Retirement Visa

[paul700]

I have just spent most of the day at the immigration in Bangkok. I went early this morning to renew my retirement visa. Last year I went to the immigration at the airport, it took less than half an hour from start to finish.

They closed the airport office down so today I went into Bangkok to Suan Plu. I have been living here eight years now and try to avoid this place like the plague. Anyway, I went there with an open mind and hoped everything would be ok. I had my letter from the British Embassy, my letter from the bank, my passport and everything you need all photocopied and signed ready On arrival I queued up and collected the necessary form for my Retirement Visa renewal. I was then directed to room 101. I sat there for nealy five hours and then I eventually had my number called to sit with the immigration officer. To say the least, I was fed up. The lady was nice enough, but when she worked out the amount of money declared by the bank and added it to the amount of pension stated on the British Embssy letter, she said "Sorry, you are 13,000 short." OK, it supposed to be 800,000 baht in the bank or 65,000 baht a month income, or a bit of both. My bit of both came to 787,000 baht. I asked if she could let it go she said no.

What I would like to know is, how important is it to keep exactly to the rules. I understand I was short by 13,000 baht and I understand that the lady is only doing her job. It just seems so ridulous, that I went to the trouble of paying 1900 baht To The british Embassy, who then checked me out and sent me the letter for immigration letting them know I have nothing against my name, and guaranteeing my permanent address, then went to the bank and paid for a letter off them to guarantee my money in the bank, then sat for five hours to be told "Sorry, no."

I am not a criminal, just an ordinary retired guy of sixty who lives he in Bangkok. Ok, next week I will put some more money in the bank and go back again. The point I am makingis, how petty is it.

Anyone who can enlighten me of the importance of such a strictness to the rules, or anyone one who has had a similar experience, please post on here. I would really like to know whether it is me moaning about nothing or whether you think I have a valid point.

[Lite Beer]

I do sympasise with you but the requirements are in black and white. If you do not meet these requirements you do not qualify. Sorry.

[Mario2008]

Sorry to hear about your story. It stresses the point not to wait till the very last day when you want to do an extension.

As to your question, I can only say they have to draw the line somewhere and have made their line clear in their rules for an extension. They sticked to the rules and you knew you would be short when you applied for the extension. You hoped for the best, but can't be surprised they turned you down.

It is the case that many people are in the same situation as you because of the crisis. Is it fair that they don't lower the rules bacause of this? I don't know.

[paul700]

I do sympasise with you but the requirements are in black and white. If you do not meet these requirements you do not qualify. Sorry.

Ok. I understand your feelings. Thanks for the reply anyway.

[paul700]

Sorry to hear about your story. It stresses the point not to wait till the very last day when you want to do an extension...

Ok, thanks for your reply. What I failed to mention is that I did go early, so I do have another week to sort this out anyway. But thanks for your feelings on this issue.

[ubonjoe]

In the the topic about the airport office closing a member wrote that they told him he could go to to Samut Prakan.

You could go there since your last extension was from the airport office.

Samut Prakan Checkpoint

Amphoe Muang Changwat Samut Prakan

Tel. 0-2395-0029

Email: c_sprakarn(AT)immigration.go.th

[Lite Beer]

We all complain about the way the rules are enforced in different ways at different offices. The only thing that is constant are the financial requirements. They are set in stone.

[hansnl]

We all complain about the way the rules are enforced in different ways at different offices. The only thing that is constant are the financial requirements. They are set in stone.

Up till the day the stone changes, temporarily maybe, to plastic concrete.

[paul700]

We all complain about the way the rules are enforced in different ways at different offices. The only thing that is constant are the financial requirements. They are set in stone.

Thanks for your reply. The one thing that I can't understand is what is all this for, surely with the amount of money it was estimated I had 787,000 baht, I am quite able to support myself. I thought this was the whole idea of having these rules, to make sure people are not staying here with no money to survive or working illegally. Please reply if you have a view about this. Thanks

[Lite Beer]

Thanks for your reply. The one thing that I can't understand is what is all this for, surely with the amount of money it was estimated I had 787,000 baht, I am quite able to support myself. I thought this was the whole idea of having these rules, to make sure people are not staying here with no money to survive or working illegally. Please reply if you have a view about this. Thanks

Borrow 13,000 Baht There is going to be a lot of us in your shoes the way things are going.

