Thai Universities

[sriracha john]

This was the first electronic computer.  Source Here

Hope this helps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL..... "Triumph of the Nerds".... now THERE'S an authoritative-sounding website.

[srisatch]

"There are no real measures for comparing universities, whatever THES or others may assert. Money plays a big part nowadsys re endowments etc...the theory being if you pay big salaries to attract whizzy academics that soemehow makes for a 'better' university.

Many universities are 'competing' on the basis of Research criteria not on undergraduate teaching and the 'experience' of university.

Just as the OECD and others try to 'rank' countries by GDP etc most of this bears no relation to what it means in terms of experience, learning, knowledge and skills that help you develop a career you wanted."

That is absolutely untrue.  Of course there are measures for comparing universities, otherwise how would you know that Chula and Thammasat are the obvious choices in Thailand, and Ramkhamhaeng is a disgrace? 

Not all comparisons are as stark, but there are different categories of measurement and scores for each.  Some universities rank higher in certain categories even though they may not get the highest overall ranking.  The top universities get consistently high rankings in individual and overall scores.  Yes, money is a factor, but obviously not the only important one.  The University of California Berkley is a public university and 2nd on the list, and there are 2 other American public universities in the top 20.  This also reflects the scores in other international surveys, although THES is considered the international "authority".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are these measures? What do they measure? Who devised them? What are they 'for'? Public and private Unis both have money

When I say Chula/Thamasat and Rangsit are the 'obvious' choices that is because apart from Chiang Mai or Silpa if you want to study art there hardly are any others visible. And I was not referring to any measures. Just opinion. If I had wanted to justify the observation by measures, not that I think that necessary, ..I don't have them for Thailand. Do you? And do you think they are 'accurate' whatever that might mean?

And.. Are you disagreeing that Ram is a disgrace..if not by what measures are you assessing its quality? I'll tell you mine!

If I wanted to make a jibe I would say you were peddling the old American fiction than any and every complex thing can be reduced to numbers and measured...!!

All the guy asked was where to send his step daughter to Uni in Thailand...Got any better ideas?

Edited February 18, 2005 by srisatch

[Neeranam]

The test of one's education must surely be in its application, and it seems like Kat has been applying his/her education to this web forum in a flatteringly disporportionate manner compared to her/his doubtlessly high profile day job. 

Anyway, i thought i'd post the THES world universities ranking since it was much discussed here and since i have it handy. This is just the top 100. Interesting to note that there isn't a single Thai university in the top 200 even. I have hired both Thai and US grads and i have to say that my experience with them suggests that Thai university education is inadequate for producing the sort of dynamic, independent, intellectually curious, and confident people i need on my team. I try hard to create a level paying field, but the difference in standards and quality is too often obvious.

Only one Scottish university at no 70, this must be wrong.

Probably only there as the future king of England goes, in my opinion there are better, Edinburgh, for example. Scottish education rank up there as the best in the world, Queen Liz sent her 3 sons there.

On the topic of inventions, tv, telephone, penicillin, cloning, etc, oh and properwhisky, can't forget that

[johnnyk]

Witness the internet, computers, aerospace, medical advances, franchising, etc. etc. are mostly American developed

Let me see, the Internet.....British, Computers........British........Medical advances....... well if we agree that penicillin is the most important medical advance of the last century.....erm.......British also.

That leaves the US with aerospace and fast food franchises! Well done!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Australian medical researcher Lord Florey might be a bit pissed about that assertion about penicillin Professor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought Sir Sandford Fleming was credited with inventing penicillin.

[chaladmak]

my wife graduated from Ramkanhaeng - says it is good

[johnnyk]

With reference to Harvard, there's a very interesting article by a Harvard grad in the current issue of The Atlantic magazine about the quality of undergrad education at Harvard. Lots of PC crap and very shallow.

FWIW, a friend did an exchange year from a British uni to an American one and said it was quite easy in terms of the intellectual wattage required.

The following year a group of American students did the exchange program at his uni in Britain and were totally lost as they did not have any thinking skills and their background knowledge was very weak.

[Neeranam]

I thought Sir Sandford Fleming was credited with inventing penicillin.

Who?

It was Alexander Fleming.

