I do like irony.

Nah, we won't be baited, even by the Master Baiters.

I'd agree with SBK- if it were up to me, we'd simply put a temporary moratorium on the whole topic, but that would be like saying Thai politics is completely off-limits- which would kinda miss the point.

Unfortunately- elements of both "sides," such as it were, would rather reserve the right to be nasty to each other rather than take the high ground, behave properly, and use the 'report function.' If even one side did that, the other would be warned and banned into compliance. As things stand, it's like being referee at a s**t-slinging match- it stinks, both sides are dirty, and you don't want to be there. I'm glad my primary responsibility isn't the news section; I'd hate to be responsible for actually reading all of that garbage every day.

Having read through more than a few of these PAD threads I have noticed something I find very disturbing. Not just the vehemence but the virulently aggressive attitude many members have towards not only the PAD or the PPP but also to any who hold viewpoints opposing their own. Its as if there is a need to demonise people with whom they don't agree.

I don't understand this myself. I am firm believer that everyone has the right to their opinion, even if I think it misguided or foolish, it is still their right. It certainly does not mean I need to hate the person or consider them evil.

I can't decide if this is a sign of political immaturity, emotional immaturity, narrow mindedness or just plain bigotry. But, frankly, I find it deeply disturbing and can't help but wonder about the emotional stability of some people who seem so obsessed with hating those that don't agree with them.

Sound and solid, sbk. I tend to be more amused towards the frightening angst that will be displayed regarding our domestic political circus. Granted, as many of us that have resided here for a time, might take the ebbs and flows of the reality very personal and dead-to-right serious. I might believe that these same folk that retain strong opinions and views regarding Thai issues would not blink concerning similarities in their 'home' countries......why would this be?

I think that in general, the Thaksin haters are much more closed minded than the posters who are more sympathetic to the red point of view (no farang on either side seems to LOVE Thaksin). They act like Thaksin is a criminal on par with Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot and don't give him credit for anything that he did right.

I just don't see it.

Not all Reds sign on to the Thaksin love fest, just as their yellow counterparts don't buy the dogma passed on for them.

Being currently unemployed I have a bit too much time on my hands and as a result I have dipped into those crazy threads again.

I just don't get how some can be so absolutely blinded to reason. I admit that I am not completely un-biased and that I do lean towards one side in particular, however I can still see that both sides can be in the wrong (and sometimes right) whilst others deny even the slightest possibility that their champion is anything but angelic, yet the opposition is clearly straight from hel_l despite whatever evidence may be put before them.

I need to get out more, must find work.

Freud suggested that all of us are born with at least a little narcissism.

Can the average person balance that inherant ego-love with reality when it comes to opinions formed?

"My opinion is 1. Mine, 2. My right, and 3. Right.....End of discussion." (Fingers in ears, close eyes.)

Being an average man, I know I struggle to maintain the balance at times. I like to think that at other times, I realise that I would be abusing, not loving, myself if I ignored the truth even though the truth proves me wrong, thus I concede and accept a new opinion.

As far as the PAD vs. PPP topics I am undecided. Both sides make good points and have ground to stand on I think. Tough choice right now whcih should be backed, which means to me that when two sides both have points on their side it's time to compromise.

I hardly ever go out into the gerneral populaiton of Thaivisa. It's just not right out there.

Neither one is willing to budge an inch and if it were up to me I would delete all of the posts from both sides. But then, there would be nothing left in News.

Have you given that thought any further consideration SBK? Perhaps George could consider just dropping a nuke on the news section, it would be a mercy killing.

I know that it is sad and a bit pathetic to allow anonymous strangers on an internet forum get under your skin, but.......

Perhaps try posting in the hot bum thread, you get a better quality of ass there

i avoid the news threads because as others have said before it is too much work to find any news, as for the heated post by tv members imho it is a bit of venting from the frustration that when it comes to politcal change in lol we are insignificant, and have no say in anything that happens in thai politics. my wife has benefited from some of mr. t policies such as ira tax schemes, and i can see where his 30 baht health care plan was a good idea, and imo the yellow were correct in calling bs on the tax free sale and the changing of the laws to facilitate it but at the end of the day, tit very little will change when it comes to politics so why get emotional? we do have an advantage that the thais do not; we can leave at will, knowing this always takes the edge off being treated as a second class human in lol. but hey thats just my opinion and welll we all know what opinions are akin to.

And so now, against my better judgement, I find myself getting drawn in.

It reminds of something that jingthing said on a thread about the popularity of subjects on Pattaya, it was something along the lines of "It's like a train wreck, people can't help but look"

Except in cases where certain things are downright evil (murder, rape, child molesting, etc), I'm pretty open to opposing points if view. I see just about everything in shades of grey... from almost black to almost white. I've been around so many different people in so many different places that I start to see both sides to every issue. Many people are very well read and can separate the BS from the truth. Politically, there is no one correct party. The yellows and the reds both have justified points of view. You just can't take the extremes from either side as being the norm.

Things actually have to get done to run a country, a province or a city. They can only get done by taxing people with wealth who then hire people willing to work. However, there are a few absolutes... such as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Leave anyone in power too long and there will be problems... for no other reason than the human nature of being greedy.

I frankly enjoy hot, spirited discussions from opposing points of view, and I always learn something. However, I NEVER, EVER reply with nasty comments when people attack my beliefs personally. I just let them make fools out of themselves. I've been around long enough not to let anyone's comments (no matter how nasty) bother me. About as nasty as I'll get is a bit of low key teasing about certain subjects that are over done all the time. Even then I'll not make it personal.

