PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[marshbags]

At the end of the day, we're all humans...

Great photo,s S.J.

They certainly belie all the alledged unrest ect. ect. that certain members renowned for their glass eyed approach and opinions.

They sleep peacefully and do so because there is no threat as has been exagerated upon, highlighting isolated incidents.

These when taken into context with the vast amount of people present, is first of all to be expected and secondly, mis understandings and misinterpretation.

Peace, Understanding and not a sign of alleged annomosity between the various security forces and the PAD supporters

May it long continue

marshbags

Regarding the security forces, as many who have been in threatening situations via the various forces around the glode on active service, riots and potential powder keg situations ect. ect.

You do not sleep in such an exposed position and most certainly you are always at the ready with your protective gear on to constanly provide for it,s purpose.

Edited August 29, 2008 by marshbags

[hammered]

So, now the PAD admits to General Panlop's leadership role. Yes, Gen Panlop was the man who ordered the infamous attack on Krue Se mosque flouting an order from Gen Chavalit not to do so. The scum in the PAD have absolutely no morals or common sense.

Yes the old Krue Se hardman is a right unsavoury character but I take it you are equally critical of the PM for his eh past indiscretions in relation to Massacres on several occasions and also of the ex-PM and currelt overseer of Man City for his little extrajudicial slaughter campaign. There are bad guys everywhere you look in this.

[geriatrickid]

I see that the theater of the absurd is still going strong.

If I understand this mess correctly, we have a group of people calling themselves People's Alliance for Democracy, but espouse appointments of parlimentarians rather than elected seizing a government compound. This group purports to represent the people but has in its leadership either directly or indirectly many military officials that have been accused of serious violent crimes including political murders, and corruption. The aim of the group is to protest a legally elected government that has it's own share of members accused of violence and corruption.

Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

My money's on the government that was put in place by the voters of Thailand. it seems that view is shared by most other countries that have been sending a steady stream of foreign officials into Thai embassies around the world in the last few days pledging support. The exception though seems to be China. I wonder what that means?

[Thai at Heart]

Is this why Sondhi appears to hate all politicians? The 97 crash ruined him, and he thought he got out of it, only to see Thaksin put him back in the financial mire. He was at one time worth estimated 600mn USD, which was lost after the decision to float the baht.

Quoted from Wikepedia, which some are saying is inaccurate, but many of the stories are corroborated in other publications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limthongkul

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

[edit] The Thaksin Era (2001-2006)

[edit] Pro-Thaksin Period

After the election of Thaksin Shinawatra as Prime Minister in 2001, Manager Daily lauded Thaksin's leadership, calling him Thailand's best prime minister ever. Somkid Jatusripitak, co-founder of the Manager Media Group and writer of a column for Manager Daily became Thaksin's commerce and finance minister[3]. Pansak Vinyaratan, previously editor of the now defunct Sondhi-owned Asia Times, became Thaksin's chief policy adviser. Chai-anan Samudvanija, who chaired IEC and was head of several of Sondhi's foundations, won prominent jobs at the Krung Thai Bank and Thai Airways International. Kanok Abhiradee, the head of one of Sondhi's companies, became president of Thai Airways. Viroj Nualkhair, Sondhi's former banker[4], replaced Sirin Nimmanhaeminda as president of the state-owned Krung Thai Bank. Under Viroj's management, the debt that Manager Group owed to Krung Thai Bank was reduced from Bt1.8 billion to THB 200 million.

Emerging from bankruptcy, Sondhi started his own TV show, 'Thailand Weekly' airing on the MCOT's channel and co-hosted by Sarocha Pornudomsak. He also invested in two TV channels, 11/1 and 11/2 - a split from Television of Thailand Channel 11. A Democrat MP alleged that the Thaksin government gave favors to Sondhi and his companies[5].

In July 2003, Sondhi wrote in his newspaper predicting the US Dollar's failure in 2010 and at the same time suggested Thai people invest in gold.

[edit] Origins of the Anti-Thaksin Period

In 2004, state-owned Krung Thai Bank (KTB) shocked Thailand's financial world by reclassifying approximately Bt40 billion as problem loans. It was strongly rumored that M.R.W. Pridiyathorn Devakula, the Bank of Thailand governor, would fire KTB CEO Viroj Nualkhair if he did not voluntarily resign. Viroj Nualkhair was Sondhi's former financial advisor, having helped him IPO one of his first companies.[8] As Krung Thai Bank CEO, Viroj had forgiven Sondhi's debts by THB 1.6 billion and arranged for further rounds of forgiveness. Using all of his media outlets, Sondhi furiously attacked Pridiyathorn and defended Viroj Nualkhair. However, Viroj was eventually forced to leave Krung Thai Bank. Sondhi's public criticism of Thaksin started to increase.[9]

In July 2004, Sondhi's Channel 11/1 was temporarily ordered to stop broadcasting due to a contract dispute between cable operator UBC and the government regulator.[10][11] Sondhi's criticism of Thaksin increased steadily throughout 2004 and 2005, with weekly attacks on his Muangthai Rai Sapda (Thailand Weekly) television show getting much attention.

