Surely Dowry Is Tradition?

[dutchguest]

Hallo,

I think this article gives a good overview of the situation concerning the dowry in Thailand:

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=1650

When you read this citation from the article:

“So why is the Thai dowry paid to the woman whereas the rest of world does it, or did it, differently?” I asked him, sitting atop a stool in a room stacked full of books and newspapers. Speaking English impeccably well he replied, “Land in Thailand is usually taken care of by the woman, or inherited by the woman. It is usual for the man to move in with her family after marriage, whereas in Western and Chinese cultures the woman will move in with the man and he will take care of her and the land. She will pay to be part of his wealth and his family status. Thailand is the opposite.

it also gives answer why in Thailand the dowry is paid to the girls family while most other countries to the boys family. In India, China and Vietnam a.o. there are more boys then girls because many girls are killed before or after their birth because girls only cost money and they leave the family anyhow.

In Thailand girls are more important, it is traditionally a more matriarchal/matrilinear society.

[Moonrakers]

Despite my Wife being an orphan when we where married, her mother, who was still alive when we became engaged asked for and wanted nothing (And no, she was not aware of her up-coming death at the time).

A couple of years afterwards we where up-country to visit some of my wifes distant relatives. Whilst there some chap whom I had never met before and whom my wife didn't even know the name of decided that considering my wife had no living parents then I should pay him a sin sod of around 1 mil............ JOG ON I told him.

The fact that he addressed me as 'farang' as opposed to my real name did not help his already flimsy case.

That, however was clearly a case of an individual(s) trying to take advantage of me rather than using the sin sod tradition as it was meant to be used.

[elektrified]

I gladly paid 1,000,000 baht to my wife's family of which 500,000 was returned.

No criticism whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to do as they wish. But when I read things like this I am shocked!

[Maigo6]

No criticism whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to do as they wish. But when I read things like this I am shocked!

Is it the Sin Sot or the ammount of Sin Sot that shocks or even elektrifies you ?

[elektrified]

No criticism whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to do as they wish. But when I read things like this I am shocked!

Is it the Sin Sot or the ammount of Sin Sot that shocks or even elektrifies you ?

The amount. I respect the culture and would not have a problem paying something.

[Thee_Rak]

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

hel_l... 100K THB a month is 1/2 what I make in the US working for one of the "Big 3"

I thought the "avg" Thai earned about twice that IN A YEAR?

[Thee_Rak]

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

Well, since they don't hang around Sukhumvit and don't have anything to do with the tourist industry, you probably have never seen "normal" middle class Thais.

TH

ain't that the truth.

Nice, unjustified attack on character by a poster (against the rules) and cheered on by the admin.

Really do expect more out of the "admins" That was quite a rude thing to say about someone...

[Heng]

Among normal Thais:

Dowry not returned = abnormal.

Dowry for show (like an engagement ring, lots of flowers, a nice hotel ballroom, etc. etc.) = normal.

[medoraman]

Among normal Thais:

Dowry not returned = abnormal.

Dowry for show (like an engagement ring, lots of flowers, a nice hotel ballroom, etc. etc.) = normal.

I agree completely. I was just in a wedding last month in Chiang Mai, and the dowry was considerable. At least 2 million baht cash, and probably as much in gold. I am sure the vast majority if not all of it was returned. This was a wedding between two young Thais from (apparently better off than I knew) families.

In many ways Thailand reminds me of the middle east, where it is the public presentation that is important, not the real actions. It all relates to their idea of "face". Yes, I imagine that some families use this tradition to scam stupid farangs, but you should not prevent that from completely refusing to pay sin sod. A farang should just be smart, evaluate in what context it is asked for, and make a sound judgment. I have not discussed sin sod yet, but I would have no problem paying 500k or 1 million baht if most returned. My gf is highly educated, pretty, young, and from a good family. I will pay what the "going rate" is. You are marrying a Thai, you need to respect what is important to her, as well as yourself.

[ray08]

When i was married , bought my wife a nice engagement ring had a party , and 6 months latter we were married and the wedding party ,no Dowry , Why because we are both Non-Thai

My point for what its worth is that the Foreign man will usually be Non Thai Citizen and with very little hope of being one, and non Buddist from a western country.

Even though he is getting married in Thailand , Why should he follow the Thai tradition being himself a Non Thai and with very little chance of ever becoming one and always known as "the ferang" in fact i think it would after marriage the thai wife have more chance of taking up her husbands citizenship if they move to his country.

