Actual Work Permit Processing Rules

[Indo-Siam]

At the Work Permit Office, there are 10 processing procedures, as follows (and I have no idea why procedures run up to #12, but procedures #8 and #9 no longer exist):

1) Application for work permit under Section 10 (Investment Promotion Act, Petroleum Act, Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand Act).

2) Application for a work permit under Section 7 (first time work permit, or new work permit after expiry of prior work permit)

3) Application for work permit under section 8 (employer applying for work permit before worker enters Thailand)

4) Issuance of work permit booklet.

5) Application for work permit renewal prior to expiration.

6) Application to replace a lost or damaged work permit

7) Application by worker to change locality of work or workplace

10) Application under Section 23 by employer to terminate employment, or change location of employment , or commence employment

11) Application underSection 7 for temporary work permit, for pertiod of not longer than 15 days, for person entering the Kingdom to perform urgent work.

12) Application under Section 14 for extension of work for people who originally obtained work pernit under procedure #1

Most readers of thsi board are mainly interested in Procedure #2 - initial entry permit for an alien.

Translated, the version of this procedure as picked up at Work Permit office on 14 October is as follows:

W.P. 2

QUALIFICATIONS OF AN APPLICANT

1. Having residence in the Kingdom or having permission to stay in the Kingdom temporarily under Immigration law ( only NON-IMMEGRANT VISA is acceptable)

2. Having a knowledge and/or skill to perform the work as stated in the application for a work permit.

3. Not being insane or mentally sick. Not suffering from leprosy, tuberculosis, drug addition, alcoholism and elephantiasis.

4. Never having been imprisoned for violation of the immigration law or Working of alien Act at least one year prior to the date of application.

DOCUMENT REQUIRED FOR WORK PERMIT

PLEASE CHECK ALL DOCUMENTS AND ARRANGE IN THE FOLLOWING ORDER BEFORE SUBMIT TO OFFICER.

1. Application form with 3 (5x6 cm.) recent photographs (taken within last 6 months)

2. A letter from company identifying the necessary to employ foreigner

3. Copy of applicant’s education certificate and job experienced record.

4. Medical Certificate showing that the applicant does not suffer from prohibited diseases, as identified by law (issued within last 6 months)

5. Passport and one copy of all pages or Certificate of Permanent Residence and Certificate of Alien with copy.

6. W.P. 10 Forms (Tor Thor 10) for notification of commencement of work, a Power of attorney made by the employer with 10 Baht duty stamp affixed and a copy of employer’s I.D. card.

7. Power of Attorney with 10 Baht duty stamp affixed and a copy of appointee’s I/D. card (if the applicant is unable to apply in person)

ONE OF THE FOLLOWING IYEMS IS REQUIRED FOR A PERMIT CONSIDERATION.

1.PRIVATE COMPANY

1.1 A copy of Company Registration with the objective and a copy of recent shareholders’ list( Updated within 6 months).

1.2 Copy of VAT Registration; from Phor Por 01 or Form Phor Por 20 identifying type of business and form Phor Por 09 if there is any change.

1.3 List of foreigner workers who work at this company identifying work permit number.

1.4 A copy of employer’s work permit in case of he /she is a foreigner. If the employer is not working in Thailand or has no work permit, Power attorney certified by Notary Public is needed.

1.5 Company engaging any business which a license from the relevant Authority is needed, for example: Factory License, Restaurant License, Liquor License, Cigarette License, Hotel License, Tourism License, Hospital License, Chemical Import License,

Etc.

2.PRIVATE SCHOOL, UNIVERSITY

2.1 The certificate letter from the office of the Private Education Commission ( Sho- Cho)/The certificate letter from Ministry of university affairs.

2.2 A copy of teacher license ( Sho-Cho11) and a copy of teacher placement license ( Sho-Cho18).

2.3 A copy of the license of the school establishment, a copy license of head teacher and license of school manager/A copy of the university establishment and A copy of the document shoe name of employer has the right for signing on the behalf of the university.