In September 2005, MCOT (broadcaster of Channel 9), in response to allegations that Muangthai Rai Sapda made inapporpriate references to the monarchy, cancelled the program.[12] Sondhi claimed that he was dropped for criticism of the Thaksin government. He subsequently started broadcasting the talkshow via satellite and webcasting it on the website of one of his newspapers, doubling his daily number of site visitors.[6]

[mumbu]

At the end of the day, we're all humans...

Great photo,s S.J.

They certainly belie all the alledged unrest ect. ect. that certain members renowned for their glass eyed approach and opinions.

They sleep peacefully and do so because there is no threat as has been exagerated upon, highlighting isolated incidents.

These when taken into context with the vast amount of people present, is first of all to be expected and secondly, mis understandings and misinterpretation.

Peace, Understanding and not a sign of alleged annomosity between the various security forces and the PAD supporters

May it long continue

marshbags

In my view, the only way to resolve the crisis is to act decisevely against the PAD reactionary mob. Slim manority acts with unprecedented impudence and nobody seems to have stomach to act. PPP should bring activists from Isaan who were able to finish PAD rallies in NorthEstern provinces pretty quickly. PAD should be taught lesson or two. The criminals should be arrested and taken to court. Punishments should be harsh. The longer anarchy and chaos imposed by slim minority continues the more chances of military intervention or worse.

Inability to act is kind of unprecedented here...

[hammered]

I see that the theater of the absurd is still going strong.

If I understand this mess correctly, we have a group of people calling themselves People's Alliance for Democracy, but espouse appointments of parlimentarians rather than elected seizing a government compound. This group purports to represent the people but has in its leadership either directly or indirectly many military officials that have been accused of serious violent crimes including political murders, and corruption. The aim of the group is to protest a legally elected government that has it's own share of members accused of violence and corruption.

Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

My money's on the government that was put in place by the voters of Thailand. it seems that view is shared by most other countries that have been sending a steady stream of foreign officials into Thai embassies around the world in the last few days pledging support. The exception though seems to be China. I wonder what that means?

China has a well known policy of non-interference in the internal affairs of countries. They wont comment on who the government of Thailand is whatever form it takes. They will just continue business as usual. It has served them extremely well in Africa.

[hammered]

At the end of the day, we're all humans...

Great photo,s S.J.

They certainly belie all the alledged unrest ect. ect. that certain members renowned for their glass eyed approach and opinions.

They sleep peacefully and do so because there is no threat as has been exagerated upon, highlighting isolated incidents.

These when taken into context with the vast amount of people present, is first of all to be expected and secondly, mis understandings and misinterpretation.

Peace, Understanding and not a sign of alleged annomosity between the various security forces and the PAD supporters

May it long continue

marshbags

In my view, the only way to resolve the crisis is to act decisevely against the PAD reactionary mob. Slim manority acts with unprecedented impudence and nobody seems to have stomach to act. PPP should bring activists from Isaan who were able to finish PAD rallies in NorthEstern provinces pretty quickly. PAD should be taught lesson or two. The criminals should be arrested and taken to court. Punishments should be harsh. The longer anarchy and chaos imposed by slim minority continues the more chances of military intervention or worse.

Inability to act is kind of unprecedented here...

Direct action against the PAD could very well result in exactly the kind of military intervention you dont want to see.

[kurtgruen]

All I can say again is...Power to the People.

This has been a peaceful demonstration, with ordinary Thai people exercising their democratic right to demonstrate. Now the Unions are joining in, which is great, because, again, it shows that it is a movement of the people.

I can't believe all the violent right wind rhetoric coming from some of you guys...these demonstrators are peaceful, mostly ordinary citizens of this country, who love their monarch and country. How can you suggest violence against these good people???

As a member of Local 31 Teamsters, Canada, I ask for any Union brothers around the World, who hear about this, to help their brothers over here in Thailand, who are demostrating at the Thai Government house right now.

Here is a link for 24 hour coverage of the peaceful civil disobedience:

http://wwitv.com/portal.htm?http://wwitv.c...nnels/b2973.htm

ASTV is providing 24 hour coverage on location.

[faranglandoz]

These people are only allowed to sit there because powerful people want them to sit there

Very true.

One of those powerful people is Gen. Saprang - an extremist in the military, who has not got the highly desired Army Chief position one year before his retirement, and who wants to keep power beyond retirement.

There are several Democrat MPs who see this as a way to gain more local power by financing transport to the site in their constituencies, and hope to create enough chaos so that they have a chance to form a new government that way, get posts, and be part of the usual gravy train they have been cut off since 2001.

And there are others who benefit from this purposeful destabilisation of the country, no matter the economical desaster that is looming.

Well said, as I am new to Thailand, been here one year, I don't know what I have been told is true. Many times I have been informed that the PAD leaders, were at one time very friendly with Thaksin, and maybe more than just friendly. Is this true?