[JohnC]

My take on this is that a line needs to be drawn so that all immigration officers follow the same set of rules so that you do not have one officer in one district using their discretion whilst in another they refuse thereby creating an uneven playing field. We know the financial requirement so its not unrealistic to expect people to turn up with the right paperwork showing the correct income. I honestly believe you set yourself up to fail and wasted a day at immigration when in fact you could have done the sums and transfered any additional money required to ensure you had a trouble free renewal of your retirement extension. Like many people here I too suffer from the poor exchange rate and as my retirement permission to stay is due at the end of April I keep a daily check on the exchange rate to ensure that when the time comes I have enough income + money in the bank to meet the current legislation.

[paul700]

Borrow 13,000 Baht There is going to be a lot of us in your shoes the way things are going.

The crazy thing is, I have a credit card with a 50,000 baht limit, because of this the bank hold back 100,000 baht and don't show it on the letter for the immigration. I don't need to borrow 13,000 baht I will cancel my credit card and have the 100,000 baht put back in my account and pay for another letter for immigration. It just all seems to be a bit stupid. Apparently the main computer at the bank automatically deducts the 100,000 when you go for a letter. But if you update your bankbook you have the 100,000 included on it. I pointed this out at the bank and all they said was .....don't worry.

[paul700]

My take on this is that a line needs to be drawn so that all immigration officers follow the same set of rules so that you do not have one officer in one district using their discretion whilst in another they refuse thereby creating an uneven playing field. We know the financial requirement so its not unrealistic to expect people to turn up with the right paperwork showing the correct income. I honestly believe you set yourself up to fail and wasted a day at immigration when in fact you could have done the sums and transfered any additional money required to ensure you had a trouble free renewal of your retirement extension. Like many people here I too suffer from the poor exchange rate and as my retirement permission to stay is due at the end of April I keep a daily check on the exchange rate to ensure that when the time comes I have enough income + money in the bank to meet the current legislation.

Thanks for your input on this situation, and I do agree that with hindsight I should have made sure there was more money there. The reason I didn't bother was because I was told if you already have one and you are just renewing, as long as you have the letter from the British Embassy you will be OK. This came from a friends friend who lives in a different province. So as you have mentioned, really a level playing field would be more helpful. The other reason I didn't "make the cut" was because of the way the bank issued the letter. (please read below)

[paul700]

Sorry to hear about your story. It stresses the point not to wait till the very last day when you want to do an extension...

Thanks for your reply and input. It's been a very frustrating day for me.

[Jingthing]

Fasten your seat belts for a rude comment.

Immigration officer are cops. At their level, they aren't the cream of the crop of Thailand's brain pool. But they certainly tell whether a number is over or under 800K baht. I would like to hear from anyone, anyone at all, who got through this system being under the required money. It is a number. Simple.

[paul700]

In the the topic about the airport office closing a member wrote that they told him he could go to to Samut Prakan.

You could go there since your last extension was from the airport office.

Samut Prakan Checkpoint

Amphoe Muang Changwat Samut Prakan

Tel. 0-2395-0029

Email: [email protected]

I did phone Samut Prakan office and was advised to go to Bangkok because I live in the Bangkok area, they said that if I went there they would only send me to Bangkok anyway. Thanks for your input anyway.

[paul700]

Fasten your seat belts for a rude comment.

Immigration officer are cops. At their level, they aren't the cream of the crop of Thailand's brain pool. But they certainly tell whether a number is over or under 800K baht. I would like to hear from anyone, anyone at all, who got through this system being under the required money. It is a number. Simple.

Thanks for your reply anyway. I like to hear what other people think about situations like this. Cheers!

[phutoie2]

I do sympasise with you but the requirements are in black and white. If you do not meet these requirements you do not qualify. Sorry.

Come on Lite Beer lets cut this chap a bit of slack, those who are TV members or just read it for info are aware of the retirement financial requirements and know it is 800k in the Thai bank account or income of 65k per month, and there are stacks of topics on this. Nevertheless there are many who either do not keep up with Thai immigration's rule changes and are surprised on their annual visits for renewal.

A 68 year old neighbour of mine is still confused by 90 day reporting and the extension process despite living here for several years. Another neighbour has just returned from Suan Plu for 9th year marriage extension and informed that all grandfather rights revoked, its now 40k income per month or 400k in the bank, which he has had for many years, must be his account only and next year advised that he must go to Tak immigration, a distant 460km from our town despite we are only 240km from Suan Plu. The main reason being that Suan Plu is far too over worked and the up country immigration offices have little to do!

I always remember doing my retirement renewal and armed with letter from the consulate the young in-experienced immigration officer assuming my province post code - 67180 was the amount my monthly income was-

[WilliamIV]

Several points arise from your post

1) What exchange rate did the Officer use?

(In the past - some years ago they had their own Poor Immigration rate)

2) You say the Bank Computer deducts the 100,000 when printing the Bank Letter

Please clarify> The Balance in your Passbook and in the Letter differed by 100,000?

