Thaksin Guilty In Land Case, Gets 2-year Imprisonment

[hammered]

Apparently Thaksin will now write a letter in response - I wonder how many normal people have that opportunity?

Anyway lets try to predict: I love my country etc. I am not a perfect perosn but I am not as bad as my enemies make out etc. I have tried my best fo my country and tried to help the people. A small group did not like this etc. A small group oppose democracy etc. These people have engineered this polically motivated etc etc Now is not time for me to tell my side. I ask my supporters to wait just a little longer and stick with me a little longer etc. Some comment about democracy. When the time is right I will return to my homeland. My day will come soon. etc etc. Respects.

[Zolt]

Good verdict in my opinion. Now he can return to thailand, serve his time and all that absurdity will be over.

As was stated, his wife did pay for the land 700mn bahts, which hardly qualifies as cheap, she was the highest bidder, and there is now evidence that Thaksin actually used his influence for her to get a cheaper price. So nobody can honestly say the state lost money on that deal. It's just that he wasn't within a law *which didn't exist at that time!*

Although there's a bit more money involved overall, it is (arguably) of about the same magnitude as Samak hosting a cooking show.

After all this picturing him as the Thai version of Hitler, and after the Junta drafting new laws just to get him behind bar, it's interesting that this is the best they could do. *Hint* have a look at the accounts of any army general in the 2006-2007 period, and I'm sure there some very jazzy things to be found, what with appointing themselves on the board of most public companies and so on..

[Samuian]

WE ARE a naive bunch(Most of "Us")!

These laws ARE the Junta's "New"amendments to the constitution! RE: Thaksin was within the Code of law At said time the "Land" deal was made.

Can someone confirm that this statement is true. I don't like to execute a criminal and found out later that the court was rigged. i am sure that the judges (apart from Somchai who is a ex-judge) is not stupid enough not to pick this out.

didn't read the post #86 above?

Does anyone remember, that at one stage both of them claimed they did this purchase not for personal gain but for their children so to socialize with their mates in Bangkok they had a place to stay (33 Rai!!!)and didn't need to drive the long and dangerous distance! ? Anyone?

I thought it was the rudest reply ever... and blunt lie... seems these people have completely lost their feeling for right or wrong, basically seem to care <deleted>!

Edited October 21, 2008 by Samuian

[george]

Thai court sentences ousted premier Thaksin to two-year imprisonment; wife not guilty

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Supreme Court Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions on Tuesday sentenced ousted, fugitive prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to two-years imprisonment in absentia while his wife was set free in a landmark case involving charges of irregularities in a land purchase deal.

Five of the nine judges of the court, headed by senior judge Thonglor Chomngam, ruled that Mr. Thaksin was guilty and sentenced him to two-years imprisonment, while seven of the judges ruled that his wife Mrs. Pojaman was not guilty because she was not a government official. Nonetheless, two judges objected.

The court also ruled that an arrest warrant be issued for Mr. Thaksin whom it charged of guilty of conflict of interest while the warrant imposed earlier on his wife would be waived but the arrest warrant for Mr.Thaksin is still intact.

Both the land and money amounting Bt772 million spent on buying the 33 rai (13.2 acre) parcel of land in Bangkok's prime Ratchadapisek business area by Mrs. Pojaman will be unfrozen, according to the ruling.

The couple fled to Britain in early August after attending the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games in Beijing. They recently sought political asylum in the United Kingdom saying that they could not get a fair trial in Thailand.

Tuesday's ruling was made after the Assets Examination Committee, formed after a bloodless coup on September 19, two years ago ousted Mr. Thaksin, alleged that the couple violated the National Counter Commission Act by bidding for the 33 rai of land in 2003 from the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF), a unit under the Bank of Thailand, while Mr. Thaksin was in power.

The FIDF was established to bail out debt-ridden banks during the financial crisis which hit Thailand in 1997.