Faranglandoz

[faranglandoz]

Superman mustn't be the only one with x-ray vision???

Would you please not cut and paste my post completely out of context to distort it so it fits your semi-flame there.

this was my post:

One month ago the PAD guards - the "Srivichai Warriors" - started open displays of weapons such as batons, golf clubs, slingshots, and also carried camouflaged swords and hidden knifes.

I would also like to draw your attention to a previous post, which described how three journalists were threatened by PAD guards. Those incidents are so common there, that most journalists don't even bother anymore to complain to PAD leaders.

I myself have been threatened twice tonight by those guards for doing my job, which is extremely intimidating, being surrounded by these thugs with metal bars and batons.

So thank you very much for your comment, and please, if you only intend to aggravate me - then please don't comment anymore to my posts. I am tired, pissed off, haven't slept yet, and might have to get back to the mess soon again.

My girlfriend works for the Ministry of Education, she said several times that PAD male members have walked onto her office floor, and demanded some of the ladies open their handbags for them to look into. Don't know what they were after, maybe collecting funds for the uprising.

Faranglandoz

[Thai at Heart]

These people are only allowed to sit there because powerful people want them to sit there

Very true.

One of those powerful people is Gen. Saprang - an extremist in the military, who has not got the highly desired Army Chief position one year before his retirement, and who wants to keep power beyond retirement.

There are several Democrat MPs who see this as a way to gain more local power by financing transport to the site in their constituencies, and hope to create enough chaos so that they have a chance to form a new government that way, get posts, and be part of the usual gravy train they have been cut off since 2001.

And there are others who benefit from this purposeful destabilisation of the country, no matter the economical desaster that is looming.

Well said, as I am new to Thailand, been here one year, I don't know what I have been told is true. Many times I have been informed that the PAD leaders, were at one time very friendly with Thaksin, and maybe more than just friendly. Is this true?

Faranglandoz

Sondhi particularly was enormously pro-Thaksin as long as the path to removing him from bankruptcy was followed. I believe he was promised something that wasn't delivered.

Some balanced discussion on the issue:

http://sanpaworn.vissaventure.com/log/227/...l-in-the-nation

[sylviex]

A PAD staff distributes underwears for female protesters so that they had underwears to change while camping in the Government House.//Tatchadon Panyaphanitkul

The Nation

[faranglandoz]

At the end of the day, we're all humans...

Great photo,s S.J.

They certainly belie all the alledged unrest ect. ect. that certain members renowned for their glass eyed approach and opinions.

They sleep peacefully and do so because there is no threat as has been exagerated upon, highlighting isolated incidents.

These when taken into context with the vast amount of people present, is first of all to be expected and secondly, mis understandings and misinterpretation.

Peace, Understanding and not a sign of alleged annomosity between the various security forces and the PAD supporters

May it long continue

marshbags

In my view, the only way to resolve the crisis is to act decisevely against the PAD reactionary mob. Slim manority acts with unprecedented impudence and nobody seems to have stomach to act. PPP should bring activists from Isaan who were able to finish PAD rallies in NorthEstern provinces pretty quickly. PAD should be taught lesson or two. The criminals should be arrested and taken to court. Punishments should be harsh. The longer anarchy and chaos imposed by slim minority continues the more chances of military intervention or worse.

Inability to act is kind of unprecedented here...

The PAD protest should have been stopped two months ago. How dare they block streets and make life for the ordinary people more difficult. In any other country it would have been finished as soon as they started blocking off main roads.

Faranglandoz

[Plus]

... Thailand isn't any different from say The Netherlands, last time I looked there weren't any taxi drivers, farmers in our parlement either. They are represented by professional politicians, who are affiliated with a certain party....

Thailand doesn't have any professional politicians affiliated with political parties (apart from Democrats).

Half the current parlament are brothers, cousins, wives and all other assorted stand-ins for political criminals. Those who's been in politics for a while have switched their political camps and ideology numerous times.

Speaking of ideology - none in in the ruling coalition professes any, let alone acts on it.

I don't believe the self-exiled Thaksin is pulling any strings. Were do you suggest I get my checkup?

Last week newspapers - when EVERY faction leader claimed to recieve a personal phone call from Thaksin. The general content of all those calls was printed everywhere.

I don't find it reasonable for people with opposing points of view to claim that the person with differing views is mentally retarded...

No, it's not the opinion itself, it's the process that lead to forming it that is deeply suspicious.

[jimbob]

This was a thinking by Sondhi, not hard facts.

I agree with h90.

We should not just concentrate on what Sondhi is saying or thinking as this is not representative.

You should focus on his actions, I mean it is not like he is illegally occupying state buildings and calling for the overthrow of a popularly elected government.

If he were doing that then maybe his anti-democratic speeches would have some substance.

expensively bought into power...is what you mean, or?

so you mean they should have a chance to get their pockets full before they leave?

Thai Rak Thai and PPP were/are both incredibly popular with rural people.

