Crackdown On Bangkok Prostitutes

[GoodHeart]

Recent research indicates that over one million women in the United States earn their living by full-time prostitution.

According to current evidence, roughly half of the street prostitutes in Washington, D.C., and New York City are HIV-positive. In Newark, New Jersey, the estimate is that close to 60% of all prostitutes carry the AIDS virus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seriously doubt your statistics are valid. If they are you would be happy to share the source URL's, would you not?

What 'recent research'? What 'current evidence'?

[PvtDick]

Stop taking advantage of poorer people just because you were lucky enough to be born in a wealthier country, In a few words: GET A LIFE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't like sex tourists any more than you do, but I get the feeling the "taking advantage" is a two-way street.

Do people who come to Thailand for plastic surgery because it's cheaper here take advantage of the doctors? Do people who come to Thailand to have suits made take advantage of the tailors?

No...it's a two-way street. Supply meets demand. Everybody happy na!

[Tippaporn]

I'm a male young farung with two masters and I can afford what ever I want, honestly and all.

That's a very intelligent comment U made... Wow! I'm impressed! BTW, I don't want prostitution banning, this is against democracy. I'm just saying: DON'T COME TO THAILAND FOR SEX! Stop taking advantage of poorer people just because you were lucky enough to be born in a wealthier country, In a few words: GET A LIFE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Young and naive, filippos. You haven't learned yet that everybody wants something different out of life. And for their own personal reasons, reasons which you'll never be able to fathom because they may not make sense in the type of life you're choosing for yourself. None of this is neither right nor wrong; it simply is. It's all about everyone making their own choices, which is our inherent freedom and birthright.

You're making a huge assumption when you lump the whole issue of prostitution into the narrow category of poor people being taken advantage of. Again, you're simply naive about life experience. You're clueless as to what people get out of it for themselves, regardless of whether it's good or bad for them from their perspective..

Two masters don't mean diddly squat, so I wouldn't flaunt your education. Any dummy can get an education. And any dummy without an education can live a financially abundant life. But then money isn't the end all anyway, it can't buy health or happiness, so I wouldn't flaunt that either. It's not what we live for. It's for the unique, personal experience which gives joy, fulfillment and enriches us in many ways. And that will always be different for each unique individual.

Take your own advice. Get a life and live it in a way that is fulfilling and satisfying for yourself. But don't try to stop people from making their own choices just because they're different from yours. Your job is to live your own life. It's not your job to try to 'save the world.' It doesn't need saving.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The root of the problem is in our pants.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is that you don't keep it in your pants!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As my grandaddy used to say " Keep your money in your pocket and your thing in your pants " And " Flies spread disease, keep yours closed "

[Axel]

..... I'm a male young farung with two masters and I can afford what ever I want, honestly and all. I had my 2 years LD Thai relationship and I was sick seeing all of his friends with these older FARUNGS, and I heard their stories, slept in their rooms, visiting their families,, and I wasn't contributing a cent, we spent as much as we both could afford. Like a normal relationship. ..........

######, I sound like Jesus!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have two masters? Perhaps some fatherly friends might sound better.

You sound like Jesus? No, I don't think so, HE was more understanding for all humans, loving and caring.

You had a 2 years LD Thai relationship ... and all his friends...

No idea what is LD (would not be LT?) all HIS friends, shouldn't this read HER friends?

Go figure it out, I cannot.

Btw: I have no master, and my wife of 25 years allowed me to say so.

[stumonster]

axel

a she, read the outlook on sex - comes from mills and boon.

flippos I will gain my sexual release my way - I do not need you to explain to me how you want it to work.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

A few farang sex tourists crucified on the Beach Road in Pattaya may help deter sex tourists. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Doctor,

Why don't you go to Jesus Land (aka the United States) and curtail freedoms there. I think you'll find the government more receptive to your ideas.

[Doctor John]

The estimated average age of girls who enter street prostitution in San Francisco is fourteen. Ninety percent of street prostituted women were abused as children, and are addicted to drugs or alcohol. Fewer than half of the street prostituted women in San Francisco has finished high school. And 85% have never earned money in any other way. (Hope, Promise, Stephanie Salter "Creating hope from lives of desperation" San Francisco Examiner, 16 November 1997)

300,000 to 600,000 juveniles are involved in prostitution in the United States. (Gary Costello of the Exploited Child Unit of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, "Danger for prostitutes increasing, most starting younger," Beacon Journal, 21 September 1997)

