Terrible, Dangerous Driving On Dangerous Road.

[Richb2004v2]

We went to Koh Chang for the weekend and had a great time. However I was amazed at the driving on the island. This is probably one of the most re-hashed subject on TV but I can’t help bringing it up again. The steep and winding road on Koh Chang is notoriously dangerous. As far as I know there are many accidents every year. For this reason I would expect folk to drive with extra care. This may be a little naïve of me. Around 8:30 in the evening whilst negotiating the down hill bends with another car in front of us we were overtaken by one of the Dive centre pick up trucks. I'm not sure that I have ever seen a more dangerous maneuver in my life. We were at a very sharp bend with no way of seeing around it. There could so easily have been another vehicle coming the other way. I couldn’t help thinking that if a holiday maker had been coming the other way on a scooter what the result would have been. Whilst this was the worst incident we saw we did see the usual overtaking dangerously and unnecessarily on other stretches of road.

This is an old subject, and there is nothing that we can do about it, but I just wondered what the accident rate was for Koh Chang and how many unfortunate folk have been killed there due to such idiotic actions as this?

[toptuan]

Don't know the accident rate for Ko Chang specifically, but previous threads on the subject of accidents have revealed that Thailand's traffic fatality rate is about four times higher than the USA (per capita). Not too encouraging.

To quote another TV member: "It's as if the 'risk-factor' computer chip is missing from their brains."

[wilko]

You were probably driving so slowly that the other driver lost patience and carried out this dangerous maneuver.

There IS plenty you can do to minimise your own risk when driving anywhere in Thailand and that is to learn to read the road AND other users.....don't expect them to drive like they do in your home country....they don't.

the US rate is nothing to be proud of either

Edited June 2, 2008 by wilko

[kloghead]

"You were probably driving so slowly that the other driver lost patience and carried out this dangerous maneuver."

Maybe...but I'll bet money you didn't hear him honk his horn. He wasn't honkin' at you, he was waiting for a reply honk which would tell him there was another vehicle approaching from the other direction. The locals have it wired and when you hear 'em get on their horns...JOIN IN!!!

Of course this doesn't excuse their dangerous driving behavior

[Richb2004v2]

You were probably driving so slowly that the other driver lost patience and carried out this dangerous maneuver.

There IS plenty you can do to minimise your own risk when driving anywhere in Thailand and that is to learn to read the road AND other users.....don't expect them to drive like they do in your home country....they don't.

the US rate is nothing to be proud of either

He didn’t honk his horn, flash his lights or anything else. I certainly was not going too slow either. It was on an extremely tight hair pin bend and regardless of speed it is not a spot to use to overtake, even in an emergency. I fail to see how you can read the road when you can’t see it ahead of you. Even if you have used the road 1000 times it doesn’t give you the ability to see around corners. Just because it’s the norm to drive this way in Thailand does not make it right or safe.

[wilko]

You sound like my Aunt - who was probably the worst driver in the world.

[toptuan]

You sound like my Aunt - who was probably the worst driver in the world.

You're being a bit harsh, and judgmental, Wilko.

We all know that driving on Thai roads is a death-defying adventure in Russian Roulette. Just last week in our area, a fully-loaded bus overtook a vehicle on a hairpin turn/blind corner, completely wiping an oncoming pick-up off the road with its occupants, and overturning the bus. Multiple fatalities. 50%-75% of my trips to Bangkok result in seeing a crashed bus on the side of the road.

I've seen more brinkmanship-driving and road fatalities in 5 years driving in Thailand than I saw in all my previous 38 years of driving in the West. The roads are full of irrational dare-devils and driving here is not for the faint-of-heart!

[wilko]

No I'm not....I merely said the poster SOUNDED like my Aunt. - I did not say they were a bad driver, which I presume is why you think this is harsh.

However, I have noticed as a professional driver that those who complain most about others driving are those who are taken by surprise by strange or unusual driving by others, this is often a syptom that drivers lack of driving skills

[Richb2004v2]

No I'm not....I merely said the poster SOUNDED like my Aunt. - I did not say they were a bad driver, which I presume is why you think this is harsh.

