Swiss Embassy Not Issuing Income Confirmations Anymore ...

[rainman]

A little bit of background. Last year I did my annual visa extension in Thailand through my marriage to my Thai wife, based on the monthly income option (before the 400k was re-introduced again). The Thai Immigration obviously wanted an 'income confirmation' letter issues from the overseas company where I get the money from every month. Not a problem last year, the company issued the letter, I had it translated, and the Swiss Embassy confirmed the translation. They wouldn't issue an income certificate, but only confirm the translation. That was fine for Thai Immigration.

I'm going to do my extension based on 400k in the bank this year, but I just wanted to have a backup with the monthly overseas income option, since the 400k have been in the bank exactly 2 months on the day my visa expires (because my credit card company withdrew the monthly amount from the wrong account, it dropped below 400k for 2 days).

Anyways, now I just spoke to the Swiss Embassy again. They said they no longer issue income certifications anymore, neither for pensions (I already knew that) and neither for people getting their monthly income from outside Thailand.

So ...how exactly do we explain that to Immigration? They obviously want a letter from the Embassy certifying the income, or at least the Embassy certifying the translation. Their response to that was "Thai Immigration wants a lot of documents from us but we're not really required to issue them...". So basically, we don't care what they want.

How are people getting monthly income from overseas supposed to get their letter for Immigration now?

[Lite Beer]

I know you have had prblems before with them. Sounds a strange atitude. Presumably they charge a fee for these documents. It is not as though they are doing it for free.

[rainman]

I paid a fee last year already, I believe Baht 2,000. I'd pay Baht 10,000 if I got the document, that's not a problem. But apparently they're refusing to issue any income certificates (as they did last year), but now they're also refusing to confirm translations.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

A little bit of background. Last year I did my annual visa extension in Thailand through my marriage to my Thai wife, based on the monthly income option (before the 400k was re-introduced again). The Thai Immigration obviously wanted an 'income confirmation' letter issues from the overseas company where I get the money from every month. Not a problem last year, the company issued the letter, I had it translated, and the Swiss Embassy confirmed the translation. They wouldn't issue an income certificate, but only confirm the translation. That was fine for Thai Immigration.

I'm going to do my extension based on 400k in the bank this year, but I just wanted to have a backup with the monthly overseas income option, since the 400k have been in the bank exactly 2 months on the day my visa expires (because my credit card company withdrew the monthly amount from the wrong account, it dropped below 400k for 2 days).

Anyways, now I just spoke to the Swiss Embassy again. They said they no longer issue income certifications anymore, neither for pensions (I already knew that) and neither for people getting their monthly income from outside Thailand.

So ...how exactly do we explain that to Immigration? They obviously want a letter from the Embassy certifying the income, or at least the Embassy certifying the translation. Their response to that was "Thai Immigration wants a lot of documents from us but we're not really required to issue them...". So basically, we don't care what they want.

How are people getting monthly income from overseas supposed to get their letter for Immigration now?

OK, how about a work-around?

Try the letter from your "company" again, have it translated by one of the agencies there around Ploenchit, then see if you can get it "chopped" by the Min of Foreign Affairs office out on Chang Wattana, as is done for the "eligible for marriage" paper.

?? Who knows, might just work, with an official Thai government stamp on it.

Mac

[pete_r]

My first thought would be to have the letter translated in English by a licensed agency in Bangkok (check first with the Immigration office if they can accept that).

[MeetJohnDoe]

Does this mean all Swiss nationals (retirees too) have to renew visas based on money in the bank? No choice of using the monthly pension/income instead? That really sucks!

Could other qualified translation agencies be used...or can the Thai Foreign Ministry certify the translation for you?

[rainman]

I always have it translated by the same translation office in Ploenchit since 2 years, but I think they moved now since there was a fire there. I have their phone number, though. Thai Immigration always accepted that and they're also on the Embassy's list of accepted translation agencies.

So far I have just called, but I guess I will go camp out at the Swiss Embassy next week until they issue it. They did it last year, even though they now claim it was against the law last year already.

If they won't issue it, I'll try the Foreign Ministry. Luckily I still have the 400k in the bank option and the 40k+ per month is just a backup since my 400k in the bank is a bit tight this year, not money-wise, but a bit tight with the 2 months being on the day my visa expires, so I wanted to have a backup method just in case.

I also tried to call Immigration office but obviously it's impossible to get through to them on the phone.

[rainman]

Does this mean all Swiss nationals (retirees too) have to renew visas based on money in the bank? No choice of using the monthly pension/income instead? That really sucks!

