I Just Love The Greenback

[henryalleman]

This post ignores reality. You use the the CIA factbook itself to make your point. What are you looking at. Only two countries are ahead of the US in the EU (My post explicitly made comparisons to the EU, not all countries). Ireland has roughly the same per capita GDP.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...r/2004rank.html

Not only are we third, look where the EU economic powers are located on the list. 11 countries(lol) Get your facts right!!!

If you are going to criticize my claims take a reality pill before doing so! The funniest caim made was that 10 EU countries surpass the US in per capita GDP. What cave have you been living in or are you just a nut case.

Yes, that is a bit odd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...nal)_per_capita

The link (wiki) doesn't use PPP as you wrongly claim in your prior post. There is a link to PPP data listed though and go figure it doesn't verify your claim. To top it off the wiki data doesn't match what is listed at the CIA Fact book site that they claim to gotten the data from.

Just do some real Internet research and hopefully you might get to the truth. Show me where the CIA fact book lists the US per capita GDP worse than 10 EU countries. You can't!!!! Stop posting complete crap and try to make a factual post.

I had actually not noticed this post the first time around.

You are absolutely correct, the wiki does NOT use PPP (more on that later), that might be why this text is in the link : GDP_(nominal)

I realize that I had made some erroneous statements regarding relative GDPs using PPP, but on reading more about GDP I've come to the conclusion that PPP is pretty useless for what you want to show.

I think you will agree that nominal / Official Exchange Rate GDP is better suited to do comparisons of 'economic clout'.

PPP is takes into account the relative cost of goods, hence countries wherein goods are cheaper have relatively higher GDP per capita, I doubt that is usefull for you in this case.

You are also correct in stating that the wiki data is not a straight copy from the CIA factbook, there is an important reason for that; The CIA factbook only contains GDP per capita in PPP form. If you look at the source for the CIA column you will see how they have gotten those strange numbers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ita#cite_note-2

I double dare you to go thru the list of european countries and do the simple arithmetic of dividing nominal or Official exchange Rate GDP by population and comparing it to the US.

Should you be too lazy or if the idea of division makes you dizzy, fear not!

http://www.economist.com/countries/USA/pro...ofile-FactSheet

The ever poignant and delightful Economist has done some of the dirty work for you. Granted you still have to click around a bit to get to the countries but I guess if it were easy it wouldn't be fun :|

US:GDP per head (US$; market exchange rate) 45,851

UK:GDP per head (US$; market exchange rate) 45,338

DK: GDP per head (US$; market exchange rate) 57,206

You might be interested in your friend, Finland home of Nokia that lives the Finnish dream of developing from a company that produced toilet paper to designer handsets.

FI: GDP per head (US$; market exchange rate) 46,704

I am sure you get the idea, please feel free to check for yourself, you might also want to send angry emails to the Economist regarding their patently wrongheaded data and Anti-American bias etc. etc.

I would love to know which basket of goods they used to calculate their PPP weights. But that is for another day.

What I will share with you are my thoughts on the discrepancy between PPP and Nominal GDP.

(if you are tired of reading you may substitute reading this part with imagining me whispering into your ear these words of wisdom : 'you suck')

In the cases where there is high discrepancy between PPP and Nominal GDP (and Nominal is higher) It indicates higher costs of goods, there are I think 2 major reasons for this, the most important part is probably that in the case of especially the nordic countries the income gap is relatively small, the outliers are few and most are snugly curled up in the middle of the bell.

This means that goods are able to be priced higher and still reach the majority of the market. You compare this to the US where there pricing threshold for basic necessities such as food is quite lower due to the sea of underpaid consumers that constitute if not a viable market then atleast an unfortunate necessity.

from the CIA factbook: Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.

Another reason is ofcourse the nastiest 3-letter word in existence: Tax.

Denmark for example has 25% value added tax on most goods and then luxury tax on top of that on a host of things notably cars have an 180% import tax.

However that does seem to pay for things like free university and universal health care.

To what degree that is actually factored into GDP is not known to me.

This might also be of interest to you:

Statisticians have also criticized the validity of international statistical comparisons using national accounts data, on the ground that estimates are not compiled in a uniform way. For example, Jochen Hartwig provides evidence to show that "the divergence in growth rates [of real GDP] between the U.S. and the EU since 1997 can be explained almost entirely in terms of changes to deflation methods that have been introduced in the U.S. after 1997, but not - or only to a very limited extent - in Europe".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNSNA

As to the mention of 'does microsoft owe more money than the local bookstore'

uhm well you mean relative to its income surely?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...r/2186rank.html

The US is the 27th most indebted country relative to GDP at 60.8% of annual GDP with no surplus in sight.