However, I have noticed as a professional driver that those who complain most about others driving are those who are taken by surprise by strange or unusual driving by others, this is often a syptom that drivers lack of driving skills

By professional driver I take it you mean a taxi driver or or lorry driver, surely not an instructor of some sort. Still, some people will make excuses against any critisism of anything Thai all day long.

[kloghead]

You were probably driving so slowly that the other driver lost patience and carried out this dangerous maneuver.

There IS plenty you can do to minimise your own risk when driving anywhere in Thailand and that is to learn to read the road AND other users.....don't expect them to drive like they do in your home country....they don't.

the US rate is nothing to be proud of either

He didn't honk his horn, flash his lights or anything else. I certainly was not going too slow either. It was on an extremely tight hair pin bend and regardless of speed it is not a spot to use to overtake, even in an emergency. I fail to see how you can read the road when you can't see it ahead of you. Even if you have used the road 1000 times it doesn't give you the ability to see around corners. Just because it's the norm to drive this way in Thailand does not make it right or safe.

You totally missed my point. No, you can't ususally see around corners. But you can "HEAR" around them...hence the use of horns. There are rarely any accidents on the twisty bits between White Sands and Klong Son because we use this method. Very handy when gettin 'round the cement trucks

[wilko]

No I'm not....I merely said the poster SOUNDED like my Aunt. - I did not say they were a bad driver, which I presume is why you think this is harsh.

However, I have noticed as a professional driver that those who complain most about others driving are those who are taken by surprise by strange or unusual driving by others, this is often a syptom that drivers lack of driving skills

By professional driver I take it you mean a taxi driver or or lorry driver, surely not an instructor of some sort. Still, some people will make excuses against any critisism of anything Thai all day long.

No I don't and no I don't!

[Tony Clifton]

I don`t remember my driving instructor suggesting driving dangerously around steep and winding roads by using a method similar to the one bats use to fly around obstacles.

[wilko]

You sound like my Aunt - who was probably the worst driver in the world.

You're being a bit harsh, and judgmental, Wilko.

We all know that driving on Thai roads is a death-defying adventure in Russian Roulette. Just last week in our area, a fully-loaded bus overtook a vehicle on a hairpin turn/blind corner, completely wiping an oncoming pick-up off the road with its occupants, and overturning the bus. Multiple fatalities. 50%-75% of my trips to Bangkok result in seeing a crashed bus on the side of the road.

I've seen more brinkmanship-driving and road fatalities in 5 years driving in Thailand than I saw in all my previous 38 years of driving in the West. The roads are full of irrational dare-devils and driving here is not for the faint-of-heart!

I take issue with this...on ANY road in the world the best driver can be taken out in a flash......BUT - I don't regard driving in Thailand as death-defying...and yes I DO see some astoundingly poor even inexplicable driving here....but that's what you expect EVERYWHERE not just Thailand...and that's how one should drive - expecting the worst.You also take into account you environment etc etc.....driving in Thailand WILL change but at present it's not the best or the worst in the world and any driver worth their saly should be able to cope with day-to-day driving here...or get a chauffeur!

[Richb2004v2]

You sound like my Aunt - who was probably the worst driver in the world.

You're being a bit harsh, and judgmental, Wilko.

We all know that driving on Thai roads is a death-defying adventure in Russian Roulette. Just last week in our area, a fully-loaded bus overtook a vehicle on a hairpin turn/blind corner, completely wiping an oncoming pick-up off the road with its occupants, and overturning the bus. Multiple fatalities. 50%-75% of my trips to Bangkok result in seeing a crashed bus on the side of the road.

I've seen more brinkmanship-driving and road fatalities in 5 years driving in Thailand than I saw in all my previous 38 years of driving in the West. The roads are full of irrational dare-devils and driving here is not for the faint-of-heart!