I don't know. The Thai Immigration wants a letter from the Embassy, but the Embassy is saying they don't issue such letters anymore. So ..? I have no idea. Even pensioners can't have their income certified at the Embassy anymore, from what she told me today. I wonder how that will work out for them? I know of at least a few that probably don't have 800k in the bank but receive enough with their monthly pension. Sure they can get a document from their government pension, but Thai Immigration won't accept it unless it's confirmed by the Embassy.

[Maestro]

Rainman, I believe you are asking the Swiss embassy or consulate an impossible thing if you ask them to certify your income.

I have not seen any so-called “embassy letter” certifying the income but from what I have read in this forum no embassy or consulate actually certifies the income.

The US consulates in Thailand are unique in that they sign a statement at the bottom of an affidavit, which the applicant for extension of stay fills out and signs, to the effect that the applicant has sworn before a consular official that the information in the affidavit is correct. The affidavit used by the US consulate in Bangkok is here, the one used by the US conslulate in Chiang Mai here, for reference.

The consulates of most other countries, I understand, certify the authenticity of the applicant's signature on an affidavit written – or a printed form filled out – by the applicant. I believe that also the Swiss consulate offers the service of certifying the authenticity of your signature on a document, but not the correctness of the content of the document, for a fee with a nice consular stamp.

It would be nice if some people who got such “embassy letter” regarding their foreign-earned income could scan and post the letter with certification they got, obliterating personal and confidential information in the document as necessary. Let’s exclude letters from the US consulate, as they are particular, but have letters from the consulates of any other country.

--

Maestro

[rainman]

First of all, I will post mine as soon as I actually get it. I will give it a try probably tomorrow to have them issue something. I didn't ask them to issue an income certificate, but only "certify the translation", which is what they did last year, but they are so far refusing to do this year. I guess I could change the wording a bit and ask them to "certify my signature" on a document instead.

What I have is a letter from my company (where I'm a 50% shareholder), signed by the CFO of the company and confirming my monthly income. So the Embassy can't really verify the CFO's signature, since it's not mine. What I could do maybe is write a letter in addition to the company letter and have them certify that?

Last year they would just ask me to translate it to Thai and then certify the translation, but this year they clearly stated that they don't certify translations anymore.

[Maestro]

The list of fees published by the Swiss embassy in Bangkok includes a fee for “Certification / Legalisation per document / signature” of THB 1,240, which confirms that they offer this service of authentication (certification, legalisation) of your signature.

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Maestro

[rainman]

Ha ..! Look at that. And the lady today basically told me it's not possible. Maybe she had a bad day, no idea.

Thank you so much, I will actually print that out and bring it to them so they can see what services they offer.

Merci vielmal

[Maestro]

The consular staff at the Swiss embassy seems to have a bad day quite often, from stories I hear.

In another topic on the subject of "embassy letter" from the Swiss embassy I suggested the following text for an affidavit but it can be any other text that you consider suitable.

Affidavit of Income

I, <name as shown in passport>, holder of Swiss passport number <number>, residing at <full address, same as used on application form for extension of stay>, hereby declare the following:

1. I have an average monthly income of <currency symbol> <amount> from <type of income, eg pension, employment outside Thailand, etc>

2. This affidavit is made by me for the purpose of submitting it to the competent Immigration Office in Thailand together with my application for extension of stay as required by Thai immigration rules and regulations.

<date>

<signature>

<printed name>

Type your affidavit on a blank sheet of paper, without letterhead, and sign it only in the presence of the consular official, so that he can see that it is you, who identified yourself as being you, who signs the document.

It the low-level clerks give you grief, ask to speak to His Excellency the Consul himself.

When you go to the immigration office with this "embassy letter", bring the supporting documents you have for your foreign-earned income along but show them only if the immigration officer asks for them (keep copies of all documents for yourself).

I'll be interest to hear if you succeed with this, so please post the result here in this topic when it's all done.

Buona fortuna (good luck)!

--

Maestro

[theoldgit]

I have not seen any so-called "embassy letter" certifying the income but from what I have read in this forum no embassy or consulate actually certifies the income.

The consulates of most other countries, I understand, certify the authenticity of the applicant's signature on an affidavit written – or a printed form filled out – by the applicant. I believe that also the Swiss consulate offers the service of certifying the authenticity of your signature on a document, but not the correctness of the content of the document, for a fee with a nice consular stamp.

It would be nice if some people who got such "embassy letter" regarding their foreign-earned income could scan and post the letter with certification they got, obliterating personal and confidential information in the document as necessary.

I certainly got a letter from the British Embassy last year confirming the income from my pension, it said something like I had submitted evidence of my annual pension of £xx,xxx. To do this I had to show them an original letter from my pension company, then they gave me the letter the following day. The letter from the embassy cost me about 2,800 Baht, as I recall, for the life of me I don't know why the Thai authorities will not take the pension statement as proof.

Didn't keep a copy, so I cannot scan it, but will so next month when I repeat the exercise.