Much love and all the best,

unomi

The debt ratio of a country tells not everything, what is even so important is how much of that debt is in foreign hands. If a country have an high debt but if it is internal and not international its less dangerous.

[unomi]

Yes, and that is a bit of a worry, and an oddity (to my mind).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...y_external_debt

We see that many European countries are 2-3x GDP in debt.

The majority of this debt does not seem due to Government debt in most cases but largely due to corporate and personal debt?!

I suppose that when you consider that people take 30 year mortgages from banks that may have foreign stakeholders, it might look reasonable?

[PeaceBlondie]

,,,for posting my views on GDP i have to search for a paper which i wrote years ago.

Naam, I only wrote one paper on that subject, when it was called GNP. In 1960. Do you think much has changed?

[bingobongo]

the $ is not rising due to strength but due to the fact that those who owe dollars are being forced to settle up in cash as the debt bubble collapses, since it has gotten more difficlut to keep rolling the loans. The result is a global short-squeeze on the dollar and soon that squeeze will end.

The US fed will lower rates tomorrow (Wednesday) and then it will be time to strap in so plan accordingly

Edited October 28, 2008 by bingobongo

[Jingthing]

the $ is not rising due to strength but due to the fact that those who owe dollars are being forced to settle up in cash as the debt bubble collapses, since it has gotten more difficlut to keep rolling the loans. The result is a global short-squeeze on the dollar and soon that squeeze will end.

The US fed will lower rates tomorrow (Wednesday) and then it will be time to strap in so plan accordingly

I heard some boob box guy say that the dollar is enjoying a second coming as the preeminent reserve currency, that the Euro just isn't viable for that. In other words, bad but better than anything else. Also alot of international funds going into US dollar long term T-bills. Made sense to me.

[Naam]

,,,for posting my views on GDP i have to search for a paper which i wrote years ago.

Naam, I only wrote one paper on that subject, when it was called GNP. In 1960. Do you think much has changed?

i can't answer that question PB. the paper i wrote was from my perspective being a physicist/engineer and not based on what they lecture MBAs-to-be. after retiring i had ample time to do my own research and to arrive at my own conclusions which differ from those of the mainstream.

but whatever, the search for my paper on a dozen harddrives has to be postponed. reason: i had to cancel a medical procedure which was scheduled for next week in BKK and prepare for open heart surgery (multiple bypass) to be carried out in Germany.

it sounds ridiculous , but my biggest headache is presently how to leave my hi-tech home (only i know what has to be done if something does not work, e.g. water supply, etc.) in the care of rather helpless servants.

[Naam]

Siam-A, your claim is based on GDP per capita which is an irrelevant calculated average without any true meaning (except for eggheads teaching eggheads-to-be in universities). the same goes for GDP per se which contains irrelevant data. a good example for my claim is that GDP data contains salaries of soldiers, the production of weapons and the working "value" a hamburger flipper. i could go on adding another few hundred points but i prefer to rest my case

Naam, I do not argue against you. But if GDP includes all those things (and as unproductive as those jobs are, they do contribute to the national economy), then what does measure a nation's productivity? Or are these just silly measures that are far, far overemphasized? Thailand is struggling to have GDP growth when it needs something else, lots else.

PB, look at the two pairs of GDP per capita and do some logical thinking:

Germany $34,100

Luxembourg $79,400

Thailand $8,000

Iceland $40,400 = bankrupt country!

conclusion: GDP per capita = bullshit²

for posting my views on GDP i have to search for a paper which i wrote years ago.

Naam,

I don't think the GDP #s you listed show GDP isn't a good measure. Luxembourg (tiny population) is in great shape financially and Iceland made risky financial decisions that are now reeking havoc.

It's is just one of the means to measure economic strength. IMO, it is the far from perfect, but the single best source to measure a countries financial strength. If possible, I would rather measure happiness being the peacenic that I am.

i was trying to point out that GDP per capita is completely useless. others may differ from my opinion.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Naam

[unomi]

Sorry to hear about your need for surgery.

Best of luck as to the actual procedure and hope you have a speedy recovery.

Don't forget to stop by Tv now and then from Germany.

Also, burn the house down and see if a new one grows from the ashes.