This has less to do with bribes and more to do with providing a popular platform of policies that helped the countryside.

If you want to talk about corruption then take a look closer to home first:

Vote buying? Protestor buying? Dodgy bank loans?

These allegations are made against PAD and their leaders as well, with lots of supporting evidence.

[mommysboy]

'The PAD protest should have been stopped two months ago. How dare they block streets and make life for the ordinary people more difficult. In any other country it would have been finished as soon as they started blocking off main roads.' says OZ.

And Mommysboy agrees. They are breaking the law time and time again. If I, you, or anyone else does it we are called to account. They don't seem to have public support for their actions.

[Moonrakers]

Thailand's current debacle is glowing proof of the problems that stem from buying votes and endemic corruption. Among other things, PAD supporters appear to be saying they have no faith in the ways things get done in Thailand, and not much faith that anyone (or any group) of politicians have the basic skills needed to govern decently - as PAD haven't put forward a candidate or cabinet to replace the current bunch of crooks and bumblers in the power seats.

Not a chance. They're going for all or nothing now. That's why Sondhi finally blurted it out - no elections, just elites apponted to Government from now on and and an official oversight by the military.

It's so sad, but perhaps human nature, that the elties in Thailand simply won't face up to the fact that their neglect of the masses for so long has led to this fatal attraction to TRT/PPP. Rather than the Democrats (for example) trying to beat the PPP at their own game by developing good sound policies to improve the lives of ordinary (read poor) Thais who make up the majority of the country, they've tried to fall back on the old elite military-commercial guanxi families to save them - in other words ignore the poor and if they get too pushy then just ban democracy altogether.

It's either incredibly arrogant or incredibly simple-minded. Turn the clock bak 60 years.

Sums up the current position pretty neatly IMHO.

Maybe those already inside could get flourescent hand stamps, similar to those found in many night-clubs allowing you to leave and then re-enter without paying again.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

All I can say again is...Power to the People. This has been a peaceful demonstration, with ordinary Thai people exercising their democratic right to demonstrate. Now the Unions are joining in, which is great, because, again, it shows that it is a movement of the people. I can't believe all the violent right wind rhetoric coming from some of you guys...

When I was 4 years old I also had trouble distinguishing left from right, so my mum put a sticker on my right hand.

Have you read anything from PAD or listened to what they're actually saying? They want an appointed (not elected) "parliament" with the military to oversee things.

Strikes will do nothing but put even more distance between PAD and the people who supported and voted for the current government. Objectively speaking the current government is doing a terrible job, but these protest will do nothing but unify the masses (yes, the poor masses) against the PAD / Bangkok yuppies who think they're so much smarter and higher class so their opinion should count for more.. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Not now, not ever.

[geriatrickid]

This has been a peaceful demonstration, with ordinary Thai people exercising their democratic right to demonstrate. Now the Unions are joining in, which is great, because, again, it shows that it is a movement of the people.

I can't believe all the violent right wind rhetoric coming from some of you guys...these demonstrators are peaceful, mostly ordinary citizens of this country, who love their monarch and country. How can you suggest violence against these good people???

As a member of Local 31 Teamsters, Canada, I ask for any Union brothers around the World, who hear about this, to help their brothers over here in Thailand, who are demostrating at the Thai Government house right now.

Whoa nellie. Considering the history of the Teanmsters you of all people should know how unions can be manipulated by gangsters to engage in activities contrary to the best interests of union members and the public at large. It wasn't too long ago that organized crime pulled the strings within the Teamsters to loot pension funds and to cause labour unrest at those companies that resisted the organized criminals overtures.

If you recall your own history, it was the Canadian locals that stood up and said no to decades of manipulation and coercion. You might wish to consider that aspect of history.

If anyone is right wing it is PAD. Look at its manifesto. It says no to elected members of parliament. It wants the appointment of these people. The people opposing PAD were elected in a general election. The movers and shakers in PAD all have links to former military leaders. It's PAD that favours ruling by decree and that means reducing unions right of assembly and organizing. So come on, do your research.

Don't believe me? Go read the CBC report today. CBC journalists union isn't one to support right wingers now is it?

[Insight]

On a lighter note...

Courtesy of Steph / 2Bangkok.com

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand's current debacle is glowing proof of the problems that stem from buying votes and endemic corruption. Among other things, PAD supporters appear to be saying they have no faith in the ways things get done in Thailand, and not much faith that anyone (or any group) of politicians have the basic skills needed to govern decently - as PAD haven't put forward a candidate or cabinet to replace the current bunch of crooks and bumblers in the power seats.

Not a chance. They're going for all or nothing now. That's why Sondhi finally blurted it out - no elections, just elites apponted to Government from now on and and an official oversight by the military.

It's so sad, but perhaps human nature, that the elties in Thailand simply won't face up to the fact that their neglect of the masses for so long has led to this fatal attraction to TRT/PPP. Rather than the Democrats (for example) trying to beat the PPP at their own game by developing good sound policies to improve the lives of ordinary (read poor) Thais who make up the majority of the country, they've tried to fall back on the old elite military-commercial guanxi families to save them - in other words ignore the poor and if they get too pushy then just ban democracy altogether.