Lynwood Stewart, 23, was convicted pimping, beating and raping girls ages 11, 13, 14 and 17 in Brooklyn, New York. He was sentenced to five to 10 years in jail. He said he ran a 25-girl prostitution ring. He claimed, "I thought she was 19," he said of the 11-year-old girl he peddled under the name "Sweets". ("Hall of Shame," New York Post, 23 February 1998)

Marisol Sanders, 25 a Bronx prostitute repeatedly sold her 11-year-old niece to a wealthy former Warner Brothers film executive. She sold her niece 13 times over nine months to the 69-year-old executive, a father of six who allegedly raped and sodomized the girl. ("Hall of Shame," New York Post, 23 February 1998)

85 percent of the prostitutes in the United States are addicted to crack, heroin, prescription drugs, or alcohol. (Delancey Street Foundation, San Francisco, Sarah McNaught, "Working for the man," The Boston Phoenix, 23-30 October 1997)

There were 88,819 prostitution arrests in the United States in 1995. (FBI, Sarah McNaught, "An Immodest Proposal," The Boston Phoenix, 23-30 October 1997)

Sex Tourism

American men are the most numerous sex tourists in the Philippines. (Cecilia Hofmann, Coalition Against Trafficking in Women - Asia Pacific, "Aussie sex tours still flourishing," Associated Press, 1 October 1997)

Central America, specifically Costa Rica and Honduras, have increasingly been the target of American sex tourists. ("Arrest of Another American Sex Tourist in Costa Rica," Casa Alianza, 4 May 1998)

In two of the primary destinations for U.S. sex tourists, the Philippines and Thailand, prostitution is illegal. (Captive Daughters, "Sex Tourism: ‘Real sex with real girls, all for real cheap’")

Sex Tourism and sexual exploitation will never stop, but if the Thai government attempts to do something about these criminals, then I am right behind them.

[Tippaporn]

Love ppl being rude when they face reality. I'm a male young farung with two masters and I can afford what ever I want, honestly and all. I had my 2 years LD Thai relationship and I was sick seeing all of his friends with these older FARUNGS, and I heard their stories, slept in their rooms, visiting their families,, and I wasn't contributing a cent, we spent as much as we both could afford. Like a normal relationship.

Yeah, what's an LD? Whatever stories you're hearing for one, they're not representative of everyone, and two, you'll more than likely get the feedback that precisely matches your personal viewpoint. People quite naturally always try to find supporting evidence for their ideas so they can then proclaim, "Yes, this is true, and the only truth, mind you!"

You have absolutely no compassion for older men. You're young now but one of these days you'll be old yourself. Will you show the same disdain for yourself then? And again, because you're so naive you assume that all young women prefer men their own age, the main idea for your rationalization being that an older man's body is at best a disgusting state of being.

My, my, how limiting your perception is. There's beauty in everything if you have the eyes to perceive it. Don't argue that it doesn't exist because you won't allow yourself to see it.

And what the h*ll is a "normal" relationship? Normal is an absolute relative term requiring personal definition. And no two definitions will ever be completely alike, not as long as you're dealing with subjective human beings. As you mature a little in life you'll find out that the term is positively misleading. You'll find people wasting their entire lives trying to contour their existence to fit into some box labeled "NORMAL" when that state of being simply doesn't exist. What someone decides to define as a "normal" state of being can never be applied to the whole.

The way U talk and your quote under each of your message shows that you obviously are an ugly middle age forung who can't have a gf without paying for her. You freak out with the idea of prostitution banning because your sex life will have an early death. The truth is that since U depend on prostitution for sex, your sex life is already dead and I'm sorry for that. Sex isn't about performing, is about sharing emotions. That's something U can't pay for... I'm sorry...

Relationships have infinite forms. All depends on what people are seeking. If it takes two to dance you'll find a partner. Don't assume that what you seek as an ideal relationship should be the universal ideal. And if others are choosing differently it's certainly not because they haven't yet learned your values! You seem to completely ignore the concept of individual preferences and individual values. They do exist, you know!

And don't claim to pretend to know the vitality of someone else's sex life. Talking in such a vein you can only be talking out of your arse because you don't know and can't know. It only makes you look stupid. It's impossible to get inside of someone else's head and look through their eyes. You can only live one life at a time; yours. While you think your getting inside of someone else's head your only sticking yours up their arse. And most find that objectionble. Again, your ignorance is blatantly apparent.

And all the rest who're trying to hold on the who started and the percentages of Thai's/Farungs concerning prostitution, obviously are seeking for excuses. The only truth is that you're HELPING their CORRUPTION; not that it's not their fault too, obviously I'd rather sleep in a tent for the rest of my life than prostituting. But still, there are a lot of Thai's who wouldn't be corrupted if it wasn't so easy because of the huge demand for young bodies on sale.