[Neeranam]

I used to stay next to Napier University in Edinburgh, a very good Uni. John Napier invented the decimal point and logarithms. We wouldn't have computers if it weren't for Scottish inventors.

Oh, also the "vacuum cleaner", "anaesthetic", "kalaidescope(ok that is useless)"

Amazing for a country 1/10th the size of Thailand and 1/50th the size of the USA.

Shouldn't there be more Scottish Unis in the top 100??????

What has Thailand ever invented of any use?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I thought Sir Sandford Fleming was credited with inventing penicillin.

Who?

It was Alexander Fleming.

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It certainly was

[johnnyk]

Yeah, one of them there Fleming guys...

Apart from inventions (Watt, Kelvin etc) the scots also contributed a great deal of THINKING and how to do same.

For a tiny nation their contribution to western science/culture/thought is immense.

A great deal of it done before 1776.

[sriracha john]

John Napier invented the decimal point

HOORAH!!!.... he invented a dot!... LOL....

[sriracha john]

What has Thailand ever invented of any use?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recall reading that archeologists have determined that the bamboo bong was apparently first invented in Thailand... (along the lines of your Scotch whiskey)..

[toastwars]

What has Thailand ever invented of any use?

I recall reading that archeologists have determined that the bamboo bong was apparently first invented in Thailand... (along the lines of your Scotch whiskey)..

Thailand will never produce a good inventor because no one will talk about what isn't good about a design, face again

anyway back on topic

Thai universities

I think they are very good, lots of tight black skirts and white blouses, excelent idea

[srisatch]

my wife graduated from Ramkanhaeng - says it is good 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Graduated, studying what?

Without wishing to be rude...oops..'how would she know'?...Don't know about your life...but...Have you seen the Course Books/Multiple Choice Books that pass for 'Courses' at Ram...The last time I looked...but that is 6 years or so ago Computing 101 was a 1950s nonsense about What is a processor? and English 101 was so full of mistakes that by the time we had edited it it was unreadable...!!

[Neeranam]

I recall reading that archeologists have determined that the bamboo bong was apparently first invented in Thailand... (along the lines of your Scotch whiskey)..

Really?

I must admit that has been a useful invention in my past.

[kat]

I'm sorry for the unfortunate comment that set off the whole "who is better" argument, because I find such speels ridiculous and fundamentally flawed at best. Example (in a whining voice) "Americans invented the internet ....... 'yeah, but a Brit developed the world wide web'" etc. etc. etc.

The fact is that the internet would still be a cloistered operation of American defence without the world wide web, and who knows what use the web would have been without the internet. Inventions and science tend to gain a cumulative effect from the other advances before them. Do you really want to get into a match about who invented what? It won't be easy on all accounts, including the quite frequent and knee-jerk response of slagging off America, or Europe and Britan for that matter.

By the way, you mentioned Universities. It is without a doubt by many accounts, that the top universities in the world are American. If you have the grades, talent, and cash, or a scholarship, you can get into one. And if you think I am making this up, there was recently a world-wide survey of top academics and Universities around the world of more than 1800 scholars. I think the top 5 universities were American, with something like 7 on the list in total. Harvard, Stanford, Univ of Berkley, MIT, Yale (American), and Oxford, Cambridge, a technical school in Switzerland, and some others. Not exactly in this order. I can google up the list again if you want, and it was also mentioned in the local English papers a couple of months ago.

However, there is no doubt that our public school system largely sucks, and that Britian and Western Europe do a better job in general of public education. So, my point is, before you sling the mud, know the facts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"There are no real measures for comparing universities, whatever THES or others may assert. Money plays a big part nowadsys re endowments etc...the theory being if you pay big salaries to attract whizzy academics that soemehow makes for a 'better' university.

Many universities are 'competing' on the basis of Research criteria not on undergraduate teaching and the 'experience' of university.

Just as the OECD and others try to 'rank' countries by GDP etc most of this bears no relation to what it means in terms of experience, learning, knowledge and skills that help you develop a career you wanted."

That is absolutely untrue. Of course there are measures for comparing universities, otherwise how would you know that Chula and Thammasat are the obvious choices in Thailand, and Ramkhamhaeng is a disgrace?