[LaoPo]

............but whatever, the search for my paper on a dozen harddrives has to be postponed. reason: i had to cancel a medical procedure which was scheduled for next week in BKK and prepare for open heart surgery (multiple bypass) to be carried out in Germany.

it sounds ridiculous , but my biggest headache is presently how to leave my hi-tech home (only i know what has to be done if something does not work, e.g. water supply, etc.) in the care of rather helpless servants.

I'm shocked to hear that Naam; sent you a mail by PM.

LaoPo

[Naam]

Sorry to hear about your need for surgery. Best of luck as to the actual procedure and hope you have a speedy recovery.

Don't forget to stop by Tv now and then from Germany

Also, burn the house down and see if a new one grows from the ashes.

i'd consider that advice but now the rainy season is ending. for a new house to grow it takes a lot of watering

[Naam]

............but whatever, the search for my paper on a dozen harddrives has to be postponed. reason: i had to cancel a medical procedure which was scheduled for next week in BKK and prepare for open heart surgery (multiple bypass) to be carried out in Germany.

it sounds ridiculous , but my biggest headache is presently how to leave my hi-tech home (only i know what has to be done if something does not work, e.g. water supply, etc.) in the care of rather helpless servants.

I'm shocked to hear that Naam; sent you a mail by PM.

LaoPo

i'm not shocked LaoPo, but the Mrs will be right now she is sleeping peacefully).

[Carib]

,,,for posting my views on GDP i have to search for a paper which i wrote years ago.

Naam, I only wrote one paper on that subject, when it was called GNP. In 1960. Do you think much has changed?

i can't answer that question PB. the paper i wrote was from my perspective being a physicist/engineer and not based on what they lecture MBAs-to-be. after retiring i had ample time to do my own research and to arrive at my own conclusions which differ from those of the mainstream.

but whatever, the search for my paper on a dozen harddrives has to be postponed. reason: i had to cancel a medical procedure which was scheduled for next week in BKK and prepare for open heart surgery (multiple bypass) to be carried out in Germany.

it sounds ridiculous , but my biggest headache is presently how to leave my hi-tech home (only i know what has to be done if something does not work, e.g. water supply, etc.) in the care of rather helpless servants.

Naam, I hope you will be OK in Germany, and that what is ahead of you will go as you expect it to .

The house? It will be OK, it will be there when you get back, not all that much can really go wrong which will cause something beyond repair. I think I know what you mean, and how you feel about things like that, not really strange to me either...., BUT.... at the end of the day it is " just a house".

The ones occupying it, and their health are far more important. Good luck to you .

[Naam]

Naam, I hope you will be OK in Germany, and that what is ahead of you will go as you expect it to .

The house? It will be OK, it will be there when you get back, not all that much can really go wrong which will cause something beyond repair. I think I know what you mean, and how you feel about things like that, not really strange to me either...., BUT.... at the end of the day it is " just a house".

The ones occupying it, and their health are far more important. Good luck to you .

thanks Carib. i think there is some misunderstanding. i'm not worried about the house. it's our servants who live in the house and have no place else to go. they are my responsibility and i have to take care of them. they won't know what to do if the water or the electricity supply is cut off. bills have to be paid, etc., etc., etc.

[Carib]

Naam, I hope you will be OK in Germany, and that what is ahead of you will go as you expect it to .

The house? It will be OK, it will be there when you get back, not all that much can really go wrong which will cause something beyond repair. I think I know what you mean, and how you feel about things like that, not really strange to me either...., BUT.... at the end of the day it is " just a house".

The ones occupying it, and their health are far more important. Good luck to you .

thanks Carib. i think there is some misunderstanding. i'm not worried about the house. it's our servants who live in the house and have no place else to go. they are my responsibility and i have to take care of them. they won't know what to do if the water or the electricity supply is cut off. bills have to be paid, etc., etc., etc.

Yes, I misunderstood, the house was what I thought you were worried about. But it is the servants for whom you feel responsible. I am sure that Mrs Naam will be in touch with them, and will do some long distance "caring and guiding". Things always have nice ways of sorting themselves out in a way you least expect them to.

C

[unomi]

Oh, I misunderstood as well. Guess burning down the house wouldn't do..

Lock down the house, get a guard to look after it if it is susceptible to break-ins, give your staff a bag of money and let them go be with their families etc.

How long before you can/would fly back to Thailand under optimal circumstances?

[Naam]

back to the topic "I Just Love The Greenback"

i love it too and closed some hours ago my USD forward with a handsome profit. VegasVic will of course say that this was a mistake but i followed the german saying "a sparrow in the hand is better than a pigeon on the roof"

there is a similar saying in english ending with "...two birds in the bush" (i think).