Your truth, pal. It's not the only one. Don't expect others to be able to see through your eyes. Can't be done for the reasons already given.

I like the part about "HELPING their CORRUPTION." Again, totally limited perspective based on so many assumptions that simply aren't true. For one, you have no idea of what a prostitute's personal intentions are and therefore cannot know what she gets out of her experience. For another, you assume it can only be bad.

The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. Might take you your whole lifetime to understand that statement.

Guys... You all deserve a healthy relationship, there's someone for U out there. Don't seek the easy solution, beacause this is just a supplement and U know it...

Rest assured, everybody's finding that 'someone' right now. Their solutions follow their intentions, too.

######, I sound like Jesus!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not yet, kid. You're a babe in the woods. You're still sucking your thumb.

[Tippaporn]

The estimated average age of girls who enter street prostitution in San Francisco is fourteen. Ninety percent of street prostituted women were abused as children, and are addicted to drugs or alcohol. Fewer than half of the street prostituted women in San Francisco has finished high school. And 85% have never earned money in any other way. (Hope, Promise, Stephanie Salter "Creating hope from lives of desperation" San Francisco Examiner, 16 November 1997)

. . . blah, blah, blah . . .

Sex Tourism and sexual exploitation will never stop, but if the Thai government attempts to do something about these criminals, then I am right behind them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dare to expand your limiting perspective, Dr. John. Are you so naive that you can't see that this merely represents the worst possible aspects of prostitution? This is no different than watching the nightly news and then believing that it's an accurate representation of reality. Only the worst is emphasized and more importantly exaggerated.

I have friends from Lebanon that are aghast at the portrayal of their country on TV as being strictly a war zone. The news distorts true reality. It sells so well because they've learned that selling the commodity of fear is very profitable.

If someone is trying to make a point they will use as much evidence as they can possibly gather which supports their viewpoint. Evidence to the contrary will be ignored, downplayed, and/or discredited. In no way would the person attempt to be truly objective. They're too consumed with getting their personal perspective across and getting you to believe it as rock-bed reality/fact.

Tell me that it's a fact that in no way does anyone benefit from prostitution ever. You won't find many who'd believe you because their personal experience runs contrary. Try convincing everyone that prostitution in all cases is bad, or sinful if you're of a religious bent. Again, you'll be hard-pressed to find a consensus matching your viewpoint because it's not an absolute truth. Try convincing people that the statistics and experiences published above represent the overriding, pervasive experience resulting from prostitution.

Try convincing people that the statistics are accurate at all to begin with. Statistics require criteria for valuation. What criteria is incorporated and which is ignored? Who in their right mind would blindly accept statistics without questioning the methods of their tabulations? Only a fool who is accepting merely because it agrees with their own life outlook and serves as fodder for espousing their beliefs.

And then try convincing people they should then live their lives according to your narrow-mindedness. Clamp down the laws and everything merely goes underground. Or moves to another location. Again, as long has people have desire for certain experience they will find an outlet for it's expression. It's not up to you to decide what human experience is acceptable and what is not. Only for yourself. It's not even your job to be the judge of experience.

Simply make your preferences and leave everybody to do the same. The world is big enough for everyone to get out of it what they want without stepping on other peoples toes. Your toes are generally only stepped on when you decide to stick your head up someone else's arse.

You're attitudes aren't much different than filippos and based on the same ignorance. While I would assume that neither of you engage in prostitution you both pretend to know what it is that everyone who does gets out of it! You guys are absolutely clueless, obtuse and even more so biased! You want to judge experience from a biased perspective without ever experiencing it yourselves and then turn around and proclaim yourselves experts on the subject. Wake up!

You obviously have adopted the idea exclusively that prostitution is bad, bad, bad. Dare to look for evidence that the reverse is true, also. It would be an exercise that would serve to teach you much. Somehow, I doubt you will. You might find yourself in a world that's much bigger than you imagined it to be and feel a little disoriented.

[kat]

[

Oh, come on!  You can't possibly believe that foreigners created, or even support the majority of, Thai prostitution!  There are brothels in every village, town, and city in this country...and they sure as heck aren't serving farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do actually believe that foreigners playthe bigger part of it. Of course there are locals who look for prostitution as in every country in the world, but trully...

When you walk in BKK or Pataya do U see prostitutes with Thai's or foreigners?

And how much money would a Thai give to his prostitute and how much will a foreigner give? Of course Thailand is a sex- tourism getaway, and of course the foreigners with their western overload of money support it; and most of the times they even go further with fake promises just to get freebies... And this will never change... Unfortunatelly...