It's either incredibly arrogant or incredibly simple-minded. Turn the clock bak 60 years.

Sums up the current position pretty neatly IMHO.

Maybe those already inside could get flourescent hand stamps, similar to those found in many night-clubs allowing you to leave and then re-enter without paying again.

If they succeed in overthrowing the govt and getting the system that the self appointed anti-democracy spokesman wants, they whole country will be paying for it for the next 20 years.

[george]

Urgent: police break through lines of protesters

Police have stormed in and broken through lines of protesters to be positioned outside Government House compound Friday morning.

-- The Nation 2008-08-29

[animatic]

There was a time when Thaksin was the up and coming man of the hour.

And every one in Thailand wanted to be shaking his hand with a strong wai.

It is the ancient chinese feudal way, gravitate toward the successful man ,

kowtow and receive patronage.

He survived '97 well and learned some lessons by 2000, he had shaken enough hands

and made enough promises, to get elected and fulfill a whole term, a first in Thailand.

Something that he deserves credit for too.

But many of his handshakes had begun turning to dust, and many who had been allies

turned against him, because he had stopped playing the game properly.

He didn't need them now, he was all powerful, especially after doging the verdict on

his hidden asets in 2001. He also decided to slap down the forces that tried to question his wealth.

Either from greed or ego or both. Certainly hubris played a part in his downfall.

Sondhi was one of many. He was also one of many in '97 who got hung up to dry

But from the usual friendly deals and long term outlook of the power brokers,

Sondhi pull his ashes out of the fire and planted new flowers in the fertilizer.

It's no coinicidence that Sondhi was into Satalites before,

and suddenly lost his satalite busniesses. Thaksin doesn't like competition.

it is no coinicdense they fell out, Thaksin more and more was only liking those

he could boss around. People with their own ideas ran counter to his

increasingly control freak nature. Sondhi for good or ill was his own man.

They were on a par before, but Thaksin helped kick him down.

As the Thaksin 2nd term commenced his ego could be seen visibly inflated,

and as things went pear shaped his public pronouncements got progressively

less rational sounding. Not certifiable nutty, but certainly a bunker mentality.

When he announced at the loss of a cabinet or staff member that it 'made no difference,

if they came or went he was the only one working or able to make decisions'.

it got pretty scary. Hubris of a high order, coupled with paranoia. Not good leadership traits.

That's when I started getting scared with him at the helm.

When he sold to Temasek and ignored most all tax issues, that clearly was over the top,

and the investigations of how he did it, brought people out of the woodwork with gripes against him.

The climate had finally changed enough to risk his billion baht lawsuits against any who talked against him.

After he was deposed it clearly turned into a meglomaniacly crusade to 'take back what was his',

as he saw it. Enter PPP and a proxy government. The coup leaders had not succesfully dismantled his machine,

they had neutered, sort of, a few of the leaders, but people like Kuhn Newin still held their constituencies

and so could wield behind the scenes power. TRT lived in another guise.

Enter Samak, someone who the lo so's could admire as a street fighter type speaking his mind.

They won again. Now if they had just gone about governing and dealing with real politic,

then things might have gone ok, but they had debts to pay to the boss.

And two were stiffle the investigations against him and save his money.

So they spent lots of time trying to jigger the system for the boss,

Nero fiddling while Rome burned. PAD was a VERY loud thorn in their foot during this time.

But they just couldn't get rid of it. But as PAD escalated their actions gradually, there finally

was an big enough opening to try and pound them back down; NBT,

except that didn't really go as planned...

Now we have this stale mate. PAD had the women and children anyway, they were always a part

of their grouping. Mothers wanting a better country for their children. Now they are a strong reason w

hy cooler heads have said wait it out. As their leadership becomes at risk opportuinists are coming in,

like sharks for chum, offering 'to help', and maybe upping the ante as simple protection for the leaders

with no intention to act unless it falls into their lap. Certainly a certain person would like to stick it to

Thaksin's crew one more time for his last public betrayal. Just talking turns the screw pretty good.

Thaksin's ego has set up most of this debacle over time. His chickens are coming home to roost,

with a more than a few chicken hawks dropping in for a feast too.

You can blame PAD for over reaching now, but the depth of ill feeling towards Thaksin

and his minions, goes way beyond just the old elites wanting the old ways, and a few generals with grudges

or higher aspirations. He stepped on many toes, and toes are often connected to feet and teeth.

Kick a dog when it's down and it WILL bite you as you walk away.

Kick a dozen dogs when you have a stick in hand,

and a pack will bite your rear aggressively when you have no stick.

If you leave a side of beef in the smoke house and can't lock the door,

you can bet the pack will try to get that meat when they can.

It will bite your a$$ as you try to protect it or take it away.

