israeli difficulties, although they all play a part.

There is a difference in the whole of Islam - very few tolerant clerics - many firebrands - people listening to the hate messages - the superiority messages - the only people being broadcast on Friday television being the hate-mongers.

I do really fear for the future, somewhere, somehow, someone must try to build bridges. This is not happening in the West (because it's a 'sign of weakness'?) and certainly not happening here in the ME.

I know that political discussion is not allowed here, but this isn't party politics, it is survival.

Now if the good old USofA would have kept their nose out of Suez...................who knows !!

Also interested to know your opinions on the success of Dubai. How are they keeping the radicals at bay ?

I worked in the Emirates a few years ago (2002-3).

Although I was in Abu Dhabi Emirate, I did travel to Dubai on business.

In the Emirates the local population is matched (exceeded) in numbers by the labour force, mainly Indian, many from Kerala. They keep a very low profile, but the more enterprising do start up small shops and the like. Everyone is interested in making money - it is a very conspicuous trait. Also the labour is shipped-out when not employed. So there is a very low unemployment rate, and only really among the Emiratees, who are supported by the family, state, what-have-you. So little sign of poverty, except in the construction labour camps. And as those guys are working, no trouble.

Prosperity takes away a lot of jealousy. Especially when you know that you are better-off than your starving neighbours back home.

The ruler of Dubai is investing fortunes in infrastructure and other works. He is treted with the same respect as the King is in Thailand. There is a great belief there that they are prosperous.

But there are less Emiratees than there are Palestinians. (Palestinians that live in Palestine - most live and work outside their home country). And it is the P's that make the news on a daily basis, not the Emiratees.

Prosperity rather than poverty would go some way towards easing tensions, but this is not the case in Saudi, nor in the North African countries. Probably is in Pakistan, I don't know. Never worked there.

Indonesia - although poor - seems to keep it's problems on an internal level most of the time - it is the Chinese Indonesians who suffer attacks, then respond, then get attacked again - so on. Many of them are Christian and this gets labelled as a religious thing. But again it is poor rice farmers who owe money to the local shopkeepers (Chinese Indonesians). Poverty.

Islam is the religion of the poor - maybe just coincidence - the area that has converted to Islam over the past millenium has stagnated while everywhere else seems to have prospered. Why is this? Lack of education? Lack of opportunity? Barriers put up by the more advanced peoples? War, colonialism, exploitation?

Whatever, there is a very strong undercurrent (break for lunch) of a feeling of being exploited and undervalued by the West among even the prosperous, well-educated people of the region that I havemet and worked with. This was not present ten, fifteen or twenty years ago - or not obvious to me.

Hb, great posts, sir.

Bladdy he11 Humphrey, you've just p1ssed on my parade. I've been offered a job in Riyadh and i have to give my decision tomorrow. Spent the last week negotiating my T's and C's and it looks like i'm gonna say yes but your summation of the Middle East has somehow made me feel a bit flat.

Good luck in Vietnam though

...in the middle of the -luxury- desert.....but still desert.

For all the money in the world I would never do that; If I couldn't continue the lifestyle I was used to I wouldn't go.....money isn't everything.

Also, I wonder if farang expats are really respected by the Arabs or just seen as 'high paid' slaves and kicked out once they're not needed anymore....

Sort of LOS, but better paid, no girlie bars, no Thai food and no beaches...

LaoPo

Also interested to know your opinions on the success of Dubai. How are they keeping the radicals at bay ?

That question bubbled in my mind too.

I wonder who the buyers are in Dubai. They're promoting heavily in Europe (don't know about the rest of the world....?) but personally I don't know anybody who actually bought an apartment or house on one of those islands. But I do know lots of people who have a second home elsewhere.

Also, I don't see the 'fun' sitting in the extreme heat over there, but who am I ?

What can you do there, apart from driving your expensive speedboat (or larger) take a dive in the lukewarm sea and shopping in expensive malls and shops....

I saw a documentary about the future enormous problems with logistics, transporting people to and from the hundreds and hundreds of islands by taxiboats and/or shuttles...

I mean if you have a house on the mainland you just close the door and jump in your car or on the motobike.

The fundamentalistic news is daily on television and I wonder who wants to live there or buy an expensive second home...

I'm puzzled...anybody ?

LaoPo

Cheers for you positive thoughts LaoPo

Cheers for you positive thoughts LaoPo

You want positive:

how to have fun in Riyadh

Cheers for you positive thoughts LaoPo

Sorry for that BoJangles, but they are my thoughts and I wouldn't want to work for and live in an Arabian country, sorry.