What can change is help those young boys and girls to study and offer them better working conditions, and support the agriculture or give them alternative working options.

It's basic economics: the less the demand- the less the production...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, before you make a completely groundless statement like this one, you should at least check some widely established FACTS that contradict your BELIEFS; there is a difference, you know. To quickly reiterate the many facts that have already been stated:

Prostitution as it is widely understood between a short-time paying customer and a "date" began in Thailand when Chinese merchants and labourers started importing Chinese girls to service Chinese men. Eventually many of these immigrant labourers and merchants made their money and merged with the rest of society as they married Thai women.

Before Chinese merchants brought prostitution to Thailand as most of us understand it, concubinage was the order of the day, practiced by the monarchy and the elite. Modest virtue at this time was only an issue for elite women. In fact, there are historical accounts of merchant women that would use sex in financial transactions with Europeans and other merchants before it was even viewed as prostituion. There has always been a blurred line between money, transactions, and relationships in Thai society.

During the Viet Nam War, American GIs and others came to Thailand for rest and relaxation. Everyone knows this, but if you don't it can be easily verified by virtually the first book you pick up explaining prostitution in Thailand. When the war ended, a great chunk of business for Thailand was threatening to end with the war. The Thai government itself reinvented the military rest and relaxation market into the early sex tourist trade. REPEAT: The THAI GOVERNMET parlayed this into the first sex tourist market.

Yes, more than 90% of the actual prostitution market in Thailand is for Thai men and hidden away under different guises. The flamboyance of the tourist market is geared around bars and commercial venues, much like the rest and relaxation format. In fact, much of the Thai and Asian market involves much more exploitative conditions for women, including the trafficking and sex slavery of girls. This is a verifiable FACT.

Yes, it is undeniable that demand and supply are interchangable. Straightforward economics. I've made this argument before on other threads. However, one of the most effective mechanisms to change demand would be to alter supply, and this is completely in the hands of Thai society and government policies (i.e. decent wages, education, and law enforcement for all - not just poor impoverished prostitutes or women that have to bear the brunt of "tax" for entertainment venue owners - including the well-connected business owners and MPs who get rich off of these women. These people are Thais.

The poor blighted souls that they round-up at the park are a mere drop in the bucket compared to Thailand's real sex market, which is at least 15-25% of the GDP. Do you really thing that they're going to end that market when their hands are in the pot, both financially and recreationally?

Whenever people talk of prostitution in Thailand, you will read the same comments over and over again..............

" Why don't the Thai goverment do something about it "  Is an often used phrase used by Farangs

When the Government do take some measures, then  what do we hear?

" The government will ruin the tourist industry "

Many people want to act all moralistic and ethical, but it seems they also still want young Thai women to be available for cheap sex.

I say: Arrest a few farangs engaging in an illegal activity in Thailand, ( prostitution ), name them and shame them, fine and deport them.

International headlines.  Thaksin will be a hero.  Sex tourists will exploit other countries.  Then maybe a different class of Tourist will come to Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Essentially, you advocate arrestting a few farang in a token gesture that does nothing to solve anything, because effectively prostituion in Thailand is only illegal when it comes to punitive measures toward women and the poor. Meanwhile, child trafficking and sexual slavery have increased by 20% in Thailand, the Thai and Asian population are the bulk of demand, and you want them to go after sex tourists - you know what, I don't know why I'm even wasting my time responding to a quote written by someone who calls America a welfare state when close to half of the American population doesn't even have basic health care (nor do many of the returning GIs, as it turns out).

I wish the government would launch a crackdown on stupidity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do I Marquess, but then most of the MPs wouldn't be able to collect their checks or attend government sessions of parliment.

[sua yai]

Why's it just Thailand that's coming in for a hard time from some quarters on this thread?

A lot of more well off French fathers will take their sons to a prostitute and pay her for "breaking him in".

In the UK, prostitution is just about legal. A girl working on her own, with a maid and offering sexual favours for money, is legal. It's only when there is more than one girl in the establishment, that the law can turn it into a brothel - illegal.

Totally agree with the other posters on this thread who say that the problem is NOT farang generated.

The concept of mia yai/mia noi still thrives in Thai society.

If you accept the basic assumption that prostitution will never be driven away in Thailand - and the rest of the world - I would argue that the workers in tourist centres get a much better deal for their profession than in Thai whore houses.

[meemiathai]

I'm just saying: DON'T COME TO THAILAND FOR SEX! Stop taking advantage of poorer people just because you were lucky enough to be born in a wealthier country, In a few words: GET A LIFE!

