Two Tier / Double Pricing For Farang

onethailand · April 4, 2008

Too bad you didn't manage to keep the site up - sounds like it was very interesting.

I don't like double-tiered pricing - but I don't face it very often either since I don't go to tourist places often, and if golf I always get whatever price my friend is paying.

I do know, however, that it definitely works both ways - Thais often have to pay more than farang in a number of hotels. What the government needs to do is to officially prohibit dual pricing - something I highly doubt the current government is going to do...

ClaytonSeymour · April 4, 2008

I pay more money in taxes to the Thai government every month than the combined taxes paid by the 30-odd members of my wife's extended family. I find the practice of two-tier pricing racist and abhorrent.

Here's a very real example of double-pricing in the UK: Thai Square chain of restaurants. They have nightclubs below where foreigners (non-Thais) are charged £15 and Thais go in quietly for free. This has been going on relentlessley since it opened 10 years ago. The owner is an Arab with a Thai wife. There are UK nightclubs where I go in quietly for free - I'm a friend of the doormen.

colino · April 4, 2008

just to add there was a program on Thai tv last Thursday night channel 3 10.30ish (sorry don't know the name )

they where reporting about some taxi's in bangkok , that were turning Thais away because they wanted tourists only , drivers bumping up the price to put Thais off , the TV company had hidden cameras and used a couple of tourists and Thais , to approach taxi's ,

I got the impression that as this was annoying quite a few Thais it made it on to TV , dual pricing reversed and they don't like it

jeffer · April 4, 2008

I usually vote with my feet these days at most places that want to charge excessive fees because I am not Thai. I'm sure the ticket seller couldn't care less but neither do I any more. As for national parks I've seen most worth seeing years ago and it's not as if Thailand has a monopoly on scenic attractions. Plenty of other nice places I can visit all over the world that don't demand silly fees like 400 baht for some minor waterfall that you have to walk along pathways strewn with rubbish to get to. If the money was spent on the upkeep of these places it wouldn't be so bad but it isn't.

Payboy · April 4, 2008

about some taxi's in bangkok , that were turning Thais away because they wanted tourists only , drivers bumping up the price to put Thais off

happens all the time in the taxi queue at mbk or siam paragon and probably most other places that foreign tourists frequent.....

peter991 · April 4, 2008

Interesting thread. I think the posters to date have it covered.

In summary:

1) Vote with your feet - if you are offended, don't visit / use the facilities. A couple of months ago I visited Bangkok's Dream World theme park. Prices are clearly displayed - when Thai friend and I arrived, he was allowed to buy a ticket at the entry and I was told to 'go inside shop' to buy mine. Let's just say he demanded to speak with the Duty Manager and I was probably the only farang this year let in for Thai price.

2) Baht bus - get your Thai partner to pay and walk away. On the rate occasions I am allowed to visit Pattaya, I have great delight on walking away as my Thai pays the 'Thai price' for both of us. One baht bus driver lost 15 minutes of sales when he threatened me. We all waited while the Tourist Police arrived - they told him to stop cheating farangs.

3) Get your Thai partner to book your accommodation. The hotel we stay at Bangkok advertises double rooms at 750 baht a night. It's a clean but cheap hotel with a pool in Saphan Kwai. My Thai books a room at the Thai rate of 400 baht a night and they smile and are very polite when we both check in.

Peter

markg · April 4, 2008

I’m sure these discrepancies do happen but I doubt if they are based on skin color – maybe on foreigners irrespective of color. However outside the hurly-burly of the tourist hot-spots I doubt if the practice is that common. Seems to me that there are several aspects to the “apparent” two tier pricing by Thais to “Farang”.

Yes, it's not based just on skin colour. It's based on skin colour and general appearance.

2 quick examples. On a recent visit to Doi Suthep in Chiang Mai, (A Buddhist temple - there's an intolerant paradox ! ) there is a HUGE sign, about 2metres square, saying "Foreigners" and pointing to a very large building with a number of ticket kiosks in it. Thai's of course go in for free. I flashed my Thai driving licence and that got me in for free.

I wonder if a foreign Buddhist or a Thai Christian also get in for free?

