Stay Longest On? Ed Visa Or Non-immigrant B With Work Permit

[karlski]

Hi,

I am on a Tourist Visa that has 3 Ranong runs left on it after I went to Phuket Town to get a renewal stamp on it.

I spent 35,000 baht on a Thai Language school in Patong, Areeya's Language School.

The gist being that I get to apply for a 1 year ED visa.

Question #1. I've now been told "no way, you'll never get to just go to Phuket town for stamps once every 3 months".

Is this true, not true? What's the current advice as of Oct 2008?

---

I have also talked at length with many friends and contacts in Kata that i've known for a couple of years, managers of companies, that sort of thing.

One of them desperately pleaded with me, along with his Thai wife, and talked about the great possibility that if I use this ED Visa, i'll be screwed after a year. I might end up with one of those "magic" stamps on the last page of my passport that says in Thai fine print "no further entries" or something to that effect.

#2. Is this true? Is one kind of Visa type likely to kill off your chances at later types? It's all about the stamps in your passport isn't it? What's in computers online for immigration to access, and what just a black stamp from some embassy or checkpoint. Should I avoid the ED Visa for this reason?

They both said, along with other folks, that even though the cost of starting a company is high, and filled with much heartache a tears at times, that it's the longest term way to go because a WORK PERMIT is really the mainstay of LONG TERM presence here.

I have a Thai girlfriend, and she's got an accounting degree, albeit from a vocational college.

I also have been given a lot of advice about which lawyers and accountants to trust, not trust, etc. as far as company formation and avoiding horrors.

I have till November 4th to make my first Ranong run, and 90 days after that my tourist visa will have expired.

I know I plan to be here quite some time, my girlfriend, no surprise, wants to get married and settle down.

Having a company might not be as hard as it would be without her and the accounting skills. I got advice a month ago on all the numbers associated with running a firm out here, and that I should choose a very very highly complex job title/service for my work permit, e.g. scuba is OUT, and Linux Kernel Hacking for Cluster Servers is IN. Luckily Linux config files are in english, and that I can profess to practicing such murky technical arts.

-I doubt i'll get any money back from the school, and will likely study Thai there anyways, even if I don't get the ED Visa. It will have lost/wasted money, but if you say here forever or long term, you should be used to that right? The rules change every 3 months.

[ubonjoe]

First if school can supply docmuments required by 7.8 of police order on page 5 at the following link.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

You can get a visa for up to one year. But most likely it will be every 90 days that you have to get another extension (1900 baht every time).

I don't know where they got these ideas about being black listed or whatever about the ED visa/extension.

You have already paid money to the school and if I recall (from your previous posts) correctly you have already been informed by them that you can get the visa. Get the visa they promised. This is a good way to save making border/visa runs on a regular basis. You can always change it later if you find a better way.

Yes setting up a company is one way to get a one year extension. But it is not easy and may require border/visa runs until it starts showing income.

You mentioned marriage that would get you a 1 year visa as long as you can show the income. (page 8 7.17 of police order). It even comes with benefits concerning company formation and work permits.

Its all up to you of course.

Joe

Edited October 25, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

Regarding question 1, you will need to actualy study a minimum hours every week and report to immigration with a letter from the school every 90 days. In that sense it is not an automatic extension every 90 days. No study, no extension of stay.

[fareedhuda]

Ok ... take it from an expert . I am student here. You have to go to school and meet their minimum attendence requirement. I know someone and he didn't attend classes and thus got kicked out and was about to lose his visa. I think he went back to his country and managed to get into another school here and came back. But I think he is not attending classes there either. So if you are not going to attend class then you have either find a way to get tight with the teachers so just give you the attendence anyway, or you need to be on some other visa than ED.

If you are on an ED visa, firstly you get a 1 year visa but stay permit is only 1 month. But then before the month ends you will have to extend it. Then you get that one year permit. I think I spent about $100 on that. (or maybe less ... I don't remember). Anyway, once thats done you will have to report every 90 days. Its just a formality, they just need to know where you are staying and stuff. They don't take any money for that. That is free!! And everytime you get out of Thailand you will be taking a re-entry permit in order to come back and that 90 days gets renewed. Also, if you miss the 90 day report then there is per day fine of 500 baht.

Hope this helps.

[ubonjoe]

Anyway, once thats done you will have to report every 90 days. Its just a formality, they just need to know where you are staying and stuff. They don't take any money for that. That is free!! And everytime you get out of Thailand you will be taking a re-entry permit in order to come back and that 90 days gets renewed. Also, if you miss the 90 day report then there is per day fine of 500 baht.