I am too much of an individual and hate to be told what's good and not good in the eyes of whatever religion...and Saudi Arabia IS a country with a religion like that.

Let me put it even stronger: even in the case they would offer me a Million €/Year for 32 hours/week...I wouldn't go. Not even in the case if I was dead poor.

My self esteem is much stronger than money...

But, again, sorry if I upset you. You are the one who have to make the decision and I do not envy you....!

Wish you Good Luck though and I mean that.

LaoPo

Let me put it even stronger: even in the case they would offer me a Million €/Year for 32 hours/week...I wouldn't go. Not even in the case if I was dead poor.

My self esteem is much stronger than money...

What makes you have such a high negative view? Have you worked in the region before? I have worked in Kuwait before, didn't like it very much but didn't think it was that bad.

Wish you Good Luck though and I mean that.

Shokran

25 years ago I was in the Merchant Navy and used to visit the Gulf on a regular basis. Even then when we were headed for Saudi I had to sit and transcribe a 600 word telegram listing all the things we weren't allowed to do. I've seen a Gray Mackenzie pilot arrested and taken to prison for trying to smuggle a 2lb pack of Walls bacon ashore. The best thing about the Gulf is an eastbound transit of the Straits of Hormuz

Bladdy he11 Humphrey, you've just p1ssed on my parade. I've been offered a job in Riyadh and i have to give my decision tomorrow. Spent the last week negotiating my T's and C's and it looks like i'm gonna say yes but your summation of the Middle East has somehow made me feel a bit flat.

Good luck in Vietnam though

Make sure you have a car in your contract. Petrol is very cheap - pennies per litre, Riyadh is very large.

If you've worked in the ME before, you'll know the way to dress, the way to behave. If not, then - do not wear shorts outside your (Western) compound - but do wear long trousers. Always be polite and self-effacing. Yes sir; No sir; three bags full sir. Goes down very well. Do not go out before midday on a Friday - you'll wind up in the front row of the local entertainment at head-chop square.

If you keep your head down and count your money, it is surviveable. But whereas I used to enjoy myself in these countries, now I do it just for the money.

25 years ago I was in the Merchant Navy and used to visit the Gulf on a regular basis. Even then when we were headed for Saudi I had to sit and transcribe a 600 word telegram listing all the things we weren't allowed to do. I've seen a Gray Mackenzie pilot arrested and taken to prison for trying to smuggle a 2lb pack of Walls bacon ashore. The best thing about the Gulf is an eastbound transit of the Straits of Hormuz

Well, that was a dam_n stupid thing to do. A containerful of bacon, for profit, maybe. But a 2lb pack?

Gray MacKenzie are the suppliers of alcohol to the UAE - their outlets are everywhere. But if you're talking about Saudi .....

Give up all thoughts of alcohol, pig, women. These are available at a price, but if caught the price is too high. So get in the mind-set that these are not there.

It's do-able. But go there with the right (positive) attitude that you are there to work, will work and make a success of it. Then go home and watch the wife spend the money. Then go out and earn more. Come home and watch the wife spend ...... You get the idea.

Make sure you have a car in your contract. Petrol is very cheap - pennies per litre, Riyadh is very large.

If you've worked in the ME before, you'll know the way to dress, the way to behave. If not, then - do not wear shorts outside your (Western) compound - but do wear long trousers. Always be polite and self-effacing. Yes sir; No sir; three bags full sir. Goes down very well. Do not go out before midday on a Friday - you'll wind up in the front row of the local entertainment at head-chop square.

If you keep your head down and count your money, it is surviveable. But whereas I used to enjoy myself in these countries, now I do it just for the money.

Thanks Humph.

Apart from the tax free stupid money, i got a car, free petrol, free accomodation, houseboy, free food etc, etc. The contract is too good to turn down. I worked in Kuwait before but didn't like it much due to the infrastructure and lack of things to do in my spare time. And i'm ex-navy, so, yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, is no problem for me.

You mention 'compound' so you probably know which company i'm with. A brand new, huge compound with restaurants, swimming pools, gyms, social clubs etc. etc. The people i have spoken to, who have been there many years, say they really enjoy the new accomodation and is 3 fold better than the last one. They really don't need to leave it as there is enough to do but their wives like to go shopping into town, of which they haven't had any hassle.

MrsBoJ won't be joining me initially though, so that will be the hardest thing, along with the baby due end Aug/Sept.

Just to ease Mr BJ away with a smile......................

STOP PRESS:

Due to extreme pressure from pinko liberals, the UK weather forecast will now be given in Arabic and nothing else.