This is quite contrary to the Requirements

3) It does not matter if you apply near the renewal date.

If you do not qualify for a year extension - they would normally give you

a week or a month extension to give you the chance to put matters in order.

Yes I would say that - in your words >"I would really like to know whether it is me moaning about nothing "

unless the Officer did use a particularly poor exchange rate - although you have not claimed this to be

the reason for your apparent mis-calculation

Bill

Edited February 6, 2009 by WilliamIV

[paul700]

Several points arise from your post...

Thanks for replying Bill. Ok, first of all I went to the bank to get a letter for immigration. While I was there I updated my bank book ready to go to immigration. After about twenty minutes wait, the bank gave me a standard form letter for immigration quoting the money in my account. The amount of money showing on the bank letter was 100,000 baht less than what was on my updated bankbook. When I questioned the amount, they said the computer always does that. It automatically deducts the 100,000 baht guarantee that I have to give the bank, because I have a credit card with a 50,ooo credit limit. So, basically the bank is telling immigration in the letter that I have 100,000 baht less than I really have. I hope you understand the situation. When I questioned it before I made my way to immigration they told me not to worry. I didn't worry , but after five hours wait at immigration I was told I am 13,000 baht short of the 800.000 baht required to renew my visa. I am going to the bank neat week to cancel the credit card so that the 100.000 shows and my bank account and I will pay for another letter off them stating the true amount. I hope that explains the situation. I feel it is stupid and petty the way these things are carried out at immigration. By the way, it was that important that you have the right money in bank that the immigration officer asked my wife what the rate of the baht was agianst the British Pound. How professional was that?

[paul700]

...A 68 year old neighbour of mine is still confused by 90 day reporting and the extension process despite living here for several years...

Cheers, thanks for your support. I was beginning to think that it was just me "moaning about nothing." My feelings yesterday were one of "These people don't want you here", rightly or wrongly. I will be interested to hear your comments.

[ignis]

Ok, thanks for your reply. What I failed to mention is that I did go early, so I do have another week to sort this out anyway. But thanks for your feelings on this issue.

I don't call 1 week early, maybe it is just me but I call 1 week the last minute.... I went to 'Suan Plu' on Thursday 7 weeks before, my extension runs out on the 25th March, normally I go the 1st week of March, It is fine to go 2 months before the old one runs out... So I am now good till 25 March 2010.. This is my 6th yearly extension and from what I have heard/read the best days to go to Suan Plu is Tuesday or Thursday..

I took just over 2 hours to drive there, stopping off at the Bank for the letter on route, arrived Suan Plu 11:15........There Luch break 12 - 13.00 my number was called at 13:20, I was out 6 mins later with my new stamp.

[WilliamIV]

Thanks for replying Bill. Ok, first of all I went to the bank to get a letter for immigration...

1)The point I was trying to make about your Bank Letter was that - it is constantly emphasised here that the Balances in Letter and Passbook MUST agree - yet this did not seem a problem in itself in your case?

If your calculation came to more than 800k - do you think the Letter would have been acceptable?

2) So did the Officer accept and use the Exchange Rate given by your wife? It would be very interesting to know what rate was used for your calculation - can you remember - or even calculate it ?

Bill

[Ralf61]

So, basically the bank is telling immigration in the letter that I have 100,000 baht less than I really have. I hope you understand the situation. When I questioned it before I made my way to immigration they told me not to worry. I didn't worry , but after five hours wait at immigration I was told I am 13,000 baht short of the 800.000 baht required to renew my visa...

"They told me not to worry..." Yea, well: Seems, your problem started with believing a BANKER talking about IMMIGRATION stuff. I went to the Department of Business Development, got my Partnership LTD registered and aked for the address of the Labour Department to get a Work Permit on that. The registrar told me: "Registration is sufficient, no reason for a WP, don't worry..." Uh, forget it. Sure I knew better and went to Labour Department. At LD I got my WP, and they told me to go to Immigration and get a 1-year-stamp: "It's easy, don't worry..." Uh, forget it. Sure I knew better, and I do not qualify for a 1-year-stamp in the moment, enjoying those 90-days visa runs instead. Thai people like to talk a lot about things, that are over their heads, especially, when they are on the other side of a desk or counter. I always say thanks for the interesting information, and give a smile back , and then I make sure to now better. Never tell those officers/clerks/tenners, it would be better to shut up about things they have no idea about, let alone knowledge (would be very unwise and counterproductive on your next visit), just make sure you kow better....

[mahtin]

My sympathies, Paul. What a hel_l of a day that must have been.