And, occasionally, I'll actually "troll" a little just to make people think a bit, and see that there are other valid viewpoints... on just about any topic.

there are a few absolutes... such as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The correct quote is:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

a small change but quite significant.

there are a few absolutes... such as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The correct quote is:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

a small change but quite significant.

Thank you for your correction.

See, I AM open minded.

there are a few absolutes... such as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The correct quote is:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

a small change but quite significant.

Here are some more famous sayings of Lord Acton.....

“The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.”

“And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

"There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men."

"Socialism means slavery."

there are a few absolutes... such as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The correct quote is:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

a small change but quite significant.

Here are some more famous sayings of Lord Acton.....

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections."

"And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

"There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men."

"Socialism means slavery."

Sophistry. If he hadn't qualified his "The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority..." statement, he would have said one thing I agree with.

All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

As far as I am aware, this is a corruption of what Acton actually said, and the change is quite significant.

All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

As far as I am aware, this is a corruption of what Acton actually said, and the change is quite significant.

I can't comment on what is the actual quote, but I agree that there is a very significant difference.

I lean towards Mossfin's version. I think that both the first part of the statement and the second part, can't possibly be an absolute. If it was an absolute, then all Gods are corrupt.

All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

As far as I am aware, this is a corruption of what Acton actually said, and the change is quite significant.

I stand by the quotes I posted as being accurate.

John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton has a wiki page.

Mossfinn, it was your post that made me do a little research on this.

I have heard many people use this quote and had never sourced it.

For words that were spoken so long ago they seem quite timely.

Here's the link to his page Lord Acton= Wikipedia

Sophistry. If he hadn't qualified his "The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority..." statement, he would have said one thing I agree with.

That’s funny.

With the struggles going on in the US and Thailand that was the one quote I most agreed with.

All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

As far as I am aware, this is a corruption of what Acton actually said, and the change is quite significant.

I stand by the quotes I posted as being accurate.

John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton has a wiki page.

Mossfinn, it was your post that made me do a little research on this.

I have heard many people use this quote and had never sourced it.

For words that were spoken so long ago they seem quite timely.

Here's the link to his page Lord Acton= Wikipedia

I am a supporter of Wiki, as long as it is used with a little caution, it is a site that anybody can edit, however they have a legion of people constantly monitoring its day to day activity.

A further however, I did scan read the site you linked and twice I noticed it stated the use of the term 'tends', in Acton's quote, which is the point I am making, which is different to the quote that you have stated.

All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

As far as I am aware, this is a corruption of what Acton actually said, and the change is quite significant.

I stand by the quotes I posted as being accurate.

John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton has a wiki page.

Mossfinn, it was your post that made me do a little research on this.

I have heard many people use this quote and had never sourced it.

For words that were spoken so long ago they seem quite timely.

Here's the link to his page Lord Acton= Wikipedia

I am a supporter of Wiki, as long as it is used with a little caution, it is a site that anybody can edit, however they have a legion of people constantly monitoring its day to day activity.

A further however, I did scan read the site you linked and twice I noticed it stated the use of the term 'tends', in Acton's quote, which is the point I am making, which is different to the quote that you have stated.

Here is the actual wiki page and you will find the quote you sited at the top.

The quotes I used are in the rest of the list.

If you have another source that disputes these please post it.

Another reason I followed up on this is it does indeed add meaning when you

look at Lord Acton's second quote relating to power.

Sophistry. If he hadn't qualified his "The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority..." statement, he would have said one thing I agree with.

That's funny.

With the struggles going on in the US and Thailand that was the one quote I most agreed with.

Yes, I agree with it....but not his qualification of it...he sort of contradicts himself.

Mind you, the rest of that statement brings to mind the chads debacle in Miami and how a minority got into power some 9 or 10 years ago.

Yes, I agree with it....but not his qualification of it...he sort of contradicts himself.

Mind you, the rest of that statement brings to mind the chads debacle in Miami and how a minority got into power some 9 or 10 years ago.

Please expand on the second and last sentence of your post.

This taken from the link provided below:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lord Acton

(1834 - 1902) British Historian

14. Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

15. The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Link is:

http://www.theotherpages.org/quote/alpha-a1.html

the rest of that statement brings to mind the chads debacle in Miami and how a minority got into power some 9 or 10 years ago.

Another conspiracy theory.

Yes, I agree with it....but not his qualification of it...he sort of contradicts himself.

Mind you, the rest of that statement brings to mind the chads debacle in Miami and how a minority got into power some 9 or 10 years ago.

Please expand on the second and last sentence of your post.

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections."

Re my second sentence, don't worry...I read the quote wrong, so I retract the second and third sentences

.

Do you really want me to expand on the chads debacle? Whatever I say will be argued, I'm certain. So lets just leave it as my opinion.

Yes, I agree with it....but not his qualification of it...he sort of contradicts himself.

Mind you, the rest of that statement brings to mind the chads debacle in Miami and how a minority got into power some 9 or 10 years ago.

Please expand on the second and last sentence of your post.

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections."

Re my second sentence, don't worry...I read the quote wrong, so I retract the second and third sentences

.

Do you really want me to expand on the chads debacle? Whatever I say will be argued, I'm certain. So lets just leave it as my opinion.

Yes, your expansion of the statement will very likely be argued, as well as arguable.