Hope this helps.

If you get a 1 year extension or not depends on the type school and etc. Lanquage school students normally only get 90 day extensions.

Everybody on a 1 year extensions do these reports.

You are confusing late reports with overstay when you mentioned the fine.

The fine for late reports is 2000 Baht. And also you have 7 days before and after to do the report.

Edited October 25, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Maestro]

If you are on an ED visa, firstly you get a 1 year visa but stay permit is only 1 month. But then before the month ends you will have to extend it. Then you get that one year permit. I think I spent about $100 on that. (or maybe less ... I don't remember). Anyway, once thats done you will have to report every 90 days. Its just a formality, they just need to know where you are staying and stuff. They don't take any money for that. That is free!! And everytime you get out of Thailand you will be taking a re-entry permit in order to come back and that 90 days gets renewed. Also, if you miss the 90 day report then there is per day fine of 500 baht.

The above post contains a few errors that need correcting.

1. The non-ED visa you receive from a Thai embassy/consulate – with the necessary paperwork from the school – is valid for travel to Thailand within 90 days from the date of issue. Upon arrival in Thailand you receive permission to stay for 90 days from the date of arrival.

2. Before the 90 days of your permission to stay are up you must go to the local immigration office with the necessary papers from the school and apply for an extension of stay, fee 1,900 Baht. This extension of stay will be granted for 90 days at a time for as long as you continue your studies, except that after some years immigration may consider that you have studied long enough and are no longer entitled to extensions for study. The websites of some Thai language schools mention a maximum of three years, others five years.

3. The fine of 500 Baht per day, maximum 20,000 Baht, comes into play if you overstay, ie if you do not get a new extension of stay or leave Thailand before your 90-permission to stay expires.

--

Maestro

[monty]

The ED visa works as Maestro indicates, although normally valid for 1 year.

When you enter Thailand you'll get 90 days stamped, after which you have to go to immigration and present paperwork confirming attendance of classes after which you will be granted another 90 days (1,900 Baht).

After 1 year you'll need to go get a new ED visa, for which the school will again supply you with the necessary paperwork. Then the 90 day extension stuff can start again.

This can normally be repeated 3 times (total of 3 years), but exceptionally longer.

The work permit route is expensive and close to impossible for a new upstart company.

Forming the company and getting the work permit is relatively straight forward. It's getting the 1 year extension where immigration demands a lot of things.

You need 4 employees, of which taxes and social security has to be paid for for the previous 3 months. At application of your extension pictures of your employees at work have to be included.

You need a minimum salary of 50,000 Baht/month and pay taxes on that amount.

The company needs to show audited book keeping for the previous year, showing that revenue has been declared (and paid tax on) amounting to at least a full years' worth of foreigners salary (equals 12 X 50,000 Baht = 600,000 Baht).

Immigration will come and check at your registered offices that your employees are actually working there (as per the pictures submitted) and that they are not just paper employees you just pay the taxes for!

ETC...

[karlski]

Horror Stories:

Yeah, my Thai girlfriend's Thai boss and German husband seemed to have simply faced their own unique rough ride. He seemed bent on "saving" me from certain doom of getting an ED visa.

That it would decimate any chance I had of staying long term via some spooky "black stamp" on the last page of my passport or other cabal act on the part of immigration to force farangs out that had certain visa types.

That without a work permit situation, I was toast in the long run. My future bride to be would be left crying on the bus back to her village as I got trebucheted across the pacific back home or worse. [it would have to be a trebuchet, catapult wouldn't work, trust me on this.]

I kept mentioning how much research I did, both on ThaiVisa, and around Kata with friends in the know, -and up to then hadn't found cause to worry. His response, "bah, the internet is #ull#hit, all info is outdated, the rules change every 3 months and no one ever understands them!".

His spooky stories needed to be checked out. I've taken more note of how much beer chang I see him knock down... Is this guy some kind of immigration einstein. Perhaps not. Just got punted around by the system a lot.

Non-ED Visa:

It seems like this Visa is a great option for me. I seem to be one of the few people there to actually learn to speak, read, write, and perhaps even think, in Thai. These goals, idealistic as they sound, serve some kind of deeper purpose, on every single immigration issue/ visa transition i'm going to come across.

My theory and hope is that I exhaust the ED visa by actually learning Thai. By then, I will either be married for some time, or working for a firm that gives me a work permit for Linux/UNIX/INTERNET consulting because I know Thai. Or both.