3.GOVERMENT ORGANISATION

3.1 A certificate from the government organization.

3.2 A letter Power of Attorney

4. ASSOCIATION, ORGANISATION, FOUNDATION.

4.1 License of association, organization, foundation establishment ( plus the list of signatory directors)

5 FILM PRODUCER FROM OVERSEAS

5.1 A letter of employment certified with stamp and signature , A Certificate from Tourism Department of Thailand, List of positions and identifying work permit number.

5.2 A copy of Company Registration (updated within last 6 months)

REMARK

1. One set copy of all documents for Chinese, Vietnamese, Laos, Cambodian, Myanmar, North Korean, Syrian, Ironies, Iraq, Albanians, Palestine, Saudi Arabian, Taiwanese, Hong Kong citizens, and Libyans, is needed.

2. Any documents in foreign language other than English must be translated into Thai and certified by an academic Thai native speaker. All forms have to be filled in Thai.

3. Every page of the documents belong to the company need to be certified by the authorized person or the appointee with company seal. Every page of the documents belong to applicant need to be certified by the applicant himself or the appointee.

That is the entire procedure. This is a marked departure from the previous version of this procedure, which spelled out in detail a number of sole qualifying criteria - including being married to a Thai, having paid 18,000 baht personal income tax in previous year, and having company bank statement showing 2,000,000 baht in account (in place of which they routinely accepted a simple signed form that included a statement that said you had 2,000,000 baht paid up capital).

Now - what is interesting is that - although they gave us this new Thai procedure sheet, the processing manager also told by staff person that - in practice - "nothing had changed in how they processed applications from one month, or three months ago - and they had no indication that anything would change in the coming months"

It is clear to me that the work permit office IS applying the NEWLY ENFORCED rule that for each foreign work permit isued, company must have 2,000,000 baht registered capital - and must sign the form that includes the "registered" amount listed on the line for "registered paid up capital". Before, the only requirement was that in order to sponsor any number of work permits, the company must have 2,000,000 baht registered capital - and must sign the form that includes the "registered" amount listed on the line for "registered paid up capital".

So - for any company with just one foreign work permit holder - this amounts to: effectively no change. It more seriously affects companies with multiple work permits. UNDER SPECIFIC QUESTIONING ABOUT A SPECFIC CASE, the processing manager conformed that the issue of six million baht for a company with three work permits would involve checking two things: does the company have 6,000,000 baht registered capital shown on the company registration printout, and does the "Form of the Employment Certification" sheet signed by the company director have 6,000,000 baht entered in the line "registered paid up capital". That's it. No actual supporting documentation required in relation to pay-in of capital, or actual current balances.

Personally, I would never sign an official Thai government document personally attesting to a fact that I knew was not true - to me, this represents an enormous risk. But - I have watched countless people sign that Employment Certification form when it was not a true representation of fcats - and they probably did not even know what they were doing - it was just one in a series of forms they were asked to sign. This is particularly true because at the point that a new company applies for a work permit for its Managing Director, it often does not yet even have a bank account - because the MD wants to have a work permit in order to legally exercise signature authority over that bank account - and until he has work permit, will not open account (or - at least will not transfer in millions of baht over which he cannot legaly have signature authority).

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[splitlid]

thanks steve,

i have a different problem.

i was due to goto penang to for my new visa.

i have currently stopped working but my company have kept on my work permit until i request that they cancel. my trip to langkawi was canceled but i have to goto Australia on tuesday for personal reasons.

now im british, have a non imm B and a work permit.

but i want the company to cancel the work permit so i can get a 1 year 3 month visa at the thai embassy in perth when i go back.\

How can i cancel my work permit in 1 day?

ie. monday so that i can get my new visa.

i understand that once the work permit is canceled then i have ten days to leave the country.

cheers

[Indo-Siam]

Well, this is simple - so long as you do NOT have a valid re-etry permit.

As long as you do NOT have a still valid re-entry permit, simply depart Thailand. In doing so, you will effectively cancel your extended entry permit.