[endure]

back to the topic "I Just Love The Greenback"

i love it too and closed some hours ago my USD forward with a handsome profit. VegasVic will of course say that this was a mistake but i followed the german saying "a sparrow in the hand is better than a pigeon on the roof"

there is a similar saying in english ending with "...two birds in the bush" (i think).

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...

Good luck with your operation Dr Naam

Come back soon...

[siamamerican]

You have grasped basic math – congrats!!! I would have never believed you could divide. Now, having shown us all your arithmetic prowess, how about surprising us all. First, what is the point of your above post??? I really doubt it is above my intellect, considering the messenger..

Why thank you I am also very proud of myself. But it is easy really, you should try it sometime..

To cater to the nonexistance of your attention span, the point is that it relates to this:

Hmmm, maybe because the US net worth(PPP) “PER CAPITA”trounces the EU. Yes, we do have much debt, but we also produce vast amounts of goods and services. Net worth is more important than debt. Basically we are substantially more wealthy than the EU per capita.

One of many sources to confirm the above fact.

http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/12/0...old-eu-by-alot/

There are only a few counties in the EU that are even remotely comparable to the US in financial strength. Tiny Luxembourg is the only one I think that has a higher GDP per capita than the US. The US GDP growth also has trounced the EU countries over the last 10 years, 20 years, 30 years...

People need to start looking at the real numbers and even take it a step further and look at them relative to other factors such as GDP. Does Microsoft have more debt than the local book store? Numbers and relativity in most cases tell the real story and too many ignore this fact.

I was merely trying to give you the 'real' numbers. Better yet, give you some tools where you might be able to work them out yourself rather than rely on sites like www.finlandforthought.net (i wonder how you found that site, and wonder more how you could think to use it to back up anything at all)

What figure(s) would a person of your superior intellect use to determine a countries economic strength. How about the number of dogs and cats per capita.

That is a truly interesting question and so is the idea that you present, one of your better.

These guys should have thought of that:http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/T...:408050,00.html

According to them the US still plays second fiddle to Denmark.

Honestly I have yet to read the whole thing but the 2nd Appendix has an overview of wealth as measured by them.

The whole question is a bit silly really, I mean its all about what you do with what you've got right? I answered simply because you were such a mark and I let my sense of play get the better of me. Who knows, perhaps debt really is the new wealth. Perhaps having 12.5% of your population under the poverty line is a sign of economic prowess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_economy

Feable attempt at humor.

So how do EU countries compare TODAY using exchange rate GDP numbers. Not so good – you have very small capacity to grasp finances. Don’t kid yourself – you are just making it more apparent to all.

So following your logic, considering the pound has lost roughly 40 percent of it value compared to the dollar, it is now well below the US in per capita GDP. Get a grip and look at the numbers logically.

Ofcourse the UK’s GDP isn’t down 40%, but using your flawed logic, that is what their exchange rate GDP #s would reflect.

Any more foolish logic youi want to share. Still get a kick out of your claim that 11 EU nations surpass the US in per capita GDP(PPP data).

This site sure brings out the nut cases with tiny noggins.

[unomi]

[siamamerican]

Please tell - what is the point of posting this link???? Do you have any thoughts about the video? You are an odd one and the video was waste of time.

[unomi]

Feable attempt at humor.

So how do EU countries compare TODAY using exchange rate GDP numbers. Not so good – you have very small capacity to grasp finances. Don't kid yourself – you are just making it more apparent to all.

So following your logic, considering the pound has lost roughly 40 percent of it value compared to the dollar, it is now well below the US in per capita GDP. Get a grip and look at the numbers logically.

Ofcourse the UK's GDP isn't down 40%, but using your flawed logic, that is what their exchange rate GDP #s would reflect.

Any more foolish logic youi want to share. Still get a kick out of your claim that 11 EU nations surpass the US in per capita GDP(PPP data).

This site sure brings out the nut cases with tiny noggins.

Ah good morning SA, glad to see you are still with this.

I can see that reading comprehension is probably not your strong suit so I will try to recap what I have stated earlier:

I clearly stated that my earlier claims regarding GDP (PPP) were in error, I also gave the reasons why I thought that you would agree that PPP is worthless in measuring relative Wealth of Nations.

GDP per capita (PPP) measures relative to the purchasing power of an imaginary 'average individual' buying goods within their national borders.