It was estimated that the land purchased by Mrs. Pojaman was worth three times the Bt772 million she Invested.

Mr. Thaksin is facing a string of court cases and investigations into alleged corruption and abuse of power during his six years in office, His wife was convicted of tax evasion and sentenced to three years in jail on July 31.

Meanwhile, People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters who have been encamped in the Government House compound since late August applauded at the news, expressing their satisfaction with the court's verdict.

The PAD leaders would discuss the verdict, protest sources said, and announce its stance and coming plans to their gathering later Tuesday evening.

-- TNA 2008-10-21

[sangfroid]

WE ARE a naive bunch(Most of "Us")!

These laws ARE the Junta's "New"amendments to the constitution! RE: Thaksin was within the Code of law At said time the "Land" deal was

made.

His wife did NOT get the land cheap! She tenured this highest bid!776Million bht for 33 rai.The commitee representatives voted that her bid won!The land was being sold by the Thai Developement authority. 776 million + buildings on that barren land would have been a sweet deal for the local inhabitants of this BKK center.

Meanwhile the PAD has created a vaccume of security here in LOS.And the criminals are rapidly understanding that "Anarchy" can be lucrative!

Ex: previous 14 days in Petburi,1 attempted rape and successful robbery on an elderly female teacher, One House robbery on a Large Beauty shop: the power was cut to inhibit the CTV survail and it was cleaned out,05:30 this morning and woman was jogging, knocked down kicked and robbed by a gang of 5 young men (They freely "Tag" their gang name about town lately "SK")

I can suggest several alternatives to the Crappy Biased Media coverage and the PAD brainwash!( PM me!) Thaksin did about 1000% less ugly doodoo than Bush or Blair! And despite all of the moanings,Actually lifted the average Thai living standard 100%.As well as creation of a somewhat well fubnctioning and secure legal system.

It's a power struggle.Between Democratic principles and a small wealthy elite! At least 50 Million Thai's need to be "Brainwashed" by PAD.

I don't think so!

By the way can anyone tell us WHO has "The Arabian Blue Diamond"?

Peace!

*sigh*

No, the deal wasn't legal when it was made. That is what the case was about. Not a retroactive application of some new law. You are sadly mistaken.

No, neither Bush nor Blair organized a campaign where internal blacklists of individuals [of their own citizens!] was targeted for termination.

Vacuum of security? Really? The same amount of shit happens as it always has, get real.

At the time there were other parties intending to bid. They screamed loud and long that the tender process had been rigged and that Potjaman got the land at a knock down price well below it's market value.

[poryai]

I am amazed at how many bloggers here if even peripherally, support/sympathize with PAD. Corruption is ingrained in Thai culture. It will take generations to eradicate. PAD claims democracy. Hah. Not even close. The closest thing to PAD politics is Communism. Let's get real guys. They waqnt to roll it back to 1973 with no clear plan, candidate or process. AS long as the press is not free and everyone can be bought, even the most primal form of democracy here is impossible. I love Thailand. been here for 18 years, have an extensive family here, and have seen the bouncing ball go every which way. I am saddened that the world is laughing at Thailand now. And the beat goes on...

[hammered]

Shawn Crispin has a piece up at Asia Times on todays verdict. Worth a read imho:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JJ22Ae02.html

Edited to add: it includes an anonymous government supporter mentioning torching the supreme administrative court

Edited October 21, 2008 by hammered

[Samuian]

I am amazed at how many bloggers here if even peripherally, support/sympathize with PAD. Corruption is ingrained in Thai culture. It will take generations to eradicate. PAD claims democracy. Hah. Not even close. The closest thing to PAD politics is Communism. According how, who looks at this movement! Let's get real guys. They waqnt to roll it back to 1973 with no clear plan, candidate or process. AS long as the press is not free and everyone can be bought, even the most primal form of democracy here is impossible. It's an opinion, your opinion, but it's not necessarily the reality! I love Thailand. been here for 18 years, have an extensive family here, and have seen the bouncing ball go every which way. Don't let it get you. I have"endured" about similar length of time here and enjoyed similar social life, but on the contrary I can see, that there is light at the end of the tunnel! I am saddened that the world is laughing at Thailand now. And the beat goes on...

