Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[jayjayjayjay]

Errr, and as far as I know majority of people who voted in the last election didn't vote for PPP. Why the need to keep claiming that majority chose them? Is that just innocent little misunderstanding or instead pure ignorance and stupidity?

Give it up, they formed a legitimate government with coalition partners. Dispute this fact or not?

[Plus]

I'm not sure about PPP's win, last time they carried Thaksin and his legacy and got 36% of the vote. Last time they believed that Thaksin could come back and bring back good times. The situation has obviously changed.

In the big scheme of things I don't know what's better - win or loss for PPP. There is an urgent need for comprehensive political reform, I suppose with Dems in power there will be a better chance of that happening. On the other hand, with Dems in power, the desire for reform might subside, too.

[jdinasia]

Errr, and as far as I know majority of people who voted in the last election didn't vote for PPP. Why the need to keep claiming that majority chose them? Is that just innocent little misunderstanding or instead pure ignorance and stupidity?

Give it up, they formed a legitimate government with coalition partners. Dispute this fact or not?

LOL

Better read up about the fate of the PPP and the last elections (you cannot cheat and then claim legitimacy). The PPP's days as a party are numbered and they have already been in front of the courts and lost!

[Sheryl]

Seems that tempers are rising as much on this forum as out in the streets. A few posts have been edited accordingly.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, and trading insults never changed anyone's mind.

Keep it civil, folks. A bit more exchange of factual information and a bit less competition to see whose subjective opnion can be most forcefully expressed would better meet the needs of the large number of members reading this thread to get an update on what is going on.

[jts-khorat]

The current goverment ist not democratic as the Election Commission found out. Samak broke the constitution. PPP want to change the constitution to protect themself. Therefore the Peoples Alliance for Democracy, which includes complete different people, educated, uneducated, poor and rich, left and right wants to PROTECT Democracy against the criminals in power.

The Chavalit government was responsible for the economic crash 1997 so Chuan could not give any free gifts for Isaan as Thailand was bankrupt.

Repeating your same arguments over and over again like a broken record does not make them into facts. Instead, it gets quite boring reading this same thing from you for the 30th time.

[h90]

One of my aunts got paid during the election, was bused to a polling place, got some loans through some TRT's schemes, and of course got the 30-Baht health care...but she apparently understands that the amount of losses the country has suffered through TRT's corruption has far outweighted whatever little she was given by them. Sad that many aren't like my aunt.

So simply it seems to us, back at the small villages where are no newspapers and TV only shows stupid soap operas they got misleading informations.

Thaksin paid back Thailands depts from his private money. Thaksin pays the fee at hospital. The loans were gifts from Thaksin and need only to be paid back because the rich one in Bangkok want to get more rich.

There are some who REALLY believe that. I even got told (and that woman was not young) that under Chuan the Thai economic collapsed 1997 and Thaksin fixed that problem. I don't know how it is possible to be so uninformed,

Maybe a first step would be to check and control the Methanol percentage in Lao Kao. Methanol damage on the brain is my only explanation....

[jasreeve17]

Errr, and as far as I know majority of people who voted in the last election didn't vote for PPP. Why the need to keep claiming that majority chose them? Is that just innocent little misunderstanding or instead pure ignorance and stupidity?

Please re-read - I said that if Mr T was a candidate... Last time Mr Samak was the candidate. Do you deny that the majority of Thais would vote for Mr T if he was a candidate?

Also, please try to stop being insulting for no reason. Undertsand that very few dislikes Mr T more than I do, and I initially supported the PAD ideas (until it became clear that they are purely a tool for the so-called 'elites' and seem hel_l bent on getting their own way despite the wishes of the majority of the nation, or the violence and trouble they cause in the process). Of course, I don't presume that the PPP are any different / better, but I do presume them to have an electorial mandate.

[Moonrakers]

Errr, and as far as I know majority of people who voted in the last election didn't vote for PPP. Why the need to keep claiming that majority chose them? Is that just innocent little misunderstanding or instead pure ignorance and stupidity?

Give it up, they formed a legitimate government with coalition partners. Dispute this fact or not?