I laid out some of the issues cause PPP to be relatively lower for more economically homogeneous countries as I think most will agree that European countries represent relative to the US.

Ofcourse the UK's GDP isn't down 40%, but using your flawed logic, that is what their exchange rate GDP #s would reflect.

Actually by definition that is exactly what it is (using exchange rates). It is not flawed logic at all, it merely highlights the volatile nature of relative wealth.

Using your logic, people whose stocks lost 50% of their value didn't really lose 50% of their value.

Obviously the gains the dollar made increased purchasing power of the US when used to purchase good outside the national borders. Its not magic. Sleight of hand, maybe

But please, feel free to argue your case. Should you have one.

The fact that, according to the latest data available from the CIA factbook, 11 countries surpass the US in GDP per capita (nominal/official exchange rate) has so far not been sought refuted by you. If you want to argue that this doesn't reflect the situation *this instant* that is fine, and I would agree, but that is true with any statistic.

Enthusiastically awaiting your comments,

unomi

[chiang mai]

,,,for posting my views on GDP i have to search for a paper which i wrote years ago.

Naam, I only wrote one paper on that subject, when it was called GNP. In 1960. Do you think much has changed?

i can't answer that question PB. the paper i wrote was from my perspective being a physicist/engineer and not based on what they lecture MBAs-to-be. after retiring i had ample time to do my own research and to arrive at my own conclusions which differ from those of the mainstream.

but whatever, the search for my paper on a dozen harddrives has to be postponed. reason: i had to cancel a medical procedure which was scheduled for next week in BKK and prepare for open heart surgery (multiple bypass) to be carried out in Germany.

it sounds ridiculous , but my biggest headache is presently how to leave my hi-tech home (only i know what has to be done if something does not work, e.g. water supply, etc.) in the care of rather helpless servants.

All the best of luck with the op, I'm sure it will all be just fine.

[siamamerican]

Feable attempt at humor.

So how do EU countries compare TODAY using exchange rate GDP numbers. Not so good – you have very small capacity to grasp finances. Don't kid yourself – you are just making it more apparent to all.

So following your logic, considering the pound has lost roughly 40 percent of it value compared to the dollar, it is now well below the US in per capita GDP. Get a grip and look at the numbers logically.

Ofcourse the UK's GDP isn't down 40%, but using your flawed logic, that is what their exchange rate GDP #s would reflect.

Any more foolish logic youi want to share. Still get a kick out of your claim that 11 EU nations surpass the US in per capita GDP(PPP data).

This site sure brings out the nut cases with tiny noggins.

Ah good morning SA, glad to see you are still with this.

I can see that reading comprehension is probably not your strong suit so I will try to recap what I have stated earlier:

I clearly stated that my earlier claims regarding GDP (PPP) were in error, I also gave the reasons why I thought that you would agree that PPP is worthless in measuring relative Wealth of Nations.

GDP per capita (PPP) measures relative to the purchasing power of an imaginary 'average individual' buying goods within their national borders.

I laid out some of the issues cause PPP to be relatively lower for more economically homogeneous countries as I think most will agree that European countries represent relative to the US.

Ofcourse the UK's GDP isn't down 40%, but using your flawed logic, that is what their exchange rate GDP #s would reflect.

Actually by definition that is exactly what it is (using exchange rates). It is not flawed logic at all, it merely highlights the volatile nature of relative wealth.

Using your logic, people whose stocks lost 50% of their value didn't really lose 50% of their value.

Obviously the gains the dollar made increased purchasing power of the US when used to purchase good outside the national borders. Its not magic. Sleight of hand, maybe

But please, feel free to argue your case. Should you have one.

The fact that, according to the latest data available from the CIA factbook, 11 countries surpass the US in GDP per capita (nominal/official exchange rate) has so far not been sought refuted by you. If you want to argue that this doesn't reflect the situation *this instant* that is fine, and I would agree, but that is true with any statistic.

Enthusiastically awaiting your comments,

unomi

I'm going to waste little time with logic. I'll just go with your flawed logic that exchange rate GDP is a better measurement of GDP. So after the recent plummeting value of the Euro compared to the dollar, it is very likely that the US has surpassed all other countries in the EU with the exception of Luxembourg.

Sure the EU is still producing products that have the same value within the EU zone, but I guess that doesn't matter.

Can't you grasp the fact that using exchange rate GDP would cause GDP to fluctuate on a daily basis. One day the US could be ranked 10 and the next month it could be ranked 2. I forgot, I should ignore logic like many of the posters on TV.