Then go to Australia and obtain a fresh visa. I am unable to comment on how easy it is to obatin a one-year multiple-entry Thai visa at Perth Consulate, as a third-party national - or what documents you might need to bring from your present employer. But - if you physically carry your blue work permit booklet, I am quite certain that you can get a one-year multiple-entry visa.

Having a work permit certainly does not prevent you from obtianing a visa. In fact, presenting a work permit is the ONLY way to get a one-year multiple-entry visa at a Consulate such as Penang.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Steve

Indo-Siam

[splitlid]

cheers Steve,

i have a current non imm b that is valid until Jan next year.

this is what i want canceled with my w/p so i can apply for a new visa.

i know the embasssy in perth give them out as my parents got one and its not a retirement type either.

[sas_cars]

Thumbs UP Steve.Great Explanation.It means that the WP rules are easier than before for smaller companies whom just have 1 or 2 WP.There are no detailed qualiying things any more.But I think that it's an unwise step,coz It will make the 1 year multiple entry Non Immigrant visa holders to reduce their salary to an un taxable amount.Such as 10k or 15k Baht.As their is no qualifying WP salary any more i.e. Paying 18K tax par year.Any ways,cheers to all Non Immigrant Multi Entry holders But for me,I m not a Multi Entry Visa Holder.On an extended Permit.So nothing's changed for me

[Indo-Siam]

Previously, paying 18,000 baht in personal income tax was NOT a requirement - it was a SUFFICIENT condition to qualify, not a NECESSARY condition.

The same applied to being married to a Thai spouse - this was a SUFFICIENT criterion to qualify, but not a NECESSARY one.

The "default" qualifying criterion was working for a company with at least 2,000,000 baht cash in the bank - that's what the rule said, but - in practice - they accepted 2,000,000 baht in registered capital, plus a signed Employment Certification form showing 2,000,000 baht in "registered paid-in capital."

Now - based on what they said to my staff member - all the above criteria are STILL BEING USED in processing applications. They are NOT in the new written procedure, but they are still in effect. Or - at least - that is what my staff person thinks she heard.

For sure - they still require that the "Form of Employment Certification" be submitted, signed by a director - and that form is separate from the work permit application form (Form W.P. 2). It requires a very substantial amount of information - which they can use to make any number of interpretations about the suitability of a given application.

This form is the real killer. Here are some of the required entries:

(Applicant's) Highest education

(Applicant's) Job experience

(Applicant's) Marital status

(Applicant's) Evidence of paying personal tax

(Company's) Date of commercial registration

(Company's) Registration paid capital

(Company's) Number of Thai workers

(Company's) Number of foreign workers

(Company's) Income for recent year

(Company's) Tax paid each of last three years

(Company's) Value of export (recent year)

There are many more blanks. So - all these details must be reported - and they can base their decisions on whatever approval cut-offs are decided upon. It is NOT a case where you no longer have to give them the information.

If my staff is correct, they are presently using the old criteria - with the only change being with respect to each foreigner having to be justified by a separate 2,000,000 baht lump of registered capital.

The one "devil in the details" that is going to bite the inattentive is: if your company has only 2,000,000 baht in registered capital, but sponsors multiple entry permits now - the next time a work permit renewal application is submitted, it will be returned without action - they will tell you that you need to increase company's registered capital, to qualify to sponsor multiple permits. Here's the "kicker" - they know that legally raising registered capital requires votes in two successive shareholders meetings, some weeks apart (possibly 30 days apart) - so they note that you may not return to renew the permit until at least that amount of time has passed. I am not yet certain how they handle this for about-to-expire permits - perhaps give just a 45 day interim extension?

We rarely get involved with companies that sponsor multiple work permits - maybe Sunbelt or someone else can address this point. But - they made it with my processing manager, in relation to a change in work location for a company with three work permits, and only 2,000,000 baht regstertered capital - company must increase registered capital to 6,000,000 baht - and do not return with form to request that location chnage until enough time has passed to legally have allowed two successive shareholder's meetings AFTER THE DATE OF THIS CONVERSATION (evidently realizing that the improper way to do this would be to just fabricate an initial meeting 29 days earlier, and then hold the confirming meeting today). Small point - but I know this will catch people - if they continue to operate this way.