Second example is in reverse. A Thai female friend of mine, is rather chunky, has large eyes and a 'normal' sized nose and very pale skin. She really doesnt look Thai at all. Even i thought she was European. But both her parents are Thai and she was born and bred here - lived here all her life. SHe has the devils own job getting into places without hassle. Even been accused of having a forged ID card and been made to sing the national anthem.

The simple fact is that there should be one-tier pricing. Or if not, there should be Thai pricing for people who pay taxes in Thailand and support the Thai economy by living here.

My wifes family are farmers. They pay the square root of <deleted> all in tax. All their income is undeclared, or under the tax paying threshold. I have paid more tax in 5 years than the 8 of them put together all their lives. Tell me again how they are supporting government provided places like parks and i'm not? They get a rather nice income from there 100 plus rai of farm land thank you very much. They have 2 cars and numerous motorbikes, plus a house that they own.

I do not.

Yet when i'm with them, i'm expected to pay more to enter a park which i have already paid for (in taxes)? I dont think so.

One solution is to get them to buy 9 Thai tickets, and just breeze past the goon on the gate. It's worked for me!

ratcatcher · April 4, 2008

Interesting thread. I think the posters to date have it covered.
In summary:

1) Vote with your feet - if you are offended, don't visit / use the facilities. A couple of months ago I visited Bangkok's Dream World theme park. Prices are clearly displayed - when Thai friend and I arrived, he was allowed to buy a ticket at the entry and I was told to 'go inside shop' to buy mine. Let's just say he demanded to speak with the Duty Manager and I was probably the only farang this year let in for Thai price.

2) Baht bus - get your Thai partner to pay and walk away. On the rate occasions I am allowed to visit Pattaya, I have great delight on walking away as my Thai pays the 'Thai price' for both of us. One baht bus driver lost 15 minutes of sales when he threatened me. We all waited while the Tourist Police arrived - they told him to stop cheating farangs.

3) Get your Thai partner to book your accommodation. The hotel we stay at Bangkok advertises double rooms at 750 baht a night. It's a clean but cheap hotel with a pool in Saphan Kwai. My Thai books a room at the Thai rate of 400 baht a night and they smile and are very polite when we both check in.

Peter

As peter991 has rightly stated, most posters have covered all angles of this debate. You do have a choice in matters of double pricing, you can refuse to pay, or accept that it's a part of a poorly thought out system.

A lot of politicians are deeply involved in businesses relating to tourism (hotels, resorts, restaurants etc) so don't expect too much legislated change.

There are many comparisons to be made between costs in Thailand, and those in the west, but when all is said and done, I believe it's much cheaper and in many ways, easier, to live here.

The one thing that I don't understand is the government's failure to consider that thousands of foreigners have made Thailand their home, have taken a Thai wife (regardless of her background) and in many cases they are supporting and helping the children of the Thai woman. (Largely due to the irresponsibilty of Thai males.

Surely this is something, which the government will not admit, that is a positive thing. (They never discuss it publicly anyway)

The broken families consisting of a Thai woman and her children ,who are often looked after by her grandparents upcountry , while she works in the hospitality industry in Bangkok, Pattaya, Hua Hin or the Islands, are in the tens of thousands.

It is for these foreigners that the two tier pricing system is a curse. However, I doubt that many residents of the Kingdom who have been here for more than 5 years are actually interested in most of the things that are two-tier priced.

The well-heeled businessman-expat here on a western salary really should not complain too loudly about this problem. It is mostly the farangs that live here on fixed incomes ,doing their best to support Thai families who would appreciate some recognition.

But I'm only dreaming.

Huey · April 4, 2008

Hey Guesthouse why not bring it back? I mean really, I for one would support it. And I bet I'm not alone here on this board. How many people here have some spare time on their hands that would be willing to help Guesthouse bring Fairpricethailand back online and do a service for the farang community to which we all are a part of???

slapout · April 4, 2008

One of the reasons I live in Thailand was up until fairly recently lawsuits of any kind, much less class action were not part of everyday discussion or news. It seems that this started about the time people started talking unfavorable too or about some politicians. Hate to see Thailand pick up more bad habits from abroad this one seems to be here to stay. I know where to expect double prices and if I am set against paying I do not go there. With the red neck community here you may ask for volunteers to put on white sheets, carry burning tourches and picket the places, I might leave the rope and firearms at home.

steveromagnino · April 4, 2008

The one thing that I don't understand is the government's failure to consider that thousands of foreigners have made Thailand their home, have taken a Thai wife (regardless of her background) and in many cases they are supporting and helping the children of the Thai woman. (Largely due to the irresponsibilty of Thai males.
Surely this is something, which the government will not admit, that is a positive thing. (They never discuss it publicly anyway)

The broken families consisting of a Thai woman and her children ,who are often looked after by her grandparents upcountry , while she works in the hospitality industry in Bangkok, Pattaya, Hua Hin or the Islands, are in the tens of thousands.