So, are you taking advantage of the old, fat and ugly coz you are young, fit and handsome so as not to have to pay for sex? Do you consider yourself lucky enough to be born like that? Instead of being 4ft and a half with an ugly face where you would have to live in a tent alone for the whole life?

[Tippaporn]

At the basis of prostitution is the desire for sexual fulfillment. Sexual fulfillment can be found through an endless variety of paths. Only when any of those paths are deemed wrong by people with limited understanding do you find all manner of reasoning and logic cropping up justifying the action or desire from those who are freedom seekers at their core.

And then let the controversies begin! People coming up with their justifications and means to prevent other people from pursuing their desires, morale judgements clouding up the true issues, and those who desire their method of sexual fulfillment coming up with their rationale while eternally finding other avenues to continue their expressions.

Since it's literally impossible to abolish, erradicate, obliterate, abrogate anything, especially permanently, it becomes an endless game between proponents and opponents.

Politicians have an impossible task when trying to curtail human expression. And so they will forever be ineffective and their policies will seem either brilliant or astonishingly foolish, depending on which side of the fence you're sitting on.

What wasted energy.

Sooner or later people will need to realize that it's no one's business to limit the choices of experience in this world. Prostitution is just a single issue of endless other issues that have at their basis the same concept of allowing or disallowing others the right to pursue their own freedoms.

The other creatures of this world practice that philosophy whole-heartedly. They do so with instinctive understanding of the true laws of existence. Ever see animals wage war against each other? In many ways they are much wiser than most of humanity. On the other hand we have more choices available to us than they do. Most notably the choice to depart from true knowing.

[Ijustwannateach]

I find it interesting that whenever they have one of these "social order" crackdowns, the following circumstances seem to apply:

1. It's never at Patpong.

2. It's never at Soi Cowboy, et al.

3. Most of the time it involves places within at least a kilometer of well-known farang tourist centers.

4. It never involves one of Chuwit's massage parlours.

5. It never involves the gogo bars in the small suburban area in which I used to live which were almost all Thai-patronized.

6. It never involves the Japanese prostitution soi, Soi Thawanee.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I don't think Dr. John is actually so dense- just trying to get a reaction. Do I dare utter the "T" word?

"Steven"

[Doctor John]

I don't think Dr. John is actually so dense- just trying to get a reaction.  Do I dare utter the "T" word?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you think that I was only looking for a reaction when i suggested Crucifixtion in Pattaya ?

hehe..........

[meemiathai]

The ONLY way to eliminate prostitution is to have every men's dick chopped off!

[FarangYaayYaaw]

There seems to be 2 types of people:

1 - those who believe moral decisions should be made by the individuals involved and their God (or lack thereof)

2 - those that believe morality should be legislated with harsh penalties for those who transgress.

unfortuantely, group 2 seems to be the majority!

[Tippaporn]

I don't think Dr. John is actually so dense- just trying to get a reaction.  Do I dare utter the "T" word?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you think that I was only looking for a reaction when i suggested Crucifixtion in Pattaya ?

hehe..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr. John, the more you talk the dumber you look. Your choice, right?

[Doctor John]

I don't think Dr. John is actually so dense- just trying to get a reaction.  Do I dare utter the "T" word?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you think that I was only looking for a reaction when i suggested Crucifixtion in Pattaya ?

hehe..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr. John, the more you talk the dumber you look. Your choice, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what I had heard, but I had never had it confirmed.

Thanks for putting my troubled mind at ease.

[meemiathai]

I appreciate it that Dr John and perhaps Filippos are actually hoping for the betterment of Thailand and the poor women in Thailand. But the problem is that they are not facing reality.

Now that I have some time, please let me bullshit for a while.

Is there really anyone in this world(especially men) who believes prostitution would ever really go away?

Most men if not all, have desires for sex. Very strong desire, in fact(well, of course it varies with different men). Men are naturally attracted to beautiful(defined by the person in question) women by their body or by their gestures. Say if you lock a man up for 3 days without food, then send a sexy naked girl bringing food inside. I bet most probably he would choose to have a shag first before touching the food. I remember 'mouse' one of our members here saying something like "everything revolves around sex". I would say I quite agree with him, especially for men. So, men are actually sex slaves.

As quite a few here have said "whenever there is demand, there is supply",

we'll try to look at what the demand here is:

1) there are men who are too old, too fat, too ugly, too bald, too shy and/or too ......whatever, to get laid, to make themselves feel wanted, to get fulfilment...etc

2) there are handsome attractive men who would like to pay to have different experience in sex where they wouldn't encounter with unpaid sex.