I take issue with this...on ANY road in the world the best driver can be taken out in a flash......BUT - I don't regard driving in Thailand as death-defying...and yes I DO see some astoundingly poor even inexplicable driving here....but that's what you expect EVERYWHERE not just Thailand...and that's how one should drive - expecting the worst.You also take into account you environment etc etc.....driving in Thailand WILL change but at present it's not the best or the worst in the world and any driver worth their saly should be able to cope with day-to-day driving here...or get a chauffeur!

So we need to drive with this philosophy in mind then i.e. expect the unexpected. So, when driving up a steep and winding road, unable to see around corners, what do you suggest we do? I guess the only option is not to drive on this road at all, as there will, according to your driving technique and suggestion, be a chance that another driver may see fit to drive on the wrong side of the road around the corner and straight in to you. The options are either to go over the side of the cliff to avoid the collision or……well, not to be there in the first place. If you happen to be on a motor cycle you may have a better chance to avoid the oncoming driver but at the same time you will also have a much better chance of being killed. What happens in your system if someone coming up the hill decides the driver in front is going too slow and decided to overtake on the blind bend too? There are then cars in both lanes heading towards each other with nowhere to go. Or does your system work on probability that this is very unlikely to happen? I guess that to you this is a perfectly acceptable system and at least as good as any other. I always find the logic of the ‘Thai wannabe’ quite incredible.

[wilko]

You sound like my Aunt - who was probably the worst driver in the world.

You're being a bit harsh, and judgmental, Wilko.

We all know that driving on Thai roads is a death-defying adventure in Russian Roulette. Just last week in our area, a fully-loaded bus overtook a vehicle on a hairpin turn/blind corner, completely wiping an oncoming pick-up off the road with its occupants, and overturning the bus. Multiple fatalities. 50%-75% of my trips to Bangkok result in seeing a crashed bus on the side of the road.

I've seen more brinkmanship-driving and road fatalities in 5 years driving in Thailand than I saw in all my previous 38 years of driving in the West. The roads are full of irrational dare-devils and driving here is not for the faint-of-heart!

I take issue with this...on ANY road in the world the best driver can be taken out in a flash......BUT - I don't regard driving in Thailand as death-defying...and yes I DO see some astoundingly poor even inexplicable driving here....but that's what you expect EVERYWHERE not just Thailand...and that's how one should drive - expecting the worst.You also take into account you environment etc etc.....driving in Thailand WILL change but at present it's not the best or the worst in the world and any driver worth their saly should be able to cope with day-to-day driving here...or get a chauffeur!

So we need to drive with this philosophy in mind then i.e. expect the unexpected. So, when driving up a steep and winding road, unable to see around corners, what do you suggest we do? I guess the only option is not to drive on this road at all, as there will, according to your driving technique and suggestion, be a chance that another driver may see fit to drive on the wrong side of the road around the corner and straight in to you. The options are either to go over the side of the cliff to avoid the collision or……well, not to be there in the first place. If you happen to be on a motor cycle you may have a better chance to avoid the oncoming driver but at the same time you will also have a much better chance of being killed. What happens in your system if someone coming up the hill decides the driver in front is going too slow and decided to overtake on the blind bend too? There are then cars in both lanes heading towards each other with nowhere to go. Or does your system work on probability that this is very unlikely to happen? I guess that to you this is a perfectly acceptable system and at least as good as any other. I always find the logic of the ‘Thai wannabe’ quite incredible.

the fact that you are trying to define and restrict how you drive rather re-enforces my suspicions about people's driving skills....none of what you say is relevant and a lot of it is a non-sequitur.....finding something incredible does not mean it won't happen.

As I said I could go out and get killed on the road tomorrow, but if you are the kind of person who is continually surprised/shocked by this kind of driving, I suspect you are not adapting to your driving environment very well.

in the end we are talking risk limitation here by one's own driving skills.....you can do little about the others (directly)......what would you DO about the incident above?

Edited June 4, 2008 by wilko

[hanibal7]

I am beginnning to think some of these crazy posts are thai trained farang drivers.

honking horn-what crap.

1/ newbies that dont know

2/ car/motorbike that the horn is broke

3/ card driver with music on

4/

car driver with hands free mobile

anybody else know more.

so you die if you dont know how a farang thinks in kho chang,sounds a little bit dangerous to me.no driving expertise will allow for something that stupid.