Sure it will go on, and hey if "the world" is laughing is o.k. too, better then crying!

[Thai at Heart]

Shawn Crispin has a piece up at Asia Times on todays verdict. Worth a read imho:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JJ22Ae02.html

Edited to add: it includes an anonymous government supporter mentioning torching the supreme administrative court

Well at least that appears to be written from his instead of Sondhi's heart.

[SpaceKadet]

.....No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important???

Gutsy and serious stuff Sir!

So as long as... money flows it doesn't matter, in fact nothing at all matters?

Are you serious?

Always when I read "strong fist, xxx need a strong leader, etc etc etc" I have to shout "Heil Hitler"

Who was also democratically elected leader, ponder on that...

[Gonzo the Face]

Read this carefully:

The court found that Thaksin had violated Article 100 and Article 102 of the National Counter Corruption Act, which states that government officials, including prime ministers, and their spouses are prohibited from entering into or having interests in contracts with state agencies under their supervision.

Now why wasn't she considered for guilt. They stated she wasn't a gov't employee.

I read the above taken from the constitutional law as stating" AND THEIR SPOUSES"

I cannot beleive the framers of the constitutional thought all spouses both husband and wife would be working for the government .

I , personally , do not interpret the written statement to discount her from prosecution.

Tell me if you read and understand differently.

Gonzo

[john b good]

Thaksin guilty in land case, gets 2-year imprisonment

Thaksin Shinawatra sentenced to two years in jail

BANGKOK: -- The Supreme Court Tuesday found former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra guilty in the Ratchada land case.

He was sentenced to 2 years in jail.

Pojaman Shinawatra, his wife, was found not guilty and the court revoked arrest warrant against her.

The court found that Thaksin had violated Article 100 and Article 102 of the National Counter Corruption Act, which states that government officials, including prime ministers, and their spouses are prohibited from entering into or having interests in contracts with state agencies under their supervision.

-- The Nation 2008-10-21

it is bloody shame......

I can not understand, how many pople here and now are happy to se Mr. Taksin Jail.

I ask myself why???

some of you people supported him in the past, and now you are happy to see him go!!!! shame, shame, shame

He still is my Idol....

Well it doesn't say much for your standards does it

Edited October 21, 2008 by john b good

[Bruce1]

Assuming the legal process is valid, it's a good verdict for the reputaiton of the Thai legal system. And it sets a useful precedent for the LOS to oppose T's attempts to gain asylum elsewhere. olpe the British Ambassador is taking clsoe notes for his advice to London.

The tragedy of T is he did some good with some mainly economic policies, but appears to have lacked the character to avoid the temptation to break the law himself. A very flawed character.

[Kna]

Pic of Ratchadapisek land that send Toxin to Jail.

2 years was too light, you say? Don't worry there are 15 more cases waiting for him in court. Oh and for his wife she's not guilty, sure. but if she comes back she'll still has to go to jail because of bail jumping

So...please come back, Mr. T

[Gravelrash]

With both Thaksin and Pojaman now being convicted criminals, I wonder if both did get extradited back and imprisoned if they would allow conjugal visits between them?

I don't believe corruption sentences entail cruel and unusual punishment.

[loganberry]

The government has always been great at "formulation" of policy, but what everyone seems to optimistically ignore is the long-proven fact that the government has no effectiveness on the implementation or follow-through end. Just like everything else it is still a "say one thing" and "do another" society. Will he ever serve a day in actual prison? Not without severe reform... the kind of reform that would never take place. Regardless of how much blame people put on certain political figures or parties, Thai politics is a product of Thai society -- not the other way around. A grassroots movement to change societal values is needed in order to secure real change in the government - with or without fair elections. Some say a "grassroots" movement has already taken place several times and had no effect. Yes, they have but on such a small and insignificant scale that the effects are short-lived and more of a trend than a real movement.