3) there are men who have wives or GFs already but still want sex with other women, where having an affair is not a choice. Like wanting to have some "som tum" after 10 days of "kow pat".

there are probably a lot more I have failed to include.

So how the heck are we going to deal with the situation other than supplying them with prostitutes? I am sorry if that what I have said here makes some of you especially female members sick. But I am just trying to be truthful here. As truthful as to admitting my shit stinks. I would say there are far more men than you would believe who will use prostitutes. The very nice gentleman living next block could be using. The father/brother in law could be using. Your husband too could be using. ( Yeahhhhh, you are going to tell me your husband will never.......! You &lt;deleted&gt;!!) Or what else do you think lead to the survival of such a large industry? This may sound ugly, but this is reality.

Politicians who try to eradicate prostitution are either naive or hypocritical. What I would suggest is to decriminalize it, regulate it, systematize it and face all the related problems. Protect the women from being abused. The society would also have to change their attitude towards prostitution.

Yes, educating them(meaning them having alternative skills to make a living) do help them leave. I do tend to agree that if all women in this world are rich, I doubt any of them would become a prostitute. But is this going to happen? I bet if it does, the farmers are going to get rich too by renting their pigs and cows out!

There are quite some more words I would like to say, but I am not very good at organizing them and also I hate long posts.(don't think people like reading) So I will break them up into pieces.

Bashings are welcomed.

[RDN]

...There are quite some more words I would like to say, but I am not very good at organizing them and also I hate long posts.(don't think people like reading)  So I will break them up into pieces. 

Bashings are welcomed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So far, so good! Waiting for the next post ....

[filippos]

Love ppl being rude when they face reality. I'm a male young farung with two masters and I can afford what ever I want, honestly and all. I had my 2 years LD Thai relationship and I was sick seeing all of his friends with these older FARUNGS, and I heard their stories, slept in their rooms, visiting their families,, and I wasn't contributing a cent, we spent as much as we both could afford. Like a normal relationship.

Yeah, what's an LD? Whatever stories you're hearing for one, they're not representative of everyone, and two, you'll more than likely get the feedback that precisely matches your personal viewpoint. People quite naturally always try to find supporting evidence for their ideas so they can then proclaim, "Yes, this is true, and the only truth, mind you!"

You have absolutely no compassion for older men. You're young now but one of these days you'll be old yourself. Will you show the same disdain for yourself then? And again, because you're so naive you assume that all young women prefer men their own age, the main idea for your rationalization being that an older man's body is at best a disgusting state of being.

My, my, how limiting your perception is. There's beauty in everything if you have the eyes to perceive it. Don't argue that it doesn't exist because you won't allow yourself to see it.

And what the h*ll is a "normal" relationship? Normal is an absolute relative term requiring personal definition. And no two definitions will ever be completely alike, not as long as you're dealing with subjective human beings. As you mature a little in life you'll find out that the term is positively misleading. You'll find people wasting their entire lives trying to contour their existence to fit into some box labeled "NORMAL" when that state of being simply doesn't exist. What someone decides to define as a "normal" state of being can never be applied to the whole.

The way U talk and your quote under each of your message shows that you obviously are an ugly middle age forung who can't have a gf without paying for her. You freak out with the idea of prostitution banning because your sex life will have an early death. The truth is that since U depend on prostitution for sex, your sex life is already dead and I'm sorry for that. Sex isn't about performing, is about sharing emotions. That's something U can't pay for... I'm sorry...

Relationships have infinite forms. All depends on what people are seeking. If it takes two to dance you'll find a partner. Don't assume that what you seek as an ideal relationship should be the universal ideal. And if others are choosing differently it's certainly not because they haven't yet learned your values! You seem to completely ignore the concept of individual preferences and individual values. They do exist, you know!

And don't claim to pretend to know the vitality of someone else's sex life. Talking in such a vein you can only be talking out of your arse because you don't know and can't know. It only makes you look stupid. It's impossible to get inside of someone else's head and look through their eyes. You can only live one life at a time; yours. While you think your getting inside of someone else's head your only sticking yours up their arse. And most find that objectionble. Again, your ignorance is blatantly apparent.

And all the rest who're trying to hold on the who started and the percentages of Thai's/Farungs concerning prostitution, obviously are seeking for excuses. The only truth is that you're HELPING their CORRUPTION; not that it's not their fault too, obviously I'd rather sleep in a tent for the rest of my life than prostituting. But still, there are a lot of Thai's who wouldn't be corrupted if it wasn't so easy because of the huge demand for young bodies on sale.