It is for these foreigners that the two tier pricing system is a curse. However, I doubt that many residents of the Kingdom who have been here for more than 5 years are actually interested in most of the things that are two-tier priced.

The well-heeled businessman-expat here on a western salary really should not complain too loudly about this problem. It is mostly the farangs that live here on fixed incomes ,doing their best to support Thai families who would appreciate some recognition.

Some might say that with comments that show EXACTLY what sort of echelon of Thai society you mix with (clearly hasn't gelled that a Thai man might marry a foreign woman), and the idea of Thai males being irresponsible driving your selfless behaviour (stepping in as the great white saviour), can you really be surprised why Thai people for the most part tolerate your money, but don't really feel the need to encourage you to hang around here any longer but subsidising your trips to a park?

Maybe the types of idiotic women getting knocked up without being married then having to marry a rich foreigner would do well to learn the value of keeping their legs closed...sadly this is not exactly a trait popular in the parts of Thailand with low incomes and education.

But ah well...let's talk about double pricing instead.

The well-heeled businessman is the one who is contributing genuine money to the Thai economy via tax. Please explain why, if someone should get a cheaper ticket somewhere, why it should not be him or her? The fixed income guys scraping along with limited means; it is increasingly clear they aren't welcome here and they aren't welcome most other parts of the world.

Life ain't fair. Most of you were lucky enough to be born with white skin; there are a ton of reasons why dual pricing doesn't make sense but to play the world's smallest violin about being a noble benefactor is one of the weaker reasons and certainly not a particularly redeeming one.

That is what some would say.

Curious how all farang think this is a farang issue; plenty of other non farangs get hit with the surcharge.

If you ask me; PR/Citzenship = Thai price. Otherwise...foreigner price. ALL FOREIGNERS. For certain attractions.

Maximum of 2X subsidy.

teacherofwoe · April 4, 2008

Racism is a word they don't like to use on this forum. I recently posted about a racist policeman. I had lots of replys from the politically correct. I then cut and pasted the dictionary definition of racism onto the thread but some genius decided it was offensive and deleted it. How the dictionary can be offensive I don't know.

Anyway, if you want to pay the same price as Thais when you go to places that have two tier pricing (displayed) then get a Thai driving licence. Mine has paid for itself many times.

Here's a story you might like:

My friend from the U.S got married to an Issan girl. We all had to go to Issan for the wedding;what a drag. I went into a store and asked the price of something (I spoke in Thai) and was told B800. The next day I sent my wife who's from Chiang Mai into the store and she was quoted B400. The day after that my friend's wife who is from Issan got a qoute for B200 which was eventually cut down to B180. So, even Thais can get screwed by other Thais.

burman · April 4, 2008

I never knew that website was yours GH. Did it have a black background? I think that's the double pricing site I remember.

GuestHouse · April 4, 2008

With the red neck community here you may ask for volunteers to put on white sheets, carry burning tourches and picket the places, I might leave the rope and firearms at home.

And what 'red neck community' is that pray tell?

PrBkkPr · April 4, 2008

One of the best manners to deal with this issue is to get the word around more and more in all you home countries so that more people would boycott coming to Thailand and also try to persuade more and more people from either investing here or even putting in their money in any funds with a vested commercial interest in Thailand, the more the words get around , the effects will start to follow and changes will have to happen. Also, all the foreigners should get more united in their causes.

burman · April 4, 2008

^ OTT and quite ineffective IMHO.

teacherofwoe · April 4, 2008

One of the best manners to deal with this issue is to get the word around more and more in all you home countries so that more people would boycott coming to Thailand and also try to persuade more and more people from either investing here or even putting in their money in any funds with a vested commercial interest in Thailand, the more the words get around , the effects will start to follow and changes will have to happen. Also, all the foreigners should get more united in their causes.