Not all comparisons are as stark, but there are different categories of measurement and scores for each. Some universities rank higher in certain categories even though they may not get the highest overall ranking. The top universities get consistently high rankings in individual and overall scores. Yes, money is a factor, but obviously not the only important one. The University of California Berkley is a public university and 2nd on the list, and there are 2 other American public universities in the top 20. This also reflects the scores in other international surveys, although THES is considered the international "authority".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are these measures? What do they measure? Who devised them? What are they 'for'? Public and private Unis both have money

When I say Chula/Thamasat and Rangsit are the 'obvious' choices that is because apart from Chiang Mai or Silpa if you want to study art there hardly are any others visible. And I was not referring to any measures. Just opinion. If I had wanted to justify the observation by measures, not that I think that necessary, ..I don't have them for Thailand. Do you? And do you think they are 'accurate' whatever that might mean?

And.. Are you disagreeing that Ram is a disgrace..if not by what measures are you assessing its quality? I'll tell you mine!

If I wanted to make a jibe I would say you were peddling the old American fiction than any and every complex thing can be reduced to numbers and measured...!!

All the guy asked was where to send his step daughter to Uni in Thailand...Got any better ideas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said earlier, the measures in most comparative surveys look at different combinations of cited research, faculty, graduate scores, overall reputation and individual departments, faculty/student ratios, amongst other things. Different surveys emphasize different points, but most reproduce a list fairly close to the THES.

In terms of THES, it is considered the authority simply because it also tallied the scores of the experts - between 1300 to 1800 university professors worldwide. So yes, your remark about my being American was a cheap jibe, albeit a predicatable one.

And no, I wasn't contesting the argument that Ramkham is a disgrace. I was merely pointing out the contradictions in your own argument.

As for my suggestions on Thai Unis, I would say Mahidol or Chula. But if I had the choice, I would send my offspring to a Western country. And to be honest, I would steer clear of the Thai educational system long before university. One of my good friends and uni classmates (in the states), is Thai and attended private Christian schools in Thailand for his primary school education. His parents then sent him to Japan for high school, so that he could qualify for the University of Tokyo. He then attended Cambridge University in the UK for a master's, and then uni in the states for another master's and ph.d.

Only one Scottish university at no 70, this must be wrong.

Probably only there as the future king of England goes, in my opinion there are better, Edinburgh, for example. Scottish education rank up there as the best in the world, Queen Liz sent her 3 sons there.

On the topic of inventions, tv, telephone, penicillin, cloning, etc, oh and properwhisky, can't forget that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The funny thing is that many of these inventions that are credited to one's particular country or nationality actually had many cumulative inventors:

the television

the computer

the lightbulb - the first real lightbulb was actually invented by a German.

the telephone - officially Alexander Graham Bell, but controversial from day one even in America, and in 2002 was officially changed to Italian immigrant Meccuri.

the airplane - cumulative, but there is no doubt that the first engine-fueled plane was American, as well as long-distance flight.

With reference to Harvard, there's a very interesting article by a Harvard grad in the current issue of The Atlantic magazine about the quality of undergrad education at Harvard. Lots of PC crap and very shallow.

FWIW, a friend did an exchange year from a British uni to an American one and said it was quite easy in terms of the intellectual wattage required.

The following year a group of American students did the exchange program at his uni in Britain and were totally lost as they did not have any thinking skills and their background knowledge was very weak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yawn. The Atlantic is a conservative magazine, and will pretty much bad-mouth just about any university as pc crap. But I will agree that some schools of Harvard are very shallow, especially the JFK School of Government. There is an adage that seems to be very true: "the hardest thuing about Harvard is getting in". But Harvard is only one school, and is certainly not representative of all American university cultures, and definitely not mine.

Therefore your friend's comment is typical of all the usual slurs and English stereotypes of America. What else is new? If you wanted facts, I could give you an exact comparison between two top 3 American universities and Cambridge, but you don't want facts; you just want to continue to bash because that's the only way to deal with your English inferiority/superiority complex. And by the way, the British students at my school were getting their asses kicked, like everyone else. They didn't pull that English superiority bullshit because they actually were intelligent. Maybe once they got home it was a different story, lol.