Sure they formed a coalition government ThNiner is not disputing this, but the PPP still did not have the vote of the majority of the electorate, which is what he is saying.

[h90]

The current goverment ist not democratic as the Election Commission found out. Samak broke the constitution. PPP want to change the constitution to protect themself. Therefore the Peoples Alliance for Democracy, which includes complete different people, educated, uneducated, poor and rich, left and right wants to PROTECT Democracy against the criminals in power.

The Chavalit government was responsible for the economic crash 1997 so Chuan could not give any free gifts for Isaan as Thailand was bankrupt.

Repeating your same arguments over and over again like a broken record does not make them into facts. Instead, it gets quite boring reading this same thing from you for the 30th time.

it is a fact! I can't help you....It is handed over to the courts with recommendation to dissolve the PPP.

Chavalits government was in power in 1997 at the crash...you can read about it in every book and how Chuan minimized the huge damage.

That is not my opinions, that are provable FACTS.

[Plus]

On the violence - I believe PAD didn't anticipate such powerful response. They would have changed their tactics. They've been at at for months now, both PAD and the police, the latest escalation surpised them both, I suppose. They will soon find the person who ordered the crackdown and there will be denials and apologies all over the place.

On the legitimacy - even PPP knows the party will get dissolved and execs will be banned for electoral fraud. They are living on borrowed time. All these claims to legitimacy would mean nothing after the court verdict. Realistically every government move and every parliament law should be challenged after the party is thrown out. These claims don't mean much more than the paper they are printed on, or bites of storage place on TV servers in our case.

[WilliamTarmby]

This is only going to get worse, the government as usual did exctly the wrong thing at the wrong time. This should have been done when they first disrupted govt. house, now a complete U turn and lob in the tear gas.

See what happens tonight, reckon this is going to get way out of hand.

[sriracha john]

PAD suppoters from Trat join forces at Government house

The recent dispersion of PAD’s protestors at the Parliament compound by police forces resulting in numerous serious injuries, as one member has lost one of his legs, causing resentment nationwide among PAD’s supporters.

Following the collision between PAD’s protestors and police forces at 6:20 A.M. today, PAD’s supporters from other provinces had begun to travel into Bangkok to join forces at the Government house. The riot police forces used tear gas to disperse the PAD’s demonstrators at the Parliament compound, a method of which had enraged the PAD’s supporters throughout the country.

Reports suggested that an estimate of 10 vans full of PAD’s supporters from Trat province had already arrived into the Government house in Bangkok, and more of them from other provinces were expected to do the same all day today.

PAD’s supporters stated that the police action this morning was unnecessary and unacceptable as many unarmed and innocent citizens were victimized.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-07

[dyertribe]

For what it's worth

At the moment (from australia) I can not connect to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/index.php or http://www.bangkokpost.com/index.php both just time out. Makes me wonder if Thailand has been isolated from the rest of the world.

I've got a bad feeling about this.

[jasreeve17]

Errr, and as far as I know majority of people who voted in the last election didn't vote for PPP. Why the need to keep claiming that majority chose them? Is that just innocent little misunderstanding or instead pure ignorance and stupidity?

Give it up, they formed a legitimate government with coalition partners. Dispute this fact or not?

Sure they formed a coalition government ThNiner is not disputing this, but the PPP still did not have the vote of the majority of the electorate, which is what he is saying.

ThNiner is saying that in reply to his misread - nobody ever said that PPP had a majority in the last election. Relax chaps.

If you support the PAD and their actions, that's up to you, but please don't attempt to suggest / 'claim' that PAD are anything other than an aggressive and vocal minority.

Edited October 7, 2008 by jasreeve17

[bulmercke]

Urgent meeting of top military leaders

In his dual capacity as defence minister, Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has called an urgent meeting of military commanders at the Supreme Command Headquarters.

Army chief General Anupong Paochinda said before attending the meeting that soldiers would not intervene but stand ready to carry out the government's instruction.

The Nation

[Johpa]

I wonder how long it will take certain larger powers that be to step in, again?

Somchai already stepped in. He ordered the police action.

John, aim higher mate.