Edited August 29, 2008 by animatic

[Moonrakers]

Urgent: police break through lines of protesters

Police have stormed in and broken through lines of protesters to be positioned outside Government House compound Friday morning.

-- The Nation 2008-08-29

I can't see this on ASTV, is it live? (ASTV I mean)

[koosdeboer]

This was a thinking by Sondhi, not hard facts.

I agree with h90.

We should not just concentrate on what Sondhi is saying or thinking as this is not representative.

You should focus on his actions, I mean it is not like he is illegally occupying state buildings and calling for the overthrow of a popularly elected government.

If he were doing that then maybe his anti-democratic speeches would have some substance.

expensively bought into power...is what you mean, or?

so you mean they should have a chance to get their pockets full before they leave?

Thai Rak Thai and PPP were/are both incredibly popular with rural people.

This has less to do with bribes and more to do with providing a popular platform of policies that helped the countryside.

If you want to talk about corruption then take a look closer to home first:

Vote buying? Protestor buying? Dodgy bank loans?

These allegations are made against PAD and their leaders as well, with lots of supporting evidence.

You know why TRT and PPP are so popular with rural people? Because the kamnan and the monk in the village temple say so. Have you seen this speakers in the villages? Or did you hear them early in the morning with there propaganda?

Toxin and his friends brought a lot of money to the temples and the monks love money. They will do everything for money, tell your lucky future, give you lucky numbers or dates and give you advice; TRT, PPP, Toxin, Samak.

My mother in law will do everything the monk or the kamnan say.

Don't you think that this people of the PAD must believe in something? Chamlong for sure isn't there for the money or for power. Don't think it's fun to be there in the rain or in the heat without all the luxury. That's the difference with Toxin with his private jet shopping in london.

[animatic]

So much for cooler head prevailing.

[koosdeboer]

There was a time when Thaksin was the up and coming man of the hour.

And every one in Thailand wanted to be shaking his hand with a strong wai.

It is the ancient chinese feudal way, gravitate toward the successful man ,

kowtow and receive patronage.

He survived '97 well and learned some lessons by 2000, he had shaken enough hands

and made enough promises, to get elected and fulfill a whole term, a first in Thailand.

Something that he deserves credit for too.

But many of his handshakes had begun turning to dust, and many who had been allies

turned against him, because he had stopped playing the game properly.

He didn't need them now, he was all powerful, especially after doging the verdict on

his hidden asets in 2001. He also decided to slap down the forces that tried to question his wealth.

Either from greed or ego or both. Certainly hubris played a part in his downfall.

Sondhi was one of many. He was also one of many in '97 who got hung up to dry

But from the usual friendly deals and long term outlook of the power brokers,

Sondhi pull his ashes out of the fire and planted new flowers in the fertilizer.

It's no coinicidence that Sondhi was into Satalites before,

and suddenly lost his satalite busniesses. Thaksin doesn't like competition.

it is no coinicdense they fell out, Thaksin more and more was only liking those

he could boss around. People with their own ideas ran counter to his

increasingly control freak nature. Sondhi for good or ill was his own man.

They were on a par before, but Thaksin helped kick him down.

As the Thaksin 2nd term commenced his ego could be seen visibly inflated,

and as things went pear shaped his public pronouncements got progressively

less rational sounding. Not certifiable nutty, but certainly a bunker mentality.

When he announced at the loss of a cabinet or staff member that it 'made no difference,

if they came or went he was the only one working or able to make decisions'.

it got pretty scary. Hubris of a high order, coupled with paranoia. Not good leadership traits.

That's when I started getting scared with him at the helm.

When he sold to Temasek and ignored most all tax issues, that clearly was over the top,

and the investigations of how he did it, brought people out of the woodwork with gripes against him.

The climate had finally changed enough to risk his billion baht lawsuits against any who talked against him.

After he was deposed it clearly turned into a meglomaniacly crusade to 'take back what was his',

as he saw it. Enter PPP and a proxy government. The coup leaders had not succesfully dismantled his machine,

they had neutered, sort of, a few of the leaders, but people like Kuhn Newin still held their constituencies

and so could wield behind the scenes power. TRT lived in another guise.

Enter Samak, someone who the lo so's could admire as a street fighter type speaking his mind.

They won again. Now if they had just gone about governing and dealing with real politic,

then things might have gone ok, but they had debts to pay to the boss.

And two were stiffle the investigations against him and save his money.

So they spent lots of time trying to jigger the system for the boss,

Nero fiddling while Rome burned. PAD was a VERY loud thorn in their foot during this time.

But they just couldn't get rid of it. But as PAD escalated their actions gradually, there finally

was an big enough opening to try and pound them back down; NBT,

except that didn't really go as planned...

Now we have this stale mate. PAD had the women and children anyway, they were always a part

of their grouping. Mothers wanting a better country for their children. Now they are a strong reason w

hy cooler heads have said wait it out. As their leadership becomes at risk opportuinists are coming in,

like sharks for chum, offering 'to help', and maybe upping the ante as simple protection for the leaders

with no intention to act unless it falls into their lap. Certainly a certain person would like to stick it to

Thaksin's crew one more time for his last public betrayal. Just talking turns the screw pretty good.