Right now Penang is being recommended by the school as the visa run to make with my visa paperwork prepared by the school.

Is this correct? If so any recommendations about who to arrange through? I see TV has some offers. Anyone done their ED visa this way?

Later for Company, if at all:

This season's going to be slow, the world economy is slow. I'd be asking for certain doom trying to start a new firm from scratch.

This is where i've heard the most horror stories come from. And then some. If I start one it'll be solid. But this does not seem like the time. I've only been back 3 months.

My lady says if I have 1 million baht in bank, i'm solid for a year:

Is this true? I don't have that much, and even if I did I think i'd rather shoot myself letting it sit idly by. You only live once. She also said that was the normal amount a husband gives the Thai family when marriage happens. I sort of chuckled at that one. Maybe i'm uninformed, but what would they even do with that amount of money in Nakhon Si Thammarat. What would any of us do with that much dough.

Immigration in General:

In working in the immigration sector in my own country, it really does seem that even with all the corruption and cabal/intrigue, there are still a few solid paths a person can take. It's when people seek to "tweak" or "game" the system that all the conflicting data arises. Countries everywhere do seem to want you to be some kind of asset, without taking away from the natives. That in itself is a fine line. But is detectable, visible, finite. It doesn't seem as blurred and murky as my lady's jaded work contacts make it out to be. Thanks for continuing to provide a clear signal among all the chatter and radio noise. This particular question really got some solid answers.

[ubonjoe]

Horror Stories:

Yeah, my Thai girlfriend's Thai boss and German husband seemed to have simply faced their own unique rough ride. He seemed bent on "saving" me from certain doom of getting an ED visa.

His spooky stories needed to be checked out. I've taken more note of how much beer chang I see him knock down... Is this guy some kind of immigration einstein. Perhaps not. Just got punted around by the system a lot.

The only thing I can think of other than the beer chang factor is some case where somebody got caught up in a scam or was stretching the visa to the limits and/or wasn't even going to school. As mentioned already class attendence is one of the requirements to get extensions.

Non-ED Visa:

You have done your homework and it is the best option for now.

Right now Penang is being recommended by the school as the visa run to make with my visa paperwork prepared by the school.

For a single entry yes. You can do the trip on your own. Most people reccomend using an agent to get the visa done. Here is a link to a quest house that has an agent that has given good results. Contacting by email seems to work good. http://www.banananewguesthouse.com/

Later for Company, if at all: Good idea.

My lady says if I have 1 million baht in bank, i'm solid for a year:

It all depends upon the life style you live. Stay on budget. The dowry amount mentioned is way to much.

Immigration in General:

Just as long as you have all the right paperwork they normally are not a problem. But each office can be different and with their own peculiar requirements.

Hope this helps.

Good luck

Joe

Edit: Topic on dowry: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

Edited October 26, 2008 by ubonjoe

[monty]

I think for you the best option would be:

As you are learning Thai anyway, go for the ED visa. Peace of mind for at least a few years (if you keep on going to school! The minimum is 180 hours/year)

It looks like you are getting married in the near future.

Once you are married, the only thing you need is a combined family income of 45,000 Baht.

Which means that you can start a company (easy), get a work permit as managing director (relatively easy) and declare a salary of 45,000 Baht or over and pay tax on that. At that point immigration is not interested anymore in your company, employees, bookkeeping etc, but only in your income (proven by tax slips) and your marital status.

Alternatively, get your wife to pay tax on a fictitious 45,000 Baht income (easy to do as a sole trader) and presto, the 45,000 Baht rule is satisfied. Yearly tax burden will be under 30,000 Baht. No accountant needed, easy to do yourself once shown how!

[Mario2008]

For married persons a family income of 40,000 is required, not 45,000.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf 7.17

[ubonjoe]

Good post monty.

One small error though it is 40,000 baht for an extension not 45,000.

[monty]

Ooops, indeed 40,000!

Should refrain from posting till my morning coffee is digested

[karlski]

I decided to do the ED Visa, it seems like the most logical choice in my situation. And speaking what rudimentary Thai I have learned is already paying off immensely.

My papers from the ministry are said to be arriving on November 5th. My 30 day extension on my tourist visa expires Nov 4th, which leaves me with 3 x 30 day Ranong runs. I will likely make a visa run on Monday Nov 3rd to Ranong so I can attend my 3rd class on the 4th, (not missing any days).

I'll make the run to Penang likely using the agent from http://www.banananewguesthouse.com/ ubonjoe noted.