[antony77]

A little bit of background. Last year I did my annual visa extension in Thailand through my marriage to my Thai wife, based on the monthly income option (before the 400k was re-introduced again). The Thai Immigration obviously wanted an 'income confirmation' letter issues from the overseas company where I get the money from every month. Not a problem last year, the company issued the letter, I had it translated, and the Swiss Embassy confirmed the translation. They wouldn't issue an income certificate, but only confirm the translation. That was fine for Thai Immigration.

I'm going to do my extension based on 400k in the bank this year, but I just wanted to have a backup with the monthly overseas income option, since the 400k have been in the bank exactly 2 months on the day my visa expires (because my credit card company withdrew the monthly amount from the wrong account, it dropped below 400k for 2 days).

Anyways, now I just spoke to the Swiss Embassy again. They said they no longer issue income certifications anymore, neither for pensions (I already knew that) and neither for people getting their monthly income from outside Thailand.

So ...how exactly do we explain that to Immigration? They obviously want a letter from the Embassy certifying the income, or at least the Embassy certifying the translation. Their response to that was "Thai Immigration wants a lot of documents from us but we're not really required to issue them...". So basically, we don't care what they want.

How are people getting monthly income from overseas supposed to get their letter for Immigration now?

You normally only have to get a letter from the embassy one time and you can use this for future extensions. Sometimes they don't even ask for it. It depends on the immigration officer. One time they said I must have money in my account as well as my 40k monthly income

[enigma]

First of all, I will post mine as soon as I actually get it. I will give it a try probably tomorrow to have them issue something. I didn't ask them to issue an income certificate, but only "certify the translation", which is what they did last year, but they are so far refusing to do this year. I guess I could change the wording a bit and ask them to "certify my signature" on a document instead.

What I have is a letter from my company (where I'm a 50% shareholder), signed by the CFO of the company and confirming my monthly income. So the Embassy can't really verify the CFO's signature, since it's not mine. What I could do maybe is write a letter in addition to the company letter and have them certify that?

Last year they would just ask me to translate it to Thai and then certify the translation, but this year they clearly stated that they don't certify translations anymore.

Rainman, I'm on my first Retirement extension so I don't have a lot of experience, but my income comes from a private company too (I'm a 50% shareholder). Acting on advice from another expat, I obtained a letter from the company solicitor to state my income.

As it turned out, no one asked for the letter. The Australian Embassy certified my Statutory Declaration (similar to an affidavit) in which I stated my income, Thai Immigration (Jomtiem) asked for the Statutory Declaration plus a balance of account statement from my Thai bank only.

However, when I go to renew my Retirement extension, I will get a new letter from the company lawyer, just in case! You may wish to do that too, rather than a letter from the company.

[PaulDee]

You normally only have to get a letter from the embassy one time and you can use this for future extensions. Sometimes they don't even ask for it. It depends on the immigration officer. One time they said I must have money in my account as well as my 40k monthly income

That had been the policy for several years but it was changed last year. The current policy requires that a new letter from your embassy be obtained and submitted annually.

[Lite Beer]

You normally only have to get a letter from the embassy one time and you can use this for future extensions. Sometimes they don't even ask for it. It depends on the immigration officer. One time they said I must have money in my account as well as my 40k monthly income

That had been the policy for several years but it was changed last year. The current policy requires that a new letter from your embassy be obtained and submitted annually.

Yes. A new letter every year.

[johnefallis]

I have not seen any so-called "embassy letter" certifying the income but from what I have read in this forum no embassy or consulate actually certifies the income.

The consulates of most other countries, I understand, certify the authenticity of the applicant's signature on an affidavit written – or a printed form filled out – by the applicant. I believe that also the Swiss consulate offers the service of certifying the authenticity of your signature on a document, but not the correctness of the content of the document, for a fee with a nice consular stamp.

It would be nice if some people who got such "embassy letter" regarding their foreign-earned income could scan and post the letter with certification they got, obliterating personal and confidential information in the document as necessary.

I certainly got a letter from the British Embassy last year confirming the income from my pension, it said something like I had submitted evidence of my annual pension of £xx,xxx. To do this I had to show them an original letter from my pension company, then they gave me the letter the following day. The letter from the embassy cost me about 2,800 Baht, as I recall, for the life of me I don't know why the Thai authorities will not take the pension statement as proof.

Didn't keep a copy, so I cannot scan it, but will so next month when I repeat the exercise.

At 2800 baht per letter I can figure that this is a pretty good racket. I bet they don't pay the immigration guys more than 200-300 baht of it for requiring you to have the letter though!

[theoldgit]

At 2800 baht per letter I can figure that this is a pretty good racket. I bet they don't pay the immigration guys more than 200-300 baht of it for requiring you to have the letter though!