Thaksin's ego has set up most of this debacle over time. His chickens are coming home to roost,

with a more than a few chicken hawks dropping in for a feast too.

You can blame PAD for over reaching now, but the depth of ill feeling towards Thaksin

and his minions, goes way beyond just the old elites wanting the old ways, and a few generals with grudges

or higher aspirations. He stepped on many toes, and toes are often connected to feet and teeth.

Kick a dog when it's down and it WILL bite you as you walk away.

Kick a dozen dogs when you have a stick in hand,

and a pack will bite your rear aggressively when you have no stick.

If you leave a side of beef in the smoke house and can't lock the door,

you can bet the pack will try to get that meat when they can.

I bite your a$$ as you try to protect it or take it away.

Thanks for this explanation, it's to the point.

[Thai at Heart]

There was a time when Thaksin was the up and coming man of the hour.

And every one in Thailand wanted to be shaking his hand with a strong wai.

It is the ancient chinese feudal way, gravitate toward the successful man ,

kowtow and receive patronage.

He survived '97 well and learned some lessons by 2000, he had shaken enough hands

and made enough promises, to get elected and fulfill a whole term, a first in Thailand.

Something that he deserves credit for too.

But many of his handshakes had begun turning to dust, and many who had been allies

turned against him, because he had stopped playing the game properly.

He didn't need them now, he was all powerful, especially after doging the verdict on

his hidden asets in 2001. He also decided to slap down the forces that tried to question his wealth.

Either from greed or ego or both. Certainly hubris played a part in his downfall.

Sondhi was one of many. He was also one of many in '97 who got hung up to dry

But from the usual friendly deals and long term outlook of the power brokers,

Sondhi pull his ashes out of the fire and planted new flowers in the fertilizer.

It's no coinicidence that Sondhi was into Satalites before,

and suddenly lost his satalite busniesses. Thaksin doesn't like competition.

it is no coinicdense they fell out, Thaksin more and more was only liking those

he could boss around. People with their own ideas ran counter to his

increasingly control freak nature. Sondhi for good or ill was his own man.

They were on a par before, but Thaksin helped kick him down.

As the Thaksin 2nd term commenced his ego could be seen visibly inflated,

and as things went pear shaped his public pronouncements got progressively

less rational sounding. Not certifiable nutty, but certainly a bunker mentality.

When he announced at the loss of a cabinet or staff member that it 'made no difference,

if they came or went he was the only one working or able to make decisions'.

it got pretty scary. Hubris of a high order, coupled with paranoia. Not good leadership traits.

That's when I started getting scared with him at the helm.

When he sold to Temasek and ignored most all tax issues, that clearly was over the top,

and the investigations of how he did it, brought people out of the woodwork with gripes against him.

The climate had finally changed enough to risk his billion baht lawsuits against any who talked against him.

After he was deposed it clearly turned into a meglomaniacly crusade to 'take back what was his',

as he saw it. Enter PPP and a proxy government. The coup leaders had not succesfully dismantled his machine,

they had neutered, sort of, a few of the leaders, but people like Kuhn Newin still held their constituencies

and so could wield behind the scenes power. TRT lived in another guise.

Enter Samak, someone who the lo so's could admire as a street fighter type speaking his mind.

They won again. Now if they had just gone about governing and dealing with real politic,

then things might have gone ok, but they had debts to pay to the boss.

And two were stiffle the investigations against him and save his money.

So they spent lots of time trying to jigger the system for the boss,

Nero fiddling while Rome burned. PAD was a VERY loud thorn in their foot during this time.

But they just couldn't get rid of it. But as PAD escalated their actions gradually, there finally

was an big enough opening to try and pound them back down; NBT,

except that didn't really go as planned...

Now we have this stale mate. PAD had the women and children anyway, they were always a part

of their grouping. Mothers wanting a better country for their children. Now they are a strong reason w

hy cooler heads have said wait it out. As their leadership becomes at risk opportuinists are coming in,

like sharks for chum, offering 'to help', and maybe upping the ante as simple protection for the leaders

with no intention to act unless it falls into their lap. Certainly a certain person would like to stick it to

Thaksin's crew one more time for his last public betrayal. Just talking turns the screw pretty good.

Thaksin's ego has set up most of this debacle over time. His chickens are coming home to roost,

with a more than a few chicken hawks dropping in for a feast too.

You can blame PAD for over reaching now, but the depth of ill feeling towards Thaksin

and his minions, goes way beyond just the old elites wanting the old ways, and a few generals with grudges

or higher aspirations. He stepped on many toes, and toes are often connected to feet and teeth.

Kick a dog when it's down and it WILL bite you as you walk away.

Kick a dozen dogs when you have a stick in hand,

and a pack will bite your rear aggressively when you have no stick.