Your truth, pal. It's not the only one. Don't expect others to be able to see through your eyes. Can't be done for the reasons already given.

I like the part about "HELPING their CORRUPTION." Again, totally limited perspective based on so many assumptions that simply aren't true. For one, you have no idea of what a prostitute's personal intentions are and therefore cannot know what she gets out of her experience. For another, you assume it can only be bad.

The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. Might take you your whole lifetime to understand that statement.

Guys... You all deserve a healthy relationship, there's someone for U out there. Don't seek the easy solution, beacause this is just a supplement and U know it...

Rest assured, everybody's finding that 'someone' right now. Their solutions follow their intentions, too.

######, I sound like Jesus!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not yet, kid. You're a babe in the woods. You're still sucking your thumb.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the comments man, I do think that you have a lot of valid points. I'm at no position to jugde ppl, since I, and probably no one in this world knows what is right and what's wrong. We all make our choises, and we not all have to agree on those.

You're right that I can't blame foreigners, the root of the problem comes from the souls of all ppl who are able to function as prostitutes. Again, it's their choice. That's democracy and the gvmt shouldn't ban anything.

It's true that my comments are based on my prospective only and the experience I had, and that "normal" doesnt exist in any relationship. Maybe I watch too many movies.

Just to let U know that I did enjoy our exchange of messages eventhough I don't apreciate calling me names. Still, U do have valid points and regardless I will admit that.

You guys of course should do as you feel and the govmt shouldn't add more laws but the opposite.

I for myself just give an alternative options to ppl (as a writer), to follow or not. Again! Freedom of choice!

Yet, I think that sex tourism in Thailand makes the country uglier and I wish the sex tourists would move to a country who has nothing else to offer. Thailand,and I've travelled a lot, is Paradise on Earth.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with sucking my thumb, i found that cute

Have a good day!

Filippos

PS. LD means Long Distance Relationship

PS2. I said his because I'm talking about a gay guy.

[filippos]

I'm just saying: DON'T COME TO THAILAND FOR SEX! Stop taking advantage of poorer people just because you were lucky enough to be born in a wealthier country, In a few words: GET A LIFE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, are you taking advantage of the old, fat and ugly coz you are young, fit and handsome so as not to have to pay for sex? Do you consider yourself lucky enough to be born like that? Instead of being 4ft and a half with an ugly face where you would have to live in a tent alone for the whole life?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right too. I take my luck for granted too, but I think that even the guy you described can find someone who loves him the way he is. Then again, I really don't know. Maybe I'm too optimistic. Maybe if he gives it a shot first?

[Tippaporn]

Thanks for the comments man, I do think that you have a lot of valid points. I'm at no position to jugde ppl, since I, and probably no one in this world knows what is right and what's wrong. We all make our choises, and we not all have to agree on those.

You're right that I can't blame foreigners, the root of the problem comes from the souls of all  ppl who are able to function as prostitutes. Again, it's their choice. That's democracy and the gvmt shouldn't ban anything.

It's true that my comments are based on my prospective only and the experience I had,  and that "normal" doesnt exist in any relationship. Maybe I watch too many movies.

Just to let U know that I did enjoy our exchange of messages eventhough I don't apreciate calling me names. Still, U do have valid points and regardless I will admit that.

You guys of course should do as you feel and the govmt shouldn't add more laws but the opposite.

I for myself just give an alternative options to ppl (as a writer), to follow or not. Again! Freedom of choice!

Yet, I think that sex tourism in Thailand makes the country uglier and I wish the sex tourists would move to a country who has nothing else to offer. Thailand,and I've travelled a lot, is Paradise on Earth.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with sucking my thumb, i found that cute 

Have a good day!

Filippos

PS. LD means Long Distance Relationship

PS2. I said his because I'm talking about a gay guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiippos, my intention wasn't to personally bash you or call you names. Afterall, people are not their ideas. People merely hold ideas. Ideas are simply the tools used to create one's experience. Hold them, mold them, project them out into the world and the world mirrors them back to you so that you can literally experience the manifestations of your thoughts and ideas. In other words, the world then gives you feedback so you can then make conclusions which help you to further make choices of which ideas serve you well and which do not.

You weren't born with the ideas you have. You've only adopted them through the teachings of parents, family, teachers, friends, books, whatever. Unfortunately, most never examine their beliefs before or after adopting them, nor do they consider their beliefs as such; simply beliefs about the world. Beliefs are mistakenly interpreted as unchangeable truths about the world. And once they've been given this status they are no longer subject to having their validity questioned. On top of this most become so intertwined with their beliefs that they confuse their beliefs with who they are. Thus, you find people willing to 'die for a cause.'