Whilst I think the fee is a bit high, it's my choice to pay it rather than tie up 800,000 in a Thai bank, but I certainly don't think it's a racket and I certainly wouldn't suggest that they pay Thai Immigration a commission. The fee for issuing letters like this is set centrally by the FCO and I don't suppose for one minute they factor in what you are suggesting.

[thedi]

Last year the Swiss embassy send all BKK-registered Swiss nationals in Thailand a letter which included new 'rules' for issuing income certificates by the embassy.

Unluckily I did not keep this letter because I was not interested. But I remember that the 'rules' where rather stiff: they required original documents from AHV in Geneva and/or pensions not older than - if I remember right - 30? days. I thought then to myself: "luckily I will never need this kind of 'service', because in combination with the Thai postal 'service', this may turn out to be impossible".

I would recommend the original poster to try the 'statutory declaration' as mentioned above. If this does not work: write directly to Bern: 'Sehr geehrte Frau Bundesrat...' Such a letter helped me 15 years ago, when I had a dispute with the same embassy. The letter should be correct and exact. Don't rave but state facts. Be short and concise. Don't expect an answer from Madame Bundesrat herself, but you will get an answer and you can be quite sure of speedy actions behind the scenes - if your complain is justified. Especially with our current foreign minister Madame Calmy-Rey whos ideas about service public are in some respects contrary to the 'Excellencies' ideas of their job

Regards

Thedi

[rainman]

Good news! So far so good. The Swiss Embassy refused to certify my translation of my company's letter this year, but they DID certify my signature on the Affidavit of Income kindly provided above by Maestro. Since this apparently is what other Embassies like the US and British one issue, it should be accepted by Thai Immigration ...should....

I will bring the Affidavit together with my company's letter AND in addition the 400k in the bank for exactly 2 months, so Immigration can choose what they like.

[Maestro]

...The Swiss Embassy refused to certify my translation of my company's letter this year, but they DID certify my signature on the Affidavit of Income kindly provided above by Maestro...

The consular section of the Swiss embassy would equally happily certify the signature of the translator of the company’s letter. That’s what people usually mean when they talk about a certified translation of a birth certificate or other document: the translator certifies with his signature and a text something like “Certified true and correct translation”, usually stamped, that the translation is correct; the consulate certifies that the translator’s signature is correct.

I used to have a template on my computer for the translator’s stamp, to print in red in a bottom corner of the translated page or on the reverse side.

--

Maestro

[rainman]

Unfortunately they explicitly refused to certify my translation, no matter if it was translated by myself or by the translation office.

[lounger]

Luckily I still have the 400k in the bank option and the 40k+ per month is just a backup since my 400k in the bank is a bit tight this year, not money-wise, but a bit tight with the 2 months being on the day my visa expires, so I wanted to have a backup method just in case.

==========

By the time you have chased round the immigration offices your 400 will have been in the bank for the required 3 months.

good luck

[Maestro]

Unfortunately they explicitly refused to certify my translation, no matter if it was translated by myself or by the translation office.

Not certify the translation, but certify your signature, ie certify that it was you, who identified yourself, who signed, just like they certified the signature on your affidavit.

But never mind, the chance that immigration will want to see the supporting document for the income declared in the affidavit is minimal, I’d say 0.1%. Use your colour printer to print a red stamp on your translation of the company’s income confirmation with the statement that it is a true and correct translation and sign that statement yourself, or you can even write the statement by hand (just looks more official if it looks like a stamp), then bring it along to immigration without consular certification of signature, just in case they want to see it.

--

Maestro

[rainman]

Actually ...I already got a translation of the company's income letter from a recognized translation office. They certified the translation as correct a true. A silly related question ...but what time in the morning does Immigration in Suan Phlu open? I normally go around 10am and it's always horribly crowded and keeps me there until 4pm or so every time (5-6 hours). I have a feeling if I go at 7am (or whenever it opens), it won't be so crowded?

[rainman]

By the time you have chased round the immigration offices your 400 will have been in the bank for the required 3 months.

good luck

By the time Thailand's Immigration laws are straight forward, my 400k will have turned into 20 million Baht on 0.5% annual interest. Now do the math. I won't.

[geovalin]

did you get your visa?

[Phil Conners]

Luckily I still have the 400k in the bank option and the 40k+ per month is just a backup since my 400k in the bank is a bit tight this year, not money-wise, but a bit tight with the 2 months being on the day my visa expires, so I wanted to have a backup method just in case.

==========

By the time you have chased round the immigration offices your 400 will have been in the bank for the required 3 months.

good luck

I though they changed the rule last year so 400K in the bank was only a grand fathered option, i.e. once you've used the 40K/month option you can't go back.

Was that changed again?