From all this, I sometimes wish Thailand would be temporarily colonized by a foreign power. Then hopefully it would have the foundation to grow in modern society like Singapore or Hong Kong has.

Your comments are welcome.

Edited October 21, 2008 by consultingasia

[mickba]

The BBC is reporting that Thaksin expected a guilty verdict. He also stated that he is not in fact seeking asylum in the UK.

Well that means:

1. He is so rich he can stay there forever

2. He is a British Citizen

3. He knows old Somchai is gonna pull a constitutional ammendment and allow him to come marching home again.

4. He plans on doing the time

5. He is gonna relocate to some West Indian paradise and tax haven

6. He is going to lead a band of mercenaries to take Thailand

7. He is lying

8. Something quite ludicrous

I thought I read that he couldn't/wouldn't apply for asylum until/unless Thailand applied for extradition?

Is that likely?

[Gravelrash]

The only surprise is that PAD must be very worried. If you get convicted with a 5 to 4 margin, it means that the highest people in this country were not be able to intimidate 4 very import judges. Given the fact that the plot of land is not seized that he was not convicted for misuse of power, there is hope that he will be able to keep a substantial part of his money. And with money dear people he would be able to retake what is rightfully his. Power.

Another Troll?

Anyone that questions your polarized view of the world is a troll? Character assassination or simplistic name calling is the simple recourse of a simple mind not liking his simple views questioned. This in no way endorses that post, just your response.

What did they cry in the inquisition - ah yes...heretic. Genuine trolls are one thing, but not anyone that exposes a view different to yours.

[tracer5050]

Just a moveto keep him out of the kingdom.

[Greenside]

Well he'll probably be back in a while and what with the remission they'll grant him for the time he's already served er....spent in England he'll be a free man.

[midas]

BBC world just reported that Thailand will now apply for extradition

but the reporter said the British Government could object if they thought

he would not receive a fair trial ?? But hold on a minute he has

already been found guilt and sentenced ??

So can the British justifiably refuse to extradite him back here ?

[animatic]

Thaksin guilty in land case, gets 2-year imprisonment

Thaksin Shinawatra sentenced to two years in jail

BANGKOK: -- The Supreme Court Tuesday found former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra guilty in the Ratchada land case.

He was sentenced to 2 years in jail.

Pojaman Shinawatra, his wife, was found not guilty and the court revoked arrest warrant against her.

The court found that Thaksin had violated Article 100 and Article 102 of the National Counter Corruption Act, which states that government officials, including prime ministers, and their spouses are prohibited from entering into or having interests in contracts with state agencies under their supervision.

-- The Nation 2008-10-21

it is bloody shame......

I can not understand, how many pople here and now are happy to se Mr. Taksin Jail.

I ask myself why???

some of you people supported him in the past, and now you are happy to see him go!!!! shame, shame, shame

He still is my Idol....

If you are going to troll at least try to be smart about it.

Idol worship is a sin...

You are clearly either blind to his faults or.... well we can't say that directly.

Employment opportunities do exist.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

He is a case study.

Go forth and sin no more.

[german73]

I got told in a Thai jail with enough money, you have rooms, office own chef, fax internet, phone etc etc etc....

Just a question of money.

TRUE

[animatic]

.....No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important???

Gutsy and serious stuff Sir!

So as long as... money flows it doesn't matter, in fact nothing at all matters?

Are you serious?

Always when I read "strong fist, xxx need a strong leader, etc etc etc" I have to shout "Heil Hitler"

Such wonderful Buddhist ideals you espouse Mr. Big.

"So long as Thailand propers".... ahh PROSPERS maybe?

The problem with strong fists, they also want you to ACT proper,

like THEY see proper.