Love your wife and respect her for sure ,but why follow a tradition which is not yours, and being a tradition of giving money to the in-laws ,worse again , remember in most western traditions the parents of both actually pay for the wedding ,

Now there is a nice compromise if somebody feels the need to follow tradition

[bratpack]

We do what we feel is right.I would not marry any woman if i have to pay for her based on certain type,and how much she is worth to her family.that stinks to me.I have a gf for 4 years and would stay single before paying.However my gf said her mum would not need me to pay as her 2 sons earn enough money in the building trade and she owns some land with rice.Some listen too much with tradition,and some are downright showoffs.

[richard_smith237]

There are a large number of sceptics on this forum, some I feel have been tainted towards bitterness and paranoia that everyone is out to take advantage of them. This just leaves me wondering to what extent have many westerners infiltrated or witnessed a negative side of Thailand in financially more desperate circles.

I do not know any of my Thai friends who have not paid Sin-sod. Amounts have ranged from 100,000 to 1MB, and I believe I am correct in thinking that all of the money was returned.

Although we have no plans to marry as yet, the topic of sin-sod has come up between my girlfriend and I. She has no idea what her father would expect. As I understand it, the negotiation process is something that will be left between father and potential son in law. Also as I understand it the discussion is a negotiation. Negotiate too hard and it’s an insult, be too much of a push over and I look weak. And again, as I understand it there is a balance to be achieved that will earn respect while maintaining the good face of her family for all to see come the wedding day.

I would expect to be asked for something in the region of 1 MB and would negotiate based on a value of what my Thai friends agreed upon with their future in-laws of a similar-socio economic background to my girlfriend. I would expect to receive all of this back after the wedding. My girlfriend tells me that because of her family it’s likely that approximately 3000 people would be invited (which to me seems ridiculous but I’ve seen this already at weddings of friends of ours), I’m also told that due to the numbers of people going it’s likely that we’d make a profit above the cost of the event; the profit coming from the donations people put in those little envelopes.

In all of my experience in Thailand I have not known my Friends (Thai and western) to be out pocket from giving sin-sod. They enjoy marriages arguably more successful than some of my friends in the West.

This is understandable as my friends have met ladies of similar standing, with similar education and of a similar age. In the case of my western friends, the parents of the wife to be may initially not have been over the moon with excitement at the prospect of their daughter dating and marrying a western man. I understand their concerns when I drive down Sukhumvit road. However, I believe these concerns to be natural and given time not prohibitive to the developing relationship once they have had chance to observe the character of the gentleman their daughter has chosen to date. I believe that once these concerns have been dealt with and a mutual respect has developed the issue of sin-sod is no longer an issue, it’s has become a part of the formalities respected by both parties.

A forum such as this invites open comments from many countries, cultures and walks of life. The only common ground is Thailand and as such opinions vary massively, and naturally so, but so does judgement.

It is the judgement I question when people are complaining about paying sin-sod to a family whom they view with scepticism and have no respect or trust for.

[Heng]

I do not know any of my Thai friends who have not paid Sin-sod. Amounts have ranged from 100,000 to 1MB, and I believe I am correct in thinking that all of the money was returned.

Surely having it returned cancels out the term "paid" ?

While I said it was the norm to have it returned among Thais, I should say that there are plenty of cases among Thais where it is not returned... often among the poorest of Thais and of course among Thais where the bride's family -more often than not bride included...despite the usual "oh my evil family" type protests- has ill intent (farangs certainly don't have a monopoly on marrying into such families).

[a2396]

I do not know any of my Thai friends who have not paid Sin-sod. Amounts have ranged from 100,000 to 1MB, and I believe I am correct in thinking that all of the money was returned.

Surely having it returned cancels out the term "paid" ?

While I said it was the norm to have it returned among Thais, I should say that there are plenty of cases among Thais where it is not returned... often among the poorest of Thais and of course among Thais where the bride's family -more often than not bride included...despite the usual "oh my evil family" type protests- has ill intent (farangs certainly don't have a monopoly on marrying into such families).

Thai to Thai is one ball game and the Thai to Farang marriage game is another. The rules of the game are not the same, as in the case with other social/dating relationships.

[bratpack]

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

Well, since they don't hang around Sukhumvit and don't have anything to do with the tourist industry, you probably have never seen "normal" middle class Thais.

TH

ain't that the truth.

So you do not have thai travel guides in bk then hehehehehehehe.Very funny post.Many middle class tourist guides who will jump in bed with you in a few minutes and try to get you to buy them expensive clothes because they not bar girls.Give it a rest and stop sticking up for them.