But hey, don't take my word for it. The global survey of more than 1300 academics is done.

I used to stay next to Napier University in Edinburgh, a very good Uni. John Napier invented the decimal point and logarithms. We wouldn't have computers if it weren't for Scottish inventors.

Oh, also the "vacuum cleaner", "anaesthetic", "kalaidescope(ok that is useless)"

Amazing for a country 1/10th the size of Thailand and 1/50th the size of the USA.

Shouldn't there be more Scottish Unis in the top 100??????

What has Thailand ever invented of any use?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, Alexander Grahmam Bell was a Scottish immigrant to America. But you should hear what the Italians say about him now that Italian immigrant Meccuri is recognized as the telephone's inventor.

Edited February 19, 2005 by kat

[cdnvic]

Okay now, take a breath and calm down now...don't make me get the dogs out.

Go read the joke section and come back in a better mood.

cv

[johnnyk]

Okay now, take a breath and calm down now...don't make me get the dogs out. 

Go read the joke section and come back in a better mood. 

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right. Please delete my post if possible, it was out of line.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Okay now, take a breath and calm down now...don't make me get the dogs out. 

Go read the joke section and come back in a better mood. 

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right. Please delete my post if possible, it was out of line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My pleasure Johnny.

[srisatch]

I am glad Kat has, at least, singled out Mahidol and Chula. In answer to the Q. that is OK by me.

However he/she provides, still, no account , description, list, evidence of measures/scales in use..I ask again: What are they??

Who thinks academics are the experts on Undergraduate University Education? Sure they can, probably, assess a research paper in their field, unless they are feeling overlooked or just bitchy. It is delightfully known as 'peer review', which is a bit like asking the girls in a bar who is a good f+++.

I should say, which will no doubt fuel Kat's ire!, and encourage disparagement, I have degrees from 2 of the Universities in the so-called top 20 and I have worked in quite a few others!!

This thing about inventions.... Inventions and patents have little or nothing to do with the quality of Universities. Different thread!

Why is this all so serious!!?

[kat]

Srisatch:

Why would your degrees fuel my ire? All the better for you, I say. I'm done arguing over the obvious. If my explanation doesn't satisfy you, then go dredge up your own research on numerous lists - you've got a good education. I'm done.

[jackr]

I am glad Kat has, at least, singled out Mahidol and Chula. In answer to the Q. that is OK by me.

However he/she provides, still, no account , description, list, evidence of measures/scales in use..I ask again: What are they??

Who thinks academics are the experts on Undergraduate University Education? Sure they can, probably, assess a research paper in their field, unless they are feeling overlooked or just bitchy. It is delightfully known as 'peer review', which is a bit like asking the girls in a bar who is a good f+++.

I should say, which will no doubt fuel Kat's ire!, and encourage disparagement, I have degrees from 2 of the Universities  in the  so-called top 20 and I have worked in quite a few others!!

This thing about inventions.... Inventions and patents have little or nothing to do with the quality of Universities. Different thread!

Why is this all so serious!!?

If you go back to the first page, srisatch, you'll see why the thread developed a split personality sparked-off from the ramblings of one, thaigrr. Anyway, as Kat says, it's all done...the topic has long been exhausted.

[OxfordWill]

The THES method for scoring those unis is notoriously inadequate.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Srisatch:

Why would your degrees fuel my ire?  All the better for you, I say.  I'm done arguing over the obvious.  If my explanation doesn't satisfy you, then go dredge up your own research on numerous lists - you've got a good education.  I'm done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Lord is merciful.

[Abandon]

I got my degree in a Thai university, and I am long, skinny, pasty pale, bad teeth and British, and spoke hardly a word of Thai at the start (and at the end it ain't much better) No, I'm not telling you which one, 'cos it isn't the best by any stretch.

Got to list Thai universities tops in

girls

girls uniforms

easy to pass (got to try hard to fail)

nice people

being close to family (if you are thai)

Cheap cheap cheap

weather

kindly teachers

morality around drugs and sex (they have them, but not like uk or preumably, US)

safety

And as for being a foreigner - everyone's interest is sparked when I say I did my degree in Thailand with crap language skills. No one ever asked my brother - Hey! tell me all about your degree in Hull university! ha ha

And I was allowed to write assignments in English, and write exams in English, even though the courses were purely in Thai.