Thank you for sharing. It helps others like me, who will be jumping through the same hoops this time next year.

Hope it goes smoothly next week.

[dragonfly94]

In the the topic about the airport office closing a member wrote that they told him he could go to to Samut Prakan...

I went there last year, outside there is a sign down on the coner in Englsih saying visa extensions. The lady I say was a total bitch who first claimed my non imm o visa had ran out (it had not) then she went throught everything seeming to find a fault. I was quite polite and remained so when after asking her a question she replied in Thai to my wife she did not know how she could stay with anyone like me too stupid to understand the visa regs (do they half the time?) Anyway not being able to find another excuse she told me I had gone to early and that anyway they did not really do extensions there (despite having the forms and the big sign) She told me to go into the Bangkok office even though we lived in Samut Prakan. We left in disgust she was the rudest least helpful official I have ever met, those in Bangkok are very good, samut prakan is a disgrace

[Tod Daniels]

FWIW; I have 'held hands' with and walked more people thru their retirement visa here than I even care to count. Every one of them went to the infamous building known as "Cluster-<deleted> on Soi Suan Plu".

While I am loathe to defend the diminutive, (n)ever smiling, yet very smartly attired worker bees there, they are really way overworked given the sheer volume of foreign social misfits and assorted flotsam jetsam they deal with on a daily basis. The stupidity exuded by some of the foreigners in attendance on any given day fills the air. Everyone wants to be treated as a "special case", few understand the rules, and fewer still have the right forms filled out, photos, or half their required documents. It is enough to make the mind wobble. It is also the primary reason the lines move SO slowly.

With that being said; in all the time I've shepherded people thru the process, I've had 3 people denied. All of them had income verification letters from their embassy. Specifically their denials were because; at the time they applied the exchange rate of their currency had fallen below the 800,000 baht minimum requirement. Two were able to show sufficient funds in a thai account to offset the shortfall in exchange rates and we were able to secure their retirement visas. One was unable to get his visa and has since reverted to the tourist visa, visa extensions, and visa exempt route to sustain his meager existence here.

I truly think your bank was the one who screwed you on this; especially as they withheld 100K from your bank balance against a 50K limit on a credit card you had with them. Then again it pays to read the very fine print on those forms and they could have well been within the letter of the contract they had with you concerning the credit card.

I am sorry for your predicament, but glad you're getting it sorted out and have the time to do it before your current visa expires.

REMEMBER GO EARLY: Most times I arrive at Suan Plu at 7:45, have breakfast, and read the paper. When they open the door to get a queue number from the information desk I have always received a low, low number. We're usually out before 10:30.

I would never ever go there after 9:30AM and think you'll get out before 3 or 4PM, especially when visiting Room 101.

[jfchandler]

The part about the Thai bank where the OP has his bank funds, and a Thai credit card I presume, deducting double the amount of his credit card limit from his bank account balance is STRANGE...

I can understand deducting from the bank account balance whatever amount might be outstanding on the credit card. But I've never heard of a bank deducting double the amount of the card's unused credit limit, even if there is no outstanding balance on the card.

Of course, if the bank had not done that, the OP would not have been short of the required funds at Immigration. What Thai bank was the culprit in this???

[slim]

Although it may seem petty to decline an extension of stay visa for such a relatively small sum the problem is rules are rules.

787,000 baht is not 800,000. 799,000 is not 800,000 baht. 687,000 baht is not 800,000 baht.

If you are travelling at 31 m.p.h in a 30 m.p.h limit - your are speeding.

If you've got 81 milligrams of alcohol in your blood stream and the limit is 80 per 100 millitres - you are over the limit.

We make not like the rules but the people who enforce them - do just that. Enforce them. They don't make them and they can't change them.

I'd use this experience as a lesson learnt Paul.

[chinnk]

Cheers, thanks for your support. I was beginning to think that it was just me "moaning about nothing." My feelings yesterday were one of "These people don't want you here", rightly or wrongly. I will be interested to hear your comments.

I think if you are still desirable, in some way, you are welcome to stay or live here. I guess this is the same as what other countries would do, but they may have different methods and criteria. Some people may discriminate one to another, but in general, most Thai people do not. I guess this is also similar to many other countries. Having been living in UK and AU, I do feel sometime that I was treated differently by some local people. However, another time, I was also respected by another.

I am, on the other hand, trying to get the right to work and live in one of the western countries. Likewise, I have to prove myself to the immigration that I am capable and my living there could benefit the country. Similarly, I have to abide by all their rules to process the application. I also felt frustrated about proving documents gain and again to meet their requirement. But, I just have to accept as this is their rule here.

Chinn