The weather from now on will be officially........Sunni or Shi -ite

Welcome to Viet Nam HB, it is everything Thailand is and more.

Driving here is a job best left to the locals as it defies any attempt at logic or common sense.

Working with Vietnamese sub-contractors requires a sense of humour beyond belief plus the patience of a saint.

Site safety is an uphill battle, we've had 7 deaths on this site so far and the minister for industry actually commented that all these safety regs are making wimps of the Vietnamese workers.

The local food is, IMO, as good as Thai but in general not so spicy.

The local beers are as good as you get anywhere worldwide but cheaper (currently around 7 - 12,000VND for a 450ml bottle 45 - 75 cents of bia Saigon) but more expensive in HCM City. Where I am, out in the sticks, the concept of cold beer is totally alien to the Vietnamese but we are gradually educating them in the finer aspects of western culture (and buying the odd refridgerator or two). In addition to local brews you can get Heineken and Tiger but, as to be expected, more expensive.

The weather is bluddy hot and humid.

The people, again out here in the sticks, are friendlier than the average Thai although there is a little anti-American sentiment here as we are close to the site of My Lai. Western people are few and far between here and the locals speak little or no English but they do like to practice their "hello" and "what's your name?" which is about their limit. It's different in Ha Noi or HCM City but once you are out in the sticks it truly comes home just how rural the economy is.

The language is deceptively difficult to learn. You get lulled into a false sense of security seeing Romanised characters used but don't get fooled as the pronunciation is very often not at all what you'd think it should be. Plus there must be at least a dozen different versions of Vietnamese where not only pronunciation changes but they use totally different words.

Anyhow : chào đón bạn đến với Cộng hòa Xã hội chủ nghĩa Việt nam (welcome to the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam)

25 years ago I was in the Merchant Navy and used to visit the Gulf on a regular basis. Even then when we were headed for Saudi I had to sit and transcribe a 600 word telegram listing all the things we weren't allowed to do. I've seen a Gray Mackenzie pilot arrested and taken to prison for trying to smuggle a 2lb pack of Walls bacon ashore. The best thing about the Gulf is an eastbound transit of the Straits of Hormuz

Well, that was a dam_n stupid thing to do. A containerful of bacon, for profit, maybe. But a 2lb pack?

Gray MacKenzie are the suppliers of alcohol to the UAE - their outlets are everywhere. But if you're talking about Saudi .....

They used to supply Iran up until 1979. Rumour has it that when the Ayatollah returned from Paris Gray Mackenzie had 8 million quid's worth of booze packed away in trucks driving round the country trying to get out. We used to carry halal mutton from Oz and we were one of the first ships back into Bandar Shapour (renamed Bandar Khomeini ) after the revolution. The first thing that the dockers asked when they came on board was 'Got any beer?'

Just to ease Mr BJ away with a smile......................

STOP PRESS:

Due to extreme pressure from pinko liberals, the UK weather forecast will now be given in Arabic and nothing else.

The weather from now on will be officially........Sunni or Shi -ite

Boom boom

Just to ease Mr BJ away with a smile......................

STOP PRESS:

Due to extreme pressure from pinko liberals, the UK weather forecast will now be given in Arabic and nothing else.

The weather from now on will be officially........Sunni or Shi -ite

Boom boom

Groan!!

Just to ease Mr BJ away with a smile......................

STOP PRESS:

Due to extreme pressure from pinko liberals, the UK weather forecast will now be given in Arabic and nothing else.

The weather from now on will be officially........Sunni or Shi -ite

Boom boom

Groan!!

Just to ease Mr BJ away with a smile......................

STOP PRESS:

Due to extreme pressure from pinko liberals, the UK weather forecast will now be given in Arabic and nothing else.

The weather from now on will be officially........Sunni or Shi -ite

Boom boom

Groan!!

So that's how you reach such a high number of posts BoJangles....hmmmm

LaoPo

So that's how you reach such a high number of posts BoJangles....hmmmm

LaoPo

Sorry, 'oh ye who is the prolific poster'. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses

On Samui airport ?

LaoPo

Brussels ?

LaoPo

They only marry a farang after a hole-in-one.

LaoPo

1,587 now....it's getting bad.

LaoPo

Right, two years away and I can't even get the gender right. I guess I am getting too lao myself. ...

(but if I wanted to split hairs, they both mean wife or husband, but not "my husband/wife")

Correct; I'm glad I have hair enough to split...

LaoPo

SRJ, did you read that last sentence? LOL 55555

I did, but thought it was me.....

LaoPo

...hmmmmm...shall I have another one ?

LaoPo