As for getting work - it depends on you more than the university IMO. I never had a job problem. A friend of mine from Cambodia, went to take English Majour. He got a grade average of 3.8 despite having poor written Thai at the start. He binned the English majour as by year 3 his english was better than every single one of the teachers, all self learned from BBC and AOL. He took economics and I've no doubt his economics is better than the teachers too now. At the same time he took Abhidhamma and passed level 9 (as he was a temple boy). He'll go farther than I ever will.

It depends on the student mostly, not so much the university. Though both obviously play a part.

My view - Thai uni's are great.

[srisatch]

I got my degree in a Thai university, and I am long, skinny, pasty pale, bad teeth and British, and spoke hardly a word of Thai at the start (and at the end it ain't much better) No, I'm not telling you which one, 'cos it isn't the best by any stretch.

Got to list Thai universities tops in

girls

girls uniforms

easy to pass (got to try hard to fail)

nice people

being close to family (if you are thai)

Cheap cheap cheap

weather

kindly teachers

morality around drugs and sex (they have them, but not like uk or preumably, US)

safety

And as for being a foreigner - everyone's interest is sparked when I say I did my degree in Thailand with crap language skills. No one ever asked my brother - Hey! tell me all about your degree in Hull university! ha ha

And I was allowed to write assignments in English, and write exams in English, even though the courses were purely in Thai.

As for getting work - it depends on you more than the university IMO. I never had a job problem. A friend of mine from Cambodia, went to take English Majour. He got a grade average of 3.8 despite having poor written Thai at the start. He binned the English majour as by year 3 his english was better than every single one of the teachers, all self learned from BBC and AOL. He took economics and I've no doubt his economics is better than the teachers too now. At the same time he took Abhidhamma and passed level 9 (as he was a temple boy). He'll go farther than I ever will.

It depends on the student mostly, not so much the university. Though both obviously play a part.

My view - Thai uni's are great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I'm gonna leave it, without dredging (ain't that guy/gal got a way with grouch?!) or the Lord's mercy...oh no! please no!

[kat]

You think I have a way with grouch? I guess you would say that about someone who can substantiate arguments with more than casual opinion.

But then again, this forum is rife with hypocrites. Somehow, I don't think we would be having this discussion if British unis were at the top of the lists. Whatever. I guess you believe whatever it is you need to believe, even if it is factually incorrect.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I got my degree in a Thai university, and I am long, skinny, pasty pale, bad teeth and British, and spoke hardly a word of Thai at the start (and at the end it ain't much better) No, I'm not telling you which one, 'cos it isn't the best by any stretch.

Got to list Thai universities tops in

girls

girls uniforms

easy to pass (got to try hard to fail)

nice people

being close to family (if you are thai)

Cheap cheap cheap

weather

kindly teachers

morality around drugs and sex (they have them, but not like uk or preumably, US)

safety

And as for being a foreigner - everyone's interest is sparked when I say I did my degree in Thailand with crap language skills. No one ever asked my brother - Hey! tell me all about your degree in Hull university! ha ha

And I was allowed to write assignments in English, and write exams in English, even though the courses were purely in Thai.

As for getting work - it depends on you more than the university IMO. I never had a job problem. A friend of mine from Cambodia, went to take English Majour. He got a grade average of 3.8 despite having poor written Thai at the start. He binned the English majour as by year 3 his english was better than every single one of the teachers, all self learned from BBC and AOL. He took economics and I've no doubt his economics is better than the teachers too now. At the same time he took Abhidhamma and passed level 9 (as he was a temple boy). He'll go farther than I ever will.

It depends on the student mostly, not so much the university. Though both obviously play a part.

My view - Thai uni's are great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pervin' HD

[Abandon]

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You think I have a way with grouch?  I guess you would say that about someone who can substantiate arguments with more than casual opinion.

But then again, this forum is rife with hypocrites.  Somehow, I don't think we would be having this discussion if British unis were at the top of the lists.  Whatever.  I guess you believe whatever it is you need to believe, even if it is factually incorrect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Talking of thorns ....