We are both stubborn. The difference is that you live in a make believe world where the US is far behind the the EU economically.

[siamamerican]

Unomi,

I just thought of an easy exercise that you can handle. You have already shown that you can divide.

Use PPP or an exchange rate( your preference) GDP number and divide by the respective US and EU population. I'll give you a hint the US GDP per capita is at least 20% higher than the EU, depending on what GDP calc you use.

If you really want to outdo yourself, look at the same numbers going back to the early 70s and you will see that the gap is growing. The rest of the world is collectively catching up to the US, but the EU is not the reason.

It's funny how numbers get in the way of your dream.

[unomi]

Unomi,

I just thought of an easy exercise that you can handle. You have already shown that you can divide.

Use PPP or an exchange rate( your preference) GDP number and divide by the respective US and EU population. I'll give you a hint the US GDP per capita is at least 20% higher than the EU, depending on what GDP calc you use.

If you really want to outdo yourself, look at the same numbers going back to the early 70s and you will see that the gap is growing. The rest of the world is collectively catching up to the US, but the EU is not the reason.

It's funny how numbers get in the way of your dream.

Weird, see thats what I already did in previous posts, remember the references to the phallus of Europe and Nokias rise from a$wipe to kicka$ ?

I assume what you want to say is :

Look up the GPD as rendered in their Native currency and use todays exchange rate to come up with a number. That can actually be pretty hard to come by information, could be easier to use the old data, look up the exchange rate at that time and modify to accomodate todays exchange rate.

That is simply not worth my time, the idea to use GDP (and PPP at that) as a meaningful indicator of the relative wealth of nations was YOUR idea, not mine. I am perfectly aware of how inadequate GDP is, and increasingly how you are.

I can tell you that the exchange rate for the Danish Crown is currently just below 6 (5.95)dkk to the $

and that it looks as though it was 5.48 to the $ which resolves to the relative DK GDP being around 92.1% of its previous value. Looking at my previous post (someone has to) I see that at that time it was 56,727 $ compared to the US' 45,676. Adjusting for the changes in exchange rates turns it into 52,245 compared to 45,676 for the US.

Now was there anything else you wanted?

And regarding the assumed GDP growth of the US vs the rest of the world, perhaps you could reread the post were I mention that economists were doubtful of that interpretation and that most likely it had to do with the fact that the US are fudging their numbers, whups, I mean using different deflation methods than they do in europe.

I have no idea how you are able to be so utterly blind to reality and devoid of selfassesment.

I must admit that I am slightly envious of the fact that you are able to sublimate your shortcomings into a protective bubble and I am at great odds with myself as to if I should allow this conversation to continue.

I enjoy the banter and the chat but seriously, show some intelligence or this becomes much too intense and reckless.

Edited October 29, 2008 by unomi

[unomi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItdlA6bQkE

Perhaps Dylan said it best.

[PeaceBlondie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItdlA6bQkE

Perhaps Dylan said it best.

Dylan often said it best, such as the vandals stole the handles, and that pillbox hat, and Jeez, I can't feel my knees.

[HS Mauberley]

GDP is an absurd measurement. I recently discovered that when US GDP is calculated, the following are included as 'real' cash in the economy:

i - The value of free banking is given a monetary value and added to GDP

ii - The fact that home owners don't have to pay rent to themselves is also (and bizarrely) given a cash value and added to GDP

iii - Improvements in goods which aren't reflected in an increased price (so getting a better PC for the same price as last year) are also given a cash value and added to GDP (interestingly, whilst this calculation is used to inflate GDP, the same process is used to deflate the figures for inflation).

There is a very interesting website called Shadowstats which shows how the figures are manipulated (for the US) and how the numbers for inflation and GDP are significantly worse than reported.

On the subject of the dollar, it's strength is probably temporary. As someone said earlier, debts are being called in and that's increasing demand for the dollar. When this process is over, the fact that the US is insolvent will in all likelihood have a catastrophic effect on its currency.

[Shotime]

Sorry to hear you have to go thru that. They're very good at that, the Germans. Hope to hear from you soon.

Great video, and PB beat me to it. Yet the war still wages. Disease of conceit, indeed

I have to stop reading these economic type threads. Difficult to make a joke. Too depressing. I'll stick with the ridiculous Farang gets fuc_ked by Thai girl ones.

[unomi]

Nice site H.S. Mauberley, cheers!

Beside this thoroughfare

The sale of half-hose has

Long since superseded the cultivation

Of Pierian roses

And thanks for the segue.