I've choosen to live in Thailand precisely because of the many freedoms I find in Thailand (including sexual freedom) that I feel have to one extent or another been suppressed elsewhere. I believe these freedoms are in large part due to the developed attitudes and deep-seated culture of Thailand which are expressed daily through the common (common as in average) Thai people. I believe Thailand has much to offer and I would not like to see the adoption here of so many Western ideas whose resulting problems are so evident to me.

Thailand is more representative of freedom than most anywhere I've experienced in the world. And I am first and foremost a freedom seeker. I do not need people to tell me what choices are good or bad for me; I prefer to decide these for myself. I do not need 'well intentioned' people to limit my choices in their misguided attempt to protect me and insure my safety; I prefer to live my choices and expose myself to life to whatever extent I choose while at the same time being aware that I am indeed safe. And I grant this freedom to each and everyone else without then feeling that my personal liberties would be threatened by their choices.

I speak loudest when I hear people advocating ideas that at their core can only serve to limit experience. Not because I fear for my freedom but because I would only give the opportunity to those to examine and rethink their ideas. I would wish for everyone to experience their true freedom rather than limit themselves through the use of unworthy ideas.

This is an open forum. Each person has a right to express their ideas freely. Through a framework such as this people can share and exchange ideas to the benefit of any who choose to learn and grow. I enjoy these exchanges tremendously!

Fillippos, have a better day!

[orchis]

Surely such an industry (est. 400 000 to 1 000 000 workers) couldnt exist without

official tolerance or support?

The Lumpini police station is ca 50 m away from the nearest prostitute standing at Lumpini park.

the prostitutes standing there are picked up by people in cars, how many tourists drive cars in BKK?

Thai government is very good at "setting the example" (for the press, international press, NGO's) while letting the majority of things going on as usual.

(real estate, jewelryscams, prostitution, drug consumption).

[Tippaporn]

I don't think Dr. John is actually so dense- just trying to get a reaction.  Do I dare utter the "T" word?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you think that I was only looking for a reaction when i suggested Crucifixtion in Pattaya ?

hehe..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr. John, the more you talk the dumber you look. Your choice, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what I had heard, but I had never had it confirmed.

Thanks for putting my troubled mind at ease.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr. John, have you depleted your store of worthy input? Surely you're capable of better commentary!

[Dradam]

Ending prostitution in any country is certainly a noble goal. It is not actually an achievable goal however. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply.

Taksin has sought to make Thailand the Health Care Hub of Asia, the Tourism Hub of Asia, the Fashion Hub of Asia, the Technology Hub of Asia and the Tourism Hub of Asia. Many people I talk to, however, recognize Thailand as the Prostitution Hub of the Entire World. I can see why he wants to change Thailand's image. It is difficult to convince the world that Thailand is a modern society if prostitution runs rampant.

I am curious what percentage of tourists come to Thailand for the sex trade. How many come for Health Care? How many come for the beaches and scenery? How many come for shopping? How many come for Thai culture?

Reducing prostitution will take more than a token effort during election years. The politicians aren't actually interested in ending prostitution anyway. Most of them have several wives and still visit the massage parlors regularly.

The only real way to fight prostitution is to instill deep-seeded values into children at a young age. Many Thai women are raised this way. Many beautiful girls work 5,000 Baht / month jobs instead of selling themselves for ten times that amount. It is a difficult world they live in. The pressure is often overwhelming.

Unfortunately, prostitutes often become dependent on drugs and alcohol as their self-image decays. They are living a life they are taught is evil and sinful and will result in pain and torture in their next life.

It is easy to point the finger and try to blame others for problems in society. It is more difficult to be part of the solution. Problems in society cannot be solved in a single day. Certainly we must decide what societal ills are most dangerous and try to contain those first. Perhaps prostitution is not the first problem in society that must be fixed.

[chonabot]

How many come for Health Care? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would imagine that figure would be very low , unless you are referring to Plastic Surgery , in comparison to prices elsewhere ?

[PvtDick]

How many come for Health Care? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would imagine that figure would be very low , unless you are referring to Plastic Surgery , in comparison to prices elsewhere ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From the look of the waiting rooms at Bumrungrad, I'd say lots of people come to Bangkok for health care other than plastic surgery. They appear to be mostly Middle Easterners and Sub-Continentals who probably find it hard to come by decent health services in their own countries, followed by Westerners who probably find it prohibitively expensive to come by decent health services in their own countries.