So - everyone in this position - document a shareholer's meeting to raise capitalization NOW, so that when you need to execute that increase, you can document immediately that shareholders held the subsequent meeting to confirm that decision.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Sunbelt Asia]

Thanks Steve.

ONE OF THE FOLLOWING IYEMS IS REQUIRED FOR A PERMIT CONSIDERATION.

1.PRIVATE COMPANY

1.1 A copy of Company Registration with the objective and a copy of recent shareholders’ list( Updated within 6 months).

1.2 Copy of VAT Registration; from Phor Por 01 or Form Phor Por 20 identifying type of business and form Phor Por 09 if there is any change.

1.3 List of foreigner workers who work at this company identifying work permit number.

1.4 A copy of employer’s work permit in case of he /she is a foreigner. If the employer is not working in Thailand or has no work permit, Power attorney certified by Notary Public is needed.

1.5 Company engaging any business which a license from the relevant Authority is needed, for example: Factory License, Restaurant License, Liquor License, Cigarette License, Hotel License, Tourism License, Hospital License, Chemical Import License,

Etc.

To be more clear, the Labor Department should state ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS

We rarely get involved with companies that sponsor multiple work permits - maybe Sunbelt or someone else can address this point. But - they made it with my processing manager, in relation to a change in work location for a company with three work permits, and only 2,000,000 baht regstertered capital - company must increase registered capital to 6,000,000 baht - and do not return with form to request that location chnage until enough time has passed to legally have allowed two successive shareholder's meetings AFTER THE DATE OF THIS CONVERSATION (evidently realizing that the improper way to do this would be to just fabricate an initial meeting 29 days earlier, and then hold the confirming meeting today).

Correct two meetings must take place, 14 days apart. However, the lawyers are saying you can apply right after the second meeting and after they have increase the capital, so around 18 days.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[opalhort]

Well, this is simple - so long as you do NOT have a valid re-etry permit.

As long as you do NOT have a still valid re-entry permit, simply depart Thailand.  In doing so, you will effectively cancel your extended entry permit.

.............(snip)........

But - if you physically carry your blue work permit booklet, I am quite certain that you can get a one-year multiple-entry visa.

...........

Hi Steve,

Of course you are correct with your advise, but the point to carry the blue book out of LOS without a re-entry permit may be considered illegal.

It is my understanding that once you leave the country without a valid re-entry permit, or having applied for WP extension prior to depature (in which case you would have a receipt but the WP book would be retained by the labour department), your WP becomes invalid upon exit.

Is this true or not?

If this is true, it would mean you submit an invalid WP to the Consulate in order to obtain a new visa.

Can you please shed some light on this?

Thanks

opalhort

[Indo-Siam]

I am quite sure that using a work permit to obtain a one-year multiple-entry visa when you know that the work permit will be cancelled shortly after your return to Thailand is technically not acceptable - but there is no mechanism to "catch" such instances.

When you leave Thailand without a reentry permit, your entry permit is cancelled - many an inattentive person has learned this the hard way. As far as I know, this has no bearing whatsoever on validity of your work pemit - so long as you reenter Thailand with a non-immigrant visa.

The fact that you are without a valid entry permit while you are OUTSIDE Thailand is irrevelevant - the entry permit (or lack thereof) is meaningless when you are outside the country. As long as you have a valid entry permit at all times that you are INSIDE Thailand, your work permit remains valid. And - it does NOT have to be the same entry permit.

That is my understanding, although I have not seen the applicable Thai law.

Practically - I have been personally involved with cases where someone with a work permit carelessly allowed their entry permit to expire - while their work permit still had valid time left on it - and left Thailand to get a fresh entry permit - and then used the fresh entry permit to renew the work permit. This was accepted routinely at work permit office.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[opalhort]

I am quite sure that using a work permit to obtain a one-year multiple-entry visa when you know that the work permit will be cancelled shortly after your return to Thailand is technically not acceptable - but there is no mechanism to "catch" such instances.