If you leave a side of beef in the smoke house and can't lock the door,

you can bet the pack will try to get that meat when they can.

I bite your a$$ as you try to protect it or take it away.

The route cause of this is corruption by ALL involved. This is the culmination of all the problems that 97 caused. Cross shareholdings, dodgy lending, onshore holdings, offshore holdings, secured loans unpaid, dodgy handshakes and promises made by ALL sides over the years are being repaid now. It would appear that this whole charade may the battle between two business cultures and the personalities involved.

So lets all go back to unelected parliaments on the whim of one hurt man with a TV station? I sincerely hope not.

[jitagon]

There was a time when Thaksin was the up and coming man of the hour.

And every one in Thailand wanted to be shaking his hand with a strong wai.

It is the ancient chinese feudal way, gravitate toward the successful man ,

kowtow and receive patronage.

He survived '97 well and learned some lessons by 2000, he had shaken enough hands

and made enough promises, to get elected and fulfill a whole term, a first in Thailand.

Something that he deserves credit for too.

But many of his handshakes had begun turning to dust, and many who had been allies

turned against him, because he had stopped playing the game properly.

He didn't need them now, he was all powerful, especially after doging the verdict on

his hidden asets in 2001. He also decided to slap down the forces that tried to question his wealth.

Either from greed or ego or both. Certainly hubris played a part in his downfall.

Sondhi was one of many. He was also one of many in '97 who got hung up to dry

But from the usual friendly deals and long term outlook of the power brokers,

Sondhi pull his ashes out of the fire and planted new flowers in the fertilizer.

It's no coinicidence that Sondhi was into Satalites before,

and suddenly lost his satalite busniesses. Thaksin doesn't like competition.

it is no coinicdense they fell out, Thaksin more and more was only liking those

he could boss around. People with their own ideas ran counter to his

increasingly control freak nature. Sondhi for good or ill was his own man.

They were on a par before, but Thaksin helped kick him down.

As the Thaksin 2nd term commenced his ego could be seen visibly inflated,

and as things went pear shaped his public pronouncements got progressively

less rational sounding. Not certifiable nutty, but certainly a bunker mentality.

When he announced at the loss of a cabinet or staff member that it 'made no difference,

if they came or went he was the only one working or able to make decisions'.

it got pretty scary. Hubris of a high order, coupled with paranoia. Not good leadership traits.

That's when I started getting scared with him at the helm.

When he sold to Temasek and ignored most all tax issues, that clearly was over the top,

and the investigations of how he did it, brought people out of the woodwork with gripes against him.

The climate had finally changed enough to risk his billion baht lawsuits against any who talked against him.

After he was deposed it clearly turned into a meglomaniacly crusade to 'take back what was his',

as he saw it. Enter PPP and a proxy government. The coup leaders had not succesfully dismantled his machine,

they had neutered, sort of, a few of the leaders, but people like Kuhn Newin still held their constituencies

and so could wield behind the scenes power. TRT lived in another guise.

Enter Samak, someone who the lo so's could admire as a street fighter type speaking his mind.

They won again. Now if they had just gone about governing and dealing with real politic,

then things might have gone ok, but they had debts to pay to the boss.

And two were stiffle the investigations against him and save his money.

So they spent lots of time trying to jigger the system for the boss,

Nero fiddling while Rome burned. PAD was a VERY loud thorn in their foot during this time.

But they just couldn't get rid of it. But as PAD escalated their actions gradually, there finally

was an big enough opening to try and pound them back down; NBT,

except that didn't really go as planned...

Now we have this stale mate. PAD had the women and children anyway, they were always a part

of their grouping. Mothers wanting a better country for their children. Now they are a strong reason w

hy cooler heads have said wait it out. As their leadership becomes at risk opportuinists are coming in,

like sharks for chum, offering 'to help', and maybe upping the ante as simple protection for the leaders

with no intention to act unless it falls into their lap. Certainly a certain person would like to stick it to

Thaksin's crew one more time for his last public betrayal. Just talking turns the screw pretty good.

Thaksin's ego has set up most of this debacle over time. His chickens are coming home to roost,

with a more than a few chicken hawks dropping in for a feast too.

You can blame PAD for over reaching now, but the depth of ill feeling towards Thaksin

and his minions, goes way beyond just the old elites wanting the old ways, and a few generals with grudges

or higher aspirations. He stepped on many toes, and toes are often connected to feet and teeth.

Kick a dog when it's down and it WILL bite you as you walk away.

Kick a dozen dogs when you have a stick in hand,

and a pack will bite your rear aggressively when you have no stick.

If you leave a side of beef in the smoke house and can't lock the door,

you can bet the pack will try to get that meat when they can.

I bite your a$$ as you try to protect it or take it away.

Thanks for this explanation, it's to the point.

[Plus]

So lets all go back to unelected parliaments on the whim of one hurt man with a TV station?

Staying with the present corrupt bunch is not an option either.

Not a single decent person entered Thai politics in a decade.

The current system is hopeless.