A romantic notion. Read the news threads about how tourists get beaten up, mugged, raped and murdered. What are our governments doing about this? I think potential visitors to LOS need to know these facts before two tier pricing.

But what happens when the tourists arrive as green as grass. "Ohhh, it's so cheap here, isn't it?" I went mental at my mum who was visiting. She had a hair cut and manicure which came to B200 or so. She gave them B700 because it cost more than that in England. I went crazy when she told me. There are thousands of green tourists that just reaffirm the notion that Thais have which is that we are sheep waiting to be sheered. "Money must grow on trees in the west".

mrtoad · April 4, 2008

didn't Guesthouse have a website where people could post about their experiences with this?

Yes he I did (FairpriceThailand), I ran the website for three years until I found work/home commitments left me with no time time to maintain the site - and answer queries.

A point of note, my website reported both double pricing and fair single pricing - and reported exclusion of people, for example the exclusion of Thais from businesses in Thailand.

The site did have some successes, a number of the international hotels in Bangkok removed racist pricing policies from their advertising

(What's a racist pricing policy? - One that discriminates on the basis of race/nationality and immigration status - If you don't agree with that you are not in agreement with the corporate offices of the hotels we approached).

I also had some interesting emails from people who used the site, a bag full of guys writing to tell me that they are willing to kiss @ss in Thailand and accept whatever treatment is dished out to them - and hence so should everyone else.

But also a lot of emails from people who expressed concern over this issue and thanks for being able to express their views.

---

One of the most compelling arguments I came across against official two tier pricing in these responses was from a foreign father who reported the following experience .

Living in Thailand with his Thai wife and son by their marriage, he worked in Thailand on a Thai wage, he and his wife both teachers. Their son was 9 years old, an age when boys idolize their fathers and and age too when they are perhaps their most impressionable.

The father was increasingly aware of the fact that their son was picking up on the fact that when buying goods and services, dad would wait outside, or around the corner while mum got the 'Thai price'. He decided this 'hiding' was not a good example to his son and so decided to no longer do so.

After making this decision and on entering a national park a conversation ensued with the staff of the park ticket office - His wife should pay the Bht 20 price because she was Thai, the father should pay Bht200 because he was a foreigner and the son should pay Bht100 because he was a half Thai and half foreign.

The father told how totally devastated he felt to witness his child being discriminated against in what is his own country, and how the treatment was so totally against his and his wife's efforts to raise their child as a Thai citizen in Thailand.

As the father noted this is a treatment indicative of attitudes towards mixed race children in Thailand and one that speaks of exclusion.

This is a compelling argument, and while the reported treatment may be unusual or extreme (or is it just one of many such discriminatory instances against mixed race children), it is nevertheless indicative of a problem that arises through official (Government sponsored) two tier pricing - That precise point of exclusion.

Foreigners are living in Thailand, they are raising their mixed race families in Thailand - This government sponsored policy (copied in wider society) is a statement of exclusion.

It may not matter to a visitor spending two weeks, two months or two years in Thailand, it may not matter to a single guy who can afford to pay the extra charge and who may or may not care how he is personally treated. But it does have an impact on mixed race families in Thailand and many of them do care about the policy and exactly how it effects the integration of their family into Thai society.

Thankyou Guesthose, that sums it up well for me, as my daughter is half Thai, half English.We made a decision for a number of reasons to relocate back to Thailand, and in general I'm happy we did, but I find it disgusting that any price decision is based on colour, which whatever way you slant the argument it is. For me it is Racism, and nothing less. We try to integrate and be part of the community, pay our taxes and continue to spend money in the local economy, to then be treated differently based on colour is disgusting. I have still yet to find similar rel examples of this type of double pricing in the UK, but hey why not have a reciprocal agreement .

JetsetBkk · April 4, 2008

One of the reasons I live in Thailand was up until fairly recently lawsuits of any kind, much less class action were not part of everyday discussion or news. It seems that this started about the time people started talking unfavorable to or about some politicians. Hate to see Thailand pick up more bad habits from abroad...

Yeah, quite agree . Much better if politicians can use their political power and chums to own monopoly businesses and then sell them off to another country for 73 Billion baht. Yeah, let's keep Thailand free of all that legal crap and charge the farang double.

[/sarcasm]

rgs2001uk · April 4, 2008