When you leave Thailand without a reentry permit, your entry permit is cancelled - many an inattentive person has learned this the hard way.  As far as I know, this has no bearing whatsoever on validity of your work pemit - so long as you reenter Thailand with a non-immigrant visa.

The fact that you are without a valid entry permit while you are OUTSIDE Thailand is irrevelevant - the entry permit (or lack thereof) is meaningless when you are outside the country.  As long as you have a valid entry permit at all times that you are INSIDE Thailand, your work permit remains valid.  And - it does NOT have to be the same entry permit.

That is my understanding, although I have not seen the applicable Thai law.

Practically - I have been personally involved with cases where someone with a  work permit carelessly allowed their entry permit to expire - while their work permit still had valid time left on it - and left Thailand to get a fresh entry permit - and then used the fresh entry permit to renew the work permit.  This was accepted routinely at work permit office.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

OK Steve,

I stand corrected.

You have more experience about this matter than I have.

I guess this case falls into the 'grey' area of the law - not clearly defined (as usual here in LOS).

I always thought that if your WP is tied to the entry permit (as is the case with a Non-Imm-B visa), the WP is invalidated the day your entry permit does become invalid (by due date or exit w/o re-entry permit).

If a consulate or embassy is very tough, they may well check the details and reject a new visa application based on a 'technically' expired WP. Unlikely but possible.

Regards

opalhort

[Indo-Siam]

Hi -

Your observations are correct - in relation to an EXPIRING entry permit. I think the distinction here is that a work permit will never be valid beyond the expiration date of the entry permit used to obtain the work permit. So - if the entry permit expires, the work permit does also.

The two cases I was involved with both centered on individuals who had obtained long-term entry permit extensions, and then matching work permits, and had then left the country without a reentry permit - one due to ignorance/negligence, the other due to responding to a family emergency.

Departing without a reentry permt means your entry permit is dead. But not your work permit. One of these individuals returned with a still valid underlying visa, and obtained a fresh non-immigrant entry permit - and come work permit expiration point, simply renewed the work permit (I think for about seven weeks) - and then went through a typical back-and-forth EP/WP extension sequence. Neither WP office nor Immigration showed any interest in the lapsed period when he was outside Thailand.

What I do not know is whether this brief (8 day?) lapse would invalidate his "countdown clock" for qualifying to apply for permanent residency - it very well might.

The other (ignorant) one no longer had a valid visa, and thus received only a 30 day walk-on entry permit when he stumbled back. Before he reached us, he had simply done a couple of 30 day border turns. His work permit remained valid (although it probably should have been cancelled) - and we advised him to get a non-immigrant visa (which he did), and we took him in and renewed his work permit on that basis. He then vanished on us - so I do not know the rest of that story (I heard that he soon lost his job). I can easily imagine that he may have had some serious problems at Immigration - extending that entry permit - but he had no problem with work permit office. Their processing rulebook does not seem to have a "routine" for searching out interim lapses in entry permits, during WP periods (because they know that you at one point HAD an entry permit that was valid for at least as long as the WP was valid).

We have always found the work permit office to be very cooperative and helpful - which is not something I can say about some people at Immigration (although many officials there are very nice - and the prercentages of "nice" ones seem to be increasing over time).

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[sas_cars]

Steve,One thing I would like to ask,I know it has been answered many times here.But you never saw your post on it.

The question is,If we are on a Non-B extended permit which is valid until say 1 Aug 2005,If we leave the job just around Nov.2004,and return our work permit.DO WE HAVE TO GO AND CANCEL OUR EXTENDTED ENTRY PERMIT STAMP?What If we don't do it?and in the mean time,find a new job.It's a really long time left.As far as I know,Labour Department and Immigration are 2 different government offices.If in the mean time,We find a new job before our entry permit expires and extend the entry permit on the basis of new job.I don't think there's going to be any necessity to go and cancel our extended permit as the labour department is not going to send any letter to immigration to let them know that This person has resigned from the job and his extended permit should be cancelled.