There are lots of significant actors higher up, but give me a break, none of them are going to show you their cards over a trivial action such as a little pepper spray used against a few protesters. But rest assured the competing interests are not all using the same deck of cards, not all are playing with a full deck, and some have a few cards hidden up their sleeves.

[hammered]

These forums get packed with strong diverse opinions and I guess most of us are foreigners who dont even have a say.

The problem is that amongst ordinary Thai people there is a similar and just as emotve divide and unless any Thai politician of any persuasion can resolve this there is going to be no resolution and that includes through elections as the ground rules are not agreed to on these anymore. Even if the Dems were to win a vote does anyone think there wouldnt be demos against them and lots of claims of vote buying and cheating? Whatever people want this one is going to run and run short of a drastic change in tact by all. There are millions of PPP sympathisers and there millions of PAD sympathisers.

[sriracha john]

Probe launched for violent crackdown

The National Human Rights Commission has launch an investigation in the violent crackdown on protesters, NHRC Chairman Saneh Chamrik said.

Saneh said he was concerned that police were unprovoked but fired tear gas at protesters. The investigation will get to the bottom of the matter, he said.

The Nation / 2008-10-07

[jasreeve17]

On the violence - I believe PAD didn't anticipate such powerful response. They would have changed their tactics. They've been at at for months now, both PAD and the police, the latest escalation surpised them both, I suppose. They will soon find the person who ordered the crackdown and there will be denials and apologies all over the place.

On the legitimacy - even PPP knows the party will get dissolved and execs will be banned for electoral fraud. They are living on borrowed time. All these claims to legitimacy would mean nothing after the court verdict. Realistically every government move and every parliament law should be challenged after the party is thrown out. These claims don't mean much more than the paper they are printed on, or bites of storage place on TV servers in our case.

Plus,

Do you really believe that the PAD want to avoid violence? I feel that the new government of Khun Somchai is quite popular and gaining public support, so the PAD started to panic and are trying (successfully) to up the stakes - a formulated plan on their part, strategically put in place over the last few days.

This PAD lot (I mean the leaders, not the average decent Bangkok middle class supporter) will never peacfully stop until a compliant democratic party is in place - which goes against what the Thai people want and continually vote for. Just my viewpoint.

[bangkokrick]

At last!!! There is something we can thank PAD members for. Thank you. Thank you...

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Rumor has it they've topped up the oil and checked the radiator on every squad car.

Excellent Sunrise first laugh of the day!

Cheers, Rick

[h90]

For what it's worth

At the moment (from australia) I can not connect to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/index.php or http://www.bangkokpost.com/index.php both just time out. Makes me wonder if Thailand has been isolated from the rest of the world.

I've got a bad feeling about this.

The Nation worked 15 min ago from Austria (my mother read it).

[cmsally]

People should really step back and look at the situation more objectively. it is far more complicated than pro PAD and pro PPP. But looking at the bigger picture I think you have 2 scenarios. Roughly the PPP comes out on top and you have a step into highly resisted stagnation. Or the roughly PAD side comes out on top and I fear you have a step backwards for the country.

You have a scenario of a coup of sorts tied to anti corruption which was featured in the speech by Anand that I linked a while back, with a few nasty wildcards thrown in. Then a supposed 3 month timeline of which one month has already gone.

But if you are talking of democracy and anti corruption as being the centrepoints of this affair, I respectfully say that you have severely lost the plot.

[hammered]

On the violence - I believe PAD didn't anticipate such powerful response. They would have changed their tactics. They've been at at for months now, both PAD and the police, the latest escalation surpised them both, I suppose. They will soon find the person who ordered the crackdown and there will be denials and apologies all over the place.

On the legitimacy - even PPP knows the party will get dissolved and execs will be banned for electoral fraud. They are living on borrowed time. All these claims to legitimacy would mean nothing after the court verdict. Realistically every government move and every parliament law should be challenged after the party is thrown out. These claims don't mean much more than the paper they are printed on, or bites of storage place on TV servers in our case.

Plus,

Do you really believe that the PAD want to avoid violence? I feel that the new government of Khun Somchai is quite popular and gaining public support, so the PAD started to panic and are trying (successfully) to up the stakes - a formulated plan on their part, strategically put in place over the last few days.