Well when that 'strong fist' comes we'll send him right to your door!

So you can try a test run and see if YOU get in line big time.

Edited October 21, 2008 by animatic

[steveromagnino]

WE ARE a naive bunch(Most of "Us")!

These laws ARE the Junta's "New"amendments to the constitution! RE: Thaksin was within the Code of law At said time the "Land" deal was

made.

His wife did NOT get the land cheap! She tenured this highest bid!776Million bht for 33 rai.The commitee representatives voted that her bid won!The land was being sold by the Thai Developement authority. 776 million + buildings on that barren land would have been a sweet deal for the local inhabitants of this BKK center.

By the way can anyone tell us WHO has "The Arabian Blue Diamond"?

The land deal you claim was so above board had 3 parties tendering; three of them closely related to TRT (Land and House, as I assume you know, are one of the major backers of TRT; they were the reason for unlocking the property industry into a boom in 2003 - the other being Khunying Or with SC Asset); Noble was founded by the family of a close associate of Chavalit and in fact the former Deputy Finance Minister who served alongside Thaksin in the 1996-97 period prior to Chavalit taking the country in crisis.

Do you not think that had this been a real auction, that you would have seen a more fair representation of bidders than 3 closely related parties?

The land is worth way more than this period. I know for a fact that one of my major clients was told to steer clear of the bid process as it was a lock; almost every other expert in real estate has said similarly. That was not the period to do business against TRT as people like UCOM and Phayatai Hospital discovered.

Basically, the true price was something close to double what was actually paid, as any real estate person will tell you know. That is a prime location to do a high end family compound type development or several low rise developments.

You do understand this is how auctions get won right - how do you think most of the suppliers bid for the airport? To build the CDMA network? The underground trains?

It merely requires assistance on the inside to ensure the difficulty to bid in a way that matches all criteria.

In this case, it was completely brazen.

It might be small fry, but it is pretty blatant abuse of power. I disagree with the decision - should have been 10 years, should have been both of them; despite the advice as mentioned by Shawn Crispin, I think at least some glance was taken at popularity with regards to the final decision.

As for your comment, he was in breach of the constitution at that time. The reason he wished to change the current constitution would not get him off, but it would deny the right of the ASC to push the charges against him as they would not exist, and then the whole proceedings would be perhaps more open to 'influence' as his asset concealment case is alleged to have been.

Ah well, let's see what one of USA's largest PR and lobbying firms decides to issue as their press release, er, I mean their client's press release tonight.

As for the Blue diamond, I am sure you can ask Pongpol Adireksarn former TRT MP, related to then police chief Bramarn Adireksarn where they are - maybe he has an idea. Also Thaksin aide Chavalit was in charge of the operation at the time as I recall, he might also know.

Your hero Thaksin didn't do anything to normalise relationship with the Saudi Arabia during his term, so we can probably expect his party people at least some of them were filthy; and anyhow, let's be careful where it leads, perhaps may lead to an unelected official who was going to be on the board of Ample Rich but eventually had to turn it down due to political pressure - is this some sort of scandal or just widely known?

Edited October 21, 2008 by steveromagnino

[animatic]

Thaksin guilty in land case, gets 2-year imprisonment

Thaksin Shinawatra sentenced to two years in jail

BANGKOK: -- The Supreme Court Tuesday found former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra guilty in the Ratchada land case.

He was sentenced to 2 years in jail.

Pojaman Shinawatra, his wife, was found not guilty and the court revoked arrest warrant against her.

The court found that Thaksin had violated Article 100 and Article 102 of the National Counter Corruption Act, which states that government officials, including prime ministers, and their spouses are prohibited from entering into or having interests in contracts with state agencies under their supervision.

-- The Nation 2008-10-21

He nearly escaped again.It was 5:4.

The bizarre thing is that only 5 of the 9 thought he knew his wife was spending such a

vast sum of money....

Well that depends on who REALLY wears the pants in the family...