I'll check all the paperwork both with the school in person, i'll email PDF's of it to the Penang visa agent, to make sure all is in order.

I'll update this post with the info as it comes in so we can give future users a sense of how this process worked at this time. It may change or evolve, but perhaps not drastically.

---------------

The marriage option information is deeply useful. We just visited a bunch of my lady's friends, and are being offered way better rents and homes than typical Farang prices, in areas one might only dream of living. I like the company formation benefits for down the road in a couple of years. Does the 40,000 baht income have to be made in Thailand?

[hyls]

I've been granted a 1-year extension of my ED-visa recently, due to the decent paperwork from my university here in Thailand. The extension seemed fairly easy. Nevertheless I've decided to quit studying here, but I still want to stay in Thailand until next year April when me, my wife and our child plan to go on a holiday trip to my home country.

I paid tuition fees for the first trimester until the beginning of January, and if I don't retain my student status I'll be automatically deregistered as a student. According to the uni immigration will be informed within 2 weeks.

Anyone got experience with this situation? When will my visa be expired? I assume that's mid January. What's the best way to stay longer in Thailand? Try to extend my student status with the university or go a Thai Embassy abroad for a tourist visa?

[ubonjoe]

I've been granted a 1-year extension of my ED-visa recently, due to the decent paperwork from my university here in Thailand. The extension seemed fairly easy. Nevertheless I've decided to quit studying here, but I still want to stay in Thailand until next year April when me, my wife and our child plan to go on a holiday trip to my home country.

I paid tuition fees for the first trimester until the beginning of January, and if I don't retain my student status I'll be automatically deregistered as a student. According to the uni immigration will be informed within 2 weeks.

Anyone got experience with this situation? When will my visa be expired? I assume that's mid January. What's the best way to stay longer in Thailand? Try to extend my student status with the university or go a Thai Embassy abroad for a tourist visa?

From the date the university notifies immigration that you are no longer a student your visa will end and you have to leave the country. From that date every day you remain in the country will be 500 baht for an overstay.

You can get a 60 day tourist visa (1000 baht) at the Thai consulate in Vientiane (or any other nearby consulate) that can be extended for 30 days (1900 baht).

The choice is yours in how you obtain the additional time you need in order to stay to April.

[Mario2008]

Your permission to stay expiress the day you quit your education, not the day university informs immigration.

You say your child is here also, if he is going to school he can get a education visa for himself. You could try to get a depended visa based on that, for which you need to show 500,000 baht at a Thai bank account for 3 months when you extend the permission to stay based on a dependent. Otherwise it's tourist visa's.

[hyls]

Hey Mario and Ubonjoe thanks for your replies. I'm not interested in a non-immigrant depended visa anymore, since I've got only about 3-4 months left to stay in Thailand anyway. That can be covered with a tourist visa just as well. Actually I haven't officially quitted studying and I'm still officially a student at the moment. I've just asked for a temporary leave. I also don't see how immigration would know whether I do actually study or not. I suppose they can only know after they've been informed about my quitting.

So who's right in this case, Mario or Ubonjoe? I hope that Ubonjoe's assertion is true in my case.

[Mario2008]

It depends on the university. They will have to inform immigration that you quit your study and by what date. The date the university will mention is the day your permission to stay expired.

[hyls]

Also I have to report myself at immigration, for notifying I'm staying longer than 90 days in the Kingdom, on 29 December. That's still for my current student non-immigrant visa. My visa hasn't been terminated officially yet, but as far as I know the university will inform immigration in the beginning of January.

I've decided to go to Laos and apply for a double entry tourist visa a few days before the notification is due and well before the university informs immigration about my quitting. Do I still have to go to immigration somewhere in Thailand separately before the 29th or can I just cross the Thai-Laos border and Immigration at Nong Kai will allow that as a 'notification' as well?

Necessary to tell the officers at the Thai embassy in Viengtian anything about this? Will they issue a tourist visa before my non-immigrant B visa's officially terminated?

Don't know what to do. Who can help me?

[Maestro]

No need to go to immigration, no need to tell the Thai consulate in Vientiane anything. Just get your tourist visa, return to Thailand with it, and your extension of stay for study will automatically be invalid.

--

Maestro

[hyls]

Thanks, Maestro. Exactly what I wanted to know. Also I realized yesterday night, long after writing the reply, that when crossing the border without getting a re-entry permit at immigration, something I've done before, the visa will be automatically invalid anyway. I'll keep quiet about it.......