This PAD lot (I mean the leaders, not the average decent Bangkok middle class supporter) will never peacfully stop until a compliant democratic party is in place - which goes against what the Thai people want and continually vote for. Just my viewpoint.

The main problem with that arguement is that it was the police, who are under government control, who initiated the current movement away from negotiations into conflict when Chaiwat was arrested. That is not to say the PAD dont want or benfit from violence, but just to follow the latest chain of developments.

[sriracha john]

PM climbs over fence to leave Parliament

Somchai, accompanied by five or six followers, left the venue by going through a senate building before climbing over the fence

It's not Somchai... but there did seem to be quite a bit of fence climbing today...

Thai riot police officers climb over the fence as they abandon the street outside parliament for anti-government protesters during the demonstration in Bangkok, Thailand Tuesday, Oct. 7, 2008.

Associated Press

[coalminer]

This is still a demonstration.

At no point have the PAD gone on attack without being first provoked or attacked. At no point have PAD used anything other than defensive weapons or maneuvers.

Until the PAD start using offensive tactics and weapons they are simply demonstrating and protecting their right to do so.

And please feel free to make oh so witty and offensive comments about the use of offensive above. If that's the best that you can come up with for justifying unnecessary and violence provoking actions by the Police and the PPP cronies then I will not be surprised. Trolling will just make your position weaker than it already is.

The PAD went on attack when they took siege at the Parlement house.

The PAD went on attack when they closed airports.

The PAD went on attack many more times the you want to say.

All these attacks were attacks to the Nation and would prompt Police intervention ANYWHERE in the world.

And when a sovereign nation like Thailand call the Police in to restore law and order and POLICEMAN ARE BEING MURDERED by the PAD demonstators you date to call this "using than defensive weapons or maneuvers."?

The PAD and their leader Sondhi have BLOOD on their hand and they know that.

Still, they enjoy the actions of a few demonstrators who are offering themselves and their children as "human shields".

When in a few months, you will see everywhere in Thailand the police being replaced by Military who are carrying guns with military loads and who are holding a freedom to shoot at anyone without carrying him to a police station first like the Guardia Civil in my country, you can be proud of defending a man called Sondthi.

[Payboy]

Is not one policeman dead, is not another in critical condition.

Policeman critically injured in a clash with PAD

Pol Sgt Maj Taweep Klanniam and another policeman were pierced by sharp iron bars during police clash with People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters.

The clash took place at around 1 pm.

The two policemen were rushed to the Phramongkutklao Hospital, which now declares that both are already in safe conditions.

The Nation

And also:

Policeman fatally injured in a clash with PAD

BANGKOK: -- A policeman succumbed to injuries at around 2.50 pm Tuesday after being pierced by a sharp iron bar during police clash with People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters.

The clash took place at around 1 pm.

Pol Sgt Maj Taweep Klanniam died at the Phra Mongkutklao Hospital.

Another policeman was also critically injured.

Don't you just love the reporting out here.

Maybe reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

who said miracles dont happen....maybe we will have limbs growing back next....

[jdinasia]

Coalminer ---- all your hyperbole doesn't make a single thing you said a fact

[Thunder26]

At 16:10 to 16:22 new shootings were heard from the place. A big smoke has been seen around 4 minutes from the place. I live not far, I can hear everything and as I see the things are getting worse.

[toybits]

You wonder whether Sonthi L. et. al. will take responsibility for this murder?

The PAD went on attack when they took siege at the Parlement house.

The PAD went on attack when they closed airports.

The PAD went on attack many more times the you want to say.

All these attacks were attacks to the Nation and would prompt Police intervention ANYWHERE in the world.

And when a sovereign nation like Thailand call the Police in to restore law and order and POLICEMAN ARE BEING MURDERED by the PAD demonstators you date to call this "using than defensive weapons or maneuvers."?

[sriracha john]

Unarmed, but heavily-protected with helmets, face masks and shields, hundreds of police moved through

These shotgun-toting police must not have gotten the memo...

Armed Thai riot police officers take a position as they confront with anti-government protesters during a demonstration against government outside Parliament in Bangkok, Thailand, Tuesday, Oct. 7, 2008. Scores of protesters were injured.

Associated Press