We know his sister wears them in her house.

Potjamin likely has free reign of terror in hers.

One thing I think is central to these men is their womens drivenness.

Even the lowest massage girl group will ALL try and one up the other

with a better farang boyfriend catch and wave him in the others face.

All are keeping up with the Jones as a daily mantra of life.

Every woman will push her man to appear to be BIGGER than the neighbors.

The farm will get mortgaged for a BIGGER truck, cause the neighbors got a bigger truck.

So I can see the status conscious women in the Thaksin clan NEVER tollerating a down hill slide,

Even a decent into what could ONLY be supreme SPLENDOR for most people.

It is STILL a loss of status and makes their girlfriends just a little closer to their level,

and so more snippy or familiar. Queen bee just a little bit more commentable.

I have seen a room polarize into 3-4 levels of Thai women who won't/can't associate

with nice people they talked with earlier, because they NOW KNOW their status is

too high or too low to talk too. Money and power being the BIG status creators.

I could see the look on Potjamins face when she was convicted Thaksin was grim,

but SHE was shell shocked, she had NEVER contennanced a fall from grace like that.

Nothing lower than a jalbird on her list.

Surprise Potty your new face has numbers under it...

So it makes one wonder what kind of preasure these women put on their men at that level.

Every otyher woman is plotting and scheming to rise to their level,

and every slight slip

is one notch closer to being over taken...

Makes you wonder what Thaksin and Yaowapa's mother was like,

that these two children are so DRIVEN,

and yet their children, well the cute ones anyway, are NOT.

Chinchila seems to be business oriented,

but no dates might make you that way...

[pontius]

People with a lot of money will always have it easier, and I don't care how great his time in jail will be or if he'll ever go (which I doubt).

The important thing is that he cannot just return to his own country as an honest man, and that must annoy the "h" out of a persona like him.

[steffi]

Has his diplomatic passport been revoked yet?

It only truly hurts them if and only if the charges eventually trickle down to his kids since they are the ones most inconvenienced by not being able to travel.

People with a lot of money will always have it easier, and I don't care how great his time in jail will be or if he'll ever go (which I doubt).

The important thing is that he cannot just return to his own country as an honest man, and that must annoy the "h" out of a persona like him.

[animatic]

WE ARE a naive bunch(Most of "Us")!

These laws ARE the Junta's "New"amendments to the constitution! RE: Thaksin was within the Code of law At said time the "Land" deal was

made.

His wife did NOT get the land cheap! She tenured this highest bid!

Meanwhile the PAD has created a vaccume of security here in LOS.And the criminals are rapidly understanding that "Anarchy" can be lucrative!

Ex

I can suggest several alternatives to the Crappy Biased Media coverage and the PAD brainwash!( PM me!) T

Actually lifted the average Thai living standard 100%.

As well as creation of a somewhat well fubnctioning and secure legal system.

At least 50 Million Thai's need to be "Brainwashed" by PAD.

Peace!

*sigh*

No, the deal wasn't legal when it was made. That is what the case was about. Not a retroactive application of some new law. You are sadly mistaken.

No, neither Bush nor Blair organized a campaign where internal blacklists of individuals [of their own citizens!] was targeted for termination.

Vacuum of security? Really? The same amount of shit happens as it always has, get real.

Besides the appallingly bad english,

factually it is a tissue of the thinest veneer covering NOTHING.

They broke the laws of the '97 constitution.

Besides the fact that changing the constitution

does NOT change all other laws on the books,

ONLY the constitution.

I had hoped we had seen the last of this BS.

But IT comes back EXACTLY on cue to suit the masters bidding it seems.

But we ain't buying troll salad today.

Edited October 21, 2008 by animatic

[DonGato]

The fact that he finally got determined as a criminal is such a huge landmark in constitutional history... that -even when everyone would love to see him pay for his actions- doesn't matter if he comes to serve the sentence or not... the verdict -as a historical fact itself- is enormous!