Edited June 4, 2008 by hanibal7

[wilko]

A quick coupe of questions........Does KC has a high accident rate? If so why do you think this is so?

[kloghead]

I am beginnning to think some of these crazy posts are thai trained farang drivers.

honking horn-what crap.

1/ newbies that dont know

2/ car/motorbike that the horn is broke

3/ card driver with music on

4/

car driver with hands free mobile

anybody else know more.

so you die if you dont know how a farang thinks in kho chang,sounds a little bit dangerous to me.no driving expertise will allow for something that stupid.

It's obvious you guys (except wilko) can't grasp the concept. The proof is in the pudding. Why don't you come here and check it out?

Hey, it works for us

Edited June 4, 2008 by kloghead

[Richb2004v2]

I am beginnning to think some of these crazy posts are thai trained farang drivers.

honking horn-what crap.

1/ newbies that dont know

2/ car/motorbike that the horn is broke

3/ card driver with music on

4/

car driver with hands free mobile

anybody else know more.

so you die if you dont know how a farang thinks in kho chang,sounds a little bit dangerous to me.no driving expertise will allow for something that stupid.

It's obvious you guys (except wilko) can't grasp the concept. The proof is in the pudding. Why don't you come here and check it out?

Hey, it works for us

Theres nothing like creating a new driving system. Whats wrong with patience, consideration and common sense? I wonder when the rest of the world will catch up with Koh Chang and start using the 'horn honking' system? Its strange that the parts of the world that have yet to implement the 'Horn honking' system have lower accident rates. After the 'Horn honking' system do we then implement the 'talking on mobile phone whilst drunk with no lights on' system?

[kloghead]

No Way

We only honk AFTER we implement the 'talking on mobile phone whilst drunk with no lights on' system...

[wilko]

People a STILL trying to catagorise what they might encounter....if you drive like that anywhere in the world you will have problems

[wilko]

People a STILL trying to catagorise what they might encounter....if you drive like that anywhere in the world you will have problems

[mr_hippo]

So we need to drive with this philosophy in mind then i.e. expect the unexpected.

That is how I was taught over 40 years ago! How were you taught - "I have the right of way"? Please remember that you are the only sane driver on the road and the others are all lunatics! Learn to read the road, be aware of what may happen.

[wilko]

So we need to drive with this philosophy in mind then i.e. expect the unexpected.

That is how I was taught over 40 years ago! How were you taught - "I have the right of way"? Please remember that you are the only sane driver on the road and the others are all lunatics! Learn to read the road, be aware of what may happen.

Hear!

Hear!

Especially the bit about reading the road.....

[sweetchariot]

Theres nothing like creating a new driving system. Whats wrong with patience, consideration and common sense? I wonder when the rest of the world will catch up with Koh Chang and start using the 'horn honking' system? Its strange that the parts of the world that have yet to implement the 'Horn honking' system have lower accident rates. After the 'Horn honking' system do we then implement the 'talking on mobile phone whilst drunk with no lights on' system?

Coming from a small village in the UK countryside, we were surrounded by narrow single track lanes with high hedgrows, and that is exactly what everyone used to do, day in, day out, since the motorcar was invented.

Don't see anything new here, unless common sense is a new concept to you.

[VocalNeal]

Sorry i'm a bit late on this.

Rich I'm with you "When in Rome...."

On Horns.

Indian trucks have two mudflaps. One says Horn the other Please. Sometimes it is just written on the

truck

Enough said.

Indonesians use the horn all the time. Indonesian trucks drive with right turn signal on if road ahead is not clear of oncoming traffic.

Thais "upcountry" honk when passing Wats, honk at animals, motorcyclists etc al.

I must admit to having contrary experience with trucks, they honk back if the road is clear usually accompanied by flashing left turn signal.

To any non honkers out there try it. If a truck moves over to let you pass honk as you go by, you will be answered.

BTW flashed headlights in Asia mean the opposite of in Western countries. In Thailand as in Indonesia he who flashes first has the right-of-way!!